TM30 Mandela Effect in The Matrix

[MeePeeMai]

My wife and I just got back from a 3 day stay in Bangkok (to see some friends who are here on vacation).  We stayed in a hotel and I asked the receptionist if they would be reporting my stay to Immigration to which they replied that they would indeed report my stay. 

 

BTW, I tried waiting outside and having my wife check in alone but they asked her who would be staying in the room with her and when she said "my husband" they asked where I was and what my nationality was.  When she said American, they refused to let her complete the check in process and told her that I needed to come to the front desk with my passport and check in myself.  I also tried to check in using my Thai driver's license but they said that I must present my passport in order to stay there.

 

After getting home yesterday I spent the better part of 2 hours getting all the required paperwork ready such as copies of my passport and everything in it, TM30 form (front and back), Power of Attorney form from our landlord, copies of his ID card and Tabian Ban all filled out and signed in blue ink (as required).

 

This morning we drove to the Immigration Office in Chiang Khan to turn in my TM30 (has always been required at this IO after staying in a hotel).  We were greeted by two very kind male officers who looked at my passport and paperwork and politely stated that a TM30 was not required unless you leave Thailand, then one would be due within 24 hours of your return to your home.

 

We politely explained that we have been told (on numerous occasions) by the female staff there that a TM30 is required anytime I return from a trip outside of Thailand or return home from staying anyplace other than my residence (such as a hotel or family member's home etc) and that we have done this many times after staying in various hotels around Thailand.  They assured me that this was not the case and that I do not have to turn in a TM30 unless I return home from a trip outside of Thailand.  They then pointed to a couple of signs that were posted (in Thai / no English) which stated the rules regarding the TM30.  I could not read the signs but my wife read them and confirmed what they had said.  They also gave us a brochure which spelled out the rules.  I had my wife take a picture of these signs for future reference.

 

Well this was good news and I was very happy to hear this from these nice gentlemen... I just hope that the female staff there are now on the same page (since I don't want to have any problems in the future while doing a 90 day report or applying for an extension of stay).  My wife was shocked because this was the exact opposite of what several of the female I.O.'s there have told us many times in the recent past.  I'll keep all the paperwork for this visit just in case it's needed later on to prove that we came to do a TM30 today but was told that it was not needed.

 

On the way home I just thought to myself .... welcome to the Twilight Zone, where the Mandela Effect is now in full force.  Now I just hope that the wording on the signs and the pamphlet do not change on us at some point.  

[BlackSwan]

Would you mind posting the pictures of the signs or the brochure please?

[MeePeeMai]

Just now, BlackSwan said:

Would you mind posting the pictures of the signs or the brochure please?

Will do but my wife has them on her phone and she is at work now.  I will post them as soon as she gets home tonight.

[BlackSwan]

Great thanks ????

[DrJack54]

OP...I think more about Monty Python sketches.

Some offices want nothing, some want tm30 only after international travel, some only after domestic and some for both. Possibly even diffictent attitude within any given imm office.

Its just rubbish. 

[MeePeeMai]

4 hours ago, BlackSwan said:

Great thanks ????

 FWIW, here are the two posters I referred to

[MeePeeMai]

The pamphlet is pictured below (sorry about the file sizes but I wanted to make sure that it is legible).

 

[jackdd]

As far as i understand it neither on the posters nor on the brochure is anything about "if comming from abroad" or "if having travelled to another province".

They just use the standard wording as in the law which is about like this:

"The housemaster, the owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where the alien, receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed, must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours, dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned."

[DrJack54]

Missing the point. The brochures etc above mean nothing. Zip. Zilch. etc.

Its about what your particular imm office requires.

If I started thread now something like ..does CW require tm30 for domestic travel + can I file tm30 just for my last reentry before extension + will I be fined 800baht + ++.... You get the picture. Even experts like ubon elk will say...."most likely..." this or that. No definitive answers. Because they cannot. What a joke.

[BlackSwan]

Anyway thanks for posting those ????

[lkv]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Missing the point. The brochures etc above mean nothing. Zip. Zilch. etc.

Yeah exactly, changing the story is very easy.

 

- We require you to do this now.

 

-But last time you told me something else. Look, i have the BROCHURES. It's proof!

 

-Yes, those are the old brochures. It's changed now. We don't have the new brochures just yet. Anyways, so today it will be 800 baht.

[arithai12]

That's a lot of words and a lot of bandwidth for zero new information.

I tried to understand how the Mandela effect and The Matrix fit in,  but I gave up.

[Seth1a2a]

10 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

On the way home I just thought to myself .... welcome to the Twilight Zone, where the Mandela Effect is now in full force. 

Mandela Effect

Named after the famous Nelson Mandela this conspiracy theory Is when a large group of people remember something being a certain way, but when people go back and look at it, it has changed or is gone in this universe with no reasoning other than "it's always been like that".

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Sounds like an accurate description of your situation.

Thanks for the info. Please give us an update on your next visit if they make any new changes in policy.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mandela Effect

 

 

 

[zyphodb]

Always amazes me when they publish stuff like these posters or leaflets for the "aliens" benefit, that they expect the so called "aliens" to be able to understand Thai, instead of translating it into English which everyone can understand or translate easily.

 It must be less than 1% of the worlds population who can read Thai with it's own specific alphabet. 

  Or maybe they do this deliberately so that they can just make the rules up as they go along....

[allanos]

As a South African, I have never previously heard of the "Mandela Effect", and so my interest has been piqued to discover what it is and how it originated.

 

Having Googled it, it states that a large body of persons believed that Mandela died in prison in the 1980's, only to discover, later, that he was alive and well and living in Johannesburg.  (Nelson Mandela died on 5th December, 2013, although it has been put about that the ANC withheld news of his death from the country for a few days, for reasons best-known to the political organisation). 

 

I have never met one South African who ever laboured under this false impression, nor who knew the term, "Mandela Effect".  Those of my age had no such misapprehensions at any time.

 

Rather than a conspiracy theory, it seems like a lot of hokum, probably originating in the USA, and needs to be consigned to the trash can.

[Paul52]

Roi Et immigration don’t currently require TM30 for staying away from home in Thailand.  Just require for returning from international.  It’s been like this many years, but obviously could change any time (hopefully not).

[Retdent]

Same in Lamphun.

[Suradit69]

17 hours ago, Seth1a2a said:

Mandela Effect

Named after the famous Nelson Mandela this conspiracy theory Is when a large group of people remember something being a certain way, but when people go back and look at it, it has changed or is gone in this universe with no reasoning other than "it's always been like that".

Sounds more like one-sided dubious reports posted on TV which are read by a group of people who then reference the report as fact thus multiplying the reference securing its place in TV history as proof that something supposedly Immigrations or Thai people do all the time.

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Suradit69

[MeePeeMai]

TONS of interesting YouTube examples on the "Mandela Effect" such as well known phrases in the Bible now changed, missing chapters in The Bible, spelling of words such as Fruit Loops - Froot Loops, movie trivia such as Star Wars and Forest Gump..... the examples are endless. 

 

Interesting subject for sure once you look into it - hence my correlation to the Immigration Rules here (being told since my arrival here that a TM30 is required within 24 hours after I sleep or travel anyplace away from home to suddenly being told that a TM30 is required within 24 hrs ONLY when returning from a trip outside of Thailand, not required after staying in a hotel or anywhere else in Thailand for any amount of time).... and being told that it has ALWAYS been this way.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[dcnx]

This happened to one of my friends recently in Chiang Mai. They told him he doesn’t have to come into the office for a new TM30 unless he changes his residence, but he does need to do it online. Then he can come to IO with his 90 day check in. So that’s what he did and they fined him 1600b for not coming in after they told him not to. 

 

The left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing here.

[bobbyd1]

Chiang Rai Immigration office still requires TM30 after my local travel anywhere in Thailand, i.e. Bangkok and even overnight stays in Chaing Mai. Frustrating that the Immigration Office are not standardized.

Edited July 13, 2019 by bobbyd1

[Jadam]

23 hours ago, zyphodb said:

Always amazes me when they publish stuff like these posters or leaflets for the "aliens" benefit, that they expect the so called "aliens" to be able to understand Thai, instead of translating it into English which everyone can understand or translate easily.

Seeing as the rule applies to the owner of the property (landlord, spouse, etc.) who, 99% of the time is Thai, it makes perfect sense to me that they publish the information in Thai.  If it were published in English, there would be some fine print that the English translation was not official which would make it meaningless anyway.

[Jadam]

The amount of time foreigners spend worry about this is ridiculous.  What should be happening is you should be handing your landlord (or spouse, as the case may be) copies of 3 pages in your passport each time you enter the country.  That's your responsibility.  The owner of the property is responsible for doing the TM30 registration.  When foreigners try to do it for themselves they just increase the likelihood of being fined, which shouldn't even be possible because he only person who should be fined in any circumstance is the owner of the property, not the alien.

[MeePeeMai]

Yes, simply informing your landlord that you are back from a trip and expecting him/her to file a TM30 for you will not work unless you give the landlord a copy of all the relevant pages in your passport (for filling out page 2 of the TM30 form).  

Edited July 14, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[Jadam]

4 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Yes, simply informing your landlord that you are back from a trip and expecting him/her to file a TM30 for you will not work unless you give the landlord a copy of all the relevant pages in your passport (for filling out page 2 of the TM30 form).  

They only need 3 pages:
1.  Photo page
2.  Visa page (or visa extension page)

3.  Arrival card with entry stamp (permitted to stay until date)

 

Give these to landlord and let them handle it.

IMO (not that anyone ever asks me, but still) immigration shouldn't even accept a TM30 from the alien; it should have to be filed by the property owner only.

[MeePeeMai]

6 minutes ago, Jadam said:

 immigration shouldn't even accept a TM30 from the alien; it should have to be filed by the property owner only.

 

My landlord works everyday and my nearest immigration office does not accept online reporting (yet) so I have to do the leg work, drive to Immigration submit everything myself.

 

They will only allow this if I have a Power Of Attorney form filled out and signed by the landlord (accompanied with signed copies of his ID card and Tabian Ban for the house I rent from him).

[TerryLH]

On 7/12/2019 at 6:47 PM, DrJack54 said:

Some offices want nothing, some want tm30 only after international travel, some only after domestic and some for both.

Which offices only want TM30 after domestic travel?

 

Thanks, Terry

[Martyp]

8 hours ago, Jadam said:

The amount of time foreigners spend worry about this is ridiculous.  What should be happening is you should be handing your landlord (or spouse, as the case may be) copies of 3 pages in your passport each time you enter the country.  That's your responsibility.  The owner of the property is responsible for doing the TM30 registration.  When foreigners try to do it for themselves they just increase the likelihood of being fined, which shouldn't even be possible because he only person who should be fined in any circumstance is the owner of the property, not the alien.

That is all well and good and it is admirable to stand on principal but it is your 1 year extension at stake. If Immigration allows you to file it yourself (Bangkok does) then you need to decide what you are going to do. It's as simple as that.

[DrJack54]

21 minutes ago, TerryLH said:

Which offices only want TM30 after domestic travel?

 

Thanks, Terry

What's your point? So your imm office wants what? TM30 ...zero or only after international... Or both ? 

I read ONE post imm wanted it only after domestic travel. Anyway tiger what's your experience. I ask so you can contribute in positive manner.

[OJAS]

On 7/13/2019 at 6:09 PM, Paul52 said:

Roi Et immigration don’t currently require TM30 for staying away from home in Thailand.  Just require for returning from international.  It’s been like this many years, but obviously could change any time (hopefully not).

And Rayong Immigration don't even require a fresh TM30 after an international trip. I applied for & obtained my latest retirement extension there on Friday, just over a week after returning from Europe. Nothing was said to me or my wife (as housemaster) about the need for a new TM30.