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BANGKOK 23 July 2019 22:43
josephbloggs

BTS Onnut Slowness

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6 hours ago, Almer said:

You wouldn't want jumping the rail would you bad enough on terra fitma  

 

indeed, but the BTS, in common with most other metros has de-rail containment. Those concrete structures just outside the running rail (which are convenient for mounting the 3rd rail) are there to prevent a de-railed bogie from running too far off line.

 

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On 7/6/2019 at 11:14 AM, josephbloggs said:

Nah it's not that.  Always exactly the same place, at all times of day, on all trains.  

I travel between Phra Khanong and On Nut via BTS 5 or 6 times a week and have never experienced the slow-down you describe except during a rainstorm or as another poster mentioned, rush hour interval spacing.

I may be wrong but I believe the trains used by the BTS are integrated units and that adding additional cars is technically very difficult, not like chains of streetcars or trolleys.  They are putting new trains in service on the Sukhumvit line.  I rode in one just a few days ago that was obviously brand new, had a section with no seats for more standing room and a much clearer and easy to read electronic route map above the doors.

The issue of adding more cars to trains is more complex than many seem to believe.  The passenger platforms at most stations are overloaded as it is, especially when trains from both directions arrive simultaneously.  Siam especially is downright dangerous with overcrowding on the downward escalators. I have long feared a tragedy there someday.  Adding more cars will make the congestion much worse and there is little that can be done to reconfigure the platforms without major construction disruptions.

Nobody anticipated the exponential growth of passenger usage of the BTS.  When I first came to Bangkok, one year after the BTS opened, trains were three cars and one could always get a seat, no matter what stop you boarded. The average Thai would never be able to afford it was the assumption. The economy improved, wages went up, thousands of residential units were built within walking distance and today's overwhelming ridership is the result.

I come from Boston in the US where the subway system is the oldest in the nation and runs at a $100 million deficit with derailments and service outages a weekly event. The stations are dingy and dirty and many, like Bangkok do not provide escalators.  The elevators installed over the last 20 years for handicapped use are more often out of order.  New York City is even worse on a grand scale.

Urban transit systems in highly populated and spread out cities is one of those examples of if you build it, people will come, and the more you build it, the more people come and the more difficult it becomes to provide a high level of service.  Though the BTS is not above criticism and has multiple annoyances (locked elevators!!), I for one believe they do a pretty good job with what they have.  Delays are surprisingly few and train intervals rarely out of sync, unlike Boston and other cities where you never know if the next train will be three or thirty minutes.

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I Agree with the op, I come from Chicago in the U.S. During rush hour periods they add more cars to the trains to eleviate congestion. I agree the platforms are made for 6 rail cars, why can't the BTS just add more cars as they do in other cities. It doesn't cost any more to run 6 cars as it does to run 4

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1 hour ago, Blue bruce said:

I Agree with the op, I come from Chicago in the U.S. During rush hour periods they add more cars to the trains to eleviate congestion. I agree the platforms are made for 6 rail cars, why can't the BTS just add more cars as they do in other cities. It doesn't cost any more to run 6 cars as it does to run 4

But it costs a lot to buy them.

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2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

But it costs a lot to buy them.

The current 'rolling stock' is able to manage 2 additional cars. Also check out what Sala Dang station looks like as of yesterday

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_10.jpg

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UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_12.jpg

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 12:14 AM, josephbloggs said:

Seeing as we have a few posters with excellent knowledge of the BTS I would like to ask this question:

 

For the last few days the trains running in to town slow down to a crawl between Onnut and Phrakhanong.  They creep along at maybe 5mph between stations at the point where the track takes a slight bend to follow Sukhumvit and go over the khlong, for (I'm guessing) maybe 300-400 metres.  It doesn't do this in the other direction - they stay normal speed.

 

Why?

I've noticed that too, lately, very odd.

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 12:49 AM, emptypockets said:

Track condition? They do deteriorate.

Electrical loading on the system? It needs maintenance too, maybe a tranny offline for repairs?

I guess it could be for a number of reasons. perhaps any issues have been sorted out and the system is back to normal now.

Ask Crossy he plays with train sets and may be able to give some insight.

"...perhaps any issues have been sorted out and the system is back to normal now".

It wasn't back to normal yesterday at 2.15pm

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On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 1:53 PM, dddave said:

I travel between Phra Khanong and On Nut via BTS 5 or 6 times a week and have never experienced the slow-down you describe except during a rainstorm or as another poster mentioned, rush hour interval spacing.

The slow-down is in the other direction, between Onnut and Phra Khanong.  It has been happening daily and was still happening yesterday afternoon.

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5 hours ago, Blue bruce said:

I Agree with the op, I come from Chicago in the U.S. During rush hour periods they add more cars to the trains to eleviate congestion. I agree the platforms are made for 6 rail cars, why can't the BTS just add more cars as they do in other cities. It doesn't cost any more to run 6 cars as it does to run 4

"It doesn't cost any more to run 6 cars as it does to run 4"

Oh yes, it does, it costs a lot more!  Capital expenditure, depreciation, wear and tear, maintenance, electricity consumption etc. Running nearly empty carriages at some times, as would be the case because, regardless of Thaivisa posters' frequent comments, the BTS is not crammed full at all times, is a waste of money.

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43 minutes ago, Jimdandy said:

The current 'rolling stock' is able to manage 2 additional cars. Also check out what Sala Dang station looks like as of yesterday

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_10.jpg

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_5.jpg

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_12.jpg

What are we supposed to be checking out?

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3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

"It doesn't cost any more to run 6 cars as it does to run 4"

Oh yes, it does, it costs a lot more!  Capital expenditure, depreciation, wear and tear, maintenance, electricity consumption etc. Running nearly empty carriages at some times, as would be the case because, regardless of Thaivisa posters' frequent comments, the BTS is not crammed full at all times, is a waste of money.

Not a waste if you do it during high peak hours. The escalators don't stay both sides one way all day, only during high peak hours. Why not add the cars during the same hours? During peak times it's the sardine and bacteria iron horse. The system is a point to point, not a loop, so it's easy to get to the end of the line and change cars quickly and efficiently. There's hardly a train with open seating, not just one or two here and there during those hours.

 

If BKK cannot afford to run an efficient system then maybe they should consider a study to figure out how cities that do, have done it successfully for years.

 

There are ways the system can absorb the costs. How much does all that electronic advertising costs? When's the last time the system considered raising the rates for companies to advertise which will generate more revenue to absorb costs. Wear and tear you say?  If the city is buying trains that breakdown every six months maybe I should consider buying a smog mask and ride those old busses that seem beyond repair but still keep right on rolling.

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3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

What are we supposed to be checking out?

Safety gates that extend to the end of the platform (6 cars) beyond a 4 car capacity. 

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3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

People that complain about the BTS system to me are not experienced travelers, clueless, or just plain complainers.

Ever go to Hong Kong, or Singapore, or Tokyo on their transport systems?

Yes I have. BKK is a yet of those places. The Sukhumvit Line is being extended beyond Mochit-Great! but that's not enough. One issue is poor urban planning. When the system was build there was no realistic urban planning in terms of growth in density of population considered. Have you noticed how almost every hole in the ground along the various train lines there is a super structure going up, but now talk about traffic density solutions? BKK is a yet.

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BTW about 10 years ago this conversation would have been a moot point. And you mean to tell me planners did not see this coming!!!???

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