Blatant abuse of entry denials at Phuket Airport

[sanemax]

On 7/4/2019 at 9:28 PM, dtag said:

I agree with you Khao Yai in trying fight for things , if I had a longer term plan of living here. Really this just screwed up for me how I wanted to start a much longer trip to other parts of Asia, Aus, and NZ. I was looking forward to this journey starting with visiting parts of the country I have never had time to get to. Because I actually really like Thailand and most Thai people. Losing that is worse than spending 3 days bored and annoyed. But it's ruined now.

And, based on plenty of time to converse, I know this place is now ruined for everyone else I have shared this room with. Those living here will be moving away for good , and the tourists will definitely never return, nor will their friends and family ever come here on a trip.

This hasn't been- oh just get on the next plane out. It's been being locked in a room where you rely on random visits by airline  security employee offering  to take money buy you food and water a few times a day. And having two beds for three complete strangers , etc.  

 

Living quarters , along with a small love seats,  to the side, for 2-3 grown siting together all day and sleeping at night. Go ahead and say "i must be your fault" , But you come do this for 3 days when you had a valid visa issued by an embasy

Thee people in a room, I recall that the IO charge 800 Baht per day per person .

If they get a full house every night , that's 72 000 Baht per month .

Times that by how many rooms they have .

Where does all the money go ?

Could this be a money making exercise for I.O's ? 

[acenase]

Yeah that's how they can leverage getting what they want.

 

My goal is to enter Thailand. Not pay 800฿ Per day and wait for who knows how long? Just to appeal a wrong decision when they are giving me a Plan B to book a flight out anywhere I want on Thai Airlines (they don't fly to USA, so it's impossible to go back to my home country, since you can only leave on the airlines you flew in on.) 

 

And since they don't void my tourist visa, I still have a fresh unused visa I can use at the border.  So my best option is to just book the next flight out to Vientiane and get out of that jail cell.

Edited July 7, 2019 by acenase

[Briggsy]

9 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Do you have previous visa on arrival

Please keep up. The OP has shown his passport. He is American. U.S. citizens don't get visa on arrival. These are for 18 low to middle income countries. The vast majority of visas on arrival are issued to Chinese and Indian Nationals.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

What is your history on visiting Thailand, especially in the past two or three years? Do you have previous visa on arrival esp with extensions? You need to show that you are a genuine tourist. Maybe a package tour?

I wouldn't show your address as your girlfriend's house or a cheap guesthouse.

Those may, in the current climate, indeed be factors in immigration decisions. It is worth bearing in mind, though, that none of these aspects is a valid reason for immigration to deny entry according to the law and the police orders if you are entering with a visa. Denying entry for those reasons is possible only because they use a bogus reason for the denial, and no one at a higher level prevents this malpractice.

[acenase]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

What is your history on visiting Thailand, especially in the past two or three years? Do you have previous visa on arrival esp with extensions? You need to show that you are a genuine tourist. Maybe a package tour?

I wouldn't show your address as your girlfriend's house or a cheap guesthouse.

 

I consider myself a genuine tourist. I just love to travel slow. I've been to Thailand on Visa Exempt stamps a few times in 2017 but only stayed for a week or less. Then decided I'd prefer to rent out a flat in bangkok since it's more affordable than booking a hotel. In 2018-now, I traveled out every 2-3 months. Rome, Vienna (Returned to Thailand with no visa), Hong Kong (1st tourist visa), Vientiane (2nd tourist visa), Japan (return to Thailand with no visa), Vientiane again (3rd tourist visa), Hanoi (4th tourist visa), Bali (5th tourist visa) denied entry at Suvarnabhumi. Now I will attempt to get my 6th tourist visa in my passport at Savannakhet next week. Will report back my experience on that. But if I'm not considered a genuine tourist when I'm traveling around to different places for the first time then I don't know what a tourist really is. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by acenase

[Number 6]

Go to another country. Problem solved. I don't know what people see in Thailand any more. Oh yeah...it's still the pu%%y.

 

If I didn't have a wife and job I'd be so long gone regardless of immigration airport hassles.

[pby92]

On 7/4/2019 at 9:58 PM, dtag said:

I have kept in touch with some of the other guys who were here before. One Australian guy detained also came in on a 60 day tourist vista he got from KL embassy. He lived in Aus and had not even visited Thailand in years. He had booked rooms for the whole time, etc.  When returning his passport , it had a letter saying he could not stay because he had "insufficient funds" Well, he had had to show his bank balance in KL to get the visa, and had never been asked here to provide them again. They just essentially made up a reason to boot him. Just like with me- insisting I was going to come back to work illegally with zero justification for saying this.

In the end , they can not allow an embassy to say you are acceptable for a visa , then have different rules here at the airport.

 

Yeah wisperone- I meant  my tourist dollars for life. In the short term, the money I would have spent here will now be going into the hands of Filipinos mostly

 

10k baths must be show in cash

I am actually in Philippines but yes when you are in the country renewing visa is easy but at immigration Mactan Cebu airport even with a 59 days visa from Philippines Consulat in Paris I was scrutinize and interview never happen to me in Thailand where I plan to go back.

Edited July 7, 2019 by pby92

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

He admits to multiple entries into Thailand. That's a red flag for IO. Is he bringing in things to sell or taking things out? Renting a flat also contradicts travelling around as a tourist. It doesn't fit the standard tourist profile. Entering via different ports also a red flag. Lots of red flags here. He could be a legit tourist but he did things that raised suspicion.  

Suspicion for what? Working? Then he would have been denied for suspicion of working, wouldn't he? He was denied for not having money.

[Date Masamune]

23 hours ago, acenase said:

 

 

Yeah but at the very least it's worth a shot otherwise you just sign the denial paper and be denied anyways.  The reason why it could work is because when I got denied entry he asked me "Do you know the Thai law?" And I stupidly said No. And that's when he said "You come to Thailand too much. You can not go to another country and come back. You need to go back and spend time in your own country first if you want to come back." 

 

But it wasn't until I saw my passport again and saw the stamp which is marked for Number 2, insufficient funds, is when i questioned it. But it was too late because now I was talking to the Thai Airline staff about it and not involved with Immigration staff when I saw my passport again. I was at the Thai Airline office booking my flight out to Vientiane before they let me out of the holding center and released me back into the Airport Departures Terminal.

 

But even the Airline staff, were giving me problems and saying I need to go back to my own country. But luckily, Thai Airlines don't fly to USA. And since I flew into Bangkok from Bali on Thai Airlines, they were responsible for my departure. I could only use Thai Airlines to fly out of Bangkok. So it was impossible for me to go back to USA anyways. But they kept saying I can not come to Thailand anymore.  They asked me where am I gonna go after I go to Vientiane? I told them "I will go to Thai-Laos Friendship bridge and enter at Nong Khai and fly to Bangkok from Udon Thani." And Thai Airline supervisor kept saying "Can not! You can not. You will run into same problem again." and I said "No, this doesn't mean I am banned from Thailand. And the reason says 'insufficient funds' and I have 30K cash in my wallet so it's wrong. This just means they dont want me to come in at this airport so I will fly back to Bangkok from Udon Thani" but then he said I will have a problem at DMK, but when I said "No, because I will already have my entry stamped at Nong Khai so when I fly to DMK from Udon, it will be a domestic flight, so I won't pass through Immigration." He didn't say anything after that.  

I don't think this is accurate totally about Thai airways just because they dont fly to USA anymore. No USA airline flies to Thailand either. How do you think us Americans get here? It is all codeshares  or foreign carriers these days.

Thai Airways does sell tickets to the USA. Check their website. Yes it would be a code share and there is a change of plane in NRT, KIX, etc. A couple years ago I flew to Swampi from Korea was hit with the "You have to buy a ticket back to your country" nonsense. I flat out refused. I think it is just you cant be forced to buy a ticket back to your country unless you are officially deported.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Date Masamune

[Date Masamune]

32 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Comes off as being angry. Sorry to lecture but no one seems to have told you otherwise. To survive in Thailand a cool heart "jai yen" is required. Getting angry is viewed as low upbringing or status. Its not the way to get respect. Hope this helps you.

There is a difference between being rude/polite and Jai Yen/jai rawn and simply assertive. Sometimes, even as a foreigner in Thailand being politely  assertive will do fine, as long as you don't get Angry, as you said.  No reason to get angry. I was working legally in Korea with no reason to buy a ticket to the US.

[dtag]

I'm American. I called my embassy in the first hours of my detention and they said they could not do anything really. They said they could try and call to see why I needed to stay 3 days rather than just fly to Malaysia instead of back to Cambodia. Never heard anything else from them.

It's done now. I'm taking my holiday in Philippines and trying to work things out so I never have to go to Thailand again. It's a sad way for things to end in a place I have worked a few different times in my career, and considered a second home. But , it is what it is.

[brewsterbudgen]

There is, hopefully, more to this. Many teachers have to leave Thailand on the day, or 7 days after, their work contract finishes. It is common practice to go to a neighbouring country and then re-enter on a visa-exempt or get a Tourist visa, to allow you back in to sort out your belongings or start looking for a new job.

There must be more to this.

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[brewsterbudgen]

Perhaps if you could get another teaching contract, they could work it out for you. Since you've been here a few times before might I ask what kind of a visa did you use before. If you entered as a tourist and converted to Non B, they may think you are planning to do it again. I'm not personally against such, but its not being a tourist but to seek employment. I guess however, you could do both. 

There is absolutely nothing against Thai Immigration rules to look for work while being in Thailand on a Tourist visa, as long as you don't start the job until you've switched to a Non-Immigrant B visa and got a work permit. B visas can only be issued after you have been offered a job.

The OP has been harshly and wrongly treated. However I suspect (and hope) there is more to the story.

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[dtag]

There is not "more to this". My posts are exactly what happened. I did not even get angry with the IO when he yelled at me. At first, I thought it was just a young IO trying to act tough and I would be let in, so I acted as jai yen as  I could.

As I stated, I have only ever come into Thailand before on Non-Imm B visas with my work situation.already sorted. I don't intend to seek work there ever again and hope to never have to even visit.

The only reason for me to come back is to try and sell my car, but I am working on getting that done by a former co-worker.

I have told my story, if folks want to desperately cling to some hope that things like this can not happen in Thailand, they can go ahead and keep believing that. But I would expect to hear more stories like min in the near future

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, dtag said:

There is not "more to this". My posts are exactly what happened. I did not even get angry with the IO when he yelled at me. At first, I thought it was just a young IO trying to act tough and I would be let in, so I acted as jai yen as  I could.

As I stated, I have only ever come into Thailand before on Non-Imm B visas with my work situation.already sorted. I don't intend to seek work there ever again and hope to never have to even visit.

The only reason for me to come back is to try and sell my car, but I am working on getting that done by a former co-worker.

I have told my story, if folks want to desperately cling to some hope that things like this can not happen in Thailand, they can go ahead and keep believing that. But I would expect to hear more stories like min in the near future

This is Thaivisa forum , posters read posts , change the words around , add a few words , take a few words out , until posts agree with their viewpoint 

[jacko45k]

On 7/5/2019 at 2:33 PM, dtag said:

Also- oddly The Tourist visa has no void stamp or any mark on it or anything.

Gonna try coming over at a  land-border with it?

[buick]

5 hours ago, dtag said:

There is not "more to this". My posts are exactly what happened.

i believe the story and you answered a question i had before, saying you didn't sign any papers.  were you charged for your stay in the detention room ?  i'm not trying to poke holes in your story, etc...  just trying to figure out how to help others avoid these issues.  reportedly, at DMK and BKK, if you don't sign the forms (where it states, in thai, that you agree to pay for your detention room and fly back on the airline that brought you in), you are allowed to leave the same day you arrived and you pick the airline and location.  maybe they don't charge for the room in HKT and thereby don't request signatures on the form(s) ?

 

 

[lkv]

32 minutes ago, buick said:

 are allowed to leave the same day you arrived and you pick the airline and location. 

It's not that simple.

 

You can't just pick the airline and location. I mean, you can, but it's very likely they will decline to carry you. And why would they carry a high risk passenger to some other destination, so that they get the same surprise at that destination? They'd have to take you out of the "dungeon" also, it's not a regular check in process either.

 

However, the airline that brought you in, is responsible to take you out. So what the OP could have done, is negotiate with Air Asia to take him somewhere else instead of Phnom Pehn. But that's not simple either, because Air Asia can decline. "Why would I fly you to Singapore? If IO's in Singapore see what just happened here, they will detain you and send you to your home country".

 

So you end up bouncing from country to country.

 

Or in some cases they relent and send you to a destination with a lower risk of rejection. But it's still a risk to them. And to the traveller.

 

The best from their point of view is to send you to a country where you have a solid visa, or home country (not applicable for Air Asia unless you are Asian), or where you came from.

Edited July 8, 2019 by lkv

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, dtag said:

There is not "more to this". My posts are exactly what happened. I did not even get angry with the IO when he yelled at me. At first, I thought it was just a young IO trying to act tough and I would be let in, so I acted as jai yen as  I could.

As I stated, I have only ever come into Thailand before on Non-Imm B visas with my work situation.already sorted. I don't intend to seek work there ever again and hope to never have to even visit.

The only reason for me to come back is to try and sell my car, but I am working on getting that done by a former co-worker.

I have told my story, if folks want to desperately cling to some hope that things like this can not happen in Thailand, they can go ahead and keep believing that. But I would expect to hear more stories like min in the near future

So why don't you clear up the confusion regarding the termination of your workpermit?

[brewsterbudgen]

There is not "more to this". My posts are exactly what happened. I did not even get angry with the IO when he yelled at me. At first, I thought it was just a young IO trying to act tough and I would be let in, so I acted as jai yen as  I could.
As I stated, I have only ever come into Thailand before on Non-Imm B visas with my work situation.already sorted. I don't intend to seek work there ever again and hope to never have to even visit.
The only reason for me to come back is to try and sell my car, but I am working on getting that done by a former co-worker.
I have told my story, if folks want to desperately cling to some hope that things like this can not happen in Thailand, they can go ahead and keep believing that. But I would expect to hear more stories like min in the near future

Then hopefully it's a one-off error by an over-zealous officer in Phuket.

It's standard practice for teachers to enter on tourist visas or visa exempt after their Work Extensions are finished, while they look for a new job.

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[dtag]

In the end, this is the letter saying why I was expelled- having no appropriate means of living . This is utterly absurd as I furnished my bank balance  when applying for the tourist visa and could easily have proven the value of both my thai and American bank accounts if asked to do so in Phuket. . So , everyone else's little pet theories are moot based on the actual documentation from the IO himself. . This wasn't being"overzealous" this was someone being a complete liar.

And as I have explained- it is not a one off error- 6 other guys were in with me at different points and only two or three of whom  could even possibly be described as visa runners. The first 2 got this same letter, despite having plenty of money to support themselves while in Thailand.

Edited July 8, 2019 by dtag

[lkv]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Then hopefully it's a one-off error by an over-zealous officer in Phuket.

We seem to be encountering more and more errors in the Thai Immigration system every day now.

 

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

It's standard practice for teachers to enter on tourist visas or visa exempt after their Work Extensions are finished, while they look for a new job.

Well it was standard practice up until a few days ago. We need to get more reports to see what the standard practice will be from now on.

 

But it's not looking great at the moment with all I am seeing here and on Facebook (not in reference to this, in reference to other visa combinations also).

Edited July 8, 2019 by lkv

[brewsterbudgen]

In the end, this is the letter saying why I was expelled- having no appropriate means of living . This is utterly absurd as I furnished my bank balance  when applying for the tourist visa and could easily have proven the value of both my thai and American bank accounts if asked to do so in Phuket. . So , everyone else's little pet theories are moot based on the actual documentation from the IO himself. . This wasn't being"overzealous" this was someone being a complete liar.
And as I have explained- it is not a one off error- 6 other guys were in with me at different points and only two or three of whom  could even possibly be described as visa runners. The first 2 got this same letter, despite having plenty of money to support themselves while in Thailand.

That is standard. It's pretty much the only legal reason for denying entry when they suspect you are not a genuine tourist.

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[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

That is standard. It's pretty much the only legal reason for denying entry when they suspect you are not a genuine tourist.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Exactly.,... So many threads with ...."but I had 20kbaht on me...."

The op could of had 20k USD on him. Would not make scrap of difference. 

Brew has pointed to that fact. 

[JohnnyBKK]

They believe you came back to work illegally after losing your work permit of course. For them it doesn't make any sense to come back to Thailand in such a case. Thai people will sell their cars to car tents in 5 min for whatever is offered to them, that's not a viable excuse neither.

 

And you are not a tourist neither, you worked here, that is not tourism. The officer was super strict but followed guidelines as stated by the law.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyBKK said:

They believe you came back to work illegally after losing your work permit of course. For them it doesn't make any sense to come back to Thailand in such a case. Thai people will sell their cars to car tents in 5 min for whatever is offered to them, that's not a viable excuse neither.

 

And you are not a tourist neither, you worked here, that is not tourism. The officer was super strict but followed guidelines as stated by the law.

Then why didn't the IO deny him for 12.3 (working)?

[lkv]

OP, what did the Embassy in Phnom Pehn tell you about this? Or did you use an agent?

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by lkv

[Parker2100]

Same deal in Bangkok.  I was harassed at DMK on Tuesday for "not being a tourist." My passport shows that I have been to Myanmar for 20 days, Indonesia for 30 days, and Malaysia for 60 days, so far this year.  To which the officer responded "cannot travel...not allowed."  Huh?  I am a tourist that is not allowed to travel?  Or did she mean I am not a tourist because I travel?

They allowed me in but noted my passport that I am not allowed back in Thailand unless I have a Non O Visa.  So, in effect, I have been banned from Thailand.  Even Overstayers can come back after a year but this note (assuming it is on their database also) will hang there forever.   I won't know if is there forever until I come back and see if they let me in.  But since I don't want to do that, I guess it is forever.

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, Parker2100 said:

(assuming it is on their database also)

It's most likely not

[dtag]

So once someone works in a country, they can then never again be considered a tourist there? I did not "lose" my work permit. It was cancelled as the school year had just ended and I was not returning to the same school (international school year)

And even if you prove you have money enough to support yourself to get a visa, it is "standard practice" to not be allowed in for not having enough money? These comments are just getting stupider.

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by dtag