Tougher immigration rules sees large number of Nordic expats leave Thailand

[webfact]

Nordic people moving out of Thailand

by Gregers Møller 

 

 

The number of Nordic businesspeople in Thailand and the number of Nordic people on retirement visa or visa linked to their Thai family have been declining during the first five months of this year. This is the first decline in 12 years. If the trend continues, there will only be 861 Nordic people on a business visa left in Thailand by the end of the year.

 

In 2018, 435 Nordic businesspeople renewed their business visa during the first five month of that year. This year, only 395 businesspeople renewed their visa. While some new businesspeople may have moved in, more must have decided to move out, leaving a net decline in Nordic businesspeople in Thailand of 40 people or 10 percent.

 

The downward trend is stronger than the total for all foreign nationalities in Thailand, where the decline in business visa renewals went down 2 percent during this period to a total of 5536 renewals.

 

Nordic people on retirement visa or visa related to their Thai family also declined. Last year, 3837 Nordic people renewed their O-visa during these first five months of the year. This year during the same five months, only 3788 people renewed their O-visa. The net decline was 49 people.

 

The category “others”, which includes students on E-visa declined 89 people from 1174 last year to 1085 this year. A decline of 7.5 percent.

 

Even renewal of tourist visas went down with 65 renewals to 11,752 renewals.

 

Danes had the largest decline

 

In the business communities, not all Nordic nationalities declined in equal proportions.

 

The number of Norwegian male business visa renewals went down from 40 to 39 men, while the businesswomen renewals went up from 5 in 2018 to 12 in 2019, giving a net increase of 7 business people renewing their visas.

 

The number of Finnish businessmen and business woment remained unchanged with 47 men and 13 women renewing their visas.

 

The number of Swedish male business visa renewals went down with 10 from 176 to 166 while the businesswomen renewals went down equally with 10 from 47 to 37, giving a total decline of 20 or 9 percent.

 

The largest decline was in the Danish nationality. The number of Danish male business visa renewals went down from 70 to 66, while Danish business women declined from 18 to 11. The net decline of 11 business visa renewals equals 12.5 percent.

 

The number of Icelandic businesspeople went up with 3 males and down with 1 female renewal to a total of 4 Icelandic people – doubling the 2 Icelandic people who renewed their visa during the first five months of last year.

 

Making the same comparison regarding people on O-visa also shows also an unequal pattern.

 

The Norwegians went down 21 O-visa renewals.

The Finns went down 11 O-visa renewals.

The Swedes went up with 37 O-visa renewals.

The Danes went down with 92 O-visa renewals – the largest drop of 14.5 percent in these categoeries.

The Icelandic people went up 3 renewals.

 

Full story: https://scandasia.com/nordic-people-moving-out-of-thailand/

 

-- ScandAsia 2019-07-01

[Denim]

A trend that seems likely to continue and not just Scandinavians.

 

 

[KiChakayan]

The numbers provided are statistically insignificant...Bad journalism.

[ChipButty]

Mind you dont bang your arse on the step on your way out

[lamyai3]

I expect we'll see more and more of these kinds of articles, along with a synopsis as to why this is happening. 

[LomSak27]

Just now, lamyai3 said:

I expect we'll see more and more of these kinds of articles, along with a synopsis as to why this is happening. 

 

It's going to be a long year. I might as well bite the bullet and get NFL Game Pass this year.

[PatOngo]

Well, at least ONE govt policy seems to be working! Today Nordics, next...…………?

[MRToMRT]

19 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

I expect we'll see more and more of these kinds of articles, along with a synopsis as to why this is happening. 

 I agree. Lets hope so because there's only one way it will change and that's through bad press making it an issue to image.

 

I also agree with KiChakayan, the numbers are inconsequential statistically. 

[Lucius verus]

There are plenty of Indians and Africans filling the void.

Nothing to see here!!

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

 I agree. Lets hope so because there's only one way it will change and that's through bad press making it an issue to image.

 

I also agree with KiChakayan, the numbers are inconsequential statistically. 

Correct, swings and round-abouts. 

[Thaiwrath]

24 minutes ago, Denim said:

A trend that seems likely to continue and not just Scandinavians.

 

 

I've lived in the same North Eastern city for 14 years, met a lot of people, both falang and Thai, and apart from 45 years spent in my place of birth, this is the only other place I have stayed long time.

I rent, what I think is, a great, relatively cheap, condominium, superb location, near a lovely lake I walk around each morning at 5.00am for exercise. Everywhere I need to go to is on a songteaw route that is very close, including the Government Hospital, which I use regularly for physio, and I have never had any complaints with the immigration office here. I live a far better quality of life here than I would back home, and have far more friends, and acquaintances, than I do back there.

If I were to move, I would have to start the whole process over again, meeting new people (who to trust, and who not to?), registering at a new hospital, and getting familiar with it, finding my way round a new environment, and, most importantly, finding accommodation as good as the one I am in now.

At aged late fifties, I cannot see the point of leaving and starting again somewhere else, in view of the above, and would only do so if I was forced to, and I would think most people here feel the same. So I , personally, cannot see a mass exodus of expats out, unless it is financially not possible to remain here.

[RJRS1301]

The numbers are not statistically significant and could be due to data collection and collation methods, or may be indicative if they continue for a further period of 12 month

What data collection was utilised, the method of analysis etc needs looking at, before seeing it as a "trend"

[SABloke]

Apart from the fact that most renewals could be occurring in the other 7 months of the year and thus the stats are pretty useless, I'm still trying to rack my head around a few things:

 

I'm assuming the article is talking about extensions of stay rather than visa renewals, so what is the "business visa''? Are they talking about extensions based on work or investment? Surely there would be more than 5536 in the entire country? Also, what are the "tourist visa" renewals? Do they mean people applying for 30 day extensions etc.? And how is that at all relevant in the trend of Nordic people leaving Thailand since the tourists applying for extensions this year could be totally different people to those that extended last year. ???? 

[Felt 35]

Most likely to do with the anti..... policies the latest years and not so much with the Immigration rules itself which not have changed so much.....and as far as I know Nordic people appreciate freedom with responsibility...

[bluesofa]

8 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

{snipped}

At aged late fifties, I cannot see the point of leaving and starting again somewhere else, in view of the above, and would only do so if I was forced to, and I would think most people here feel the same. So I , personally, cannot see a mass exodus of expats out, unless it is financially not possible to remain here.

Only last week I was talking to two guys at a social meeting.

One is going back to his home country after 15 years in order to set the wheels in motion to move back permanently with his Thai wife and kids, as a direct result of the tightened Thai visa regulations and not being able to get an embassy letter to support his visa extension any more.

 

The second guy is very well off and has been here for a similar length of time. He's on a Non OA visa, therefore required to have medical insurance to renew it. As he's over seventy, that's not possible. He also has a family here, but is now considering moving to the Philippines.

 

[ExpatPH]

Scandinavian retirees use to have a good pension above average, compared with many other countries. But nordic currencies has also taken a hit last years.

Denmarks currency has been strong for years, compared with their neighbours, so why so many Danes leaving?

 

This article came from a nordic online news site, without comparing to other nationalities, so not much of value to compare with.

 

It's a growing trend of leaving los, due to very poor exchange rate, increased cost of living in Thailand (last weeks news), immigration, denied at airport. Downward trend indeed. 

 

Not the same fun in los, as it used to be, and value for money is only a memory.

 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

The "land of the Free" is not very free any longer, feels like living in a police state now. I have left for Malaysia and only plan to come back during short periods to visit old friends (If I can get trough the hostile immigration officials at Bangkok airports)  

[bluesea]

If your not treated as an Equal ,Well you would have to think twice wouldn't you.

Maybe the Powers to be might just take some notice on why and who are leaving and not coming back to thailand.

[legend49]

48 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

 I agree. Lets hope so because there's only one way it will change and that's through bad press making it an issue to image.

 

I also agree with KiChakayan, the numbers are inconsequential statistically. 

So statisticians explain your opinions?

[Nowisee]

33 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

If I were to move, I would have to start the whole process over again, meeting new people (who 

At aged late fifties, I cannot see the point of leaving and starting again somewhere else, in view of the above, and would only do so if I was forced to, and I would think most people here feel the same. So I , personally, cannot see a mass exodus of expats out, unless it is financially not possible to remain here.

 

It sounds like you're trapped here emotionally and short changing yourself at your age.  
I certainly do not feel this way, so I will exclude myself from your "most people".
You and some others are myopic in your thinking people complaining and moving is because they can't afford it.   

[chainarong]

At the end of the day the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of Thailand's leader, if Prayut isn't going to intervene in the shambles that the immigration department has got itself into then that's a indication that Prayut himself supports the current arrangement, surely he would know by now that Thailand's wonderful tourist industry is being slowly destroyed by the immigration departments uncompromising  stupidness.

[Salerno]

2 minutes ago, chainarong said:

Thailand's wonderful tourist industry is being slowly destroyed by the immigration departments uncompromising  stupidness.

How? Other than a slight delay at Swampy recently what exactly affects tourists? They come, they have, fun they go home ... as has always been the case for tourists.

[ExpatPH]

41 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

So I , personally, cannot see a mass exodus of expats out, unless it is financially not possible to remain here.

 

Seriously?

Last half year many expats has already left. Already. And continuing. Expats community is getting smaller by the week.

 

So many who don't meet new criteria for extension of stay. Married guys consider leave, those who are too old to get required medical insurance, those who don't want to be forced to deposit 400/800k in a bank, those who had enough of lousy exchange rate ...

 

It's financially possible for many, but many didn't move to los, to be told when to jump, again and again.

 

Get out more, around the country, and you see the reality of 2019.

 

People are moving out to friendlier country.

 

[thaisabai]

51 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

I've lived in the same North Eastern city for 14 years, met a lot of people, both falang and Thai, and apart from 45 years spent in my place of birth, this is the only other place I have stayed long time.

I rent, what I think is, a great, relatively cheap, condominium, superb location, near a lovely lake I walk around each morning at 5.00am for exercise. Everywhere I need to go to is on a songteaw route that is very close, including the Government Hospital, which I use regularly for physio, and I have never had any complaints with the immigration office here. I live a far better quality of life here than I would back home, and have far more friends, and acquaintances, than I do back there.

If I were to move, I would have to start the whole process over again, meeting new people (who to trust, and who not to?), registering at a new hospital, and getting familiar with it, finding my way round a new environment, and, most importantly, finding accommodation as good as the one I am in now.

At aged late fifties, I cannot see the point of leaving and starting again somewhere else, in view of the above, and would only do so if I was forced to, and I would think most people here feel the same. So I , personally, cannot see a mass exodus of expats out, unless it is financially not possible to remain here.

hi Thaiwrath

can you send me an e-mail?

I am in that situation where I appreciate any tip/advice about living here.

[email protected]

appreciate

[bender92]

No loss.

[hotchilli]

For many reasons people may be making alternative plans.

Some are now financially unable to meet the new requirements, business visa's linked to a work permit is only short term and not transferable, the exchange rate may make other destinations more viable.

Thailand will see a change in trend, while statistics can be used to show what you like the trend is there!

[NCC1701A]

soon I will be the only person at immigration.

 

and I will be very nicely dressed.

 

[Gecko123]

Curious about the source of the OP's data and whether similar data is available for other nationalities. The people who are dismissing the OP's conclusions as "statistically insignificant" don't seem to understand that the OP's conclusions aren't based on an extrapolation from a sample data set, but rather on the actual total number of visas renewed on a year-over-year basis.

[djayz]

1 hour ago, Lucius verus said:

There are plenty of Indians and Africans filling the void.

Nothing to see here!!

And Chinese gambling den owners, don't forget those! ????

[Beggar]

Before they die completely out in Thailand can we donate?