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Thailand facing its worst dengue outbreak in half a decade


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On 7/12/2019 at 9:44 PM, wilcopops said:

All this pseudo-science has categorically been shown to be ineffective quackery.

There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine....if its proven tobe effective its called "medicine".

By whom the FDA ? The FDA suppress anything that will take money out of the big pharma's profits and are only too happy to club the little guys with a very big stick. Unless you've got million of dollars you don't stand a cat in hells chance of getting it approved by the FDA, even though it's been approved by other countries. It's very similar to the Boeing fiasco where the FAA were allowing Boeing to 'self certify' and look where that got them! 

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On 12 July, 2019 at 9:44 PM, wilcopops said:

All this pseudo-science has categorically been shown to be ineffective quackery.

There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine....if its proven tobe effective its called "medicine".

Pseudo science?  I was writing from personal experience.  I am not your research assistant but there are a few peer reviewed  scientific papers you can read available on the internet, by doctors and microbiologists, one of which documents  a study in Delhi on live subjects, all of whom recovered.  It is a lengthy paper and contains details of each patients blood work over the treatment period.  Many people known to me have got rid of dengue using papaya leaf extract they made themselves - are you calling them liars too?  Are you calling me a liar?  I wrote this post, which took me a while, for the single purpose of helping people who might not know about this, and possibly save lives.  A little disingenuous of you to call it pseudo science.  I suppose you might not be aware of the CDC and FDA in America (and other bodies similar in Europe) whose people enjoy what id basically a revolving door with the big pharma corporations, and perhaps you are aware that a natural (i.e. plant based) compound cannot be patented - hence no profit for the Pharma Corp.  And then, if you do try to bring a new medicine to the market, you are forced to carry out trials that can cost several millions. The whole process ensures the continuity of the big corporations.

 

The term 'alternative medicine' is in use today as a push-back against 'orthodox medicine' which you can say is pharmaceutically based.  Both terms are unsound and wrong.  The Alternative terms was likely coined by Big Pharma to discredit traditional forms of medicine like herbalism, traditional Chinese medicine and ayurveda.  In actual fact Pharmaceutically based medicines are really the 'alternative' since Pharma corps have been trying to make the use of traditional systems illegal since the Flexner Report in 1913.  Don't forget the human race has been around for 100s of thousands of years.  Whatever did we do before Big Pharma - however has the human race survived without them?

 

So in answer to your second question, well, many of these traditionally used medicines that are plant and also mineral based have proven to be effective over previous centuries of use, that is already a given, and yes, it can be called medicine - as that is what it is.  After all, what do you think 'alternative medicine' was called 150 years ago - Just Medicine!  Just like organic food back then was simply called 'Food'.  But at the end of the day the choice is yours.  But please do not knock something you have no knowledge of - for that, after all is Pseudo Science.

 

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On 12 July, 2019 at 11:21 AM, cheshiremusicman said:


Thanks Frotting for a very interesting post. I don't know if you have ever come across the use of the Sadao (I think that is the correct spelling here in Thailand)  or Neem tree in India and elsewhere for treating colonic problems like diverticulitis, as very few people I know have come across it. I was diagnosed with this problem after having a barium concoction injected and special x-ray tests when I was in my early 50's and was told by the specialist that there was no 'cure' for this and the probable outcome would be that I would end up having part of my colon removed (not a very pleasing thought). I did a lot of research and came across a vague reference to the use of the 'Neem tree' in treating this problem along with other colonic problems. I was able to buy neem capsules from a company in south Wales at ..................Edited to save space........

And thanks for your reply also.  I do not post much, since 2008 here, only if I feel it relevant, and I believe this topic is; and more people need to be made aware that there are cures for most things out there if you know about them.  Knowledge that has been suppressed for the last 100 years or so.  After all, healthy people do not make profits for the medical establishment or pharma corporations.

 

Anyway, I know of some properties of Neem (sadao) but your experience was new to me, so thanks for sharing that.  Neem comes from the Ayurvedic system and is well documented in the Indian texts.  Another incredible plant from that system is Ashwaganda, which can be used for different kinds of cognitive impairment, along with herbs like Rhodeola.  One of my favourites for everyday use for general wellbeing is the extract from the fruit of the Noni plant (Morinda Citrifolia) which grows everywhere in Thailand - this can help with a whole rake of conditions.  I make it here.  Has to be fermented for 3 months in the sun then pressed and sieved.  Tastes like s**t but not as bad as papaya leaf.

 

If you are interested you could look into the uses for these medicinal mushrooms, some of which are available in Thailand:

 

Turkey Tail (Tramestes Versicolour) - grows in some places.

Lion's Mane - grows in the North and Northeast

Cordyceps - is being grown by Chiangmai University and privately in CM Province

Ling Zhi - can be bought in Macro

Chaga - grows in forests in Russia but available in caps by mail order

 

Google Paul Stamets - a top Mycologist, he has scientific data on many more medicinal mushrooms.

 

I am amazed you found a Doctor back home who listened and took onboard what you said and even passed it on to other patients.  This man is a REAL doctor, in the spirit of Hippocrates.  Not many of those about today.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

QED - you don't even realise what you've just said!

 

...And a clicheed plea to antiquity too.

And your point is exactly?  By the way. are you trolling?  Obviously you have no knowledge to share that could help others so you try (and fail) to trash information written by people who submit from their own experience to help.  Yep, a real keyboard warrior.  Maybe that karma might play a part here and you might find yourself with Dengue.  Good luck with that.

 

And I do realise what I have said.  What I said was myself and many others known to me have used papaya extract to get rid of dengue with no side effects and we were all fine within 24 hours.  What don't you understand about that?  I think it is patently clear.  What people have to decide for themselves is if I am telling the truth.  Since there is no cure for dengue, except to drink fluids and rest - and see if you have the bad strain that kills, what have you got to lose? That is exactly what I did - I tried it out on myself and it worked, because mainstream medicine had nothing to offer.  And I was more than surprised at how effective it was.

 

I have considered the possibility that you might have a dog in this fight.  It could be.  Your reply came too quickly, so you are sat at your keyboard waiting to trash anything that appears.  Do get a life! The internet is full of trolls on the payroll of people with a vested interest. If you are one of these, you can pass on to your sponsors that their day is nearly over.  Some of us are taking back our power and this information is now growing exponentially.

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2 minutes ago, Frotting said:

And your point is exactly?  By the way. are you trolling?  Obviously you have no knowledge to share that could help others so you try (and fail) to trash information written by people who submit from their own experience to help.  Yep, a real keyboard warrior.  Maybe that karma might play a part here and you might find yourself with Dengue.  Good luck with that.

Frotting, you have posted some good information. And I, for one, will use the natural remedy if I have to.

 

If the poster wants to trash your information; so be it. You don't have to respond. If wilcopops doesn't appreciate the value of the natural garden around us; that's up to him.

 

Stick with turning out good, sound information. 

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56 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Frotting, you have posted some good information. And I, for one, will use the natural remedy if I have to.

 

If the poster wants to trash your information; so be it. You don't have to respond. If wilcopops doesn't appreciate the value of the natural garden around us; that's up to him.

 

Stick with turning out good, sound information. 

Yes, you are right, and I apologise for being goaded so easily.  Dengue is not very nice as I can vouch for, but this remedy actually works, which is why I took the trouble to write about it.  I am not selling anything!  It seems to me there are a few of you who are writing here that have other experiences with plant remedies that work, and it is right that we should share from our experiences, after all it costs nothing to do this, and sometimes saving a life only requires a minute of your attention and the passing on of information.

 

By the way Owl, I hope you never have to use the concoction as it tastes absolutely disgusting, but better than being ill.

 

Some of the other posters here have provided good information about protection and keeping down the mosquitos, which is not easy.  But at least I know now that if I get it again, or another strain, then I do not have to fear for my life; and that is a very liberating thing I can tell you.

 

Your health Sir.

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On 7/11/2019 at 7:23 AM, masuk said:

Singapore handles mosquito breeding sites with the use of 'mosquito police'.  they check apartments, houses, everywhere for containers of water lying around or pot plants and even some plants which hold water.

It rests with every householder to keep their yards and garden clean.  My Thai landlady used 'mosquito sand' which has something in it which prevents eggs from hatching.  This went in all her pot plant bowls and small ponds, and we never saw a mozzie.  

A tropical strength roll-on bug repellant kept the beasties off my arms and legs at night.  "Aerogard" is my favourite.

I've seen off at Tesco's. In the states you could buy a poison that you would put in standing water it would kill the larvae

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i'm told government hospitals have volunteers who go around spreading the "Mosquito sand" in standing water. I remember a village chairman also held supplies of this sand and would hand it out to villagers.

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9 hours ago, Frotting said:

And thanks for your reply also.  I do not post much, since 2008 here, only if I feel it relevant, and I believe this topic is; and more people need to be made aware that there are cures for most things out there if you know about them.  Knowledge that has been suppressed for the last 100 years or so.  After all, healthy people do not make profits for the medical establishment or pharma corporations.

 

Anyway, I know of some properties of Neem (sadao) but your experience was new to me, so thanks for sharing that.  Neem comes from the Ayurvedic system and is well documented in the Indian texts.  Another incredible plant from that system is Ashwaganda, which can be used for different kinds of cognitive impairment, along with herbs like Rhodeola.  One of my favourites for everyday use for general wellbeing is the extract from the fruit of the Noni plant (Morinda Citrifolia) which grows everywhere in Thailand - this can help with a whole rake of conditions.  I make it here.  Has to be fermented for 3 months in the sun then pressed and sieved.  Tastes like s**t but not as bad as papaya leaf.

 

If you are interested you could look into the uses for these medicinal mushrooms, some of which are available in Thailand:

 

Turkey Tail (Tramestes Versicolour) - grows in some places.

Lion's Mane - grows in the North and Northeast

Cordyceps - is being grown by Chiangmai University and privately in CM Province

Ling Zhi - can be bought in Macro

Chaga - grows in forests in Russia but available in caps by mail order

 

Google Paul Stamets - a top Mycologist, he has scientific data on many more medicinal mushrooms.

 

I am amazed you found a Doctor back home who listened and took onboard what you said and even passed it on to other patients.  This man is a REAL doctor, in the spirit of Hippocrates.  Not many of those about today.

 

 

You are at best very gullible at worst your views are downright dangerous

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13 hours ago, Frotting said:

 

 

If you are interested you could look into the uses for these medicinal mushrooms, some of which are available in Thailand:

 

Turkey Tail (Tramestes Versicolour) - grows in some places.

Lion's Mane - grows in the North and Northeast

Cordyceps - is being grown by Chiangmai University and privately in CM Province

Ling Zhi - can be bought in Macro

Chaga - grows in forests in Russia but available in caps by mail order

 

Google Paul Stamets - a top Mycologist, he has scientific data on many more medicinal mushrooms.

 

 

 

Thanks again Frotting for the tips.

 

The only three that I was aware of, that have medicinal value are: Shiitake, Maitake, and Reishi. These mushrooms have a history of medicinal use for hndreds of years in Asia. Research has indicated mushrooms have possible anti-cancer, antiviral, anti-inflammatory and liver protective activities.

 

I prepare a Reishi drink every few days (will be doing some this morning). After harvesting the mushroom, I gradually snip pieces off for boiling. I keep the earlier snippets in the bowl too. So by the time the Reishi is exhausted, I've had between 6 and 10 boilings. I boil outside on a charcoal unit, and keep up the boil for 3/4 hours.

 

I only get about 2/3 litres at one boiling, and I drink a 'water bottle amount' every day. So it only lasts 3/4 days.

 

It can be very bitter to taste; but I'm used to that now and like it.

 

I will research the other mushrooms you recommend, Frotting.

 

 

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13 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Thanks again Frotting for the tips.

 

The only three that I was aware of, that have medicinal value are: Shiitake, Maitake, and Reishi. These mushrooms have a history of medicinal use for hndreds of years in Asia. Research has indicated mushrooms have possible anti-cancer, antiviral, anti-inflammatory and liver protective activities.

 

I prepare a Reishi drink every few days (will be doing some this morning). After harvesting the mushroom, I gradually snip pieces off for boiling. I keep the earlier snippets in the bowl too. So by the time the Reishi is exhausted, I've had between 6 and 10 boilings. I boil outside on a charcoal unit, and keep up the boil for 3/4 hours.

 

I only get about 2/3 litres at one boiling, and I drink a 'water bottle amount' every day. So it only lasts 3/4 days.

 

It can be very bitter to taste; but I'm used to that now and like it.

 

I will research the other mushrooms you recommend, Frotting.

 

 

No problem.  Think this thread is all but dead now, but there are many more medicinal fungi too many to mention.  I think you have to be careful about temperature when making a tea.  Also some of the constituents, like the beta glucans for example are not water soluble, which is why many make a tincture, using alcohol to extract those parts then recombining with the water soluble part.  There is a lot of information out there, as I said, Paul Stamets is good and also a young guy called Adam Haritan, who has a website (google him).  The Cordyceps is probably the most powerful and has anti-tumor properties, but it is really expensive, costs about 1 million baht for a kilo dried.  Thankfully you don't need much.  It is quite rare but CM Uni are growing it now under lab conditions - it needs to be cool like about 12 degrees Celcius to grow.  Lion's mane is used as a food by the hill tribes and has the added benefit of producing 'Nerve growth hormone' in humans, which has been used to good effect with cognitive disorders.  There is some research available you can read about regeneration of nerve ganglia in rats, using Lion's Mane.  It is on sale in Chiangmai but I have not seen it elsewhere.

 

Incidentally I see the troll is still around... called me gullible!! really? Well, I have to say that having a 1st in Physics and some medical training also, and more importantly personal experience of natural medicines curing people whom I know and myself included; I have actually first hand knowledge of these things, which does not in any way rest on any belief system.  I do not believe - I know, from personal experience.  I share information I may have freely.  It is up to the recipient to determine for themselves.  To not look into it further, and just trash it without further study I would say is very un-scientific.  And about scientific method - well if anyone is interested there are many papers written by bona fide scientists of many disciplines, all peer reviewed and referenced (using the scientific method).  You just have to be interested enough to find the research.  It is there.  I urge people to go and look into these things and satisfy yourselves of their validity.

 

Yes, the Troll, rather than engage in educated debate, resorts to personal attacks, even calling me 'dangerous'.  Perhaps he lacks the IQ to read scientific papers and do his own research.

 

Anyway Owl, nice conversing with you, there's a lot of things out there to learn and thankfully the information is free.  Seems like you have been doing some research of your own, which I hope will help you and yours ultimately.

 

Cheers

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On 14 July, 2019 at 7:16 PM, owl sees all said:

Frotting, you have posted some good information. And I, for one, will use the natural remedy if I have to.

 

If the poster wants to trash your information; so be it. You don't have to respond. If wilcopops doesn't appreciate the value of the natural garden around us; that's up to him.

 

Stick with turning out good, sound information. 

Owl.  This is for you.  I was trawling through my research about medicinal mushrooms and found a précis I wrote several years ago.  I will paste it here, but I am not sure this TV will allow such a lot of words but here goes.  You can have a look into all of them - by no means exhaustive, but at least it is a start for your research...

 

1. LION'S MANE MUSHROOM

A powerful and yet strange looking edible mushroom found in North America, Europe and Asia growing on hardwood trees, particularly Beech (Lat: Hericium Erinaceus) (Chinese: Hou Tou Gu). Said to be the best of the medicinal mushrooms for the brain and nervous system. Contains glucoxylan, beta gulcans, four polysaccharides and polypeptides that enhance the immune system. It contains hericenones, erinacines, heteroglucans and heterooxylans that help stimulate the production of Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) in humans. It is also very high in anti-oxidants. Lion's Mane has been used for epilepsy, seizures and degenerative nerve conditions such as Parkinson's Disease. It can improve memory and cognitive function. The mushroom is immunomodulatory and decreases tumour growth. It promotes cardiovascular health.

 

2. CORDYCEPS

The most powerful of medicinal mushrooms is the Cordyceps (Lat: Cordyceps Sinensis) (Chinese: Dong Chong Xia Cao). Featured in traditional Chinese medicine for many centuries and now becomeing known about in the West. Originally only found in Sechuan and parts of the Himalayas, now cultivated in many parts of the world. It is expensive, costing around $350 - $500 for 100 grams of dried mushroom. Cordyceps contain bioactive compounds including beta glucans, cordycepyn, galactomannan, adenosine, polysaccharides and amino acids. It inhibits tumor cell growth, modulates immune response, suppresses viral replication, enhances hepatic energy and has vaso-relaxant properties. It is used in natural cancer treatments, as an anti-ageing supplement, for diabetes, heart disease and also to improve cognitive ability.

3. SNOW FUNGUS/TREMELLA MUSHROOM

A quite beautiful edible and medicinal mushroom found growing on decaying logs in the forests of Asia and other warm climates worldwide (Lat: Tremella fuciformis) (Chinese: Bai Mu Er). Used in traditional Chinese medicine for over 2,000 years. Contains the highest Vitamin D of any known food. Tremella is rich in polysaccharides and superoxide dismutase (SOD) like many other medicinal mushrooms. It increases the production of microphages in the immune system and levels of interferon and interleukin-2. It stimulates the immune system and fights infection. It increases white blood cell count in people undergoing chemotherapy. Tremella lowers LDLs and regulates cholesterol levels. It is anti-ageing, anti-cancer and anti-hypertensive. It is used to improve memory impairment, help learning and promote longevity. Tremella beneficialy affects the skin by naturally increasing water content and giving a youthful appearance. It can also accelerate wound healing.

4. AGARIKON MUSHROOM

A large, hard, woody fungus found growing on hardwood trees mostly in North America(Lat: Fomitopsis Officinalis) (Chinese: Ku Bai Ti). Contains beta-glucans, Agaricin, triterpinoids and natural antibiotics. Has been used to treat tuberculosis. An immune system builder with anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, anti-viral and anti-bacterial properties.

5. MAITAKE MUSHROOM

An edible mushroom used in Asian cooking that grows on hardwood trees in Europe and Asia (Lat: Grifola Frondosa) (Chinese: Hui Shu Hua). Has anti-cancer, anti-hypertensive and anti-cancer properties. Inhibits growth of tumor and helps in diabetes due to its ability to regulate blood sugars and cholesterols.

6. REISHI MUSHROOM

Sometimes used in Asian cooking but can have a bitter taste (Lat: Ganoderma Lucidum) (Chinese: Ling Zhi). Contains many adaptogenic compounds and also a powerful source of antioxidants. Contains beta-glucans, sterols and immune modulators. Increases NK cells and generally enhances immune response. Defends against cancer and auto-immune disease. Can assist with heart disease, diabetes, liver disease, hypertension and viral infections.

7. TURKEY TAIL

An attractive hard mushroom growing in hardwood forests throughout the world (Lat: Trametes Versicolour)(Chinese: Yun Zhi). Featured in traditional Chinese medicine since the 15th Century. Recent studies show Turkey Tail mushrooms have anti-viral and anti-bacterial properties and fight infections, including Hepatitis C. Turkey Tail increases NK Cell count and targets oncoviruses, including the Human Papilloma Virus. A general immune system builder. The FDA have been involved in trials using it as an adjunct to chemotherapy .Active compounds includes beta glucans and probiotics. Used to effect in pulmonary disease.

8. SHIITAKE MUSHROOM

A widely-used edible mushroom becoming popular in the west (Lat: Lentinala Edodes) (Cinese: Dong Gu). Contains Beta-glucans, anti-oxidants and lentinan, which helps heal DNA damage that typically follows orthodox cancer treatments like chemotherapy and radiotherapy; so it would act as a perfect adjunct to conventional cancer treatments to reduce the negative side effects. Boosts immune system and attacks cancer cells. Can prevent plaque buildup on artery walls, and thus can be used to help treat hypertensive disease. Can reduce obesity and metabolic disorders.

9. CHAGA MUSHROOM

Another powerful medicinal mushroom (Lat: Inonotus Obliquus) (Chinese: Hua Jie Kong Jun). Used in traditional Chinese medicine since the 1st century B.C. The mushroom is very hard with a softer interior and grows only on birch trees in cold climates. It is common in Siberia, the Himalayas, parts of China and Northern Europe. Chaga contains sterols, polysterols, phenols and many enzymes including Super Oxide Dismutase (SOD) which control free radicals in the body. Contains immune boosting compounds including beta glucans, polysaccharides, melanin and contains the highest concentration of anti-oxidants of any superfood. Chaga has been used in cancer therapies, for boosting the immune system, fighting viruses and microbial infections, gastrointestinal health and skin conditions. Useful in regulating cholesterol and improving cardiovascular health.

10. HIMEMATSUTAKE/ALMOND MUSHROOM

Discovered by the Japanese in the 1960s growing in Brazil (Lat: Agaricus Subrufescens) (Chinese: Jie Song Rong) and now found to grow in the Americas, Europe and Asia. Agaricus grows in the soil among rotting vegetation. The mushroom is used traditionally as a food in some parts of South America, but as its medicinal properties are being more and more researched it is now made into a preparation and used for treating conditions including diabetes, cardiac disease and cancers. Most research into this mushroom has been carried out in Japan, where it has been used since the 1970s as a cancer therapy. Agaricus is a vastly underestimated medicinal mushroom. As with other medicinalmushrooms it contains high amounts of beta glucans and so is an immune modulator and in addition increases production of white blood cells. An interesting research paper about Agaricus mushrooms can be read by clicking HERE.

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On 7/11/2019 at 1:40 AM, LongTang said:

You should be much more careful now as a second infection is considered to be much more severe.

Only if you are infected by a different strand. By my knowledge there are 4 strands of dengue virus. you have immunity from the strand you had before, but if you are infected by a different strand your immune system goes haywire.

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13 hours ago, Frotting said:

 

13 hours ago, Frotting said:

Owl.  This is for you.  I was trawling through my research about medicinal mushrooms and found a précis I wrote several years ago.  I will paste it here, but I am not sure this TV will allow such a lot of words but here goes.  You can have a look into all of them - by no means exhaustive, but at least it is a start for your research..

 

Thanks for that reply Frotting. I've copied the text and will look into the different types.

 

As I type, I am sipping a Reishi drink I made yesterday. I drink up to a litre a day; when I have it to drink. In yesterday's batch I put in some shredded ginger in the last half hour of simmering. To be honest, it has overwhelmed the taste and I'll not do that again.

 

I have warned the daughter, that if she gets the Dengue fever, be prepared for some horrible tasting medicine. The fever, by most accounts, is rife around here. But, I'm not sure of their diagnosi. The local hospital seems so give everything a blanket name. This is Thailand after all*.

 

I'm not so interested in the research side, (I do enough with my maths projects), but I do appreciate the wonderful, natural medicinal garden we are fortunate to be in in Isaan. Just want to keep as healthy and strong as poss'.

 

Thanks again or some fantastic info'.

 

* The older people here seem to know bout the natural remedies. Western influences have taken 'cures' away from the village and into the hospitals.

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@Frotting

 

I read the last post before the one before the last one.

 

Just a couple of points. There was a UK TV series called "Grow your own drugs." Long time ago now. I think it was a guy called James Wong who fronted the series. I'll look it up. What a great show.

 

Just on the point of trolling, flaming, deflecting, hijacking and the other bits and bobs found on forums; I'm generally in favour of them. As with most ridicule, the content can be dismantled by good discussion and sound argument. I don't like vindictive, personal attacks however.

 

Thanks again.

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