UK's Labour Party spars with BBC over charges of anti-Semitism

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You can critisise Israel for whatever you like .

Although there are many crimes against humanity occurring on a regular basis that do not involve Israel .

Theres the Rohinga in Myanmar , where 600 000 people got chased out the country , killed and attacked .

Theres there Uigar in China , reports of millions being incarcerated .

Tibetans having their land taken from them .

Kurds  , Armenians , Marsh Arabs and various other peoples that have a worse treatment than the Palestinians .

Much worse things happening across the globe , than whats happening in Israel  .

If you single out Israel and ignore all the much worse things happening 

People will question why you focus on Israel .

Palestinians want the destruction of the Israeli state and replaced by an Islamic state .

If you also want to see Jewish Israel replaced by an Islamic state .

People may question why you would like to see the demise of the Worlds only Jewish state .

 

“If you also want to see Jewish Israel replaced by an Islamic state .”

 

Dream up a point of view, assign it to somebody else then criticize them for the point of view you pinned on them.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

29 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You can critisise Israel for whatever you like .

Although there are many crimes against humanity occurring on a regular basis that do not involve Israel .

Theres the Rohinga in Myanmar , where 600 000 people got chased out the country , killed and attacked .

Theres there Uigar in China , reports of millions being incarcerated .

Tibetans having their land taken from them .

Kurds  , Armenians , Marsh Arabs and various other peoples that have a worse treatment than the Palestinians .

Much worse things happening across the globe , than whats happening in Israel  .

If you single out Israel and ignore all the much worse things happening 

People will question why you focus on Israel .

Palestinians want the destruction of the Israeli state and replaced by an Islamic state .

If you also want to see Jewish Israel replaced by an Islamic state .

People may question why you would like to see the demise of the Worlds only Jewish state .

 

Your point about bad things happening in other places in the world is without any doubt correct. Sadly you then start over egging the pudding.

The fact that someone criticizes Israel does not for a single moment mean that they are unaware of other bad things happening elsewhere. It is not a competition, it is totally fair to criticize any people and/or country that behaves in a vile manner without having to mention everyone else first. That would be whataboutism gone daft.

SOME people in SOME Arab countries say they want to see "the destruction of the Israeli state". Given the number of nukes Israel have, their support in the Senate, and their love affair with the Saudis and Egyptians it ain't gonna happen.

 

The reality is that the Palestinians just wan't to keep their own land so they can live on it, without their houses and olive groves being destroyed to make way for immigrants from Russia and elsewhere. The IDF is simply another Middle eastern terrorist group. I, like millions of others, wan't to see a two state solution where the Palestinians can live in peace on their own land, no reasonable person want's to see Israel destroyed. 

 

Incidentaly, although the treatment of the Rohinga has been appalling, some perspective is necessary. Towards the end of WWII the Brits armed to Rohinga so that they could help them fight the Japanese. Instead the Rohinga (Muslim immigrants from Bengal) used the weapons to carry out genocide on the local Burmese Buddhist population. Look up the "Arachan massacres". Not surprising really that the Burmese remember this.

[sanemax]

40 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“If you also want to see Jewish Israel replaced by an Islamic state .”

 

Dream up a point of view, assign it to somebody else then criticize them for the point of view you pinned on them.

 

 

Its the Hamas point of view and I also stated "If you also"  , which isnt assigning a view to someone else at all 

[sanemax]

24 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Your point about bad things happening in other places in the world is without any doubt correct. Sadly you then start over egging the pudding.

The fact that someone criticizes Israel does not for a single moment mean that they are unaware of other bad things happening elsewhere. It is not a competition, it is totally fair to criticize any people and/or country that behaves in a vile manner without having to mention everyone else first. That would be whataboutism gone daft.

SOME people in SOME Arab countries say they want to see "the destruction of the Israeli state". Given the number of nukes Israel have, their support in the Senate, and their love affair with the Saudis and Egyptians it ain't gonna happen.

 

The reality is that the Palestinians just wan't to keep their own land so they can live on it, without their houses and olive groves being destroyed to make way for immigrants from Russia and elsewhere. The IDF is simply another Middle eastern terrorist group. I, like millions of others, wan't to see a two state solution where the Palestinians can live in peace on their own land, no reasonable person want's to see Israel destroyed. 

 

Incidentaly, although the treatment of the Rohinga has been appalling, some perspective is necessary. Towards the end of WWII the Brits armed to Rohinga so that they could help them fight the Japanese. Instead the Rohinga (Muslim immigrants from Bengal) used the weapons to carry out genocide on the local Burmese Buddhist population. Look up the "Arachan massacres". Not surprising really that the Burmese remember this.

Yes, but when some people ONLY focus on a critisise Israel , you can understand their motives being questioned .

Mention Israel in any thread  , or sometimes even just an Israeli , then theres many responses attacking Israel and support of the Palestinians   , mention China and theres no mention of the Tibetans , Uigars etc  , same as Burma /Rohingas and numerous other countries .

  Why are people so vociferous against a Jewish state  and take no interest in non Jewish states ?

 The Palestinian Charter  states that the whole of Israel should be replaced by a Palestinian Muslim  state (although they will allow Jews to live there) and Iran and numerous other hard line countries support the Palestinian aims .

  Support of the Palestinian cause is support for the destruction of Israel .

 

[rocketman777]

17 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

This is not about Hamas hating Israel, this is about Corbyn siding with Hamas, do you think it is acceptable for a politician to take sides with terrorists who wish to wipe the only Jewish country off the face of the earth.

Surely nobody can deny that anti-Semetism has become more of a problem in the Labour Party since Corbyn took office. 

Hamas was created to resist the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon and the massacre of Palestinian refuges in their camps.

Hamas is defined as a terrorist organization according to US/UK criteria.. That Hamas policy is to ' wipe the only Jewish country off the face of the earth' is western propaganda.

 

It is a pity there are not more politicians and national leaders like Corbyn that have the balls to speak out against such atrocities and support those who oppose them.

 

Terrorist or Freedom fighter is a matter of perspective.

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, rocketman777 said:

Hamas was created to resist the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon and the massacre of Palestinian refuges in their camps.

Hamas is defined as a terrorist organization according to US/UK criteria.. That Hamas policy is to ' wipe the only Jewish country off the face of the earth' is western propaganda.

 

 

 

Read the Hamas Charter were its goals are stated and you will find that they want to whole of Israel to be an Islamic Palestinian state with sharia law .

Hamas were formed in 1987 , with the help of Israel to oppose the Muslim brotherhood and the PLO .

 

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, rocketman777 said:

Hamas was created to resist the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon and the massacre of Palestinian refuges in their camps.

Hamas is defined as a terrorist organization according to US/UK criteria.. That Hamas policy is to ' wipe the only Jewish country off the face of the earth' is western propaganda.

 

It is a pity there are not more politicians and national leaders like Corbyn that have the balls to speak out against such atrocities and support those who oppose them.

 

Terrorist or Freedom fighter is a matter of perspective.

 

Why are you crediting a post from me to RuamRudy.

This left wing diatribe does very little for me and it's hardly worth responding to, suffice to say Corbyn has made some extremely bad choices in his lifetime and now it has come back to haunt him.

Corbyn is a nasty piece of work, but some people think that the sun shines out of his proverbial, so good luck with that one.

No matter what anybody says about cuddly Corbyn you will always see him as a white knight on his trusty steed, that is why Labour are last in the polls, doesn't that tell you something about the Marxist Labour Party?

 

[Kevbo]

19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Claims of anti-semitism have certainly become more prominent since Corbyn took over - whether there is actually a problem and, if so, whether it is a relatively modern phenomenon, I have no idea. Anti-semitism was, to my understanding, rife across many sectors of the UK in those less enlightened days when talking about 'coons' and 'pakis' was, likewise, not frowned upon, so I am not so sure that he has been a precursor for any shift backwards in terms of attitude.

 

Nowadays, however, criticism of Israel is a very fraught business, with cries of anti-semitism being leveled at anyone dares to suggest that the Palestinians have gotten a raw deal. 

 

Hamas - they are a different kettle of fish, of course. But there is a long history of covert contacts between politicians and terrorist organisations. Does Corbyn think, possibly naively, that he can appeal to the moderates, and in the full glare of the public eye, without drawing criticism? I don't know. What I do know, however, is that, for all the noise the MSM has been making about Labour's alleged anti-semitism, they have been incredibly silent about the Tory party's alleged islamophobia. 

 

new poll finds widespread Islamophobia among Conservative Party members

while I agree that terms like coon and ni##er are racist and derogatory, paki is merely an abbreviation, the fact that they don't like it doesn't make it racist. I've just been reading another thread where my compatriots are constantly referred to as Brits, I'm sure we'll get over it

[rocketman777]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

Read the Hamas Charter were its goals are stated and you will find that they want to whole of Israel to be an Islamic Palestinian state with sharia law .

Hamas were formed in 1987 , with the help of Israel to oppose the Muslim brotherhood and the PLO . 

 

Yup - My fault confusing Hamas with Hezbollah

However, Hamas has modified its charter

 

May 1, 2017 - Hamas has unveiled a new political agenda softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied ..

 

 

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, Kevbo said:

while I agree that terms like coon and ni##er are racist and derogatory, paki is merely an abbreviation, the fact that they don't like it doesn't make it racist. I've just been reading another thread where my compatriots are constantly referred to as Brits, I'm sure we'll get over it

I do disagree .

"paki" although indeed is an abbreviation and quite widely used in India as a unoffensive term for Pakistan .

Used in the UK, its a deliberately offensive term always used in a derogatory way and quite often has the word *bashing* stuck on the end of it .

Oddly enough, *Chinaman* is considered to be an offensive racist term for a errrm Chinese man, in the USA

[Galactus]

anti Zionist not anti Semitic. nothing wrong to be an anti Zionist.

and some jews are ready to blame you as an anti Semitic just bc you criticise them!! a classic way of them.

and wonder why jews are soo sensitive for any criticism too?

just bc they were subjected to a genocide by Nazi Germans, it doesnt mean we cannot criticize what they are doing in this world now!

[sanemax]

25 minutes ago, rocketman777 said:

Yup - My fault confusing Hamas with Hezbollah

However, Hamas has modified its charter

 

May 1, 2017 - Hamas has unveiled a new political agenda softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied ..

 

 

Hezbollah are even more hardline than Hamas with their aims to  have a Iranian style Islamic state in Palestine and "all the Jews being sent back to Germany or wherever then came from "

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Galactus said:

anti Zionist not anti Semitic. noting wrong to be an anti Zionist.

and wonder why jews are soo sensitive for any criticism. 

just bc they were subjected to a genocide my Nazi Germans, it doest mean we cannot criticize what they are doing in this world now!

Anti Zionist is a word people use when they actually mean anti Jew, but they get away with it by saying anti Zionist.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Galactus said:

anti Zionist not anti Semitic. nothing wrong to be an anti Zionist.

and some jews are ready to blame you as an anti Semitic just bc you criticise them!! a classic way of them.

and wonder why jews are soo sensitive for any criticism too?

just bc they were subjected to a genocide by Nazi Germans, it doesnt mean we cannot criticize what they are doing in this world now!

Criticise Israel all you like , but better if you distance yourself from the people who want to finish off the job that Hitler started 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Anti Zionist is a word people use when they actually mean anti Jew, but they get away with it by saying anti Zionist.

Usually but not always.

Yes there are some Jews that are anti Zionist.

Also ask 1000 Jews what is their definition of Zionist and you'll get 1000 different answers.

There are some really toxic flavors of Zionism and also some quite liberal ones but obviously even most liberal flavors of Zionism are unacceptable to Israel demonizers. 

So it's become a totally LOADED as a word. 

Because it really isn't fully black and white, the anti Zionist thing can be a very effective cover for Jew hating. 

I don't see an answer for that. It will obviously continue. 

[Orton Rd]

On 7/11/2019 at 2:45 PM, rocketman777 said:

anti-Semitism,   which has been redefined by to suit the propaganda of the Zionist, is just a way of trying to undermine the Labor Party and Corbyn in particular.

 

Of the conservative party members approx 80% are signed up with Conservative Friends of Israel  (CFI)   group

 

Where as the equivalent  ' Labour Friends of Israel (LFI) ' group has a very low number( approx 20) of Labor members

 

This does not suit the Zionist agenda and limits the Israeli governments influence on Labor policy..

 

The documentary by Aljazeera  'The Lobby' exposed  the deliberate policy directed from the Israeli embassy and defacto the Israeli government to undermine the Labor party with antisemitism smear tactics

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/

 

 

You do realize that Aljaezera's emblem is 'Allah' and the country paying for it has been widely accused of funding anti Israeli terrorism? Hardly an independent source for anything middle eastern.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Your point about bad things happening in other places in the world is without any doubt correct. Sadly you then start over egging the pudding.

The fact that someone criticizes Israel does not for a single moment mean that they are unaware of other bad things happening elsewhere. It is not a competition, it is totally fair to criticize any people and/or country that behaves in a vile manner without having to mention everyone else first. That would be whataboutism gone daft.

SOME people in SOME Arab countries say they want to see "the destruction of the Israeli state". Given the number of nukes Israel have, their support in the Senate, and their love affair with the Saudis and Egyptians it ain't gonna happen.

 

The reality is that the Palestinians just wan't to keep their own land so they can live on it, without their houses and olive groves being destroyed to make way for immigrants from Russia and elsewhere. The IDF is simply another Middle eastern terrorist group. I, like millions of others, wan't to see a two state solution where the Palestinians can live in peace on their own land, no reasonable person want's to see Israel destroyed. 

 

Incidentaly, although the treatment of the Rohinga has been appalling, some perspective is necessary. Towards the end of WWII the Brits armed to Rohinga so that they could help them fight the Japanese. Instead the Rohinga (Muslim immigrants from Bengal) used the weapons to carry out genocide on the local Burmese Buddhist population. Look up the "Arachan massacres". Not surprising really that the Burmese remember this.

 

Not a competition, you say. Well now.

It is no competition in the UN (and especially at so-called human-rights bodies), where Israel receives far more consistent attention than any other nation or conflict. It is also not much of a competition in the British Parliament, where Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are mentioned or referenced more than many other such issues. Spin it all you like, but it's not because Israel's supposed crimes are worse. 

 

As for the "reality" regarding what Palestinians "just want" - you're pushing a rather simplified and naive version. Kinda funny that you can accept different views (even extreme ones) exist elsewhere. What you, and millions of others wish to see (regardless of your "IDF is a terrorist organization" nonsense) is not necessarily a prevalent Palestinian  point of view.

 

 

[Morch]

6 hours ago, rocketman777 said:

Hamas was created to resist the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon and the massacre of Palestinian refuges in their camps.

Hamas is defined as a terrorist organization according to US/UK criteria.. That Hamas policy is to ' wipe the only Jewish country off the face of the earth' is western propaganda.

 

It is a pity there are not more politicians and national leaders like Corbyn that have the balls to speak out against such atrocities and support those who oppose them.

 

Terrorist or Freedom fighter is a matter of perspective.

 

 

Hamas was founded about 5 years later, and got nothing to do with Lebanon. You're probably confusing it with Hezbollah. Thanks for making the depth of your knowledge and grasp of detail clearer.

 

Hamas (in its entirety or as applied to its military wing) is defined as a terrorist organization by more countries than the USA and the UK - add Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the EU. Other countries have issues with Hamas without outright designating it as such (more applicable regionally).

 

As for the supposed "Western propaganda" regarding Hamas's goals - not really. All the more so when one skips the translations or English versions on offer. In Arabic, the messages are much clearer.

 

Your last line is just a slogan, and a daft one at that.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, rocketman777 said:

Yup - My fault confusing Hamas with Hezbollah

However, Hamas has modified its charter

 

May 1, 2017 - Hamas has unveiled a new political agenda softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied ..

 

 

 

Not quite. Hamas did not "modify" it's charter, but presented a new version. That's pretty much routine with various Palestinian documents and statements - a new version, but old one isn't officially cancelled, and can be resorted to when needed.

 

The new version was more to do with distancing the Hamas from the Muslim Brotherhood, in order to alleviate Egyptian pressure. It still doesn't acknowledge Israel as a permanent fixture. The bit you referenced is not offered as a permanent solution, and comes with a set of constraints that make it unattainable anyway.

 

And, of course, the topic isn't about the Hamas at all. It's about allegations of antisemitism within the Labour party.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Not a competition, you say. Well now.

It is no competition in the UN (and especially at so-called human-rights bodies), where Israel receives far more consistent attention than any other nation or conflict. It is also not much of a competition in the British Parliament, where Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are mentioned or referenced more than many other such issues. Spin it all you like, but it's not because Israel's supposed crimes are worse. 

 

As for the "reality" regarding what Palestinians "just want" - you're pushing a rather simplified and naive version. Kinda funny that you can accept different views (even extreme ones) exist elsewhere. What you, and millions of others wish to see (regardless of your "IDF is a terrorist organization" nonsense) is not necessarily a prevalent Palestinian  point of view.

 

 

I imagine from what you say, that the endless theft of Palestinian land by Israeli settlers is just hunky dorey with you. Has it occurred to you that the reason that many people do hold Israel to a higher standard than the Chinese in the Kashgar region for example, is that Israel claims to be a civilized western democracy. For my money the IDF is a terrorist organization, you don't like it, ok we have to agree to disagree. Calling it nonsense is I presume because you have no rational argument to support your views. Get used to the idea of State terrorism, most of the world has already. When I see Israeli troops deliberately operating a shoot to kill policy against teenagers with stones (Or journalists as it has happened), then I see evil.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I imagine from what you say, that the endless theft of Palestinian land by Israeli settlers is just hunky dorey with you. Has it occurred to you that the reason that many people do hold Israel to a higher standard than the Chinese in the Kashgar region for example, is that Israel claims to be a civilized western democracy. For my money the IDF is a terrorist organization, you don't like it, ok we have to agree to disagree. Calling it nonsense is I presume because you have no rational argument to support your views. Get used to the idea of State terrorism, most of the world has already. When I see Israeli troops deliberately operating a shoot to kill policy against teenagers with stones (Or journalists as it has happened), then I see evil.

 

I have no idea how you inferred that from my post, and I don't care much what you imagine - my posting history is out there, you're welcome to try and find a shred of anything supporting your nonsense assertion.

 

You can spin this all you like. None of the things you raise quite explain the level of attention this conflict generates, certainly not in relation to other, worse instances.

 

And that's a fine point about lack of "rational argument", especially seeing as yours amounts to "for my money". So nonsense on two counts now.

 

Even if your extreme view was to be accommodated, still doesn't account for the level of coverage or censure involved.

 

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Usually but not always.

Yes there are some Jews that are anti Zionist.

Also ask 1000 Jews what is their definition of Zionist and you'll get 1000 different answers.

There are some really toxic flavors of Zionism and also some quite liberal ones but obviously even most liberal flavors of Zionism are unacceptable to Israel demonizers. 

So it's become a totally LOADED as a word. 

Because it really isn't fully black and white, the anti Zionist thing can be a very effective cover for Jew hating. 

I don't see an answer for that. It will obviously continue. 

Yes this is a sound take on it. As far as I understand it Zionism is a form of Nationalism, and there are many Jews who are not Zionists. As George Orwell pointed out (Forget the provocative line from Oscar Wilde- that was his style), there is a big difference between Patriotism and Nationalism.  Then add to that  Racism. So:-

1) Patriotism - entirely acceptable behavior like defending your country in a time of war, or supporting your country's football team. You could even extend this to a buy British program.

2) Nationalism - The belief that your country is (For some strange reason) superior to other countries. This is a dangerous belief and can lead to conflict, and was at the heart of the 3rd Reich.

3) Racism - The hatred of other races, tribes, clans, people of different colour, etc.

Criticising people on this basis just because they are different, is not acceptable.

Criticising people on the basis of what they do if you consider it to be wrong, is understandable. 

 

Therein lies the difficulty drawing a line between Anti semitism - a form of racism, and Zionism, a form of Nationalism.

[Jingthing]

Yes this is a sound take on it. As far as I understand it Zionism is a form of Nationalism, and there are many Jews who are not Zionists. As George Orwell pointed out (Forget the provocative line from Oscar Wilde- that was his style), there is a big difference between Patriotism and Nationalism.  Then add to that  Racism. So:-

1) Patriotism - entirely acceptable behavior like defending your country in a time of war, or supporting your country's football team. You could even extend this to a buy British program.

2) Nationalism - The belief that your country is (For some strange reason) superior to other countries. This is a dangerous belief and can lead to conflict, and was at the heart of the 3rd Reich.

3) Racism - The hatred of other races, tribes, clans, people of different colour, etc.

Criticising people on this basis just because they are different, is not acceptable.

Criticising people on the basis of what they do if you consider it to be wrong, is understandable. 

 

Therein lies the difficulty drawing a line between Anti semitism - a form of racism, and Zionism, a form of Nationalism.

I don't really agree with your definition of Zionism. The ideology developed long before there was a literal nation of Israel. Bottom line is the history of the Jewish people is a specific thing and unique. Zionism as well is a specific ideology as a response to the oppression and persecution of Jews in the diaspora for thousands of years.

 

I also disagree with your simplistic labeling of antisemitism as racism. That is only one aspect of antisemitism.

 

To proactively clarify that of course Jews are not a race but indeed one aspect of antisemitism is racism because in that Jews are regarded as a race.

 

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[katana]

On 7/11/2019 at 1:28 PM, bristolboy said:

If those open borders are such a disaster why is it that northern european workers are faring so much better than their counterparts in the uk? Maybe, just maybe because social programs have been slashed and the NHS underfunded under Tory rule. There's only one developed nation with greater income inequality and less social mobility: the USA. Towards the condition of which the Tories clearly aspire

With regard to the current immigration crisis in Europe and open borders, we have the call to compassion from Merkel and the Globalists that we have to take care of all these people. This is all just a ruse for Globalists. They love the cheap labour/low wages and votes they get, with little regard to the stress all this puts on the European welfare systems.

[SheungWan]

Criticise Israel all you like , but better if you distance yourself from the people who want to finish off the job that Hitler started 

And that is where the problem sits in the Labour Party. Wherever clear evidence of anti-Semitism has occurred, too many on the Left have ignored, deflected or tried to kick the issue into the long grass. And then when the stink has been too much, they have reluctantly disciplined the individual concerned. The Hard Left? In total denial.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dexterm]

This is a smear campaign to discredit Corbyn who has spent his whole life fighting racism.

It only started because be has a chance of becoming PM and would be the first to be honest about Israel's brutal and unjust treatment of Palestinians.

The Zionists method is falsely to conflate justifiable criticism of Israel with anti Semitism. Throw enough mud and hope some of it sticks,  and yet no-one has so far stated a single word or act by Corbyn that is anti Semitic (that is hatred of Jews simply because someone is Jewish.)

[Laughing Gravy]

19 hours ago, sanemax said:

You can critisise Israel for whatever you like .

Although there are many crimes against humanity occurring on a regular basis that do not involve Israel .

Theres the Rohinga in Myanmar , where 600 000 people got chased out the country , killed and attacked .

Theres there Uigar in China , reports of millions being incarcerated .

Tibetans having their land taken from them .

Kurds  , Armenians , Marsh Arabs and various other peoples that have a worse treatment than the Palestinians .

Much worse things happening across the globe , than whats happening in Israel  .

If you single out Israel and ignore all the much worse things happening 

People will question why you focus on Israel .

Palestinians want the destruction of the Israeli state and replaced by an Islamic state .

If you also want to see Jewish Israel replaced by an Islamic state .

People may question why you would like to see the demise of the Worlds only Jewish state .

 

Firstly, I have never said I want the demise of the 'only Jewish state'. This tread is about Labour and antisemitism, so very relevant. The issues you mentioned here about other countries i agree with. please start another thread up on them and i will contribute.

 

You do seem t be doing exactly what many in the Labour party and others in the world defending Israel and not allowing criticism, when they are indeed guilty of atrocities.

 

There are historians who are questioning the number of Holocaust dearths. Whether they are right or wrong is irrelevant. They are getting shouted down and their academic and personal names are being targeted. in the name of being anti-semantic, which is an absolute disgrace. It seems the norm now that if you have a different opinion you get labelled with racists, bigot and other terms.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

55 minutes ago, dexterm said:

This is a smear campaign to discredit Corbyn who has spent his whole life fighting racism.

It only started because be has a chance of becoming PM and would be the first to be honest about Israel's brutal and unjust treatment of Palestinians.

The Zionists method is falsely to conflate justifiable criticism of Israel with anti Semitism. Throw enough mud and hope some of it sticks,  and yet no-one has so far stated a single word or act by Corbyn that is anti Semitic (that is hatred of Jews simply because someone is Jewish.)

He spent his whole life fighting the EU but now he wants to bend over and take one for the team. Lost any respect I had for the man. Another lying, self serving politician.

 

I agree about the Zionist bit though completely.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Allegations about a "smear campaign" coming from a poster who's entire posting history is a smear campaign is kinda cute.

 

Seems rather obvious, and reasonable, that Corbyn the party leader and PM hopeful would face more public scrutiny than Corbyn the backbencher.

 

As far as I'm aware the criticism regarding Corbyn is not so much that he himself is antisemitic, but rather to do with his lame response to such issues within the party he leads.

 

Nice to see you've managed to sweep voices from inside the Labour party unsatisfied with Corbyn on this score.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Firstly, I have never said I want the demise of the 'only Jewish state'. This tread is about Labour and antisemitism, so very relevant. The issues you mentioned here about other countries i agree with. please start another thread up on them and i will contribute.

 

You do seem t be doing exactly what many in the Labour party and others in the world defending Israel and not allowing criticism, when they are indeed guilty of atrocities.

 

There are historians who are questioning the number of Holocaust dearths. Whether they are right or wrong is irrelevant. They are getting shouted down and their academic and personal names are being targeted. in the name of being anti-semantic, which is an absolute disgrace. It seems the norm now that if you have a different opinion you get labelled with racists, bigot and other terms.

 

Well, I wasnt referring to you personally, I was speaking generally .

I wasnt speaking about whether you would or wouldnt contribute to a thread about the Rohinga persecution in Myanmar and their right to return  , my point is that there would be one headline newstory about Myanmar and minimal  replies , mention China and no one would mention the Tibetans/Uigars plight  , but ant mention Israel and the thread will soon turn into Israels right to exist and the usual "Israelis are Nazis" etc .

   Now the definition of racism/discrimination  is when you treat people differently due to their race /ethnicity/Religion  and its quite clear that Israel is treated differently due to their Religion .

  I do disagree that Israel are guilty of "atrocities" , IMO , Palestinians firing rockets from schools/hospitals  in Gaza full of children is an atrocity , when the sole reason is that they know Israel will fire back at the source of the rockets and the children will die .

  You can indeed criticise Israel  , no one has said that you cannot  , its just questionable as to why some people aways criticise Israel for minor things, yet ignore the huge other , real atrocities going on in the world .

   Its not the people who ask questions about the holocaust that are getting shouted down, its the ones who deny that it happened .

It should be open to discussion , but there are some people that deny it happened .