Changes made by TransferWise transfers to Thai bank accounts

[pookiki]

For those expat retirees who have been relying on TransferWise to make your monthly transfers of 65.000 baht to satisfy Thai immigration requirements for extension of stays, please be advised that TransferWise has changed their 'partnering' bank in Thailand.

I started using TransferWise in November of last year and all my transfers to BBL were noted as TTL (international transfers) until this month.  I first noticed a difference in making this transfer when it was noted that the transfer would take five days as opposed to the normal three. I initiated the transfer on a Wednesday and was told the money would arrive on the following Monday. Despite this notice, the money arrived in my BBL account on Friday afternoon as usual but was noted as an 'Interbank Transfer via SMART' as opposed to an international transfer.

 

A TransferWise customer service representative informed me that this change was because BBL is no longer the partnering bank for TransferWise in Thailand.  I hope this change is not problematic to Thai immigration when my bank records are reviewed by Thai immigration in meeting my obligation to transfer 65,000 baht/month for my extension of stay -- especially since this is changing mid-stream.  I will be able to show my TransferWise record of tansfers but I'm wondering if others have had any problems with transfers noted as 'Interbank Transfer via SMART' transfers'?

[lopburi3]

18 minutes ago, pookiki said:

I will be able to show my TransferWise record of tansfers but I'm wondering if others have had any problems with transfers noted as 'Interbank Transfer via SMART' transfers'?

It remains an unresolved issue with active discussions in several threads since start of the month.  Many people are facing this issue and reports so far have been some immigration accepting a one or two off but we do not know if that will be the case next year or if all or most are marked SMART.  

[Lenny Jones]

I have been using Transferwise for several month and recently ran into big problems with POLI transfer choice. I then changed to Bank transfer to my same bank in Thailand - SCB. 

 

Transferwise had changed its bank details in Australia - Same bank but new account details (strange - -).

 

As a result I had to delete recipient accounts then recreate them to get the system functioning again.  Transferwise did not notify me and I found out the hard way when my transfers failed and they refunded my money back to My Aussie bank.  This created a hole in my June 65000 baht allocation and I'm yet to resolve that with local immigration (fingers crossed!)  Monies in the July transfers will show remedial activity.  I just hope Immigration accepts the variance.

 

 

 

[PJPom]

Just did my extension yesterday using copy of bankbook and official bank statement from SCB which showed Transferwise deposits coded in the far right column as MCL0001.

Everyone has been panicking that they don't have FTT or IFT but if you bother to check you will find MCL0001 means international transfer using bank with API system. 

My I O was happy to listen to the explanation and accepted that my funds transfers met the rules.

 All the fuss is in another two forums regarding transfer wise where I have posted this info, and where I found out about MCL code a couple of days ago, seems like a lot of people don't bother reading before posting.

[Lenny Jones]

29 minutes ago, PJPom said:

Just did my extension yesterday using copy of bankbook and official bank statement from SCB which showed Transferwise deposits coded in the far right column as MCL0001.

Everyone has been panicking that they don't have FTT or IFT but if you bother to check you will find MCL0001 means international transfer using bank with API system. 

My I O was happy to listen to the explanation and accepted that my funds transfers met the rules.

 All the fuss is in another two forums regarding transfer wise where I have posted this info, and where I found out about MCL code a couple of days ago, seems like a lot of people don't bother reading before posting.

I know all about those bank codes and I read carefully the postings.  You contacted me privately and i have answered..  The "hiccups" go further afield and this - along with individual Immigration officer's levels of autonomy - is going to turn into large problems

[pontious]

43 minutes ago, PJPom said:

Just did my extension yesterday using copy of bankbook and official bank statement from SCB which showed Transferwise deposits coded in the far right column as MCL0001.

Everyone has been panicking that they don't have FTT or IFT but if you bother to check you will find MCL0001 means international transfer using bank with API system. 

My I O was happy to listen to the explanation and accepted that my funds transfers met the rules.

 All the fuss is in another two forums regarding transfer wise where I have posted this info, and where I found out about MCL code a couple of days ago, seems like a lot of people don't bother reading before posting.

That is because yours are international codes. Many people get SMT which is a domestic transfer. I suggest you read more before posting.

[jackdd]

There is already a topic about this, even on page 1:

 

[Puchaiyank]

I would think a transaction copy from your home bank showing the money to Transferwise being withdrawn from your account would work to verify the origin of the transfer.

[luckyluke]

All at the discretion of the Immigration officer dealing with you. 

 

So expect differences :

 

from one office to another, 

from one officer to another in the same office, 

from the same officer, according to the day, hour or other circumstances. 

[pookiki]

In thinking more about this issue, there would appear to me two very simple solutions:

 

1.  Banks could change the coding to state: 'International transfer using interbank SMART process' (or something similar to show that the transfer originated from overseas.)

 

2.  TransferWise could add an additional nominal fee for 'tagging' transfers to specific banks outside their 'partnering' bank institutions in a particular country.

 

There is a solution for every problem if people are willing to seek a solution.  All of this came about because three embassies were unwilling to negotiate with the Thai government on income affidavits and income verification letters. 

 

Hopefully these proposed solutions are viable and will be adopted!

[Nowisee]

1 hour ago, pookiki said:

In thinking more about this issue, there would appear to me two very simple solutions:

 

1.  Banks could change the coding to state: 'International transfer using interbank SMART process' (or something similar to show that the transfer originated from overseas.)

 

2.  TransferWise could add an additional nominal fee for 'tagging' transfers to specific banks outside their 'partnering' bank institutions in a particular country.

 

There is a solution for every problem if people are willing to seek a solution.  All of this came about because three embassies were unwilling to negotiate with the Thai government on income affidavits and income verification letters. 

 

Hopefully these proposed solutions are viable and will be adopted!

These proposals might seem like a very simple solution, but the "could" part of it is the weak link.
 

This has the potential to turn into a major issue for a lot of monthly income extension people.

 

What is your solution when they're sitting there at the immigration desk and the IO says denied, cannot.

I agree, the solution for the embassies to verify the name on the required pension document, just as the thai consulate did for the original visa is the solution I'd like to see.  

What the hell are the other embassies doing that makes it so their letters are still being accepted at immigration?  

 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Nowisee

[Tanoshi]

16 hours ago, pookiki said:

For those expat retirees who have been relying on TransferWise to make your monthly transfers of 65.000 baht to satisfy Thai immigration requirements for extension of stays, please be advised that TransferWise has changed their 'partnering' bank in Thailand.

Since when?

I just confirmed with a friend who I know makes a transfer on 8th of each month.

His July 8th transfer is coded as FTT in his BKK passbook, the transferring partner was BKK on his TW transfer receipt.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, pookiki said:

In thinking more about this issue, there would appear to me two very simple solutions:

 

1.  Banks could change the coding to state: 'International transfer using interbank SMART process' (or something similar to show that the transfer originated from overseas.)

 

2.  TransferWise could add an additional nominal fee for 'tagging' transfers to specific banks outside their 'partnering' bank institutions in a particular country.

The problem and simple solution you refer to is due to the third world Thai bank processing procedures of International transfers into the Country.

 

Regardless of the method used to make a transfer the SWIFT code for the relevant bank must be included.

Individual branches don't have a SWIFT code, that's reserved for the HQ, so subsequently all foreign transfers go to the HQ of the bank in question, before being transferred to your local account.

 

It's the inability of most banks HQ's to forward the source of the transfer to your local branch, therefore only the transfer from their HQ to your local account is recorded. A 'local transfer' coding.

 

The information required to satisfy TI's requirements must therefore come from the HQ's database where the foreign transfer information is held.

This can be in the form of 'credit receipts' or request of statement of 'International Transfers'.

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Tanoshi

[how241]

In my opinion,  this whole thing that Thailand is going will just come back to hurt them. As long as someone can show they have money to live on,  does it really matter where and how it came to them. I am sure the real money laundering people have other ways and use much larger amounts than the average expat who is retiring here. I could be wrong.

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Since when?

I just confirmed with a friend who I know makes a transfer on 8th of each month.

His July 8th transfer is coded as FTT in his BKK passbook, the transferring partner was BKK on his TW transfer receipt.

He was lucky, the automated system chose Bkk bank for that transfer, next month it could be Kasikorn, unless you telephone your country office after initiating but not yet sending money to their account and asking them to manually route it to BKK bank it is the luck of the draw, after they confirm they will route it to BK then send.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, how241 said:

In my opinion,  this whole thing that Thailand is going will just come back to hurt them. As long as someone can show they have money to live on,  does it really matter where and how it came to them. I am sure the real money laundering people have other ways and use much larger amounts than the average expat who is retiring here. I could be wrong.

You think this will worry the average IO? nothing will bite his butt if he goes by the book but If you have a good relation to your IO and the bank things can work out OK whether FTT or SMT but it's all a matter of luck and not a certainty.

[soisanuk]

19 hours ago, pookiki said:

For those expat retirees who have been relying on TransferWise to make your monthly transfers of 65.000 baht to satisfy Thai immigration requirements for extension of stays, please be advised that TransferWise has changed their 'partnering' bank in Thailand.

TransferWise (TW) has more than one partner bank in Thailand.  Bangkok Bank is still one of those partner banks, but in the early part of this month, many of us that have Bangkok Bank accounts received a shock, including me, when they used Kasikorn Bank (another banking partner) to initially receive the transferred funds. Kasikorn then transferred the funds to Bangkok Bank for deposit in the account, but as pointed out, it was coded as a domestic transfer rather than International.  

 

I renewed my retirement extension last month at Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration in Jomtien. Although I had bank statements signed by the bank for the previous 12 months; the Immigration Officer still wanted a bank letter listing all the foreign source deposits into my account the the period which I had to go to the Branch where I opened my account to get (they printed out a "credit advice" for each deposit (fee 500 baht) and then prepared the letter (fee 100 baht) - Immigration only wanted the bank letter.   So, when I saw on my TW receipt that they were sending my July transfer through Kasikorn Bank (shows up at the bottom of the receipt which is linked from email telling my my transfer is on its way), I knew there was a problem as it would not be coded as an International transfer.

 

Since I knew that at my next renewal, the Bangkok Bank letter would not include this transfer, I contacted TW support and asked how I could ensure future transfers went to Bangkok Bank - as a result, they did confirm that Bangkok Bank was still a partner bank and had arranged for my next deposit to go direct to Bangkok Bank, but they would not guarantee that future deposits would not go through one of their other partner banks in Thailand.  I sent a second transfer for about 70,000 baht for which the receipt showed it was sent direct to Bangkok Bank and when it arrived yesterday  (July 12th) I rec'd my usual SMS message of an International deposit and it was coded as FTT.

 

A friend of mine that this also happened to, obtained from Bangkok Bank a "reference number" that he could use to go to Kasikorn bank and ask for a Credit Advice showing it was an international transfer.  My friend opted instead to send a second transfer as a domestic ACH transfer through Bangkok Bank's NY branch -- although they announced they would no longer accept domestic ACH transfers as of April 1, they are still allowing such transfers to go through -- another thread on Thaivisa.com includes information a poster received from Bangkok Bank that they would continue to process Gov't pensions as domestic ACH transfers until January 2020, but they will cease personal bank to bank transfers effective September 1.  So, for August, I think I will try the NY branch route - if it doesn't go through, then TW again and hope it goes direct to my Bangkok Bank account. 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by soisanuk

[thailand49]

6 hours ago, Nowisee said:

These proposals might seem like a very simple solution, but the "could" part of it is the weak link.
 

This has the potential to turn into a major issue for a lot of monthly income extension people.

 

What is your solution when they're sitting there at the immigration desk and the IO says denied, cannot.

I agree, the solution for the embassies to verify the name on the required pension document, just as the thai consulate did for the original visa is the solution I'd like to see.  

What the hell are the other embassies doing that makes it so their letters are still being accepted at immigration?  

 

 

To be honest I serious doubt any of the others are doing anything. I know a number of Mainland Chinese here in Thailand and they are doing even less that what the Americans were doing!  He walked in 10 minutes later he was out I'm sure that is plenty of time to verify all those so call documents?????

 

[luckyluke]

9 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

He walked in 10 minutes later.. 

 

It takes something like that to the Vice-Consul of the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya to check that the monthly reference and amount of my pension statement, is idendical on my Belgian bank account, and divide by 12 the net amount on my tax letter. 

 

She than put the words "It is certified that..." in the Letter of Income. 

 

[Thailand J]

54 minutes ago, soisanuk said:

they printed out a "credit advice" for each deposit (fee 500 baht)

I have always get a  'credit advice' whenever an international tranfer has arrived. I have never ever had to pay, at SCB, KBank or BBL.

Something new ?

[Nowisee]

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

It takes something like that to the Vice-Consul of the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya to check that the monthly reference and amount of my pension statement, is idendical on my Belgian bank account, and divide by 12 the net amount on my tax letter. 

 

She than put the words "It is certified that..." in the Letter of Income. 

 

 

Not very difficult or complicated.  Verify name, verify amount.  Stamped, good.    Even immigration should be able to handle that.  I'll highlight what they need to see to help them.  

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, Nowisee said:

Not very difficult or complicated. 

Except maybe that in my case everything I provide is in Flemish. However the Vice-Consul being doing this for 15 years or more, she is familiar with those documents. 

She than issue the L.o.I. in English for the Immigration officer. 

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

He was lucky, the automated system chose Bkk bank for that transfer, next month it could be Kasikorn, unless you telephone your country office after initiating but not yet sending money to their account and asking them to manually route it to BKK bank it is the luck of the draw, after they confirm they will route it to BK then send.

Yes, that's true. My July 2019 payment went adrift, I have requested to TW to always use my BKK bank as the recipient of my funds, which they have tagged, and I have to (Skype) phone them each time I'm making a transfer to ensure this. PITA.

 

As a follow up, I have asked a very pretty lady at my BKK branch (who understands IMM requirements) to contact K bank to send confirmation  - I'm paying for it - that the July transfer was a foreign transaction. Whether that will transpire is... ??

 

Good grief, nowadays electronic money transfers are the norm, and whatever TW system uses, the funds origin came from my UK bank and ended up in my BKK bank account as stipulated. The days when actual money passes hands is long gone.

[HHTel]

22 hours ago, pookiki said:

noted that the transfer would take five days as opposed to the normal three.

I use TW (the last one was a month ago) and it's always taken a matter of hours, not days!

[chilly07]

After the UK embassy stopped issuing income letters In order to obtain a FTT entry I emailed Transferwise before putting them in funds and they routed everything via BB. Now they have set me up with a specific recipient always routed via BB and always shown as FTT. Has worked 12 times without fail. Yes the embassy should reverse its decision as the Danish embassy has done and confirm the validity of pension statements submitted to them!!! No data protection problems with that especially P60s!!!

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Yes the embassy should reverse its decision as the Danish embassy has done and confirm the validity of pension statements submitted to them!!! No data protection problems with that especially P60s!!!

The Danish Embassy doesn't verify anything, they certify your signature.

Can you or any Embassy authenticate a P60.

 

The FCO can only verify public documents, such as Marriage certificates and Educational degrees, not private sector documents such as P60's, or Pension statements.

[Tanoshi]

25 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

After the UK embassy stopped issuing income letters In order to obtain a FTT entry I emailed Transferwise before putting them in funds and they routed everything via BB. Now they have set me up with a specific recipient always routed via BB and always shown as FTT. Has worked 12 times without fail.

I contacted the UK office back in January and requested they 'tag' my account to always send the wire to their BKK office. I don't contact them after each transfer.

7 transfers, 7 FTT's.

[VBF]

21 hours ago, jackdd said:

There is already a topic about this, even on page 1:

 

Yes with many of these points already addressed.

I wish people would CHECK before starting new threads - looking at you  @pookiki

Perhaps the mods could lock one or other of these threads please (?)

Edited July 13, 2019 by VBF

[pookiki]

8 minutes ago, VBF said:

Yes with many of these points already addressed.

I wish people would CHECK before starting new threads - looking at you  @pookiki

Perhaps the mods could lock one or other of these threads please (?)

For some reason I haven't been getting the same frequency of emails from TVF for news or forums. If I had seen this, I would not have started a new thread. Despite my mistake, there is a wide divergence in information on exactly what TransferWise is doing.  The only definitive answer is that TransferWise will not guarantee how you get your transfer even if you do request a 'tag'.  As such, I think the 'partnering' banks for TransferWise should establish a new code to insure that all future transfers into Thailand are noted as 'international' transfers. However, this suggestion/solution will most likely fall on deaf ears.  Sorry if I ruined your day by making a new thread.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, pookiki said:

As such, I think the 'partnering' banks for TransferWise should establish a new code to insure that all future transfers into Thailand are noted as 'international' transfers. However, this suggestion/solution will most likely fall on deaf ears.  Sorry if I ruined your day by making a new thread.

Read my post #13 for the underlying problem.