Thai transsexual prisoners being denied hormones, says activist

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, SoNowWhat said:

Yes let nature take its course...now please hand over your LIPITOR and VIAGRA.

taking it or not taking it isn't a choice. Nature isn't really choice, it is what is nothing else.

[Skallywag]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

transsexual prisoners be allowed access to hormonal therapy behind bars

If the prison is denying friends or family to supply a legal drug to someone in prison that is wrong and inhumane.  

Legally prisoners are only able to receive medications in life threatening instances AFAIK .

 

BTW

Free will does exist unless your mind has been brainwashed to believe in pseudo-psychiatric scientists or a religious based fantasy. 

 

Breaking the law is a conscious choice.   

[hotchilli]

14 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

WhooHooo!Out of the sin bin!How do you make a hormone?

Poke her in the eye !!!

[FarFlungFalang]

55 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Matter is an illusion of perception. You can touch a surface of something and at that level of 'reality' it is matter, further investigation will show that the surface is comprised of atoms with vast distances between electrons and its nucleus (ie nothing) the atom itself is comprised of subatomic 'particles' we have quarks, leptons, bosons etc, packets of energy, it undoubtedly goes further. Reality is just different levels of perception, like a mirage it is both real and unreal. What is doing the perceiving ? How can a brain out of 'matter' have an ethereal experience like a thought? A transgender has a different reality, a different perception of 'me', he has no choice in the matter, likewise the different 'me's' in his environment have no choice in their reactions, it just is as it is, no control.

What I think you are saying is that we are locked into a preordained existence and future and that we have no choice and although there are strong arguments for this I am still unconvinced and even entertain the idea of both choice and no choice and comes down again to perception and definition."How can a brain out of "matter" have an ethereal experience like thought?I think this just goes a long way to show how little we know about the brain and I can't wait to see what those who have much bigger brains and many more functioning cells than mine come up with in the way of an answer to this question. 

[FarFlungFalang]

3 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Poke her in the eye !!!

Ah at last!Well that would probably work as well,but that's not what my older sister told me which had more to do with feet and erogenous zones to put it politely! 

[Number 6]

14 hours ago, pornprong said:

You are advocating denying medication.

Bravo!

What a fantastic human being you must be.

The pharmaceuticals are not medicating anything. There is no disease.

 

Or is there?

 

A medication (also referred to as medicine, pharmaceutical drug, or simply drug) is a drug used to diagnose, cure, treat, or prevent disease.

[Number 6]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

You're right. There is no logical reason. But there is a reason. It's called transphobia and it's rampant.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I don't think many people certainly Thai expats are 'transphobic' whatever that is. At the same time we need not promote, advocate or even accept behavior we find socially or morally misaligned with our own values. Tolerating behavior (mai bpen rai), live and let live - fine. Becoming an advocate for anything pushed by the new cultural left. Count me out.

 

Same with abortion. I will never vote for it to be legal but if it is I would not create any sort of barrier for women seeking abortions.

 

I used to be a classic liberal. The last ten years of social justice and cultural appropriation.

 

It's not about shaming, manipulation and who can tell the loudest. In a democracy, we vote. Under a junta you are pretty much told what is what.

[Jingthing]

I don't think many people certainly Thai expats are 'transphobic' whatever that is. At the same time we need not promote, advocate or even accept behavior we find socially or morally misaligned with our own values. Tolerating behavior (mai bpen rai), live and let live - fine. Becoming an advocate for anything pushed by the new cultural left. Count me out.
 
Same with abortion. I will never vote for it to be legal but if it is I would not create any sort of barrier for women seeking abortions.
 
I used to be a classic liberal. The last ten years of social justice and cultural appropriation.
 
It's not about shaming, manipulation and who can tell the loudest. In a democracy, we vote. Under a junta you are pretty much told what is what.

You don't think many expats in Thailand are transphobic?

That's hilarious.

Have you read this forum?

As far as Thai society maybe consider the actual social conditions of Thai transgender women. The majority anyway that are not from more educated backgrounds.

What messages are they given? What realistic adult jobs can most realistically aspire to?

Not many.

Entertainer
Sex worker
Waitress
Retail clerk
Thief

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[pornprong]

54 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

The pharmaceuticals are not medicating anything. There is no disease.

 

Or is there?

 

A medication (also referred to as medicine, pharmaceutical drug, or simply drug) is a drug used to diagnose, cure, treat, or prevent disease.

It is hilarious how often this happens.

Click your own "prevent disease" link mate, there you'll find the following - 

 

In humans, disease is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person. In this broader sense, it sometimes includes injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes, infections, isolated symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts and for other purposes these may be considered distinguishable categories. Diseases can affect people not only physically, but also mentally, as contracting and living with a disease can alter the affected person's perspective on life.

 

By your own post, there is a disease.

 

Numpty.

[lannarebirth]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You don't think many expats in Thailand are transphobic?

That's hilarious.

Have you read this forum?

As far as Thai society maybe consider the actual social conditions of Thai transgender women. The majority anyway that are not from more educated backgrounds.

What messages are they given? What realistic adult jobs can most realistically aspire to?

Not many.

Entertainer
Sex worker
Waitress
Retail clerk
Thief

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

You must be joking. Is there a nation on Earth more accepting of transgenders than Thailand? A full 50% of people on Thai TV shows are khatoey.

[atyclb]

16 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

WhooHooo!Out of the sin bin!How do you make a hormone?

 

 

"How do you make a hormone?"

 

dont pay her

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

16 hours ago, pornprong said:

You are advocating denying medication.

Bravo!

What a fantastic human being you must be.

The pharmaceuticals are not medicating anything. There is no disease.

 

Or is there?

 

A medication (also referred to as medicine, pharmaceutical drug, or simply drug) is a drug used to diagnose, cure, treat, or prevent disease.

 

one could argue that because the suicide rate among transgenders is so high in this case the hormone is not only supporting the transition but also safeguarding the psychologic component and reducing suicide. i think the psychiatrists will largely agree with this view

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

one could argue that because the suicide rate among transgenders is so high in this case the hormone is not only supporting the transition but also safeguarding the psychologic component and reducing suicide. i think the psychiatrists will largely agree with this view

I was thinking that as well but I didn't want to google it because I don't want to be bombarded with adverts for boob jobs for the next 10 years. 

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

"How do you make a hormone?"

 

dont pay her

It's the non paying punters that be moaning when they have to go to the ER to get a shoe heel removed from their head.

[AverageBloke]

2 hours ago, Skallywag said:

 

If the prison is denying friends or family to supply a legal drug to someone in prison that is wrong and inhumane.  

Legally prisoners are only able to receive medications in life threatening instances AFAIK .

 

BTW

Free will does exist unless your mind has been brainwashed to believe in pseudo-psychiatric scientists or a religious based fantasy. 

 

Breaking the law is a conscious choice.   

So if someone in prison were to have chronic depression would you put this under the heading of "life threatening" or would you just say tough luck your problem? 

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

47 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's the non paying punters that be moaning when they have to go to the ER to get a shoe heel removed from their head.

Or from one of their erogenous zones which causes more pain.

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

one could argue that because the suicide rate among transgenders is so high in this case the hormone is not only supporting the transition but also safeguarding the psychologic component and reducing suicide. i think the psychiatrists will largely agree with this view

I was thinking that as well but I didn't want to google it because I don't want to be bombarded with adverts for boob jobs for the next 10 years. 

 

ok just cut through the chase.  bang mod hospital in bangkok does damn nice boobs should you decide.

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

"How do you make a hormone?"

 

dont pay her

It's the non paying punters that be moaning when they have to go to the ER to get a shoe heel removed from their head.

 

 

its ok no need to virtue signal, we all know you have never missed a payment

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

ok just cut through the chase.  bang mod hospital in bangkok does damn nice boobs should you decide.

Not too interested but I kind of like the operation for transgender men. It's always good to have a backup. 

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

What I think you are saying is that we are locked into a preordained existence and future and that we have no choice and although there are strong arguments for this I am still unconvinced and even entertain the idea of both choice and no choice and comes down again to perception and definition."How can a brain out of "matter" have an ethereal experience like thought?I think this just goes a long way to show how little we know about the brain and I can't wait to see what those who have much bigger brains and many more functioning cells than mine come up with in the way of an answer to this question. 

No preordained anything, life happens, it just is, a wave of probabilities. I do believe in cause and effect but each cause can be traced back to the big bang, life tumbling and dancing towards an effect which in itself becomes a new cause.

[RJRS1301]

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

one could argue that because the suicide rate among transgenders is so high in this case the hormone is not only supporting the transition but also safeguarding the psychologic component and reducing suicide. i think the psychiatrists will largely agree with this view

You are correct, it is one of the safeguards against self harm. Well recognised in therapy

[Jingthing]

Just now, RJRS1301 said:

You are correct, it is one of the safeguards against self harm. Well recognised in therapy

I assumed that was probably the case which is why I asked for some opinions from doctors. But the tranphobic mean spirited people here saying deny medication obviously couldn't care less.

That said, clearly there are many medical needs being unmet in prisons here and in much of the world.

So does it make sense to focus only on these cases? Probably not. 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

one could argue that because the suicide rate among transgenders is so high in this case the hormone is not only supporting the transition but also safeguarding the psychologic component and reducing suicide. i think the psychiatrists will largely agree with this view

No, even in the West where hormone treatment is available suicides of transgender people is way higher than in the general population, there would be a lack of acceptance in society as a cause for this probably or a general mental health problem which resulted him or her being a transgender in the first place.

[Matzzon]

17 hours ago, AverageBloke said:

So by your reckoning someone with diabetes who finds themselves on the wrong side of the law should be denied insulin. 

No, now you are comparing a deadly situation with pain and change of mindset for the time beeing. Not a fair comparision due to there is no deadly situation, more than self-inflicted pain.

Now it´s time to stop this nonsense with that transsexuals should have special rights. They just have to walk the path they chose in life and deal with the consequences of their actions like everybody else. 

Time for running to mummy when you droppes the ice cream is long gone and over. 

[Number 6]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You don't think many expats in Thailand are transphobic?

That's hilarious.

Have you read this forum?

As far as Thai society maybe consider the actual social conditions of Thai transgender women. The majority anyway that are not from more educated backgrounds.

What messages are they given? What realistic adult jobs can most realistically aspire to?

Not many.

Entertainer
Sex worker
Waitress
Retail clerk
Thief

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Social conditions? More like life choices.

 

Many real women doing those jobs. You don't have the same concern for them. That's clearly sexist. You're just a homosexual advocate. That's fine. I'm not. That's fine too.

 

Like I said, especially us being foreigners. Most expats are quite ok with transexual Thai people. If nothing else, it's their country. 

 

Transexuals are given a good ribbing by Thai society in general and often very involved in self deprecating humor on TV.

 

You need to chill out. No one needs to entertain your opinion and this is not your home country. Fortunately, there's still some cultural sensibility left here.

 

[FarFlungFalang]

36 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

No preordained anything, life happens, it just is, a wave of probabilities. I do believe in cause and effect but each cause can be traced back to the big bang, life tumbling and dancing towards an effect which in itself becomes a new cause.

Big Bang is just a theory I never went for and thought has been pretty much found to be hog wash.Like the universe is thirteen light years across,never went for that one either,or the multiple universe theory as uni means one not multiples of one.

[RJRS1301]

32 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

No, even in the West where hormone treatment is available suicides of transgender people is way higher than in the general population, there would be a lack of acceptance in society as a cause for this probably or a general mental health problem which resulted him or her being a transgender in the first place.

Those who receive therapy and hormone therapy have less incidents of self harm in many instances.

Yes LGBTI people have a higher incident of self harm and suicide than the general population, but that is more often than not due to stigma, and other factors.

 

[Number 6]

It's a choice for a man to wear make-up and a dress.

 

How many 15-35yo trannies do you see? Many. How many 45-55yo? None. I've noticed this for years on the MRT.

 

So, either the individuals have stopped riding public transport at 40 altogether. Or...they have dropped the drag because they can no longer pull it off. Therefore, clearly a choice.

 

Did transgenderism exist before we humans had clothing? Jus askin

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Social conditions? More like life choices.

 

Many real women doing those jobs. You don't have the same concern for them. That's clearly sexist. You're just a homosexual advocate. That's fine. I'm not. That's fine too.

 

Like I said, especially us being foreigners. Most expats are quite ok with transexual Thai people. If nothing else, it's their country. 

 

Transexuals are given a good ribbing by Thai society in general and often very involved in self deprecating humor on TV.

 

You need to chill out. No one needs to entertain your opinion and this is not your home country. Fortunately, there's still some cultural sensibility left here.

 

I don't need to chill out based on what some anonymous hostile poster writes online. Don't even bother with that.

 

You're right that other minorities have challenges to in Thailand. As far as women they did have a female PM that was obviously related to nepotism but I still doubt that would have happened if she was a transgender women.

 

Yes I support LGBTQ civil rights globally but that doesn't mean in any way that I oppose civil rights for any other groups. It's not a zero sum game though I think maybe you think that it is. 

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

It's a choice for a man to wear make-up and a dress.

 

How many 15-35yo trannies do you see? Many. How many 45-55yo? None. I've noticed this for years on the MRT.

 

So, either the individuals have stopped riding public transport at 40 altogether. Or...they have dropped the drag because they can no longer pull it off. Therefore, clearly a choice.

 

Did transgenderism exist before we humans had clothing? Jus askin

 

There is a vast difference between being transgender and "drag"

I know at least 4 over 65 year old transgender women.

Can I suggest you do some research regarding transgender and then comment.