koolaukid Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 I have a bad situation and would like some advice how to remedy. I live in an apartment in Bangkok. Immigration has refused my visa extension because the landlord has not filed a TM30. Contacted the landlord but they refuse to provide the documentation necessary to file a TM30 because they are concerned they may be subject to fines and taxes. Current visa expires July 27. What are my options to get the landlord to file a TM30? Also, if I need to leave early, the landlord will keep the apartment deposit. Suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 You could try to do the TM30 yourself as the possessor of your residence. Do you have a rental agreement? Or anything else you are living in the apartment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolaukid Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 I have a rental agreement as well as a hard copy of our conversation on Line where the agent (acting as a go between) has refused to provide necessary documentation and has invited me to move out early. Immigration has told me we need a copy of their ID or House Registration for the TM30. Those are the documents they refuse to provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ThomasThBKK Posted July 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2019 Report him to the immigration office, apparently they love visiting non reporting landlords in person. 10 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolaukid Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 I'll go to Immigration tomorrow to try to self file the TM30. Failing that I'll be reporting the landlord. I don't have much time either way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, koolaukid said: I'll go to Immigration tomorrow to try to self file the TM30. Failing that I'll be reporting the landlord. I don't have much time either way. Since time is issue....just file tm30 as ubonjoe outlined in person at immigration. You do this as "possessor". You will need a lease. Your identity page pp. Copy last entry stamp to los. I would also copy tm6 and reentry permit if you have one. From reports you may be fined 800baht so have it with you. File it first same visit as doing the extension. Good luck. Edited July 9, 2019 by DrJack54 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jackdd Posted July 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) Do you live in an apartment (the whole building is owned by one company) or a condo (the units are owned by individual owners)? If it's an apartment i think you can't submit your own TM30, because you are not the possessor of the whole house, you just inhabit one room of many rooms in the house and your room is not really seperated from the other rooms (all share the same house number and there is only one house book) A condo unit is like a house (each unit has an own house number and house book), so in this case as a tenant you are the possessor. But i don't know if immigration actually makes a difference. With such an uncooperative owner i would notify the police of their unlawful behaviour and also the revenue department, so that they can make sure the owner actually pays taxes on the rental income. To solve your problem you could just check in at any hotel, the day before you go to get your extension, which does a TM30 online for you. If you go to get your extension just use this address, then immigration will have the TM30 for you in their system. Edited July 9, 2019 by jackdd 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, jackdd said: Do you live in an apartment (the whole building is owned by one company) or a condo (the units are owned by individual owners)? If it's an apartment i think you can't submit your own TM30, because you are not the possessor of the whole house, you just inhabit one room of many rooms in the house and your room is not really seperated from the other rooms (all share the same house number and there is only one house book) A condo unit is like a house (each unit has an own house number and house book), so in this case as a tenant you are the possessor. But i don't know if immigration actually makes a difference. With such an uncooperative owner i would notify the police of their unlawful behaviour and also the revenue department, so that they can make sure the owner actually pays taxes on the rental income. He can do it as possessor. I don't support your take on his ability to file his own tm30. Also causing conflict with owner/manager will not end up well. The op can pursue that path but that will in turn lead to problems ongoing and he would most likely feel a need to move. Sometimes best to walk around a problem. The easy route. Also sounds like he needs to do tm30 for imminent extension. Time the enemy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketrichard Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 51 minutes ago, DrJack54 said: Since time is issue....just file tm30 as ubonjoe outlined in person at immigration. You do this as "possessor". You will need a lease. Your identity page pp. Copy last entry stamp to los. I would also copy tm6 and reentry permit if you have one. From reports you may be fined 800baht so have it with you. File it first same visit as doing the extension. Good luck. your also going to need a signed copy of ur landlords id card & House paper> seems he does not want pay tax on ur rent.. I feel this might start happening more and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, phuketrichard said: your also going to need a signed copy of ur landlords id card & House paper> seems he does not want pay tax on ur rent.. I feel this might start happening more and more You sure about needing landlord id and house paper. Because they were not included in couple of reports I have read on TVF. Perhaps a member might be along to list what they included for tm30 doing as possessor having done it successfully. The two sections requiring name etc is the same person. Often the first section would be owner the second section name tenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, koolaukid said: I have a rental agreement as well as a hard copy of our conversation on Line where the agent (acting as a go between) has refused to provide necessary documentation and has invited me to move out early. Immigration has told me we need a copy of their ID or House Registration for the TM30. Those are the documents they refuse to provide. You could try, I wouldn’t bother, reporting yourself but it’s unlikely to work as they specifically want the Owner/landlord to complete the form. CW seem to be enforcing the law based on its intention which is clearly for a third party to confirm your arrival/stay. If you can’t get CW to accept a report from you, and your landlord won’t budge, I’m afraid you’re out of options and will need to exit and re-enter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasThBKK Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Well CW accepted mine and may others report as a possessor, but that was some weeks ago so who knows what changed. I would do it via postal service or send a messenger there and then see if it worked. Passport, Visa, Visa stamp, rental contract, tm30 form - copies of all that, signed. To the tm30 division, line messenger works. Postal service takes forever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said: Well CW accepted mine and may others report as a possessor, but that was some weeks ago so who knows what changed. I would do it via postal service or send a messenger there and then see if it worked. Passport, Visa, Visa stamp, rental contract, tm30 form - copies of all that, signed. To the tm30 division, line messenger works. Postal service takes forever... I will also be doing it by mail and including photocopies I listed in my first thread. That post was based on reports of doing exactly that and receiving receipt, all be it 3 weeks later. The op does not have that time. Wondering if anyone has gone straight to B line (?) trying to file as possessor then with receipt obtain L ticket for extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said: Well CW accepted mine and may others report as a possessor, but that was some weeks ago so who knows what changed. I would do it via postal service or send a messenger there and then see if it worked. Passport, Visa, Visa stamp, rental contract, tm30 form - copies of all that, signed. To the tm30 division, line messenger works. Postal service takes forever... Submitting the the TM.30 as possessor is likely to be accepted, but that isn’t the issue. When applying for an extension of stay they seem to be wanting a TM.30 completed by the owner, even if one was completed by someone else when you moved in. The reason for the increasing enforcement of TM.30’s stems from security risks, which is why they want the owner to confirm the applicant actually lives at the address given. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geisha Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Move into a cheap hotel for a few days, do your extension , give a months notice, and move somewhere with an honest landlord. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, elviajero said: Submitting the the TM.30 as possessor is likely to be accepted, but that isn’t the issue. When applying for an extension of stay they seem to be wanting a TM.30 completed by the owner, even if one was completed by someone else when you moved in. The reason for the increasing enforcement of TM.30’s stems from security risks, which is why they want the owner to confirm the applicant actually lives at the address given. ? So your saying I can do a tm30 tomorrow as possessor (pay fine if required) obtain a receipt, then a week later I return for annual extension they want a tm30 completed by owner and the receipt I have is useless?? Where you file tm30 is separate from extension area. They either accept tm30 as possessor in person at CW or they do not. Which one? Edited July 9, 2019 by DrJack54 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 I'd change my landlord. No reason to give him aid and comfort in breaking the law to the OP's detriment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BestB Posted July 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2019 Sorry perhaps a silly question but should rental agreement not include owner ID and copy of tabian Baan to confirm ownership of the property ? All my rentals always has owner ID and TB signed by the owner . If someone refuses to attach it to the agreement I refuse to lease it as I have no idea to verify i am renting from the actual owner 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasThBKK Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, DrJack54 said: I will also be doing it by mail and including photocopies I listed in my first thread. That post was based on reports of doing exactly that and receiving receipt, all be it 3 weeks later. The op does not have that time. Wondering if anyone has gone straight to B line (?) trying to file as possessor then with receipt obtain L ticket for extension. Hence why i said messenger, my friend did one using the line man, got receipt back 4 hours later from CW. But sure you should be able to do that yourself at the same day you go for extension too - but there's always the risk of an IO just making shit up, because thailand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 29 minutes ago, DrJack54 said: ? So your saying I can do a tm30 tomorrow as possessor (pay fine if required) obtain a receipt, then a week later I return for annual extension they want a tm30 completed by owner and the receipt I have is useless?? Where you file tm30 is separate from extension area. They either accept tm30 as possessor in person at CW or they do not. Which one? Yes I believe that is entirely possible. It’s still too early to know what CW want, when and by whom. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Caldera Posted July 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 hours ago, elviajero said: The reason for the increasing enforcement of TM.30’s stems from security risks Thanks for pointing that out. I thought they just need additional revenue in fines. I didn't realize they have the security of the kingdom in mind, I will sleep better now. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 hours ago, elviajero said: Yes I believe that is entirely possible. It’s still too early to know what CW want, when and by whom. Your first post had such confidence. Now this rubbish. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 It seems that we are now at the stage where foreigners renting property should demand a copy of the owner's Thai ID before signing a lease, and this should be told to an agent as well. No documents for a TM30 = no tenant = no money for owner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Leaver said: It seems that we are now at the stage where foreigners renting property should demand a copy of the owner's Thai ID before signing a lease, and this should be told to an agent as well. No documents for a TM30 = no tenant = no money for owner. That's possible. However it assumes imm has connection to revenue gov office. My guess its an imm driven thing at CW at least. Side issue is very nice kickback. Many reports of 800baht fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onera1961 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, BestB said: Sorry perhaps a silly question but should rental agreement not include owner ID and copy of tabian Baan to confirm ownership of the property ? All my rentals always has owner ID and TB signed by the owner . If someone refuses to attach it to the agreement I refuse to lease it as I have no idea to verify i am renting from the actual owner All rental contracts have owner ID signed by the owner. But that is not a guarantee that the place belongs to the person who claimed it to be the owner. I generally verify the owner with the condo office. Edited July 9, 2019 by onera1961 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeePeeMai Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 hours ago, BestB said: Sorry perhaps a silly question but should rental agreement not include owner ID and copy of tabian Baan to confirm ownership of the property ? All my rentals always has owner ID and TB signed by the owner . If someone refuses to attach it to the agreement I refuse to lease it as I have no idea to verify i am renting from the actual owner Yes this has been my experience renting a house (not a condo). A signed lease agreement with a copy of the house owner's ID and Tabian Ban or a TM30 is not possible. Absolutely no self reporting (as possessor) has been my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) Solutions: 1. Hotel 1 night that does report, and proof of that from them. 400-800 baht per night something. 2. Thai friend that is willing to help report you at his address. 3. Agent. 4. Self filing as possessor if that works. Explain to Immigration that the "owner just does not want to do it". And see what their response is. Edited July 9, 2019 by lkv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said: Yes this has been my experience renting a house (not a condo). A signed lease agreement with a copy of the house owner's ID and Tabian Ban or a TM30 is not possible. Absolutely no self reporting (as possessor) has been my experience. Can you reword that. Makes zero sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeePeeMai Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just now, DrJack54 said: Can you reword that. Makes zero sense. yea sure - Lease agreement, copy of landlord's Thai ID and a copy of landlord's House Book (Tabian ban) are all needed for a TM30 report (at my local Immigration Office). Missing one or the other will result in a "mai dai" ... makes sense to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, lkv said: Solutions: 1. Hotel 1 night that does report, and proof of that from them. 400-800 baht per night something. 2. Thai friend that is willing to help report you at his address. 3. Agent. 4. Self filing as possessor if that works. Why include #4 ...."if that works" Mean works some imm office or you not sure? The OP is shortly applying for extension. Re #1 Think he needs proof of where he lives. Meaning lease or similar. Hotel booking won't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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