Entering Thailand by air several times per year for short visits

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, ctrunfree said:

We spend just under a month in Thailand each year, as well as one night stopovers to and from Europe from Australia two or three times a year (ie up to 8 arrivals per year).  Having been doing this for years, and never a problem.  Always Visa exempt, and Australian passports.  We are upright looking citizens in our 60s though!

The only problem I can see for people entering Thailand multiple times a year, but generally not living here, is if in the future, the biometric data base takes discretion away from the IO's,

 

Then it will just come down to a simple maths formula of how many entries in a period of time.  

 

Many say it will never happen, but never say never where Thailand is concerned.   

[Briggsy]

Just now, Leaver said:

The only problem I can see for people entering Thailand multiple times a year, but generally not living here, is if in the future, the biometric data base takes discretion away from the IO's,

 

Then it will just come down to a simple maths formula of how many entries in a period of time.  

 

Many say it will never happen, but never say never where Thailand is concerned.   

They have already tried (and abandoned) the simple maths formula. They lacked the software to do it and and IO's were totalling up days on their calculators or fingers. Long queues were caused. 

 

But who knows, it may return. I doubt it though. It would give foreigners an avenue of appeal. I think the old flicky through the passport method is here to stay for a while followed by the no discussion stamp of denial.

[Leaver]

22 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

They have already tried (and abandoned) the simple maths formula. They lacked the software to do it and and IO's were totalling up days on their calculators or fingers. Long queues were caused. 

 

But who knows, it may return. I doubt it though. It would give foreigners an avenue of appeal. I think the old flicky through the passport method is here to stay for a while followed by the no discussion stamp of denial.

Obviously, I mean a data base centrally controlled.  The IO sees on a screen your amount of arrivals, the data base allows the IO to stamp you in, but you are also stamped not to re-enter before, say, 3 months, or 6 months, because you have exceeded time in Thailand, frequencies, or both, but I would say time in Thailand will be the main criteria.. 

 

It will be out of the IO's hands.  Nothing for him to add up.  Come back in that window period and you are refused entry.  Simple.  Then, it will be implement on the land crossings.

 

The other method they could use is e-visas, for those wanting 60/90 days.  You must apply online prior, then you are granted, or refused. 

 

I can see the biometrics stopping boarder shopping in the future. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Leaver

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

Obviously, I mean a data base centrally controlled.  The IO sees on a screen your amount of arrivals, the data base allows the IO  to stamped you in, but you are also stamped not to re-enter before, say, 3 months, or 6 months, because you have exceeded times, frequencies, or both. 

 

It will be out of the IO's hands.  Nothing for him to add up.  Come back in that window period and you are refused entry.  Simple.  Then, it will be implement on the land crossings.

 

The other method they could use is e-visas, for those wanting 60/90 days.  You must apply online prior, then you are granted, or refused. 

 

I can see the biometrics stopping boarder shopping in the future. 

Good suggestion for an immigration system that would be consistent, equal for all (black/white, young/old, rich/poor), devoid of officer discretion and clear for the foreign visitor to adhere to.

 

And that is precisely why you will never ever see it here.

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Good suggestion for an immigration system that would be consistent, equal for all (black/white, young/old, rich/poor), devoid of officer discretion and clear for the foreign visitor to adhere to.

 

And that is precisely why you will never ever see it here.

I made a slight edit after your post.

 

Yes, I agree, the Thai's like to work in a grey area, especially when dealing with foreigners.  They like to be able to move the goal posts within the grey area, at any time.  Can't have foreigners having and rights, can we?  ????

 

My thinking is, they are spending money on a biometric system, so I am sure they are going to use it to its fullest capabilities, and I suspect that somehow that will have something to do with extracting more money from those wanting to visit and / or live here.  ????

 

It has nothing to do with "Good guys in.  Bad guys out." 

[Fuzzyken]

Thanks to all for the comments and insights, it would certainly help if limits were clearly stated. I wonder whether anyone has information as to immigrations view of those arriving by air (unspecified number of entries) where a person has additionally made 2 permitted border crossings in the same calendar year.

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzyken said:

it would certainly help if limits were clearly stated.

It makes you wonder how much "business" the country is losing because no one knows if they are near their limit, or not, and rather than risk being denied entry, just go elsewhere for their next holiday, and leave longer spaces between visits to Thailand, to reduce the risk of going over a limit that no one knows what it is.  ????

[natway09]

Chances are that if you fly in twice a year only nobody will deny you entry.

If you start coming  6 times a year then you may be in trouble 

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

Exactly. The problem with hard and fast rules is they set a goalpost for people to work around. Letting the IO decide keeps them a couple of steps ahead. 

Fancy if they extended this concept of yours to your annual extensions at your local Immigration Office. You might be singing a different tune then. 

[lkv]

7 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Fancy if they extended this concept of yours to your annual extensions at your local Immigration Office. You might be singing a different tune then. 

All they have to do is charge 80-100K insurance per year, then everybody will either go Elite or go travelling.

[Sheryl]

13 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Chances are that if you fly in twice a year only nobody will deny you entry.

If you start coming  6 times a year then you may be in trouble 

 

Not  necessarily. Depends on length of stay...and just how often is "several" times.

 

It is quite common for expats living in neighboring countries to come frequently to Thailand for medical care, shopping, holiday etc. If the trips are short enough and spaced far enough apart to support that I think he'll be fine, just explain that he lives in Cambodia and comes to Thailand to shop etc. (and of course have a r/t ticket but sounds like he would anyhow).

 

Now if these stays are 3 -  4 weeks long and occurring 6 or more times a year, that would be more likely to raise questions. 

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, Fuzzyken said:

Thanks to all for the comments and insights, it would certainly help if limits were clearly stated. I wonder whether anyone has information as to immigrations view of those arriving by air (unspecified number of entries) where a person has additionally made 2 permitted border crossings in the same calendar year.

They always flick through the passport looking at the stamps. Thus the more stamps you have the more likely it is you will be pulled out of line for questioning. 

 

As a rule of thumb, if you have spent over half of any significant period of time (a year / a half-year) in Thailand on visa exempts or tourist visas, you are skating on thin ice. But this is only a rule of thumb.

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

Joe, I've actually come across information that states that the number of times you can enter via an international airport in a calendar year on a 30 day exemption is NOW 4.

Similar information I heard, more accurately, said 4 such entries would get you simply flagged and perhaps initiate further scrutiny. No official limit on entries. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by jacko45k

[Fuzzyken]

Interesting that you get only 2 entries across a land border but unspecified number of entries by air. After doing your 2 land border crossings can you then fly in for your unspecified number of entries. If you have used up all your air entries can you then do 2 border crossings ?  I'm finding it difficult to understand the rational in all this, it's like playing a game where some of the rules are withheld.  

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, Fuzzyken said:

After doing your 2 land border crossings can you then fly in for your unspecified number of entries.

Technically yes, in reality, no. There is an unspecified, unofficial limit.

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzyken said:

If you have used up all your air entries can you then do 2 border crossings ?

The 2 land border crossings are per calendar year. You can enter twice by land on visa exempt in a calendar year (1 Jan - 31 Dec). It doesn't matter what order you do air and land entries in.

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzyken said:

it's like playing a game where some of the rules are withheld.  

Yes, you are correct. It is Kafkaesque. It is designed like that. All government systems in Thailand are like that. It gives government officials the wiggle room to let connected people do what they like and the power to crush those that are not connected.

[thaifarang1]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Similar information I heard, more accurately, said 4 such entries would get you simply flagged and perhaps initiate further scrutiny. No official limit on entries. 

Interesting; does anybody has more information on this? that would make sense; if I remember well, it was reported that the system flagged you for extra-scrutiny after 6 cumulative entries since mid 2015 or something like that. In 2019 that would mean that even sporadic visitors 2 times each year would be flagged. 4 times per calendar year seems reasonable...

[Parker2100]

22 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

 

I certainly don't understand the relevance of obtaining a Non Imm O from the UK when he lives in Cambodia and how that would help with his entries into Thailand.

Who is living in Cambodia?  I cannot find the posts that you are referring to so that I can follow along in the conversation.

Some of my posts were deleted, so if you are talking about me, no, I am here in Bangkok.  Was told not to come back unless Non-O but let in this time.  Going to Cambodia next and will be getting my mail there.

 

[Parker2100]

21 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

Exactly. The problem with hard and fast rules is they set a goalpost for people to work around. Letting the IO decide keeps them a couple of steps ahead. 

Also, "hard-fast" rules would have the affect of official rule-following visitors not getting denied when they are already at the border or in the airport.  Also, it would help to keep IO Agents accountable for decisions.  In the way an umpire or referee is held accountable (if even, after the fact).

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Parker2100 said:

Who is living in Cambodia? 

The OP.

On 7/15/2019 at 12:28 PM, Fuzzyken said:

I am a UK passport holder living in Cambodia. 

 

[Parker2100]

 

 

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3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The OP.
I am a UK passport holder living in Cambodia.

 

Good, it wasn't me.

I would have known that if my posts were not deleted.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Parker2100

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Fuzzyken said:

Interesting that you get only 2 entries across a land border but unspecified number of entries by air. After doing your 2 land border crossings can you then fly in for your unspecified number of entries. If you have used up all your air entries can you then do 2 border crossings ?  I'm finding it difficult to understand the rational in all this, it's like playing a game where some of the rules are withheld.  

Historically land crossings were used by visa runners — living and possibly/probably working illegally — to extend their stay; which is why that option was shut down.

 

There is no set limit by air because IMO they do not want to stop multiple short visits. Instead the system flags when someone reached 6 entries and leaves it up to the IO to see if the person is effectively living in the country, or is simply a frequent visitor. IO’s have discretional power to deny anyone they believe to be staying too long regardless of the number of entries.

 

It’s time spent in the country they are concerned about, not the number of entries.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, elviajero said:

.....leaves it up to the IO to see if the person is effectively living in the country, or is simply a frequent visitor. IO’s have discretional power to deny anyone they believe to be staying too long regardless of the number of entries.

 

It’s time spent in the country they are concerned about, not the number of entries.

 

Exactly.

 

What they are after is people using tourist visas and/or visa exemptions to live here (and possibly work illegally here).

 

IOs are well aware that expats living & working in Cambodia, Laos etc like to come often to Thailand for shopping, medical care, holiday etc and if your pattern of stays looks consistent with that -- and clearly not consistent with living here --  you'll be fine.

 

I have heard (not sure) the IOs at the  Cambodian border crossings make exceptions to the visa exempt entry rule in the case of foreigners living in those countries who come for short (1-3 day) trips. Pretty common (and understandable) for foreigners  living in western  Cambodia to cross the border for the weekend.

[Parker2100]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

Historically land crossings were used by visa runners — living and possibly/probably working illegally — to extend their stay; which is why that option was shut down.

 

There is no set limit by air because IMO they do not want to stop multiple short visits. Instead the system flags when someone reached 6 entries and leaves it up to the IO to see if the person is effectively living in the country, or is simply a frequent visitor. IO’s have discretional power to deny anyone they believe to be staying too long regardless of the number of entries.

 

It’s time spent in the country they are concerned about, not the number of entries.

Your information is old.  Recently people are getting denied entry (or flagged) at 2 and 3 VE entries by air.  
 

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, Parker2100 said:

Your information is old.  Recently people are getting denied entry (or flagged) at 2 and 3 VE entries by air.  
 

No it’s not. The 6 entry flag is still in place. That has never stopped IO’s denying entry for less.

[fourpack]

Why do people over think things.

My daughter comes to Thailand 6 to 7 times a year and usually stays between 14 and 21 days 30 over an Xmas period.

Never once has she been asked why she comes so often.

 

[treetops]

On 7/16/2019 at 6:59 AM, TigerandDog said:

Joe, I've actually come across information that states that the number of times you can enter via an international airport in a calendar year on a 30 day exemption is NOW 4. Unfortunately I'm unable to locate the link to post it here. I do have a friend who was refused entry on his 5th visit last year at Swampy, so IO's appear to be enforcing this new limitation.

 

I received the latest application guidance notes from the Thai Consulate in Glasgow, UK just yesterday.  They state:

Quote

After 3 visits in one year to Thailand under the 30 day rule, ALL visitors MUST apply for a tourist visa - valid for 60 days.

 

[Parker2100]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

No it’s not. The 6 entry flag is still in place. That has never stopped IO’s denying entry for less.

The 6 flag "rule" is an unofficial rule.  So, my dear Sir, if they are flagging/denying people for less, it is the new rule.  People are telling you there is a new rule of 2 because there are reports on this forum that people are being sent to the Supervisors office (and denied) for 2 and 3.

I had 2 and this happened to me on July 2.  I was admitted after some negotiation.  So I am on my 3rd and they explained to me that I am living in Thailand for being here for 2.5 months this year.  When I go, they said I will only be allowed back with a Non O.

Your info is old.  Stop advising with that info.

Also, I was the 3rd in my Immigration line to get sent to the Princi...err...Investigators office.

[Parker2100]

55 minutes ago, fourpack said:

Why do people over think things.

My daughter comes to Thailand 6 to 7 times a year and usually stays between 14 and 21 days 30 over an Xmas period.

Never once has she been asked why she comes so often.

 

Could be a new set of rules for Immigration.  Might want to watch and see.

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, Parker2100 said:

The 6 flag "rule" is an unofficial rule.  So, my dear Sir, if they are flagging/denying people for less, it is the new rule.  People are telling you there is a new rule of 2 because there are reports on this forum that people are being sent to the Supervisors office (and denied) for 2 and 3.

I had 2 and this happened to me on July 2.  I was admitted after some negotiation.  So I am on my 3rd and they explained to me that I am living in Thailand for being here for 2.5 months this year.  When I go, they said I will only be allowed back with a Non O.

Your info is old.  Stop advising with that info.

Also, I was the 3rd in my Immigration line to get sent to the Princi...err...Investigators office.

You’re not understanding what I’m writing.

 

IO’s have been denying entry to people with less than 6 entries for years. The flag system was introduced, not as a limit, but to help IO’s with the clampdown on VE use.

 

Nothing has changed recently other than IO’s getting tougher with long term tourism in general. The 6 entry flag is still in place and IO’s can still deny entry for less.

[Parker2100]

16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You’re not understanding what I’m writing.

 

IO’s have been denying entry to people with less than 6 entries for years. The flag system was introduced, not as a limit, but to help IO’s with the clampdown on VE use.

 

Nothing has changed recently other than IO’s getting tougher with long term tourism in general. The 6 entry flag is still in place and IO’s can still deny entry for less.

I know exactly what you are saying.  How could you possibly know what comes on their terminal?  The only way any of us know there is a rule is because of experiences of others.  How any times does someone need to get nailed for 2 or 3 before you say "oh wait...I guess this is the new rule?"

So, let me get this straight.  You are saying this is the rule, except when its not.  Hmmm...I see.  A little like the weather man saying "50% chance of rain."  He can't lose.