Blatant abuse of entry denials at Phuket Airport

[bkk6060]

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

It's most likely not

It most likely is.

If they warned him they have the ability to make a notation in his database file.

[Parker2100]

Why wouldn't it be?  They are getting into Databases in the last few months.  This time she did bring up something that happened last year, when they also accused me of not being a Tourist but let me in that time also.

They can see right there, on your passport, where you have been and when.  Why do they insist I am trying to live in Thailand illegally?  

They also will say people are trying get around their rules.  That is just it.  Most of these things they are busting people on are their own internal fuzzy policies that most foreigners have no way of knowing until they are at the immigration counter (sometimes not even then). Not laws or hard rules. Not only that, but they make stuff up at the last minute.  For whatever reason.

[brewsterbudgen]

So once someone works in a country, they can then never again be considered a tourist there?
Ans even if you prove you have money enough to support yourself to get a visa, it is "standard practice" to not be allowed in for not having enough money? These comments are just getting stupider.
 

Indeed, it would be ridiculous. Anyone on a Work Extension is required to leave the country on the day their Extension ends (unless they buy a 7 day extension). The normal practise is to leave Thailand and then return as a tourist to sort out your affairs and, unless you decide to leave Thailand, try to get a new job.

I have every sympathy with how the OP has been treated but I don't see any evidence that this is an official change of policy or practice.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dtag]

Well, nothing that I read anywhere indicated my situation would be an issue. If I had thought so, I could have easily gotten everything sorted in Thailand to be shipped out, sold, etc. back in June as I finished work. Then headed out to the Philippines or wherever I else I wanted to go. I have moved between countries quite a lot during my career, so it really wold have been pretty normal for me. I wasn't so desperate to spend a couple more months there. I thought it would be fun to travel to some areas of the country I had never been to. If I had known it would be even a slight headache, I wouldn't have made the plans that I did. Once I got the visa, I figured, that was the end of it and I was good to be in Thailand for that 60 days. I mean- that is the whole <deleted> purpose of a visa.

[JohnnyBKK]

17 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Indeed, it would be ridiculous. Anyone on a Work Extension is required to leave the country on the day their Extension ends (unless they buy a 7 day extension). The normal practise is to leave Thailand and then return as a tourist to sort out your affairs and, unless you decide to leave Thailand, try to get a new job.

I have every sympathy with how the OP has been treated but I don't see any evidence that this is an official change of policy or practice.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sorting affairs is not being a tourist, the immigration officer was right then when he thought he wasn't a tourist. The problem is, there is no visas to sort your affairs before leaving. I guess one has to sort his affairs first, when he knows he will not be renewing his work permit. Sell the car first before leaving Thailand. Actually that's the logic thing to do. I was in Dubai last month and I bought stuff from someone who was going to leave in 2 months, he was sorting his affairs 2 months in advance.

Edited July 8, 2019 by JohnnyBKK

[petedk]

On 7/5/2019 at 11:37 AM, monkeycu said:

Rejecting the visa  can occur in any countries

Don't bring politics into this

A visa is issued at an Embassy

Immigration don't have to accept it

Quite correct.

 

I know a Thai lady who arrived in USA with her American husband ( they were legally married) and she had a valid visa from the US Embassy in Bangkok. They were stopped at immigration and separated. After 30 minutes she was told that she was denied entry and would have to return to Thailand. She asked to see her husband as he was carrying her money in his bag.

 

Again denied.

 

She was put on a flight without any money. Unfortunately for her she had a stopover in Tokyo on the day of a Tsunami so her flight to Bangkok was delayed. 

Now they live together in Thailand.

[Parker2100]

On 7/5/2019 at 11:37 AM, monkeycu said:

Rejecting the visa  can occur in any countries

Don't bring politics into this

A visa is issued at an Embassy

Immigration don't have to accept it

No, they don't have to accept it.  But Immigration officials are expected to make sound judgements based upon sound reasoning.  An Umpire called every pitch a strike just because they can, would get fired.



 

[onera1961]

11 minutes ago, petedk said:

I know a Thai lady who arrived in USA with her American husband ( they were legally married) and she had a valid visa from the US Embassy in Bangkok. They were stopped at immigration and separated. After 30 minutes she was told that she was denied entry and would have to return to Thailand. She asked to see her husband as he was carrying her money in his bag.

 

Again denied.

 

She was put on a flight without any money. Unfortunately for her she had a stopover in Tokyo on the day of a Tsunami so her flight to Bangkok was delayed. 

Now they live together in Thailand.

If it is true, it is an extremely unusual case unless she lied in her visa application form. What was the reason for her denial?

[lkv]

24 minutes ago, dtag said:

Well, nothing that I read anywhere indicated my situation would be an issue

Your first red flag should have been the Embassy in Phnom Pehn. You received a blue stamp on your tourist visa, telling you future ones will be denied if there is no sufficient proof you are travelling for tourism.

 

Not having at go at you, but I would have questioned the Embassy/agent on why they put the blue stamp.

 

Clearly, they were of the opinion you were returning to Thailand to work.

 

I'm not saying that was your intention, I am saying that was their suspicion.

 

Which was likely based on a cheap exit flight to a neighboring country on the 60th day.

 

Or some other things, I wasn't there, you were.

Edited July 8, 2019 by lkv

[Briggsy]

6 hours ago, lkv said:

You can't just pick the airline and location. I mean, you can, but it's very likely they will decline to carry you. And why would they carry a high risk passenger to some other destination, so that they get the same surprise at that destination? They'd have to take you out of the "dungeon" also, it's not a regular check in process either.

 

However, the airline that brought you in, is responsible to take you out. So what the OP could have done, is negotiate with Air Asia to take him somewhere else instead of Phnom Pehn. But that's not simple either, because Air Asia can decline. "Why would I fly you to Singapore? If IO's in Singapore see what just happened here, they will detain you and send you to your home country".

Yes, you need to use the airline that brought you. 

 

However, I will add something to your explanation. 

 

The issue is not the airline saying you can't go here or go there but it is the airline liaison guy. The airline liaison guy works for AOT (?????) or is an Immigration outsource. He is the guy that deals with the airline on your behalf. The denied foreigner does not deal directly with the airline. The liaison works with Immigration day in day out. He will do what Immigration tell him to. He will block you buying a ticket to Laos or Malaysia if you didn't fly in from there. 

 

So, it is not the airline that is blocking you going to a nearby location but this guy who speaks to the airline on your behalf. Until you have an agreed plan in place, you don't leave the detention area. And then, as you state, you are treated as a denied entry under the ward of first, private security guard, then the cabin crew. Your documents and passport remain with these custodians.

 

I have talked about the liaison as one person, it is of course a team.

 

So, in summary, Immigration primarily approve where you go, then the airline and lastly you. All on your dollar, of course.

[SteveK]

London minimum wage is £9.15 an hour! Why would any Brit spend all that money to travel around the world to earn a few hundred baht a day illegally?

 

And why is not having a substantial amount of savings not enough to be able to live in any country? If you had 100 million baht in your Thai bank could they still refuse you under number 2?

 

What seems much more likely is that they don't like the look of you, or are having a bad day, and just use any old excuse to deny entry. Sometimes it almost sounds like the IO is fishing for something. Or they have been offered an incentive to deny entry to farangs.

Edited July 8, 2019 by SteveK

[Briggsy]

Just now, SteveK said:

London minimum wage is £9.15 an hour! Why would any Brit spend all that money to travel around the world to earn a few hundred baht a day?

 

And why is not having a substantial amount of savings not enough to be able to live in any country? If you had 100 million baht in your Thai bank could they still refuse you under number 2?

Absolutely correct.

 

The reason is there is some pressure from above driving this. But it is opaque and behind the scenes. It is not the law or any announced policy. 

 

The top two suspected reasons are i) pushing people to buy Elite visas and ii) the odd result of an anti-foreigner sentiment. Either way, it is coming from above but not officially.

[lkv]

6 minutes ago, SteveK said:

 would any Brit spend all that money to travel around the world to earn a few hundred baht a day?

Well the OP happily spent 1 year teaching English here doing just that,  it's sometimes the weather....lifestyle...perceived cheaper cost of living....and so on.

Edited July 8, 2019 by lkv

[SteveK]

It just seems weird that the Thai authorities are paranoid that people are going to fly in from Western countries to earn a complete pittance working in a bar, restaurant, or picking rice on a farm in Isaan, when an 8 hour shift in McDonalds in the UK will get you almost 3000 baht A DAY.

 

And the countless reports of IOs denying entry to people who have ample cash on them and a lot more in their current accounts would suggest that they are just being told to deny as many people as possible! They want two-week tourists only, everyone else is seen as vermin as must be denied entry or removed ASAP.

Edited July 8, 2019 by SteveK

[Briggsy]

9 minutes ago, SteveK said:

It just seems weird that the Thai authorities are paranoid that people are going to fly in from Western countries to earn a complete pittance working in a bar, restaurant, or picking rice on a farm in Isaan, when an 8 hour shift in McDonalds in the UK will get you almost 3000 baht A DAY.

 

And the countless reports of IOs denying entry to people who have ample cash on them and a lot more in their current accounts would suggest that they are just being told to deny as many people as possible! They want two-week tourists only, everyone else is seen as vermin as must be denied entry or removed ASAP.

You have assumed the reasoning for the denials.

 

Just hypothetically, what if each denial of entry earned that shift 1000 Baht to be divvied up between the staff after the shift. This is just hypothetical but if it were true, all would become clear. The point is we don't know the reason because it is being kept secret. 

[Traubert]

1 hour ago, dtag said:

These comments are just getting stupider.

 

It's 'more stupid,' teacher.

 

Stupid is not a countable.

[Briggsy]

4 minutes ago, Traubert said:

It's 'more stupid,' teacher.

 

Stupid is not a countable.

You mean 'three-syllable adjective' not 'countable', Mr grammar police. 'Countable' refers to nouns not adjectives. If you are going to correct others, you shouldn't make worse errors, or should I say 'badder'.

 

'Stupider' is colloquial American usage. @dtag is off duty. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Briggsy

[brewsterbudgen]

Sorting affairs is not being a tourist, the immigration officer was right then when he thought he wasn't a tourist. The problem is, there is no visas to sort your affairs before leaving. I guess one has to sort his affairs first, when he knows he will not be renewing his work permit. Sell the car first before leaving Thailand. Actually that's the logic thing to do. I was in Dubai last month and I bought stuff from someone who was going to leave in 2 months, he was sorting his affairs 2 months in advance.

That works if you make the decision to leave. However people can be fired or let go with minimal notice. They might have condos, kids in school or other ties to Thailand. I've worked here for 14 years and dealt with many teachers switching jobs and coming back on visa-exempt or a Tourist visa while they look for a new job. I've never come across a teacher being denied entry after previously working legally.

I still tend to think this is a Phuket IO going rogue.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[dtag]

As I mentioned before, I am not an English teacher. I am an international school teacher  and have been in various schools around the world for 15 years. My contracts are typically offered 6 to 8 months begore the school year starts , so I always enter countries on legit work visas. I was taking a year off and had already scheduled s flight to the US from new zealand in November. I am going to trsvel SE asia  from now until about mid october. Already owning s car in thailand, my plan was to spend the first 2 months on a road trip snd then sell the car . I was coming back as s tourist , and not to work. I have no idea what the hell a blue stamp means  and am not sure why I woild br expected to. 

I really find people trying to constantly change the facts of my story bizarre.  And for Gods sake - what is the point of being grammar police when someone is typing on a phone ? 

 

[JohnnyBKK]

6 minutes ago, dtag said:

As I mentioned before, I am not an English teacher. I am an international school teacher  and have been in various schools around the world for 15 years. My contracts are typically offered 6 to 8 months begore the school year starts , so I always enter countries on legit work visas. I was taking a year off and had already scheduled s flight to the US from new zealand in November. I am going to trsvel SE asia  from now until about mid october. Already owning s car in thailand, my plan was to spend the first 2 months on a road trip snd then sell the car . I was coming back as s tourist , and not to work. I have no idea what the hell a blue stamp means  and am not sure why I woild br expected to. 

I really find people trying to constantly change the facts of my story bizarre.  And for Gods sake - what is the point of being grammar police when someone is typing on a phone ? 

 

You are just a victim of the circumstances, I was also detained and sent back to my country. I told them that I had a thai child at home and they didn't care at all. Had to make arrangements from my detention cell. It was a big hassle. They truly believed that I was working in Thailand and didn't believe me when I told them I didn't need to work as I had a lot of savings that could last a lifetime.

 

What I did next was to buy the elite visa... it's all they want. They don't care how many people will have big troubles from their personal policies.

 

They want tax money or elite money.

[acenase]

I was surprised the visa isn't voided when you get denied entry.  This is what shocked me when I got denied entry. When I got my passport back I expected my Visa to have a "Void" stamp over it as well since I wasn't able to use it to enter.

 

But I believe they don't void it because they don't want anything being traced back to the IO who denied you. They know they are denying you on plausible deniability (If they don't ask to see your money, then it means you don't have the money) and if you really didn't have enough funds or onward ticket out of Thailand then the Embassy you got the Visa from should have denied you there. But if you got approved for the Visa then there is another reason that we don't know about why they are turning people away and using the "You come to Thailand to much" excuse.

 

But if they want you to buy the Thai Elite visa, that makes perfect sense. Too bad I can't afford dropping a lump sum of $15,000 for it.

Edited July 8, 2019 by acenase

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, JohnnyBKK said:

They believe you came back to work illegally after losing your work permit of course. For them it doesn't make any sense to come back to Thailand in such a case. Thai people will sell their cars to car tents in 5 min for whatever is offered to them, that's not a viable excuse neither.

 

And you are not a tourist neither, you worked here, that is not tourism. The officer was super strict but followed guidelines as stated by the law.

But he was denied because of lack of funds no?

how did the io follow the law?

[Parker2100]

9 minutes ago, acenase said:

I was surprised the visa isn't voided when you get denied entry.  This is what shocked me when I got denied entry. When I got my passport back I expected my Visa to have a "Void" stamp over it as well since I wasn't able to use it to enter.

 

But I believe they don't void it because they don't want anything being traced back to the IO who denied you. They know they are denying you on plausible deniability (If they don't ask to see your money, then it means you don't have the money) and if you really didn't have enough funds or onward ticket out of Thailand then the Embassy you got the Visa from should have denied you there. But if you got approved for the Visa then there is another reason that we don't know about why they are turning people away and using the "You come to Thailand to much" excuse.

 

But if they want you to buy the Thai Elite visa, that makes perfect sense. Too bad I can't afford dropping a lump sum of $15,000 for it.

I already have my flight booked to Cambodia.  And I have given notice on the small room I rent when I am here (I also paid rent for when I wasn't here).  I will lose the 5000 baht deposit because I was not able to give enough notice.  Glad I didn't buy the microwave I was going to buy for the room.

I won't be back for a long time, if ever.  They blacklisted me.

 

[Sujo]

Ive been going to thailand for a week every month for the past 4 years. 

 

No more, will do other countries. Thailand wont care, neither will I. Except i see reports western tourists have dropped and so has chinese, now relying on the i crease in Indians. 

 

Good luck with that.

[Caldera]

@dtag Out of curiosity, if you don't mind, how did Cambodian immigration handle your return after you had been denied entry to Thailand? Did they cancel your exit stamp, or did you need to buy a new visa on arrival and got a fresh entry stamp? Any "extra payment" for letting you back in under those circumstances?

[Parker2100]

5 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Ive been going to thailand for a week every month for the past 4 years. 

 

No more, will do other countries. Thailand wont care, neither will I. Except i see reports western tourists have dropped and so has chinese, now relying on the i crease in Indians. 

 

Good luck with that.

A new story that came out a couple days ago is that they are trying to attract East Africans to make up for the drop in Western Tourists.  <deleted>?!?!

[HampiK]

1 hour ago, SteveK said:

It just seems weird that the Thai authorities are paranoid that people are going to fly in from Western countries to earn a complete pittance working in a bar, restaurant, or picking rice on a farm in Isaan, when an 8 hour shift in McDonalds in the UK will get you almost 3000 baht A DAY.

 

And the countless reports of IOs denying entry to people who have ample cash on them and a lot more in their current accounts would suggest that they are just being told to deny as many people as possible! They want two-week tourists only, everyone else is seen as vermin as must be denied entry or removed ASAP.

It's not weird at all! There are so many examples of people like and really want to work in Thailand.

There are for sure some who really make a good salary, but there are also a lot who really make a little income but they don't care, as long they can stay in Thailand and enjoy the Thai style of life...

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Caldera said:

@dtag Out of curiosity, if you don't mind, how did Cambodian immigration handle your return after you had been denied entry to Thailand? Did they cancel your exit stamp, or did you need to buy a new visa on arrival and got a fresh entry stamp? Any "extra payment" for letting you back in under those circumstances?

Very good question. Some time back a UK guy had a thread. He was obtaining setv back to back. Obtained last one Saigon. Denied entry DM. Flown back to Saigon. Refused entry even though UK are visa exempt Vietnam. Then sent to UK. 

They do not cancel exit stamp. 

[Tayaout]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Very good question. Some time back a UK guy had a thread. He was obtaining setv back to back. Obtained last one Saigon. Denied entry DM. Flown back to Saigon. Refused entry even though UK are visa exempt Vietnam. Then sent to UK. 

They do not cancel exit stamp. 

Happened to me but was sent back to Laos and they cancelled my exit stamp. 

[acenase]

1 hour ago, SteveK said:

It just seems weird that the Thai authorities are paranoid that people are going to fly in from Western countries to earn a complete pittance working in a bar, restaurant, or picking rice on a farm in Isaan, when an 8 hour shift in McDonalds in the UK will get you almost 3000 baht A DAY.

 

When I went to rooftop bars such as Lebua State Tower and Red Sky at Central World and also this restaurant at EmQuartier called Cocette. I saw Farang bartenders and Farang waiters and the first thing I thought to myself was "How is it possible?" Farangs can work as waiters in Thailand? Or maybe that's part of illegal working. I thought those type of service jobs were reserved only for Thai people.  Those are expensive restaurants so I'm sure they don't just get paid pittance there. Especially if other expats who go there leave a big tip for his service.

Edited July 8, 2019 by acenase