nickstav Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 9 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said: Not really.How about you? Let it go FFF. Not worth your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickstav Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Neeranam said: Whatever next? Drug addicts will feel emotionally unstable if they don't get some opiods? Alkies need a daily beer? People addicted to drugs and alcoholics are prescribed medications to help overcome those problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skallywag Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 9 hours ago, AverageBloke said: someone with diabetes who finds themselves on the wrong side of the law should be denied insulin. This is where I differ. No one "finds themselves on the wrong side of the law". We have free will, people in jail have committed crimes. People who commit crimes against humanity deserve in-humane treatment IMO. Emotional and physical distress you can live with, Without insulin you can die . Apples and Oranges If wrongly convicted, that is another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 9 hours ago, pornprong said: You are advocating denying medication. Bravo! What a fantastic human being you must be. Letting nature take its course, what someone wants and what nature wants are two different things, nature wins every time when it comes to the hardware. There has been a mistake with the software delivery, that is unfortunate but nature is adamant regarding its hardware, it can be tweaked of course but faulty software is never going to work properly for a flawless hardware no matter how much it is butchered to fit. A man born without legs is never going to run a marathon no matter how much he wants to, life isn't always fair, it's the way it is, if you can't change a situation or walk away from it there is only the grace of total acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickstav Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 8 hours ago, NCC1701A said: sounds like a few expats i know. one is buying his Thai girlfriend a house right now. He obviously didn't learn the first commandment for dealing with a Thai girlfriend, thou shalt learn how to say "NO". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickstav Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Skallywag said: This is where I differ. No one "finds themselves on the wrong side of the law". We have free will, people in jail have committed crimes. People who commit crimes against humanity deserve in-humane treatment IMO. Emotional and physical distress you can live with, Without insulin you can die . Apples and Oranges If wrongly convicted, that is another thread What makes you think we have free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, nickstav said: He obviously didn't learn the first commandment for dealing with a Thai girlfriend, thou shalt learn how to say "NO". This is indeed sage advice but must be one of the toughest lessons to learn and usually learnt the hard way and often way to late!One must be prepared to endure a seemingly endless verbal diatribe and vitriol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, nickstav said: What makes you think we have free will? Ever since the 1980's where Benjamin Libet showed through experiments that there is no free will it has been proved over and over again that he was right. Reaffirming the spiritual masters conclusions from thousands of years, "you are not the doer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickstav Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, soalbundy said: Ever since the 1980's where Benjamin Libet showed through experiments that there is no free will it has been proved over and over again that he was right. Reaffirming the spiritual masters conclusions from thousands of years, "you are not the doer" I can recommend a series of lectures, available on YouTube, by neuro-scientist Sam Harris, on free will and the lack thereof. Part of the lectures deal with those who commit crimes and how we should view them (relevant to the topic here). His lectures are quite entertaining and amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickstav Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said: This is indeed sage advice but must be one of the toughest lessons to learn and usually learnt the hard way and often way to late!One must be prepared to endure a seemingly endless verbal diatribe and vitriol. The verbal abuse that follows is usually in rapid-fire Thai that I don't understand, so I just keep saying NO 555. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, soalbundy said: Letting nature take its course, what someone wants and what nature wants are two different things, nature wins every time when it comes to the hardware. There has been a mistake with the software delivery, that is unfortunate but nature is adamant regarding its hardware, it can be tweaked of course but faulty software is never going to work properly for a flawless hardware no matter how much it is butchered to fit. A man born without legs is never going to run a marathon no matter how much he wants to, life isn't always fair, it's the way it is, if you can't change a situation or walk away from it there is only the grace of total acceptance. Nature and natural I find are strange words where we as humans try to disassociate ourselves from the rest of existence as if we are not a result or part of the "natural" world or even a product of "nature".I have much difficulty accepting this way of thinking as it seems to pertain to the idea that we are not of this world or even the universe if that is so then what is the alternative? I believe we are natural we are part of nature and that everything we do is natural,it is rare that I use all inclusive words like everything but I mean exactly that everything we do is natural and a part of the evolutionary process.Therefore it is quite natural for some people to want to be transgender if they so desire.It is also quite natural to want and ask for hormones whilst being incarcerated.If you wish to be considered unnatural that is also natural,yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, nickstav said: Thanks for your post. Obviously, not much empathy here. I am astounded about not only the lack of empathy shown, but also the lack of understanding regarding transgender people in general. Transgender is not about "wanting" to be a woman, it is about identifying as a woman, mostly from a very early age. I suggest those who lack insight into gender dysphoria, and the need for hormone therapy read the link https://www.webmd.com/sex/gender-dysphoria People who have gender dysphoria feel strongly that their gender does not match their biology. Some basic information on hormone therapy below https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy Transgender people using hormone treatment need lifelong medical support and care. Hormonal treatment for gender dysphoria resembles hormone replacement therapy for people with hypogonadism. https://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j5027 I hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesetat2013 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 12 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said: Not all who go to prison commit crimes. True. But most all transgenders who go to prison do commit crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, FarFlungFalang said: Nature and natural I find are strange words where we as humans try to disassociate ourselves from the rest of existence as if we are not a result or part of the "natural" world or even a product of "nature".I have much difficulty accepting this way of thinking as it seems to pertain to the idea that we are not of this world or even the universe if that is so then what is the alternative? I believe we are natural we are part of nature and that everything we do is natural,it is rare that I use all inclusive words like everything but I mean exactly that everything we do is natural and a part of the evolutionary process.Therefore it is quite natural for some people to want to be transgender if they so desire.It is also quite natural to want and ask for hormones whilst being incarcerated.If you wish to be considered unnatural that is also natural,yes? Yes, 'it is as it is', the refusal of the authorities to provide hormones is also 'it is as it is'. It is life happening but it is happening for no one because 'you' as a concept don't really exist. There is the perceiver and the perceived, both are products of mind, of the concept of 'me'. Quantum physics shows us that matter doesn't exist, only packets of energy, experiments have shown that free will doesn't exist, life apparently happens but nobody is in control. The apparent 'me' can accept or fight for a different illusion, it all still remains an illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornprong Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Chazar said: Rubbish! theyre not going to die without it Not all medication is lifesaving, many medications act to relieve pain and suffering - be it physical or mental. Having such a harsh, unforgiving and inhumane attitude towards strangers for no tangible benefit to yourself suggest, at the very least, a deeply flawed, confused and unpleasant character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornprong Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, nickstav said: Thanks for your post. Obviously, not much empathy here. More disappointing is that, in this particular case, there is no logical reason for the lack of empathy. It would cost not a single cent/satang for those that post here to show a little empathy and cost them even less to simply remain silent - yet they choose to publicly air their nastiness. The type of person who wishes ill upon a stranger is to be pitied. They are merely trying to obscure or justify personal deficiencies or failures at the expense of others........how sad for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, soalbundy said: Yes, 'it is as it is', the refusal of the authorities to provide hormones is also 'it is as it is'. It is life happening but it is happening for no one because 'you' as a concept don't really exist. There is the perceiver and the perceived, both are products of mind, of the concept of 'me'. Quantum physics shows us that matter doesn't exist, only packets of energy, experiments have shown that free will doesn't exist, life apparently happens but nobody is in control. The apparent 'me' can accept or fight for a different illusion, it all still remains an illusion. Ramesh Balsekar and Wei Wu Wei melded ancient philosophy and modern science beautifully on this theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornprong Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, soalbundy said: Letting nature take its course, what someone wants and what nature wants are two different things, nature wins every time when it comes to the hardware. There has been a mistake with the software delivery, that is unfortunate but nature is adamant regarding its hardware, it can be tweaked of course but faulty software is never going to work properly for a flawless hardware no matter how much it is butchered to fit. A man born without legs is never going to run a marathon no matter how much he wants to, life isn't always fair, it's the way it is, if you can't change a situation or walk away from it there is only the grace of total acceptance. Life expectancy across the globe used to be around 30 years, science has raised that to over 70 years in most places. Mankind's entire existence has been built around refusing to let nature take its course. Chemotherapy, for example, is not a natural occurring event. So, you're saying what here? For some reason, we should, as a species, alter our behaviour for the sole reason of making life more unpleasant for a few transgender Thais? Why would you even bother to type such nonsense? BTW - https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/alana-hurov/amputee-runs-toronto-marathon_b_2831451.html -https://www.goodthingsguy.com/people/kacey-mccallister/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 48 minutes ago, soalbundy said: Yes, 'it is as it is', the refusal of the authorities to provide hormones is also 'it is as it is'. It is life happening but it is happening for no one because 'you' as a concept don't really exist. There is the perceiver and the perceived, both are products of mind, of the concept of 'me'. Quantum physics shows us that matter doesn't exist, only packets of energy, experiments have shown that free will doesn't exist, life apparently happens but nobody is in control. The apparent 'me' can accept or fight for a different illusion, it all still remains an illusion. Yes I agree that it is just as natural for the authorities to deny his requests.The definition of concept is an abstract idea or general notion,as for me as a not being an abstract idea or a general notion well I must say that I am quite pleased about that."There is the perceiver and the perceived,both are concepts of the mind" You mean like an abstract idea or general notion?When you say quantum physics shows us that matter doesn't exist do you mean it doesn't matter?Of course matter exists because it comes back to perception and definition,as matter is defined as being of substance which is defined as the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence. and tangible is defined as a thing that is perceptible by touch,then matter does exist.Which if that is the case then I also exist by definition of the dictionary which is often used in courts of law to define stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, pornprong said: Life expectancy across the globe used to be around 30 years, science has raised that to over 70 years in most places. Mankind's entire existence has been built around refusing to let nature take its course. Chemotherapy, for example, is not a natural occurring event. So, you're saying what here? For some reason, we should alter our behaviour for the sole reason of making life more unpleasant for a few transgender Thais? Why would you even bother to type such nonsense? BTW - https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/alana-hurov/amputee-runs-toronto-marathon_b_2831451.html -https://www.goodthingsguy.com/people/kacey-mccallister/ No, I am merely saying that 'it is as it is'. 'Me' is a concept, the apparent 'me' of a transgender has taken a different direction, an unusual concept. A concept only has power if it is believed, like all religions, there is no knowing, only belief. I believe in my 'me' even though I have the clarity of understanding that I am not real, or rather both real and unreal, a persistent illusion. A transgender refuses his hardware, his 'me' wants a different illusion to the one he was born with, he has no choice in the matter, there is no choice functioning at any level for any of the 7 billion concepts of 'me'. Life is just happening, it happens without the concept of 'me' no matter how often 'me' tries to get in the way. There is no answer, no right or wrong, no doer, it just is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornprong Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, soalbundy said: No, I am merely saying that 'it is as it is'. 'Me' is a concept, the apparent 'me' of a transgender has taken a different direction, an unusual concept. A concept only has power if it is believed, like all religions, there is no knowing, only belief. I believe in my 'me' even though I have the clarity of understanding that I am not real, or rather both real and unreal, a persistent illusion. A transgender refuses his hardware, his 'me' wants a different illusion to the one he was born with, he has no choice in the matter, there is no choice functioning at any level for any of the 7 billion concepts of 'me'. Life is just happening, it happens without the concept of 'me' no matter how often 'me' tries to get in the way. There is no answer, no right or wrong, no doer, it just is. Gibberish. Give them their meds. There is no acceptable reason no to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, nickstav said: People addicted to drugs and alcoholics are prescribed medications to help overcome those problems. Not for longer than a few days, in Thai prisons anyway. Those medications given are actually much harder to come of than the actual drug or alcohol. Methadone, for heroin, and benzodiazepines, for alcohol are the worst drugs to come off of, including all illegal drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, FarFlungFalang said: Yes I agree that it is just as natural for the authorities to deny his requests.The definition of concept is an abstract idea or general notion,as for me as a not being an abstract idea or a general notion well I must say that I am quite pleased about that."There is the perceiver and the perceived,both are concepts of the mind" You mean like an abstract idea or general notion?When you say quantum physics shows us that matter doesn't exist do you mean it doesn't matter?Of course matter exists because it comes back to perception and definition,as matter is defined as being of substance which is defined as the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence. and tangible is defined as a thing that is perceptible by touch,then matter does exist.Which if that is the case then I also exist by definition of the dictionary which is often used in courts of law to define stuff. Matter is an illusion of perception. You can touch a surface of something and at that level of 'reality' it is matter, further investigation will show that the surface is comprised of atoms with vast distances between electrons and its nucleus (ie nothing) the atom itself is comprised of subatomic 'particles' we have quarks, leptons, bosons etc, packets of energy, it undoubtedly goes further. Reality is just different levels of perception, like a mirage it is both real and unreal. What is doing the perceiving ? How can a brain out of 'matter' have an ethereal experience like a thought? A transgender has a different reality, a different perception of 'me', he has no choice in the matter, likewise the different 'me's' in his environment have no choice in their reactions, it just is as it is, no control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 More disappointing is that, in this particular case, there is no logical reason for the lack of empathy. It would cost not a single cent/satang for those that post here to show a little empathy and cost them even less to simply remain silent - yet they choose to publicly air their nastiness. The type of person who wishes ill upon a stranger is to be pitied. They are merely trying to obscure or justify personal deficiencies or failures at the expense of others........how sad for them.You're right. There is no logical reason. But there is a reason. It's called transphobia and it's rampant.Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, pornprong said: Gibberish. Give them their meds. There is no acceptable reason no to. There is no free will in either choice, I am not saying give or not give, whatever happens will happen because there can be no other way. Human kind is full of itself, so important, so governing, master of their destiny, it's BS, life is just happening the way it wants to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoNowWhat Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, soalbundy said: Letting nature take its course, what someone wants and what nature wants are two different things, nature wins every time when it comes to the hardware. Yes let nature take its course...now please hand over your LIPITOR and VIAGRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornprong Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, soalbundy said: There is no free will in either choice, I am not saying give or not give, whatever happens will happen because there can be no other way. Human kind is full of itself, so important, so governing, master of their destiny, it's BS, life is just happening the way it wants to. Whether free will exists or not is irrelevant for we a simply better off to live our lives believing that practical free will does indeed exist. Hand over the meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scutty Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Shame for Lance then . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scutty Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Anyone heard that lance Whitmore sentenced to 50 years for drugs , is out yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, pornprong said: Whether free will exists or not is irrelevant for we a simply better off to live our lives believing that practical free will does indeed exist. Hand over the meds. but I don't have the choice to do so or not, either I will or I won't, I have no choice in the matter, it will happen the way life wants it to happen (if there is such a thing as 'wants to' which I doubt ) I don't take any medication but my good health isn't my doing. You are right about being mentally better of believing we have free will, indeed society couldn't function without this belief, but it is still just a belief non-the-less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.