Blatant abuse of entry denials at Phuket Airport

[EricTh]

I hear a lot of visa runners doing multiple tourist visa entries per year and they never had this problem in the past.

 

But then, the immigration might have been stricter starting this year.

 

Watch video below for a similar situation.

 

 

[lamyai3]

5 hours ago, lkv said:

I don't believe in the "rogue" IO theory. It's a coordinated effort. When they go molesting people in the street asking them to pee in cups, what's that? Not law breaking also?

Yes, the same low ranking IOs who made no problems for people in previous years are now being told to follow different orders. This extremely hostile policy of denials, paid detentions and overpriced flights out must be a major ordeal for anyone caught up in it. They may be used to treating their own citizens with this level of disdain, but to subject tourists and expats to it will backfire big time before too long. They were deeply shamed in the international media on the urine testing issue, it can only be a matter of time before something similar happens here too.

[lkv]

18 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

They were deeply shamed in the international media on the urine testing issue, it can only be a matter of time before something similar happens here too.

Yeah as I said, I much doubt that some case of rejection on a tourist entry is going to make the media. Immigration in any country has the right to refuse entry to a traveller if they suspect they will misuse their visa, i.e. work, so I don't see what's so exciting about that.

 

Other stuff is circulating now, this anti farang attitude is going in the heads of regular people. I will link it, even though it's a bit off topic. My excuse is that it's about Phuket. ????

 

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/tourism/opinion-thailand-land-of-false-smiles?amp

Edited July 5, 2019 by lkv

[nkg]

1 hour ago, Time Traveller said:

yep. No matter that you follow their rules, have evidence of what you are doing, and how you dress, you are totally at the whims of some braindead immigration officer over whether you're allowed to stay in thailand, or must leave.

 

Of course, there'll be a few posters come on here and say they've never had a problem because they follow the rules, polite and dress nice.

 

Yes, you are temporarily in their power. You should act accordingly.

 

Be calm, polite, and patient. Be deferential (even if it's just an act).

 

The man in front of you may be a petty, arrogant, miserable individual - but if you show them anything other than respect, they have all kind of ways of making your life miserable. If you start an argument with them, you are done.

 

I would be interested to know if dtag had a disagreement with the immigration officer, however minor.

 

[lamyai3]

10 minutes ago, lkv said:

Yeah as I said, I much doubt that some case of rejection on a tourist entry is going to make the media.

Any such article would need to be a bit broader in scope to make a story, but three days detention in a windowless dormitory (for which you're being charged) is certainly much more than just a denial of entry. It'd be far more reasonable to grant seven days entry and a warning stamp if they suspected the OP of working than what he was subjected to. There's an increasing tide of tourist-hostile policies here which is sure to reach critical mass when they screw with the wrong person. 

[lkv]

34 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Any such article would need to be a bit broader in scope to make a story, but three days detention in a windowless dormitory (for which you're being charged) is certainly much more than just a denial of entry. It'd be far more reasonable to grant seven days entry and a warning stamp if they suspected the OP of working than what he was subjected to. There's an increasing tide of tourist-hostile policies here which is sure to reach critical mass when they screw with the wrong person. 

Yeah the reason for the 3 days (and I did check this on the AirAsia website), is that Wednesday and Thursday they have no direct flights from Phuket to Phnom Pehn, only via DMK, and Immigration likely did not find that acceptable.

 

The first and only direct available flight was Friday morning at 06:15 (FD 640), which he was on.

Edited July 6, 2019 by lkv

[huberthammer]

11 hours ago, JayBird said:

The next concern is if they start denying visitors on a Thailand Elite. Hopefully they don't shoot themself in their own foot by doing that.

how did you come to this conclusion?

[lkv]

33 minutes ago, lkv said:

The first and only direct available flight was Friday morning at 06:15 (FD 640), which he was on.

And the only other possible flight he could have arrived with was Tuesday 08:35 from Phnom Pehn, arriving in Phuket at 10 am (FD 641).

 

So yes, he spent his time in Phuket airport from Tuesday 10 AM to Friday 6 AM.

 

It's a very unfortunate case of airline, airport, route and unavailability of direct flights.

Edited July 6, 2019 by lkv

[mvdf]

On 7/4/2019 at 4:17 PM, NightSky said:

 

I don't claim to be perfect English teacher but I am a native English speaker and you mention that you are a fully qualified teacher although sorry mate your English is far from perfecto-mundo! Therefore I doubt your qualification as a teacher.

 

I can't see what benefit they (immigration) see for refusing a genuine tourist, this is why I believe you likely have skipped some information out maybe? You already forgot to mention the previous work in Chiang Mai and the previous passport until another member pointed that out and then you forgot which type of visa you held, what else did you skip over or miss out?

 

That is an utterly hilarious condemnation whilst claiming to be a world-class educator and forgetting how to properly structure a complex sentence. "What else did you skip over or miss out" should be preceded by a full stop. 

 

Asians like me find it mindbogglingly revolting when certain people claim to be a "less than perfect English teacher" whilst hypocritically qualifying that claim with a blistering critique plastered with syntax issues. 

 

 

[Lenny Jones]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

You sound like the lawyer that told me I had no chance of winning a case against a large hospital group. I'm a farang, bound to lose, they don't care..........bla bla bla...........I won. Much the same here, everybody whinging but how many will actually make a complaint? Now let's guess you'll reply that I won against a hospital not Immigration. No doubt if things were reversed you'd tell me I wouldn't win against a hospital.

 

Believe me, if enough of a fuss is made about this that TAT feel there could be damage to tourism, something will be done.

I put a large internationally-base hospital group here in Thailand into the international courts in Europe (not me exactly but my government) after they illegally confiscated my passport and would not return it until my account was paid in total.  They "borrowed" it off my Thai wife to "photocopy for their records" then would not return it.

 

Having a legal background I told them they had broken the law.  The manager's response? - - "Too bad.  This is Thailand"

 

Bad mistake - - - - - I went through my embassy and legal contacts to push the case and it worked.

 

[lkv]

18 minutes ago, Lenny Jones said:

Bad mistake - - - - - I went through my embassy and legal contacts to push the case and it worked.

 

Yes, the reason it worked is because they did not confiscate your property, they confiscated your foreign government's property.

 

When they confiscate your property under Thai laws, there's not much your foreign government will be able to do about it.

Edited July 6, 2019 by lkv

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Do you eventually pay the bill?

They had to sue him!

[JayBird]

how did you come to this conclusion?

It's not a conclusion, it's a concern.

[reefsurfah]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

Yeah as I said, I much doubt that some case of rejection on a tourist entry is going to make the media. Immigration in any country has the right to refuse entry to a traveller if they suspect they will misuse their visa, i.e. work, so I don't see what's so exciting about that.

 

Other stuff is circulating now, this anti farang attitude is going in the heads of regular people. I will link it, even though it's a bit off topic. My excuse is that it's about Phuket. ????

 

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/tourism/opinion-thailand-land-of-false-smiles?amp

Someone commented in the article, "Re. your article about karon market, what the writer forgot to mention is that most of the stalls are not run /owned by Thai people but people from Nepal,India,Bangladesh & Pakistan."  Perhaps should not jump to conclusions without being there. 

[Ctkong]

15 hours ago, thaibreaker said:

I can assure you, there are many countries that dont want us staying for a longer while. Malaysia is one of them, I was denied my last entry there, after only two 90 days entries. Even got a stamp telling I may be denied in the future. For no reason whatsoever, I just wanted to stay as a tourist for more than 6 months in total.

 

When neighboring countries are together on this practice in the future, there are not a lot of options in Asia anymore for people under 50, not married or without the 800k in a thai bank (Malaysia have a similar thing for their second home visa).

 

The thing is they dont need our money anymore, I guess.

I think malaysia as well as Singapore has this thing about maximum 180 days per 12 months period previously. Don’t know about current rules though. 

[Thaidream]

There is no doubt that certain people of influence have decide that Western tourism needs to be controlled for a multitude of reasons that have already been discussed.

 

The simplest proof of this is the eye test-  when I used to do my yearly extension at CW about 10 years ago- the ratio of Western applicants to- non Western was about 70%-30;  as the years have gone on- I would say it has been reversed.

 

From time to time I spend a few bights in Bangkok hotels-mostly 2 and 3 star- hardly a Westerner in sight- mostly other Asians.

 

a few months again I read a report on the top 10 visitors to Thailand and there not a Western country (except Russia) in the top 10.

 

Another recent report- indicated visitors from Nordic countries was down and when I visit Cha Am and Hua Hon- a former Nordic favorite- it is obvious they don't come in big numbers anymore.

 

Thailand down't need the Western money anymore as it believes it can replace that income with the Chinese; Indians and other Asean.  In fact, Thailand seems to consider Europe and the America's as less than desirable for tourism.

 

IMO- Thailand is making a huge mistake as the Chinese are already starting to feel the economic pinch and are opting for cheaper destinations;  the  Indians are not treated well due to discriminatory feelings and the majority of Asean visitors are day trippers from Singapore/Malaysia.

 

Those in power are also trying to sanitize Bangkok and make it look like Singapore or New York with more 5 star hotels; 5 star prices and high end malls. All the charm of Bangkok is fading with the loss of street food; street vendors and the great older hotels that had a special charm.

 

Every country has a right to control its borders but using the current tactics will cause a long term resentment that will be passed onto family and friends.  

 

There is an old saying- be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you may meet  them on the way down.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Thaidream

[jspill]

17 hours ago, Happy4th said:

If you are ever flying into Thailand and worried about getting a refusal I would first consult with Thai Visa Centre

http://line.me/R/ti/p/%40thaivisacentre

They can ensure that you wont be put in such a situation.

 

Safe travels.

This company's service is 150k to be put on the books of some shell company and get a work permit for a year, then 10k / year after that for renewals. Obviously I'm suspicious but if someone with more than a few posts on thaivisa has ever done it successfully I would do it. 

[sweatalot]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Any such article would need to be a bit broader in scope to make a story, but three days detention in a windowless dormitory (for which you're being charged) is certainly much more than just a denial of entry. It'd be far more reasonable to grant seven days entry and a warning stamp if they suspected the OP of working than what he was subjected to. There's an increasing tide of tourist-hostile policies here which is sure to reach critical mass when they screw with the wrong person. 

I don't think the policy is tourist hostile - they just want to make sure you are a real tourist with no undisclosed intention. I also don't think the attitude is anti farang. The problems are not with the standard tourist entering for a short period of time, because them being genuine tourists is easy to see. Problems are only with those who seem to abuse the system - and may be in the moment  they risk some "collateral damage". There was so much abuse of tourist visas in the past that's why they have to make clear their rules have to be obeyed. And don't forget Thailand was a save haven for foreign (mostly western) criminals. I think over time they will relax after all the abusers are purged. Anyway in the case of the OP they go too far and act inappropriately.  Even discussing with the person they want to deny entry  should be a no go.

Edited July 6, 2019 by sweatalot

[sweatalot]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

And the only other possible flight he could have arrived with was Tuesday 08:35 from Phnom Pehn, arriving in Phuket at 10 am (FD 641).

 

So yes, he spent his time in Phuket airport from Tuesday 10 AM to Friday 6 AM.

 

It's a very unfortunate case of airline, airport, route and unavailability of direct flights.

... and a very  irrational rule that he has to use the same airline and not one of the first ones available

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Much the same here, everybody whinging but how many will actually make a complaint? Now let's guess you'll reply that I won against a hospital not Immigration. No doubt if things were reversed you'd tell me I wouldn't win against a hospital.

You won against a hospital, not a regulatory, government that arbitrarily enforces their laws.

 

Those in temporary detention 'air side' like the OP, have no access to legal counsel. AFAIK, the Thai immigration laws don't state if they are entitled to any legal counsel. Yes, there is an identified appeals process but it is designed to quickly fall into the 'too hard' category by placing the onus on the appellant to self-file within a short period whilst typically denied access to communications beyond his/her phone, smart or otherwise.

[julot]

On 7/4/2019 at 8:21 PM, dtag said:

As I mentioned, the work permit was voided while I was in PP, as my job was over.

@dtag Re-reading this thread and found this statement weird.

When leaving a job in Thailand, Work permit and visa/extension of stay must be voided/cancelled at immigration office in Thailand, and possessor must leave country the same day or can apply for a 7-day extension. Not doing this can lead to future immigration problems.

 

A work permit cannot be "voided" abroad (in PP as you stated). So have you or not cancelled your WP in Thailand before leaving?

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

I don't think the policy is tourist hostile - they just want to make sure you are a real tourist with no undisclosed intention. I also don't think the policy is anti West. The problems are not with the standard tourist entering for a short period of time, because them being genuine tourists is easy to see. Problems are only with those who seem to abuse the system - and may be in the moment  they risk some "collateral damage". There was so much abuse of tourist visas in the past that's why they have to make clear their rules have to be obeyed. I think over time they will relax after all the abusers are purged. Anyway in the case of the OP they go too far and act inappropriately and not even discussing with the person should be a no go.

How many Japanese or Chinese have ever been refused entry?  I don't know but I am certain not in as many numbers as Westerners or it maybe that these Nationalities simply do not cause issues when in Thailand such as overstay; drunk and disorderly; robbery; drug usage etc.

 

IMO- one of the main issues is how the Immigration treats foreigners who are refused entry. The reports coming in appear to show unprofessional handling; a refusal to allow the person to 'make their case'; a hostile attitude towards the person; and  no actual legal reason to deny entry as well as a refusal to allow an appeal.  At the same time- using a Thai only form to elicit a signature which in effect is a guilty plea and then using an 'airline rep to 'process' the person denied  -as well as the 'extra' charges looks shady.

 

If a Government wants to enforce it's immigration law- so be it, but their behavior and methodology in doing this should be above board.

[ChipButty]

What ever guys, did he manage to get on the plane? maybe he'll come back and fill us in with the details 

[Ctkong]

14 hours ago, oldwelshman said:

So why have them issue visas in the first place? IO in Thaiand is farcical, they make it up as they go along.

The embassies tried to issue as many tourist visas for ‘suspicious ‘ tourists as possible because they qualify for the necessary requirements. They do not know where and how the tourists are going to enter Thailand. It is up to the immigration officials who have more information and training to weed out the dodgy ones upon border control. I believe most visa applicants would rather take their chances than having their visas being denied outright by the embassies. After all, if denied at one place, they can always try different entry points which are more lenient. 

[sweatalot]

6 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

The embassies tried to issue as many tourist visas for ‘suspicious ‘ tourists as possible because they qualify for the necessary requirements. They do not know where and how the tourists are going to enter Thailand. It is up to the immigration officials who have more information and training to weed out the dodgy ones upon border control. I believe most visa applicants would rather take their chances than having their visas being denied outright by the embassies. After all, if denied at one place, they can always try different entry points which are more lenient. 

And those with a clean history without intention of any visa abuse will not need to go through all that hassle  - they will just get an appropriate visa and will be welcomed.

Edited July 6, 2019 by sweatalot

[ubonjoe]

58 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

How many Japanese or Chinese have ever been refused entry? 

Not sure about Japanese but I am sure there have been some.

For Chinese I can recall reports by those denied entry about there being Chinese and those from other Asian countries being in detention with them.

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

What ever guys, did he manage to get on the plane? maybe he'll come back and fill us in with the details 

Flew out yesterday, see post #81. 

[huberthammer]

4 hours ago, JayBird said:

5 hours ago, huberthammer said:

how did you come to this conclusion?

It's not a conclusion, it's a concern.

I hope the sky will not fall on my head

 

similar concern based on nothing really

 

[acenase]

10 hours ago, lkv said:

. It's the first time ever that it states the reason for denial being too many tourist visas.

 

There must have been some sort or change that we aren't yet aware of.

 

People are getting denied more than ever before. And just imagine how many people who aren't even on these forums or post about it.

 

I've only been in Thailand without going back to the US for over a year, and was already denied entry at Suvarnabhumi Airport with a fresh, new, unused Tourist Visa from Bali. (previous visas I had were from traveling around to different countries: Hong Kong, Hanoi, Vientiane, Bali) I even had proof of onward flight in 60 days (to Singapore), 30,000 Baht cash in my wallet, and a copy of my accomodation in Bangkok. (Search my old post for my report)

 

 The IO never asked for any proof ofs but just said "Go home. You come too many times" And on my "Refusal of Landing Report", the reason for denial was written in Thai "Kao Ork Thai Boi" (Enter/Exit Thai often - Visa Run)

 

So something is changing. Maybe they can't change the actual printed law, but word of mouth, higher up supervisors making up their own law and telling their employees to crack down on people staying in Thailand using tourist visas. They seem to have a issue with someone who doesn't show that he went back to his home country in between his visits. So using Thailand as a "base" to travel around Asia isn't acceptable anymore.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by acenase

[Briggsy]

@acenase

 

What is the reason on your denial stamp in your passport? I would wager it is different.