[KETO] Just How Important are Carbohydrates for Athletes...Really?

[WaveHunter 1,199]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

True, but there is no need to get injured from barbel exercises if done properly. I fail to see for instance how a bench press is dangerous. A squat if done correctly (not in your case with existing injuries) is safe and a deadlift with the right technique is safe too.

 

Having said that I got a lat pull down machine and use it for lats and triceps. But the biggest bang for your buck you get from compound barbell exercises. 

 

Still there are some great machines for legs. 

 

I don't see why a machine would be safer then a a free weight exercise with the correct weight. Sure you need instruction but it really is not that hard. My motor control is far from perfect but most exercises are real easy.

A machine can be just as dangerous as free weights if you screw around.  My own view is that free weights are a highly functional form of exercise that closely mimics the way our bodies lift, push and pull things in the real world.  Machines are less so, forcing movement in only one predefined direction.  Therefore, all they can really do is develop muscular strength along that one axis, and do nothing significant in regard to core stability. 

 

In terms of overall fitness that sort of core stability is equally importance I think.  Just my opinion but even with a physical disability, I'd still opt for free weights even if it meant just using super light weight.  

Edited July 21, 2019 by WaveHunter

[nzrick 38]

21 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I agree with you on your view of nutrition but disagree about the gym.  I think they go hand-in-hand.  It's true that fat loss will only occur from nutrition, but resistance training greatly effects metabolic hormonal balance which in turns makes it easier for the body to access and use stored body fat.  You say 95% / 5%.  Personally I believe it's more like 60% / 40%.  Just my opinion but I think resistance training (more than even cardio) is important, especially as we age.

My remarks were specifically addressing the question posed by ExpatOilWorker, which was why I quoted his post, where he stated that he had been going to the gym mainly to lose belly fat, and found it harder than he anticipated. It was in this context that I stated that going to the gym was a waste of life. Exercise has its place, but many people derive sufficient exercise without going near a gym.

 

The key to loss of belly fat has little, or even nothing, to do with attending a gym. The key is, incontrovertibly, correct nutrition.

Spend the rest of your life in the gym trying to lose belly fat, or simply understand nutrition. We all must eat anyway, so why not eat nutritionally correct food. We must all exercise too, but the gym is neither essential, nor necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

[robblok 39,472]

5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

A machine can be just as dangerous as free weights if you screw around.  My own view is that free weights are a highly functional form of exercise that closely mimics the way our bodies lift, push and pull things in the real world.  Machines are less so, forcing movement in only one predefined direction.  Therefore, all they can really do is develop muscular strength along that one axis, and do nothing significant in regard to core stability. 

 

In terms of overall fitness that sort of core stability is equally importance I think.  Just my opinion but even with a physical disability, I'd still opt for free weights even if it meant just using super light weight.  

I do a combination of both, as I said i got a lat pully, great for my back and triceps. In the gyms i used machines for legs great too.

 

But in the end I feel free weights are superior if done correctly especially the big compound exercises. Unless there is a health reason for not doing them. I had a lot of lower back pain it went away after i started doing deadlifts. 

 

I think you can't really say that all machines are bad or that all free weight exercises are good. There are quite a few that are technically hard. I would never for instance try an olympic lift ( I have at really light weights) But I am sure my technique is wrong. 

 

But stuff like squat, bench and deadlifts and rows are usually the core of an exercise program. 

 

Like you said many machines guide us in not natural movements, having said that some free weight movements are also not that great. It does depend a bit its not all black and white.

[robblok 39,472]

1 minute ago, nzrick said:

My remarks were specifically addressing the question posed by ExpatOilWorker, which was why I quoted his post, where he stated that he had been going to the gym mainly to lose belly fat, and found it harder than he anticipated. It was in this context that I stated that going to the gym was a waste of life. Exercise has its place, but many people derive sufficient exercise without going near a gym.

 

The key to loss of belly fat has little, or even nothing, to do with attending a gym. The key is, incontrovertibly, correct nutrition.

Spend the rest of your life in the gym trying to lose belly fat, or simply understand nutrition. We all must eat anyway, so why not eat nutritionally correct food. We must all exercise too, but the gym is neither essential, nor necessary.

 

Agreed, however if your nutrition is good AND you ad gym work you get a synergy. But just the gym alone without correcting your food intake .. it wont work. I tried it i got fat even when i was training. 

[villagefarang 15,782]

I agree that bench press does not compress vertebra but you really need a spotter if you are going to do enough to get good results.  With machines and cables I can get a consistent resistance through a much greater range of motion.  This, I feel, gives me greater strength and flexibility over a greater range of motion.  Since heart, muscle, bone, flexibility and balance are just the foundation for what I like to do in life, and not my end goal, I will continue to do what works for me.

[WaveHunter 1,199]

37 minutes ago, nzrick said:

My remarks were specifically addressing the question posed by ExpatOilWorker, which was why I quoted his post, where he stated that he had been going to the gym mainly to lose belly fat, and found it harder than he anticipated. It was in this context that I stated that going to the gym was a waste of life. Exercise has its place, but many people derive sufficient exercise without going near a gym.

 

The key to loss of belly fat has little, or even nothing, to do with attending a gym. The key is, incontrovertibly, correct nutrition.

Spend the rest of your life in the gym trying to lose belly fat, or simply understand nutrition. We all must eat anyway, so why not eat nutritionally correct food. We must all exercise too, but the gym is neither essential, nor necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

There's big difference between resistance type training that you do in a gym with barbells and dumb bells, compared with non-resistant type training, that can significantly enhance the ability to burn stored body fat.

 

The goal in gym-style resistance type training is to build muscle, pure and simple.  Having more lean muscle means your body will burn more calories at rest. Having more muscle increases your everyday base metabolic rate significantly.  That new muscle has a huge influence on decreasing body fat.

 

Sure, you can lose fat without resistance training but very few people's goal is simply to loose body fat.  What they really are seeking is to look better...let's face it!

 

Loosing fat alone is not the answer to looking better.  Improving body composition is what most people are really seeking, and strength training will accomplish that far better than dieting alone, and far better than dieting plus cardio BTW.

 

What's most important of all, is having a long term strategy that does NOT rely on being on some crazy-ass weight loss diet every few months IMO. 

 

I absolutely hate the idea of weight-loss diets, per se, in any form.  In the long run, most people fail miserable on them no matter what form they are.  A smart nutritional lifestyle strategy combined with a reasonable amount of resistance training along with some cardio to keep the heart happy, and you've got an ideal long term health strategy IMO.

 

First of all, your body naturally looses lean body mass as you age, and resistance training is the only way to counter that.  Unless you want to look frail and have exceedingly poor core strength/stability as you get older, gym-style resistance training is pretty important.  

 

Add to this the fact that more muscle means higher basal metabolic rate (more calories burned at rest)  and you have the perfect recipe for maintaining optimal body fat WITHOUT the need to resort to weight loss dieting.  Sound nutrition plus resistance training go hand in hand in reaching and sustaining optimal metabolic health.

 

The 45 minutes you spend in the gym to do this three times a week is hardly "wasting your life in the gym" in my opinion. 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok 39,472]

25 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

I agree that bench press does not compress vertebra but you really need a spotter if you are going to do enough to get good results.  With machines and cables I can get a consistent resistance through a much greater range of motion.  This, I feel, gives me greater strength and flexibility over a greater range of motion.  Since heart, muscle, bone, flexibility and balance are just the foundation for what I like to do in life, and not my end goal, I will continue to do what works for me.

You should always do what works for you.

 

Personally I am so attuned to my body that i know my limits and with bench i can train to failure or close to it without spotters. I know exactly what i can do. I could of course put my spotter bars on in my power-rack.

 

Some machines are certainly superior to free weights but it works the other way around too. Its just not that black and white. I for instance have no machines for my legs and i rely on deadlifts and squats (legs are good) but stuff like incline leg press is something i miss at times. 

 

The lat pully is great especially for triceps not sure free weights would give me the same feeling. 

 

But my point was more about the core exercises like bench press, shoulder press, squat and deadlift. Not isolation exercises. 

 

I believe in compound (multi joint) exercises over isolation exercises. I improved the most when I had deadlift in my program. (prefer the trap bar deadlift). It involves so many muscles that it just gives the most bang for your money. In your case it might not be a good idea. 

 

Anyway whatever works for you works. My program sometimes goes against the grain too and there might be better programs out there still but I need to like what I am doing too.

[villagefarang 15,782]

This is my favorite stretch and it really opens up my legs, hips and lower back.  My main goal is to remain healthy and active as long as I can and to keep up with my much younger wife.

 

[ExpatOilWorker 4,662]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

If fat loss is your goal, my advice would be to be more concerned with what you eat, rather than how much.  You'll get a lot of conflicting opinions on this but my take is that most people who are overweight eat too much processed foods, pure and simple.  Cut down on those type of foods, and eat a well balanced mix of proteins and fats and minimal carbohydrates, and your body will take care of the rest...all without the need to go on silly weight-loss diets!

 

The human body actually has a remarkable ability to self-regulate body fat levels, provided we eat naturally occurring foods that don't screw up metabolic hormonal balance.  Problems occur when you are ingesting things like high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) which is found in almost all processed foods.  This is a unnatural concentrated carbohydrate, and IMHO it is the main cause of the obesity epidemic today.  

 

HFCS wrecks havoc on insulin and leptin balance and that's what so bad about them.  They screw up the body's ability to use carbs for fuel and instead promote carbs to be stored as body fat.  They blunt leptin response and as a result, our brains do not signal us that we have eaten enough, so we just continue eating.  Everybody's experienced this, like when you eat a bag a potato chips or a candy bar and still want more.  Processed foods are actually engineered to do this...just so you buy more!

 

I'm putting it simply, but if you want to know more, google for it.

 

Remember this important fact:  Proteins and fats are essential macronutrients for metabolic health.  Carbohydrates are not.  You should be sure you are getting enough protein and fats (which isn't hard to figure out).  Figuring out how many carbs to eat is another story.

 

As far as carbohydrates go, you can actually live in a healthy state on ZERO carbs but I'm not saying you should.  There is no minimum daily requirement for carbs.  The actual amount of carbs you want to consume has to do with your level of physical activity.  It's a subjective thing that you need to figure out through experimentation, trial and error because no two people will be the same.

 

If you're not getting enough, you'll feel like crap so it's pretty easy to figure out.  The goal should be to eat just enough to avoid that, and no more.  It's far more healthy to get your required calories from fats than carbohydrates.  Google for the underlying science to that statement.

 

Just my personal thoughts on this but it works for me.  I keep my carbs very low and make up the caloric difference necessary to maintain a good resting metabolic rate with healthy fats.  I have all the energy I need for day long bike rides or mountain climbs on my bike with minimal carbohydrates, and since I began to eat this way, I have never felt the need to go on a weight loss diet...never!

Thanks a lot for the fast reply and detailed explanation. Much appreciated.

No sugar in the coffee, no candy or chocolate from now on.

Is bread and rice also off limit in a low carp diet, or is is only refined sugar?

Is oat ok?

 

[robblok 39,472]

2 hours ago, villagefarang said:

This is my favorite stretch and it really opens up my legs, hips and lower back.  My main goal is to remain healthy and active as long as I can and to keep up with my much younger wife.

 

I have to admit, i do not stretch that much I never have. I was not that flexible, i still am not flexible.

 

Thankfully still mainly without injuries. Did have a few that popped up shortly.

 

My main goal is health and staying in shape as long as i can.

[WaveHunter 1,199]

5 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Thanks a lot for the fast reply and detailed explanation. Much appreciated.

No sugar in the coffee, no candy or chocolate from now on.

Is bread and rice also off limit in a low carp diet, or is is only refined sugar?

Is oat ok?

 

Just avoid all processed foods as much as possible.  You don't have to beat your self up.  If you really like a teaspoon of sugar in your morning coffee, maybe switch to something less processed like, more natural like honey maybe??  Candy and chocolate; you can definitely do without them.  Bread and rice are very high in carbs and really are just empty calories.  I know they taste great but I'd avoid them as much as possible, especially bread.  There are better options for both.

 

The cravings you have for many processed foods are because they are intentionally engineered to cause that sense of craving so you end up buying more.  Once you break the addiction though, you won't miss them at all, and you'll feel so much better, you won't want to go back to them.

Edited July 21, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok 39,472]

7 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Just avoid all processed foods as much as possible.  You don't have to beat your self up.  If you really like a teaspoon of sugar in your morning coffee, maybe switch to something less processed like, more natural like honey maybe??  Candy and chocolate; you can definitely do without them.  Bread and rice are very high in carbs and really are just empty calories.  I know they taste great but I'd avoid them as much as possible, especially bread.  There are better options for both.

 

The cravings you have for many processed foods are because they are intentionally engineered to cause that sense of craving so you end up buying more.  Once you break the addiction though, you won't miss them at all, and you'll feel so much better, you won't want to go back to them.

I agree with most of what you said though bread is nice. I ad a scoop of unflavored protein powder to my bread when I bake it. So its not that much empty calories. Plus there is quite a bit of protein in bread already. Today I got a heavy workout day so I am eating some bread just for a change.

 

I have a bread machine makes it easy to make whole wheat bread (have to make it with normal flour too otherwise it wont rise). I like it with the Dutch cheese my parents send me.

[WaveHunter 1,199]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I agree with most of what you said though bread is nice. I ad a scoop of unflavored protein powder to my bread when I bake it. So its not that much empty calories. Plus there is quite a bit of protein in bread already. Today I got a heavy workout day so I am eating some bread just for a change.

 

I have a bread machine makes it easy to make whole wheat bread (have to make it with normal flour too otherwise it wont rise). I like it with the Dutch cheese my parents send me.

I love fresh baked bread too but if someone needs to lose body fat, eating bread is not going to help; it’s pretty much all carbs.  If excess body fat isn’t an issue, then it’s just one of those foods you can sensibly indulge in but it’s not really doing anything good for you nutritionally and really is just a “feel good” food, wouldn’t you agree?

[robblok 39,472]

19 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I love fresh baked bread too but if someone needs to lose body fat, eating bread is not going to help; it’s pretty much all carbs.  If excess body fat isn’t an issue, then it’s just one of those foods you can sensibly indulge in but it’s not really doing anything good for you nutritionally and really is just a “feel good” food, wouldn’t you agree?

Depends a bit on the kind of bread of really whole wheat then its a lot better. Besides fibers are good for you. I agree that just plain old store bought white bread is bad. But home made bread with flax seed, olive oil, whole wheat, protein powder and no additives is a different story. 

[WaveHunter 1,199]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Depends a bit on the kind of bread of really whole wheat then its a lot better. Besides fibers are good for you. I agree that just plain old store bought white bread is bad. But home made bread with flax seed, olive oil, whole wheat, protein powder and no additives is a different story. 

The way you describe it does sound wholesome and tasty too...I have to admit   Still though, I think it will be hard for someone to lose excess body fat if they are eating bread regularly...just so many carbs.  If excess fat isn't an issue, I see no issue with bread honestly.  You're actually making me want to look into getting my own bread machine now LOL!