Jump to content
BANGKOK
WaveHunter

[KETO] Just How Important are Carbohydrates for Athletes...Really?

Recommended Posts

On 7/21/2019 at 10:54 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Lots of good information in this thread.

I am not a fitness person per se, but mainly going to the gym to get rid of some bally fat, this has proven harder than I anticipated.

I don't do any kind if specific diet, keto or otherwise, but generally limit my food intake. I go to the gym twice a week each time doing 40 min flat out on a bike at about 170-175 W with a 160-165 pulse.

 

Am I on the right track or could I do something different to get rid of my belly?

cannot spot reduce buddy, just keep at it. However we do adapt so change it up a little, try to do cycle sprints followed by medium pace etc..... 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, eezergood said:

cannot spot reduce buddy, just keep at it. However we do adapt so change it up a little, try to do cycle sprints followed by medium pace etc..... 

As @eezergood said, there's no such thing as spot reducing body fat.  As I mentioned before, There’s a saying, “Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym.  Exercise alone will strengthen, stabilize, and tone the body.  It will also improve your metabolic health greatly, and thus make your body more efficient at using food (and your stored body fat) for energy instead of being stored as body fat. 

 

In the final analysis though if you are carrying body fat on your belly (or anywhere else) that you want to lose, fixing your diet is the only way it's going to happen.

 

It's not so much about cutting calories as it is about proper food selection.  Just avoiding heavily processed foods made with high fructose corn syrup (which is hidden in almost all processed food to some extent), and avoiding junky snacks, will do amazing things for excess fat loss around the belly and everywhere else 🙂

 

Edited by WaveHunter
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

As @eezergood said, there's no such thing as spot reducing body fat.  As I mentioned before, There’s a saying, “Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym.  Exercise alone will strengthen, stabilize, and tone the body.  It will also improve your metabolic health greatly, and thus make your body more efficient at using food (and your stored body fat) for energy instead of being stored as body fat. 

 

In the final analysis though if you are carrying body fat on your belly (or anywhere else) that you want to lose, fixing your diet is the only way it's going to happen.

 

It's not so much about cutting calories as it is about proper food selection.  Just avoiding heavily processed foods made with high fructose corn syrup (which is hidden in almost all processed food to some extent), and avoiding junky snacks, will do amazing things for excess fat loss around the belly and everywhere else 🙂

 

I agree - HOWEVER if you are a beginner or haven't trained for a while, simply reduce caloric intake is your first step. This should then be followed by weight training, then cardio. Establish a routine & (where possible) cut out the crap, if you enjoy a beer/cake/chocolate etc..... just make allowances in your diet for that food. DO NOT look at foods as a reward or good & bad, in my opinion this is the wrong strategy. Learn to adapt them into your diet, then start to look at your macros and other factors. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, eezergood said:

I agree - HOWEVER if you are a beginner or haven't trained for a while, simply reduce caloric intake is your first step. This should then be followed by weight training, then cardio. Establish a routine & (where possible) cut out the crap, if you enjoy a beer/cake/chocolate etc..... just make allowances in your diet for that food. DO NOT look at foods as a reward or good & bad, in my opinion this is the wrong strategy. Learn to adapt them into your diet, then start to look at your macros and other factors. 

I wouldn't promote any caloric intake reduction, because such CICO diets don't work - as has been scientifically proven - in that the body reacts by lowering the metabolic rate to compensate. 

 

A preferred weight loss regime, IMO, is to undertake Intermittent fasting, and to engage ketosis (which burns fat) and which doesn't reduce metabolic rate.  Anyone who has 'taught' the body to accept ketosis would enter that state some 12 hours after the last meal. Once fat burning begins, then look at a nutrition lifestyle change to eat healthier either before or when the desired weight loss is achieved.

 

As for Carbs, I'm a little hesitant in agreeing - or even suggesting - that the human body doesn't need Carbs to exist.

Why? 

Mainly, because I believe that a proper balance between (low) carbs, (high) fat and (good) protein is an essential nutritional factor - and the absence of one component is not conducive to maximum health benefits for the human body.

 

I'm just one person (out of billions) who has established a healthy dietary routine that works for me, and has maintained weight loss, but now looking to build muscle. 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WH said: -

As regards resistance training (and unlike cardio based exercise), it can have a huge positive effect on fat loss in terms of metabolic changes that occur as a result.  It seriously changes metabolic hormonal balance in a positive and long-term way that enhances how the body metabolizes fat stores.  The way it changes hormonal balance also has a psychological effect that replaces the desire to eat junky foods.

 

Combining diet with resistance training is the optimal way to lose body fat, even for someone who's never set foot inside a gym and irregardless of their age, and even if they have disabilities (with the help of a good coach or trainer).

 

That's just my opinion, and again, I agree with you, that one can only do what one can do, BUT sometimes in life, you have to be willing to go beyond what you think your limits are, if you are to make positive lifestyle changes. 

 

Most people find they can accomplish far more than they believe.  Just about everybody is capable of such changes if they are truly serious about fat loss.  It all really boils down to how much you really want it. 

 

 

Exactly. I agree. In your opinion what is the 'lowest' weight that is required for resistance training to be beneficial? Apologies for not knowing how the exercises - deadlift, squat, etc work and what muscle groups are benefitted.    

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I wouldn't promote any caloric intake reduction, because such CICO diets don't work - as has been scientifically proven - in that the body reacts by lowering the metabolic rate to compensate. 

 

A preferred weight loss regime, IMO, is to undertake Intermittent fasting, and to engage ketosis (which burns fat) and which doesn't reduce metabolic rate.  Anyone who has 'taught' the body to accept ketosis would enter that state some 12 hours after the last meal. Once fat burning begins, then look at a nutrition lifestyle change to eat healthier either before or when the desired weight loss is achieved.

 

As for Carbs, I'm a little hesitant in agreeing - or even suggesting - that the human body doesn't need Carbs to exist.

Why? 

Mainly, because I believe that a proper balance between (low) carbs, (high) fat and (good) protein is an essential nutritional factor - and the absence of one component is not conducive to maximum health benefits for the human body.

 

I'm just one person (out of billions) who has established a healthy dietary routine that works for me, and has maintained weight loss, but now looking to build muscle. 

 

Well, I think, technically, caloric reduction is a necessary element in fat loss, but agree 100% that a diet based totally on CICO have been been proven to be completely ineffective in the long run.

 

The trick is to reduce calories in a way that does not cause a metabolic slowdown.  IMO, restricting carbs is the key.  Consuming zero carbs isn't necessary.  Even being in ketosis isn't necessary even though it is highly effective.

 

As you say, striking an ideal balance of macronutrients that works for specifically for an individual is the way to go since everybody reacts to foods differently.  

 

I agree that carbs certainly play a positive role in optimal metabolic health.  The problem is simply that most people believe you need a lot more carbs than you really need, and they also believe that a carb is simply a carb, and don't distinguish between "engineered" carbs such as high fructose corn syrup, and natural ones such as whole fruit.

 

To me, it just seems natural and logical to eat the way nature intended.  Take processed foods out of the equation, and the body is smart enough to handle the rest.  I truly believe this! 

 

Add to this the fact that the body naturally loses lean body mass as we age, and countering this with resistance training (along with sound nutrition) is the ticket to maintaining optimal metabolic health...and more importantly, a happy sense of well-being.

 

It's really not rocket science when you think about it; it just makes common sense.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

WH said: -

As regards resistance training (and unlike cardio based exercise), it can have a huge positive effect on fat loss in terms of metabolic changes that occur as a result.  It seriously changes metabolic hormonal balance in a positive and long-term way that enhances how the body metabolizes fat stores.  The way it changes hormonal balance also has a psychological effect that replaces the desire to eat junky foods.

 

Combining diet with resistance training is the optimal way to lose body fat, even for someone who's never set foot inside a gym and irregardless of their age, and even if they have disabilities (with the help of a good coach or trainer).

 

That's just my opinion, and again, I agree with you, that one can only do what one can do, BUT sometimes in life, you have to be willing to go beyond what you think your limits are, if you are to make positive lifestyle changes. 

 

Most people find they can accomplish far more than they believe.  Just about everybody is capable of such changes if they are truly serious about fat loss.  It all really boils down to how much you really want it. 

 

 

Exactly. I agree. In your opinion what is the 'lowest' weight that is required for resistance training to be beneficial? Apologies for not knowing how the exercises - deadlift, squat, etc work and what muscle groups are benefitted.    

 

@robblok knows far more about this than I do but any weight that tears apart muscle fibers will result in atrophy.  Even starting out with super light weight in the beginning (even just an empty barbell) is beneficial in the beginning.  Knowing how to progress to heavier weights and having a workout schedule that allows for proper muscle recover is key.  Remember that with resistance training, your gains come from the period of recovery, not the actual lifting of the weights, so proper workout schedules are critical.

 

The best advice I could give someone who's never done resistance training before is to get a good trainer or coach in the beginning.  Easier said than done though.  Personal trainers run the gamut in terms of knowledge and coaching ability but if you look around you can find a good one.  

 

I decided to get serious with weight training and found an amazing trainer here in Pattaya who only charges me 300 baht per session.  That's a steal!  He is a former competitive powerlifter and now a gym owner, and even though bulking up is not my goal, the guy knows his shit, and has put together an amazing program that's tailored to my specific needs.  3 days a week, 45 minutes per session is not a huge time commitment for what I get out of it.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking processed foods out of the equation  - in today's world - is almost impossible to achieve. And made even more difficult by 'producers' pumping chemicals and unnatural foodstuffs into animals to fatten them up, and by spraying pesticides over crops.

 

To expect a family, in entering a supermarket, to be able to identify exactly which foodstuffs are 'natural' is an expectation too far.

 

For example, tins of 'Arctic' salmon would be non-processed, while canned Tuna is dubious (owing to its size and ability to consume pesticides etc.). Smaller fish like Mackerel, Herring and Sardines are probably okay. However, all farmed fish, beef, pork and chicken and eggs are likely not free-range pasture bred unless stated - and they would be the most expensive that would be rejected by the shoppers.

 

I could go on. But you can see a healthy diet is not easy to find. 

  

 

 

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

WH said: -

As regards resistance training (and unlike cardio based exercise), it can have a huge positive effect on fat loss in terms of metabolic changes that occur as a result.  It seriously changes metabolic hormonal balance in a positive and long-term way that enhances how the body metabolizes fat stores.  The way it changes hormonal balance also has a psychological effect that replaces the desire to eat junky foods.

 

Combining diet with resistance training is the optimal way to lose body fat, even for someone who's never set foot inside a gym and irregardless of their age, and even if they have disabilities (with the help of a good coach or trainer).

 

That's just my opinion, and again, I agree with you, that one can only do what one can do, BUT sometimes in life, you have to be willing to go beyond what you think your limits are, if you are to make positive lifestyle changes. 

 

Most people find they can accomplish far more than they believe.  Just about everybody is capable of such changes if they are truly serious about fat loss.  It all really boils down to how much you really want it. 

 

 

Exactly. I agree. In your opinion what is the 'lowest' weight that is required for resistance training to be beneficial? Apologies for not knowing how the exercises - deadlift, squat, etc work and what muscle groups are benefitted.    

 

Also just want to add...a GREAT book you should read is called Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.  It's one of the best barbell-based training books ever written, and is considered the "Bible" of weightlifting by many people. 

 

IMO he is a great man, providing novices and experts alike, with a straight-forward, no-nonsense, but completely science-based understanding of resistance training that translate into effective and safe workouts in the gym for everybody, irregardless of age, experience, or fitness level. 

 

One of the best fitness books I have ever read!  He also has a ton of YouTube videos that are pretty informative, and his brash, politically incorrect way of teaching makes them fun to watch! 

 

He's one of the few people that actually deserves the title of "guru" 🙂

 

Edited by WaveHunter
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Taking processed foods out of the equation  - in today's world - is almost impossible to achieve. And made even more difficult by 'producers' pumping chemicals and unnatural foodstuffs into animals to fatten them up, and by spraying pesticides over crops.

 

To expect a family, in entering a supermarket, to be able to identify exactly which foodstuffs are 'natural' is an expectation too far.

 

For example, tins of 'Arctic' salmon would be non-processed, while canned Tuna is dubious (owing to its size and ability to consume pesticides etc.). Smaller fish like Mackerel, Herring and Sardines are probably okay. However, all farmed fish, beef, pork and chicken and eggs are likely not free-range pasture bred unless stated - and they would be the most expensive that would be rejected by the shoppers.

 

I could go on. But you can see a healthy diet is not easy to find. 

Yes I agree it's hard to avoid precessed foods completely these days but you can still make intelligent choices.  Learning to read food labels is the key.  Knowing the tricks that the processed food producers use in labelling is important.

 

For instance, anything that is labelled as "low fat" is almost certainly loaded with high fructose corn syrup (HFCS).  If all you did was avoid these type of products, you'd make great strides at eating a more healthy diet.  Another trick they use is to not list "sugar" content but instead break down sugar content into sub-components of sugar (usually with generic chemical names) so it appears there is less sugar in a product than there really is.

 

There are all sorts of smart ways to shop in supermarkets.  For instance, supermarkets are all laid out in a certain way.  Foods that are healthy and good for you are generally located around the periphery of the store.  More heavily processed foods are generally located along aisles, and tho most processed ones are located ay eye level on shelves.  Products that contains TONS of sugar and thus appealing to children are located on shelves low enough for them to see them, and usually use cartoon like characters to attract the interest of children!

 

It might be hard to shop for completely natural, unprocessed foods without spending a fortune, but you can put a real dent in it by being informed and shopping smart.

 

As for animal-based protein type foods, yeah I agree it's hard and expensive to buy free-range, or non-farmed product.  If you can afford to buy the best, then you should, but in Thailand that can be difficult. 

 

I'll buy the best quality that's available at a fair and reasonable price.  Sometimes it may mean canned tuna, or other non "organic" foods, but in the grand scheme of things, I wonder just how bad these products really might be.  I'm not so sure if some of this stuff is not just a bit over-hyped, ya know?

 

Edited by WaveHunter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this amusing, sort of. Taken my live-in to Rimping (a high-class farang supermarket in CM) a few days ago. I carried out my carefully inspected organic fruit and vegetables shopping while she found a packet of almond cookies - her nighttime snack.

 

While she's a mini-marathon runner, her attention to a healthy diet is not - loves chocolate and sugary drinks. Anyway, back home, I chanced upon the cookies, with a photo-cover showing a cascade of roasted almonds which was why she bought the packet. 

 

So I looked at the contents list -in English - and spotted sugar, fructose, glucose, sugar additives and about 20 ingredients. Right at the bottom with the least content I spotted 'almonds'. The description was - wait for it - ARTIFICIAL ALMOND FLAVOURING!!! 

 

And the producers get away with it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I found this amusing, sort of. Taken my live-in to Rimping (a high-class farang supermarket in CM) a few days ago. I carried out my carefully inspected organic fruit and vegetables shopping while she found a packet of almond cookies - her nighttime snack.

 

While she's a mini-marathon runner, her attention to a healthy diet is not - loves chocolate and sugary drinks. Anyway, back home, I chanced upon the cookies, with a photo-cover showing a cascade of roasted almonds which was why she bought the packet. 

 

So I looked at the contents list -in English - and spotted sugar, fructose, glucose, sugar additives and about 20 ingredients. Right at the bottom with the least content I spotted 'almonds'. The description was - wait for it - ARTIFICIAL ALMOND FLAVOURING!!! 

 

And the producers get away with it...

 

Funny but not surprising 🙂.  Which Rimping do you shop at...Maya Mall?  I lived right around the corner from there; shopped there daily even if it was expensive, though the one over by the river had a much bigger selection.  Plenty of decent food but prices for fresh fruit & veggies was a little ridiculous.

 

I used to regularly go over to the Muang Mai open air market by the river for fruit and veggies.  I never saw such an amazing market like that anywhere.  Now that I'm living in Pattaya, I really miss it, and the Food Court at Maya too LOL!

 

I miss Chinag Mai in general; never had a problem finding good food there; a lot harder down here for sure.

 

Edited by WaveHunter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Open air fruit and veggies market right next to my moobaan home. Huge selection and inexpensive, yet I still wonder where the sellers get their produce from as some tables are stacked high three times a week. Unlikely to be home grown?

 

Could be bought from the Wholesalers, who no doubt use pesticides...

 

But don't locate back here, unless using a visa agent. On many occasions, I've heard that Immigration are the pits...

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Open air fruit and veggies market right next to my moobaan home. Huge selection and inexpensive, yet I still wonder where the sellers get their produce from as some tables are stacked high three times a week. Unlikely to be home grown?

 

Could be bought from the Wholesalers, who no doubt use pesticides...

 

But don't locate back here, unless using a visa agent. On many occasions, I've heard that Immigration are the pits...

   

That's partly why I left.  CM IMM was just getting more and more ridiculous to deal with.  Down here IMM is a breeze!  Still though, there's something about Chiang Mai that's unique and I miss it.

 

I'm not sure where vendors get their stuff at Muang Mai but it was always super fresh, incredibly delicious, and cheap.  Nothing even close to that down here in Pattaya that I've found.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...