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WaveHunter

[KETO] Just How Important are Carbohydrates for Athletes...Really?

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On 7/22/2019 at 10:41 PM, WaveHunter said:

Most people find they can accomplish far more than they believe.  Just about everybody is capable of such changes if they are truly serious about fat loss.  It all really boils down to how much you really want it. 

   It is more than how much you want it!  It is what you are willing to do to achieve it!

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13 hours ago, dontoearth said:

   It is more than how much you want it!  It is what you are willing to do to achieve it!

Well, everything in life has its' price but most worthwhile things in life are far easier than we perceive them to be.  I don't think it's as much about what you're willing to do to achieve a goal as it is about just putting one foot in front of the other and DOING it instead of thinking about it and finding excuses not to do it.

 

Too many people know what to do to make their life better but get overwhelmed by the magnitude of their goal(s).  For many, they will just say "mañana", putting off just getting started today until tomorrow...and tomorrow never comes.  As the saying goes, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step"

 

Going to the gym to get in shape is a perfect example.  Personally I HATE "going" to the gym but once I walk in the door and start a workout, everything is fine.  The trick is just to get yourself in the front door; the rest is fairly easy, and once getting in the door becomes a habit, it becomes far harder NOT to go!  The same mindset applies to proper nutrition, work, play, and everything that makes your life better.  My motto: Don't be a procrastinator, just do it!

 

Edited by WaveHunter
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21 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Well, everything in life has its' price but most worthwhile things in life are far easier than we perceive them to be.  I don't think it's as much about what you're willing to do to achieve a goal as it is about just putting one foot in front of the other and DOING it instead of thinking about it and finding excuses not to do it.

 

Too many people know what to do to make their life better but get overwhelmed by the magnitude of their goal(s).  For many, they will just say "mañana", putting off just getting started today until tomorrow...and tomorrow never comes.  As the saying goes, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step"

 

Going to the gym to get in shape is a perfect example.  Personally I HATE "going" to the gym but once I walk in the door and start a workout, everything is fine.  The trick is just to get yourself in the front door; the rest is fairly easy, and once getting in the door becomes a habit, it becomes far harder NOT to go!  The same mindset applies to proper nutrition, work, play, and everything that makes your life better.  My motto: Don't be a procrastinator, just do it!

 

Agreed its just doing it and then adding more and more. Its not a good thing to go full crazy at once. I normally build things on step by step.

 

I dont always like going to the gym, yesterday I really did not want to go but I did anyway and once i was there i had a great workout.

 

Making things an habit is the key.

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On 8/15/2019 at 4:59 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

I have been on a Keto diet for the best part of 2 week and as an absolute novice It has been an interesting experience. Apart from a very light dizziness and a slight headache on day 4-5 it has been pretty smooth. Weight loss was about 4 kg in 14 days, but I still have a hint of a belly when standing up. I guess situps is the only way to tighten up a soft stomach?

 

Two other observations worth mention:

1. My resting pulse, as measured by fitbit watch, went from 45 to 58 during the Keto phase. Not sure why.

 

2. I do a fixed 40 minuted all out cardio on a fitness bike and when on Keto I could only do 540 cal vs. normally 660-700 cal during the 40 min. Make sense the body is struggling to feed the muscles with fuel when there are no carbs available. 

 

Good fun and thanks for all the tips on this thread.

 

 

 

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Keto + fasting will work even better. Plus walking and weights and you will be a machine in 3 months.

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VERY unlikely he was in ketosis within 2 weeks, but whatever works for him 

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34 minutes ago, eezergood said:

VERY unlikely he was in ketosis within 2 weeks, but whatever works for him 

Why would you say that?

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Only takes 2 to 4 days to enter ketosis. The headache on days 4 and 5 would be a sign of it.

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1 hour ago, UbonThani said:

Only takes 2 to 4 days to enter ketosis. The headache on days 4 and 5 would be a sign of it.

Exactly!  Limiting carbohydrates (especially those found in processed foods) and allowing the body to become fat-adapted (use fat as fuel rather than rely on carbs completely) through ketosis is one of the easiest ways to vastly and very quickly improve your health, not to mention lose excess body fat. 

 

You will encounter a lot of naysayers, but the science behind the ketogenic state and periodic fasting is solid and undeniable. 

 

Kudos to you for exploring this 🙂

 

Edited by WaveHunter

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28 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Exactly!  Limiting carbohydrates (especially those found in processed foods) and allowing the body to become fat-adapted (use fat as fuel rather than rely on carbs completely) through ketosis is one of the easiest ways to vastly and very quickly improve your health, not to mention lose excess body fat. 

 

You will encounter a lot of naysayers, but the science behind the ketogenic state and periodic fasting is solid and undeniable. 

 

Kudos to you for exploring this 🙂

 

I agree - the time limit in order to get into ketosis however is not as stated in the anecdotal evidence above. 

 

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1 hour ago, UbonThani said:

Only takes 2 to 4 days to enter ketosis. The headache on days 4 and 5 would be a sign of it.

Four weeks is generally accepted as a minimum, athletes are asking all the time if they can go Keto for a race in a few weeks time, answer is no. Depends on age also.

The process of going into ketosis may well begin after a few days.

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36 minutes ago, eezergood said:

I agree - the time limit in order to get into ketosis however is not as stated in the anecdotal evidence above. 

 

Well actually it is, depending on how much you curtail carbohydrates.  If you stay below 50 grams per day, most people will enter ketosis within 3-5 days. 

 

Personally I get into ketosis with a 72 hour water fast combined with moderate aerobic exercise (running), and I am in ketosis within 48 hours.  I do this several times a year for general health maintenance (i.e.: anti-inflammatory and autophagy...think of it as a sort of "spring house cleaning" regime. 🙂

 

This is very science-based, not at all anecdotal.  In scientific terms this chart shows the stages of getting into a fasted state:

image.jpeg.35b92966f42ed89bb389e9d99b9267b6.jpeg
 
The stages are:

Feeding – During meals, insulin levels are raised. This allows uptake of glucose into tissues such as the muscle or brain to be used directly for energy. Excess glucose is stored as glycogen in the liver.

 

The post-absorptive phase – 6-24 hours after beginning fasting.   Insulin levels start to fall. Breakdown of glycogen releases glucose for energy. Glycogen stores last for roughly 24 hours.

 

Gluconeogenesis – 24 hours to 2 days – The liver manufactures new glucose from amino acids in a process called “gluconeogenesis”. Literally, this is translated as “making new glucose”. In non-diabetic persons, glucose levels fall but stay within the normal range.

 

Ketosis – 2-3 days after beginning fasting – The low levels of insulin reached during fasting stimulate lipolysis, the breakdown of fat for energy. The storage form of fat, known as triglycerides, is broken into the glycerol backbone and three fatty acid chains. Glycerol is used for gluconeogenesis. Fatty acids may be used for directly for energy by many tissues in the body, but not the brain. Ketone bodies, capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier, are produced from fatty acids for use by the brain. After four days of fasting, approximately 75% of the energy used by the brain is provided by ketones. The two major types of ketones produced are beta hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate, which can increase over 70 fold during fasting.

 

Protein conservation phase – >5 days – High levels of growth hormone maintain muscle mass and lean tissues. The energy for maintenance of basal metabolism is almost entirely met by the use of free fatty acids and ketones. Increased norepinephrine (adrenalin) levels prevent the decrease in metabolic rate.

 

FYI, I have been curious enough about the science of all of this to have undergone a self-imposed 7 day water fast (i.e.: no food at all for 7 days, only water and electrolytes), and my experiences were pretty much in line with what is described above...i.e.: no health issues at all (and I had blood tests before and after the fast), no significantly loss of lean body mass (muscle) at all, only stored body fat...and, the big key to success is that I stayed active the whole time (walks, light running or swimming in the cooler evening hours since I was here in Thailand and did this in the hot season).

Edited by WaveHunter

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28 minutes ago, cooked said:

Four weeks is generally accepted as a minimum, athletes are asking all the time if they can go Keto for a race in a few weeks time, answer is no. Depends on age also.

The process of going into ketosis may well begin after a few days.

That is a little misleading.  For athletes who are interested in ketosis, it is because they want to become more "fat-adapted".  That means they want to alter their metabolism to burn fat as a primary fuel more effectively, and be less reliant on carbohydrates in order to avoid "bonking" without the need for sports gels or snacks while competing. 

 

THAT can takes weeks for the body to become fully adapted, but ketosis becomes highly beneficial as soon as glycogen is exhausted and in response to that, ketones bodies are providing sufficient fuel for the brain, and fatty acids are being mobilized due to lowered insulin response resulting from lowered carb intake.

 

The key is limitation of carbs.  If carbs are being consumed above around 50 grams a day, insulin response will be to high to allow ketosis to happen.

 

Ketosis indeed happens in as little as 48 hours if water-fasting, and 3-5 days if carbs are limited to around 50 grams per day.

Edited by WaveHunter

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What about age?

 

I think you when you're older you deal with insulin differently.  I do.  I only care about carbs the night before a race.  It might just be psychological.  I don't care.  Body doesn't have to break down meat and worst case I ate a little too much.  Efforts range from 15 minutes to 2 hours, so I don't need crazy storage for that.  There is NO way i'll cut carbs off forever, but I respect those who choose that lifestyle.  I'm a big fan of water, fruit, spinach, carrots, pasta, tomatoes, and coffee.  If i eat mushrooms instead of a donut, fine.  if not, fine.  my body generally tells me what i want.  today it wanted oranges.  great.  last night, fish.  

 

   

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57 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

What about age?

 

I think you when you're older you deal with insulin differently.  I do.  I only care about carbs the night before a race.  It might just be psychological.  I don't care.  Body doesn't have to break down meat and worst case I ate a little too much.  Efforts range from 15 minutes to 2 hours, so I don't need crazy storage for that.  There is NO way i'll cut carbs off forever, but I respect those who choose that lifestyle.  I'm a big fan of water, fruit, spinach, carrots, pasta, tomatoes, and coffee.  If i eat mushrooms instead of a donut, fine.  if not, fine.  my body generally tells me what i want.  today it wanted oranges.  great.  last night, fish.  

 

   

Most athletes who embrace keto to become fat-adapted (or keto-adapted, which means the same thing) don't forego carbs entirely and many do not even limit them in their long-term nutritional plan.  Once you become keto-adapted, your body remembers.  You can eat carbs as long as you periodically enter ketosis to reinforce the metabolic pathways associated with fat burning.

 

The way I, and many other athletes do it is through "intermittent fasting".  Once you are keto-adapted, it's not so much about limited carbs as it is the frequency that you consume them, and the type of carbs you consume.

 

I alternate between one-meal-a-day (OMAD) and two-meals a day (TMAD).  I limit my eating to a window of only a few hours in the case of OMAD or 8 hours a day in TMAD, and no food at all least for 5 hours before sleep.  This allows you to be in a semi-fasted state for most of the day (i.e.: low insulin release).

 

The problem with the typical diet of most people is they are never in a fasted state, and thus their insulin levels are always super high.  We, as a society have turned into "food grazers"; we are eating from the moment we awake to the moment we go to sleep. 

 

NOT GOOD because as long as insulin remains high, your body can not access stored body fat; it can only store it! This is a simple but important fact to realize! 

 

Secondly, I am VERY careful to not consume processed foods as much as possible since they usually contain bad cards such as high fructose corn syrup, and keep source of carbs to things like fruit, rice, etc.)

 

The whole idea being to keep insulin levels low enough to be on the edge of ketosis, and occasionally I do a 72 hour fast to sort of reinforce the fat-adapted state. 

 

In other words, you can maintain full keto adaptation while still being able to consume carbohydrates if you do it the right way.

 

That's my personal protocol and it works well for me and I have all the energy I need for a pretty active lifestyle (strenuous mountain biking several days a week, running a few km's per day, 3 trips to the gym weekly, and swimming a mile a day.)  I'm never really overly hungry or lacking energy, and I know for a fac my metabolic health is much better as a result since it is proven in blood tests. 

 

Metabolic health is the main reason I do all of this.  Several years ago I was pre-diabetic and hypertensive.  Once I changed my diet, those problems quickly went away. 

 

Metabolic inflammation is really the leading cause of many diseases, including things like Alzheimers and parkinson disease, not to mention DIabetes and coronary disease.  Becoming more keto-adapted is a small price to pay for avoiding this IMHO.

 

Edited by WaveHunter
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2 hours ago, cooked said:

Four weeks is generally accepted as a minimum, athletes are asking all the time if they can go Keto for a race in a few weeks time, answer is no. Depends on age also.

The process of going into ketosis may well begin after a few days.

4 weeks is for proper fat adaption as the major source without headaches and loss of energy. Start of keto is 2 to 4 days however. A serious keto runner would prepare months in advance however with diet planned out.

 

If you just want to lose weight then the weight will start dropping off after day 4 or 5 on a keto diet. The first 4 days loss will mainly be water loss.

 

 

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