Denied tourist visa at Vientiane - new rule 1x per year

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

How right you are, there are so many deluded people who think they are being fairly treated with all this hoop jumping. If there was less and less tourists and retirees coming from western countries and was interfering with certain income streams, things would change very quickly.

Thinking Thai has eye on China and other joint with few folk India. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by DrJack54

[spornb]

For whats its worth been here ten yrs on various visas, these days on marriage extensions NEVER HAD A PROBLEM, always treated well by immigration, we also dress respectfully.

 

Have no concerns about the future, try to stay informed on rule changes

[Zikomat]

14 hours ago, BestB said:

But Thailand is not Vietnam, why bother comparing apples to oranges?

 

If Vietnam is your choice, you simple go there without whining why Thailand this or that.

 

Thailand is this or that because it is what it is.

Ok, in Thailand they could ask 1000 usd for a Visa per year. What is important here - 90%+ of western long stayers are profitable for the Thai economy. There is no doubt about that. And still the government tries everything they can to make these people move to Laos, Vietnam etc. Isn't that kinda stupid policy?

Edited June 28, 2019 by Zikomat

[Zikomat]

9 minutes ago, spornb said:

For whats its worth been here ten yrs on various visas, these days on marriage extensions NEVER HAD A PROBLEM, always treated well by immigration, we also dress respectfully.

 

Have no concerns about the future, try to stay informed on rule changes

I would not be so optimistic. Things are getting worse every day in the last 5 years. 

[Scouse123]

15 hours ago, BestB said:

Have you just come out of some cave?

 

Western countries do not give passports to Thai citizens and its hell to go through for Thai passport to get visa into any Western country,not to mention Thai passport requires visa to all western countries, while western countries passport holders get free 30 days visa exempt without having to go through any applications and even tourist visa applications are nothing in comparison to pages of paperwork needed for a thai to obtain visa abroad

 

 

Yes, we know you are right in what you post.

 

BUT, The reason countries such as the U.K. are like this is because once a Thai has stepped foot in the U.K. there are all kinds of stories, excuses and delays they can bring to the table to avoid going back to Thailand, and I have seen them do this! London and Manchester has a ridiculous amount of Thais living and working, especially in ' illegal massage parlors ' and restaurants, nail salons, and other occupations where they try to stay under the radar, just like the Vietnamese.

 

I took my Thai partner,  ( we are together 20 plus years, she very much enjoys the UK to visit, but loves Isaarn and family more ) to the UK recently and we bumped into a couple of Thais in a local bar in my town. After less than ten minutes, one of them had informed us that she came over after marrying a British guy, it didn't work out, they have two kids and divorced.She then went on to tell us what a great government we had giving her housing, furniture, and money. She also had a full ' back tattoo ' which was a dead giveaway for me at the time. Put it this way, I knew her previous occupation wouldn't have been with Krung Thai bank!!

 

Shortly after, her and her friend left our company as two Indian guys arrived in the bar, who they had obviously made arrangements to meet. I am not saying in any way that this is typical behaviour, I am saying these are the burdens on the UK state when things don't work out, and maybe why they are so cautious about tourist visas with certain nationalities, and it can be applied to many nationalities, but here we are talking about Thais.

 

Back to the matter in hand which is Thailand. a Westerner gets precisely ' jack all ' in Thailand if in difficulties.He/She has no access to public funds, hospitals, housing, etc, zip, zero, Nada, nothing. It is ' fine and dandy ' when the Westerner is splashing the cash buying cars, houses that he can't own, and helping the economy of Thailand in many ways as many have, over a long period of time. I dare say foreigners have helped many families in Isaarn a damn sight more than successive governments have.

 

So, in summary, a Thai that manages to get to Europe or the U.K. immediately has access to far more than a European has in Thailand. Furthermore, the Thai visa for UK allows an immediate stay of six months, free access to urgent healthcare, no 90 reports, TM30, etc and no requirement to carry passports etc,.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, darrendsd said:

That doesn't prove that they "don't want us" it just proves that Immigration want people here who can afford to be here and who can prove where they live here

 

The lure in the past for people coming to or living in Thailand has been the lax rules however times move on but it seems some people can't understand that and automatically shout they don't want us here etc etc without looking at the real picture

 

If you can afford to stay here and follow the rules they set they want you here - if you can't they don't

 

I actually agree with their rules (even though it does affect me as well) and wish that countries like the UK would adopt the same attitude

In other words, you are saying that they don't want you here, they only want your money. Very well said indeed.

[trigpoint]

told by who?

Various travel agents in PP, been using CTT on riverside for 8 years, never a problem, a big no from them last week.

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Zikomat]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Income tax.. 

Tax on the income fully created outside of Thailand? Anyway, in most of the cases, this tax would comprise only a small fraction of the long-stayer's expenses. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Zikomat

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, BestB said:

Their thinking is pretty simple. If you are genuine tourist you can only realistically travel for 2-3 months, anything over that and its highly unlikely you are a tourist but more likely doing some work.

 

If you are rich enough to stay in the country without working, then Elite is what they want you to buy.

 

If they made Elite possible to be paid in yearly installment, i think a lot more "tourists" would be getting it

This was a good post until the last paragraph. The Elite Visa is just for the rich who can afford to throw money away.

[GeorgeCross]

21 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

Ok, in Thailand they could ask 1000 usd for a Visa per year. What is important here - 90%+ of western long stayers are profitable for the Thai economy. There is no doubt about that. And still the government tries everything they can to make these people move to Laos, Vietnam etc. Isn't that kinda stupid policy?

 

i think the issue is that although generally westerners are good for tourism the immigration rules are not written solely FOR westerners. they have to be written in a way that is (for the most part) not discriminatory and the problem is thailand attracts a lot of bad apples. our problems on the whole are small compared to say the issues with other countries tourists/immigrants here. from camps of indians undocumented in bangkok to neighboring countries illegally working to chinese/korean gambling operations to traffickers to russian mafia to card scamming gangs and to any of a 100 other organised criminal enterprises, thailand has been seen as a soft touch for quite a few decades.

 

it seems to me that the clampdowns over the last few years have been more in response to this and international pressure to reign it in than it is directly aimed at the western market.

 

thailand wants to project that they are developing, on top of things and won't stand for it any longer and that includes visa abuse from us as well.

 

we're just unfortunately getting wrapped up and affected by the changes as well and myopically see this all as "they hate us" but i don't think that is the case, we're just collateral damage.

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Zikomat]

2 hours ago, watso63 said:

I wonder if the aim is for tourists to return to their home country and apply there. As the OP says, the Elite Visa is an option so the door hasn't been firmly closed.

The problem with Elite visa is that it is for a minimum period of 5 years. One must be quite a rich person to pay 500 k for one or two year stay in Thailand. And yes, if one firmly plans to stay in Thailand for a really long time (like 5 years and more) - Elite visa is the way to go.

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Do any countries give unrestricted visas which allow 1-2 years stay? Thailand is easier than some, as you can get an Elite visa, if you can afford it. 

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk
 

"if you can afford it." You mean if a person is that rich and can afford the throw their money away.

[smedly]

if Thailand (a country that relies heavily on tourism) wants to restrict tourists to one visit a year then up to them no matter the stupidity - but those complaining (under 50) that stay here long term doing visa runs need to explain why and how they are able, right now I personally know 5 people that fit this profile and are working here illegally - up to them not my business but it is what it is

[Zikomat]

17 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

i think the issue is that although generally westerners are good for tourism the immigration rules are not written solely FOR westerners. they have to be written in a way that is (for the most part) not discriminatory and the problem is thailand attracts a lot of bad apples. our problems on the whole are small compared to say the issues with other countries tourists/immigrants here. from camps of indians undocumented in bangkok to neighboring countries illegally working to chinese/korean gambling operations to traffickers to russian mafia to card scamming gangs and to any of a 100 other organised criminal enterprises, thailand has been seen as a soft touch for quite a few decades.

 

it seems to me that the clampdowns over the last few years have been more in response to this and international pressure to reign it in than it is directly aimed at the western market.

 

thailand wants to project that they are on top of things and won't stand for it any longer and that includes visa abuse from us as well.

 

we're just unfortunately getting wrapped up and affected by the changes as well and myopically see this all as "they hate us" but i don't think that is the case.

As I see it - an easy solution would be introducing 1 year tourist visa for , let's say, USD1200-1500. Will many cheap labor workers come work here on this condition? Not sure. And when it comes to the big money criminals- I am quite sure they easily solve their visa problems one way or another. The way it is now - the biggest group oppressed by the Visa rules tightening are those middle income long-stayers working on the internet and bringing billions of baht to the Thai economy every year. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Zikomat

[PingRoundTheWorld]

48 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

If there was less and less tourists and retirees coming from western countries and was interfering with certain income streams, things would change very quickly.

What do you mean IF? There HAVE been less and less western tourists due to many reasons - cost and the high baht being number one. In recent years the rise in Chinese tourists "covered up" for the reduction in westerners, but that already stopped and Chinese numbers are way down over the past 12 months, and likely will keep going down as they are not typically return visitors. The fact that even the TAT is finally admitting tourism is down (big change from their usual "everything is great!" propaganda) says they're starting to get worried.

[fforest1]

17 hours ago, darrendsd said:

That doesn't prove that they "don't want us" it just proves that Immigration want people here who can afford to be here and who can prove where they live here

 

The lure in the past for people coming to or living in Thailand has been the lax rules however times move on but it seems some people can't understand that and automatically shout they don't want us here etc etc without looking at the real picture

 

If you can afford to stay here and follow the rules they set they want you here - if you can't they don't

 

I actually agree with their rules (even though it does affect me as well) and wish that countries like the UK would adopt the same attitude

I really feel offended by these kind of brain out to lunch posts...

 

Hey if you have not noticed Thailand gives expats no benefits or privileges or rights no matter how long you have been here...Wife/Kids/Job.....Zilch....

 

They have no right at all to tighten visas...None what so ever.....Because a easy visa was the only benefit they ever offered,take that away and they offer NOTHING.....get it?

Edited June 28, 2019 by fforest1

[Matzzon]

20 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"if you can afford it." You mean if a person is that rich and can afford the throw their money away.

My opinion is that you´re repeating that some things are only for rich people, without having any clue about what you are referring to as rich.

 

Here there is a talk about staying in Thailand, in almost the same, or the same, way as living in Thailand. There is first a reason for why there are different names on visas. The name tourist visa, does mean that you visit the country as a tourist, not that you are living there. There is not many countries in the world that would allow non citizens to continuously live in the country with tourist visas back to back on an almost permanent basis. Thoose are undisputable facts.

 

Now over to the funny stuff. Disregarding if it regards a person that choose to live on a permanent basis on a tourist visa or an Elite Visa as well as retirement and marriage extension the value of and the safety that the economics represent is utlimately the same. That means in fact that having or investing 500K baht, could not EVER be considered beeing rich. As you are putting yourself in the risk of leaving the comfort of your native and home country, you will at least need to have a minimum of the double amount in frre capital to be able to handle yourself in a minimalistic way in a foreign country to have the safety that is needed if something happens. Also that is undisputable facts, for all persons that know how to take care of themselfs in a logical and reasonable well planned way.way.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Matzzon

[NoshowJones]

10 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

What do you mean IF? There HAVE been less and less western tourists due to many reasons - cost and the high baht being number one. In recent years the rise in Chinese tourists "covered up" for the reduction in westerners, but that already stopped and Chinese numbers are way down over the past 12 months, and likely will keep going down as they are not typically return visitors. The fact that even the TAT is finally admitting tourism is down (big change from their usual "everything is great!" propaganda) says they're starting to get worried.

Yes, I agree with you, what I am saying is with the exchange rate being so high, if cannot be interfering with certain income streams, otherwise something would be done about it.

[Enoon]

21 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Yes, but it fits a pattern, a trend dating back several years. The past tends to predict the future. I am confident there will be more unexpected events very similar to this.

 

I expected a limit on the number of SETVs that could be obtained by a tourist, unless they were obtained in the tourists own country.

 

ie: You could get one from Laos, one from Vietnam, but the next would have to be obtained "back home".

 

Best would then be a reset and another 2 (obtained in foreign countries) before going home.

 

Worst would be all subsequent visas for the year would have to be done......back home.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Enoon

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, darrendsd said:

It doesn't what I or others agree with - if Immigration decide that's what is required then that's what is required

 

To many people think that Immigration should bend over for them - that's not how it works

 

I am in no way a Thai apologist however unlike most I do understand that I am living in a foreign country and part of that requires following whatever rules Immigration decide is required to stay here

 

We all have to do that - most spend hours on here moaning about it then do whatever they need to do to satisfy the requirements - others don't moan about it and just get on with what needs to be done

People have the right to say what they think is fair and what is unfair no matter what country they are living in, and I say the Thai government is mostly unfair to westerners who came here to retire.

90 day reporting and the TM 30 nonsense is typical of that.

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

This was a good post until the last paragraph. The Elite Visa is just for the rich who can afford to throw money away.

Rich or not (and rich folk didn't get that way by squandering their money). the Elite Visa was a rip off from the day it was introduced. It's little more than a repackaging of what had always been available at cheap cost and without any objections from immigration into a massively expensive tourist visa. The longer term guarantees of the Elite used to be a given on other classes of visa anyway - no one used to live in fear of how they were going to obtain their next tourist visa or extension. Given the current hostility and suspicion towards foreigners here with the 24 hour reporting rules and fines etc, being an Elite visa holder in 2019 is actually a less privileged position than being a back to back tourist visa holder was a few short years ago. 

[Sujo]

A little off topic but a question.

 

I live in malaysia but travel every 2 months to Thailand for around a week at a time. Visa exempt on arrival. Im australian.

 

Been doing this for a few years. Just wondering if I may now get some hassles due to the amount of visits I make.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

"if you can afford it." You mean if a person is that rich and can afford the throw their money away.

Throwing money away suggests getting absolutely nothing for it. Five years of living here without other requirements, is what you are buying.

 

Somewhat similar to paying an agent.

Edited June 28, 2019 by jacko45k

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Throwing money away suggests getting absolutely nothing for it. Five years of living here without other requirements, is what you are buying.

But you still have to jump through the hoops re: TM-30 and 90-day reporting, plus they could revoke or change your visa whenever they like. Is it really worth it?

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Five years of living here without other requirements, is what you are buying.

With all the requirements Immigration requires, such as 90 day reports, TM30, and whatever else may pop up in the future.

[aqua4]

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

I really feel offended by these kind of brain out to lunch posts...

 

Hey if you have not noticed Thailand gives expats no benefits or privileges or rights no matter how long you have been here...Wife/Kids/Job.....Zilch....

 

They have no right at all to tighten visas...None what so ever.....Because a easy visa was the only benefit they ever offered,take that away and they offer NOTHING.....get it?

 

Cheers for that! I dislike many of the cuckolds on this forum. You summed it up very well. 

 

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

With all the requirements Immigration requires, such as 90 day reports, TM30, and whatever else may pop up in the future.

90 day reports, 2 minutes at the laptop. Never did a TM30 for myself in my life.... over a decade here now. 

[lkv]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

90 day reports, 2 minutes at the laptop. Never did a TM30 for myself in my life.... over a decade here now. 

Well, I guess you should start doing it, as I am sure you are aware it's been a law in Thailand for decades, and you don't want to be a lawbreaker, Elite or not.????

 

Also, you risk being fined 5,000 baht every time you exit your house. To put it in perspective.

Edited June 28, 2019 by lkv

[NoshowJones]

19 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Rich or not (and rich folk didn't get that way by squandering their money). the Elite Visa was a rip off from the day it was introduced. It's little more than a repackaging of what had always been available at cheap cost and without any objections from immigration into a massively expensive tourist visa. The longer term guarantees of the Elite used to be a given on other classes of visa anyway - no one used to live in fear of how they were going to obtain their next tourist visa or extension. Given the current hostility and suspicion towards foreigners here with the 24 hour reporting rules and fines etc, being an Elite visa holder in 2019 is actually a less privileged position than being a back to back tourist visa holder was a few short years ago. 

"Rich or not (and rich folk didn't get that way by squandering their money)." Your right, most of them got that way on the backs of the working class.

I have to say though, your post certainly makes good sense.

[jacko45k]

Just now, lkv said:

Well, I guess you should start doing it, as I am sure you are aware it's been a law in Thailand for decades, and you don't want to be a lawbreaker, Elite or not.????

Actually not. I will do a TM30 when I am required to. Didn't seem to be a problem from 1979 to 2009!