Showing Income as a Foreign Exchange Transfer

[KhaoYai]

It is possible that someone else has posted on this issue but I'm short on time and just wanted to pass on some information I learned during a conversation with Transferwise today.  This situation doesn't affect me as yet but as I had reason to talk to Transferwise, I raised it.

 

People seem to be having probems proving that transfers into their account is a Foreign Exchange Transfer (FET). The consensus previously was that because Transferwise use Bangkok Bank as their partner in Thailand, you need to have an account with Bangkok Bank for any transfers through Transferwise to show as a FET. During my conversation today the agent I talked with traced my last transfer to use as an example.  The transfer took place on the 17th June and was actually sent via Kasikorn - however it arrived in my Kasikorn account showing as Dummy Branch MCL00004. So Kasikorn must class it as a domestic transfer when goes from their main account into my account.

 

I told the agent that I had been under the impression that Transferwise use Bangkok Bank as their partner - he advised me that they actually have 3 partners in Thailand - Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn and Thai Military Bank (TMB).  He told me it may be possible to specify which partner they used to make my transfers but I would need to contact them every time. However, as I described above - even if I specified Kasikorn, it will still not show as an FET in my account.

 

I'm sure I saw someone reporting that some of the transfers into their Bangkok Bank account failed to show as a FET - that it seems, may be because Transferwise used one of the other partners to facilitate that transfer (I'm guessing here but it could be that they decide who to route it through depending on who gives them the best exchange rate on the given day).

 

I advised the agent that this was a major headache for many expats in Thailand, he told me that Transferwise are aware of the issue and are looking into ways of solving it with their partners in Thailand.

 

For the moment he advise me that if I wanted proof that a transaction was a FET, I would need to do the following:

 

This is for those with Kasikorn Accounts - other banks will no doubt, be similar.

 

1. Call Transferwise each time I make a transfer and request it is made via Kasikorn (but he would look into whether or not a tag could be placed on my account that requested all future transfers were made via Kasikorn so I wouldn't have to call).

 

2. Contact Kasikorn's International Trade Centre who, on production of my passbook, passport and current visa, would be able to supply evidence that my transfers were FET's.

 

Complete pain in the ass but what choice do you have? If you want to get a better deal you have to accept that it will cause you some hassle but you could of course do a standard transfer out of your home account into your Thai account.

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by KhaoYai

[pontious]

17 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

1. Call Transferwise each time I make a transfer and request it is made via Kasikorn (but he would look into whether or not a tag could be placed on my account that requested all future transfers were made via Kasikorn so I wouldn't have to call).

 

Complete waste of time. They cannot guarantee it will arrive as international transfer. There are a zillion posts on here about  TW.

Edited July 16, 2019 by pontious

[KhaoYai]

3 minutes ago, pontious said:

Complete waste of time. They cannot guarantee it will arrive as international transfer. There are a zillion posts on here about  TW.

That is why you must contact the International Trade Centre for proof. I very much doubt that Transferwise have any control over the way their Thai partners handle the transaction.

[pontious]

38 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

That is why you must contact the International Trade Centre for proof. I very much doubt that Transferwise have any control over the way their Thai partners handle the transaction.

Look on the other threads regarding TW - some have spent hours trying to get the relevant documentation from intermediary  banks - a complete waste of time.

[KhaoYai]

16 hours ago, pontious said:

Look on the other threads regarding TW - some have spent hours trying to get the relevant documentation from intermediary  banks - a complete waste of time.

Possibly - I'm simply sharing what I was told so other members are aware. What do you suggest then? Do nothing?

 

This is a situation that needs putting right. The guy I talked to at Transferwise seemed concerned that they may lose business through this. If people are having problems getting the correct documents then letting Tranferwise know about that may be the best way of getting change.

 

Don't just whinge about a problem - deal with it.

Edited July 17, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Snow Leopard]

has anyone used another transfer provider like Worldremit or WU Account transfer? Do these show as an FET?

[Haso]

Some international transfers from Transferwise are recorded as FIT on my Bangkok Bank Statement.  lately those international transfers have been recorded as SMART. I asked the Manager of the Bank WHY... she replied all depends on the system used.. so I asked her.. would Immigration accept the code SMART.. she replied. . if they don't understand then I will give you a letter to clarify the coding.

[stewartthailand]

I looked at a number of transfer options including TransferWise. All seemed to have risks as described above.

I settled on using my UK bank First Direct. I go online, set up the transfer of sterling to my Bangkok Bank Account and it arrives the same day and shows as an International transfer not only in the bank book when updated but also in the Bangkok Bank App.

No fees or charges at either end, maybe a less advantageous exchange rate but no worries etc. 4 monthly payments so far and all with no problems.

[Suradit69]

18 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

 

It is possible that someone else has posted on this issue

 

Many people, many times.

[soalbundy]

After an exchange of emails with TW they said that they would tag my transfers to only go through the BKK bank partner to my BK bank account, this would then show FTT but they also said that they can't guarantee that this would happen every time. My account is in Germany and I have the phone number of the German office so I will ring them everytime that I initiate a transfer but before I send it to make sure. I can't do more than that. I use the German embassy for a letter of income so I don't really need this hassle but who knows what can happen, maybe they decide the letter is OK but they want the bank book as back up proof. I also spoke to a very understanding lady at my BKk bank branch who examined the SMT transfer from Kasikorn after my explanation about TW she said if needed she would write a letter for me to give to immigration so together with the TW PDF files, my German bank statement, my bank book and the letter from the bank and the embassy I should be good to go but TIT.

[chilly07]

TransferWise will set up a specific recipient tagged via Bangkok Bank to your Bangkok Bank account which always shows as an International Transfer in your Bangkok Bank account. Worked for me on my last 12 transfers!

[Black arab]

2 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

has anyone used another transfer provider like Worldremit or WU Account transfer? Do these show as an FET?

I used xendpay recently, this gave the FTT i needed on my statement and bank book.

[Jaggg88]

1 hour ago, stewartthailand said:

I looked at a number of transfer options including TransferWise. All seemed to have risks as described above.

I settled on using my UK bank First Direct. I go online, set up the transfer of sterling to my Bangkok Bank Account and it arrives the same day and shows as an International transfer not only in the bank book when updated but also in the Bangkok Bank App.

No fees or charges at either end, maybe a less advantageous exchange rate but no worries etc. 4 monthly payments so far and all with no problems.

When FD Bank first setup this free service I transferred money in GBP to my Bangkok Bank and got the Bangkok TT rate (very good rate) and no charges either end. The second time I tried FD would no longer allow me to send in GBP and the website would convert to THB (a quite good rate) but then Bangkok Bank levied fees at the other end. If what you're now saying is true I'll have another look at this. I just did a quick comparison on Transferwise £1710 = 65,208 THB - HSBC (FD parent bank) £1710 = 63304 THB plus fees at the Thai end. Now if you sent GBP to your Thai bank via HSBC you will get a better exchange rate with £4 fee from HSBC and no fees at the Thai end because they make their profit from the currency conversion. If HSBC had retail banking in Thailand none of this would be a problem as internal transfers are free.  

From Bangkok Bank website: 

What fees are payable to receive funds from abroad?

The fee is 0.25% of the total amount (minimum fee of 200 baht and a maximum fee of 500 baht). However, an intermediary bank (between the sending bank and Bangkok Bank) may also deduct an additional handling fee before sending funds to us.

 

When I send GBP to my Bangkok Bank they do not charge me any fees as they make money from the currency conversion. I don't know if that is just my branch or nationwide - perhaps others can comment.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Jaggg88

[thailand49]

I wrote this on another topic regarding Transferwise.

 

This is the Jomtien Immigration only, I was down on Monday and discuss the problem and was told " FTT is needed if you are using the monthly income method if you are using the 800,000 it isn't necessary "  just has to show the money in bank two months prior.

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, Haso said:

lately those international transfers have been recorded as SMART.

Could that be that those transfers were first received by one of Transferwise's other partners? When this issue first came to light it was thought that people needed to have a Bangkok Bank account for their transfers to appear as FET's - now that appears to have changed. As I stated in my OP I made a transfer in June and it went through Kasikorn's international department, finally arriving in my personal account as 'Dummy Branch'.

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

This is a situation that needs putting right. The guy I talked to at Transferwise seemed concerned that they may lose business through this. If people are having problems getting the correct documents then letting Tranferwise know about that may be the best way of getting change.

It isn't a situation that needs putting right, it's a change that you want that's a very different situation.

 

TransferWise accepts money in your home country, local transfer.

TransferWise tells  you a the conversion rate and fee.

TransferWise pays money into your designated bank account from their local funds, local transfer.

 

TransferWise does not make an international transfer for your money. 

 

sometimes/often Bankok bank account holders have the transfer coded as FTT sometimes not.

 

[pontious]

4 hours ago, chilly07 said:

TransferWise will set up a specific recipient tagged via Bangkok Bank to your Bangkok Bank account which always shows as an International Transfer in your Bangkok Bank account. Worked for me on my last 12 transfers!

You have been lucky. TW cannot and will not guarantee it will show as an international transfer. There are a zillion posts on this.

[stewartthailand]

15 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

When FD Bank first setup this free service I transferred money in GBP to my Bangkok Bank and got the Bangkok TT rate (very good rate) and no charges either end. The second time I tried FD would no longer allow me to send in GBP and the website would convert to THB (a quite good rate) but then Bangkok Bank levied fees at the other end. If what you're now saying is true I'll have another look at this. I just did a quick comparison on Transferwise £1710 = 65,208 THB - HSBC (FD parent bank) £1710 = 63304 THB plus fees at the Thai end. Now if you sent GBP to your Thai bank via HSBC you will get a better exchange rate with £4 fee from HSBC and no fees at the Thai end because they make their profit from the currency conversion. If HSBC had retail banking in Thailand none of this would be a problem as internal transfers are free.  

From Bangkok Bank website: 

What fees are payable to receive funds from abroad?

The fee is 0.25% of the total amount (minimum fee of 200 baht and a maximum fee of 500 baht). However, an intermediary bank (between the sending bank and Bangkok Bank) may also deduct an additional handling fee before sending funds to us.

 

When I send GBP to my Bangkok Bank they do not charge me any fees as they make money from the currency conversion. I don't know if that is just my branch or nationwide - perhaps others can comment.

Hi Jaggg88

i paid £4 to First Direct for the first transfer and after that no fee. Never a fee at Bangkok bank. Also I send sterling so as to maximize conversion rate at Bangkok Bank. I do everything on line so very easy.

[Just Looking]

18 hours ago, thailand49 said:

I wrote this on another topic regarding Transferwise.

 

This is the Jomtien Immigration only, I was down on Monday and discuss the problem and was told " FTT is needed if you are using the monthly income method if you are using the 800,000 it isn't necessary "  just has to show the money in bank two months prior.

Can I ask who told you that as I went yesterday to ask about this and was told no only 800,000 in bank allowed or letter from Embassy .

[pontious]

42 minutes ago, Just Looking said:

Can I ask who told you that as I went yesterday to ask about this and was told no only 800,000 in bank allowed or letter from Embassy . 

Did you ask at the front desk? If yes- that is a waste of time. Ask at desk 8 - the pre checkers will show you an example of the bank letter they want to see. It is the same one that is shown on Pattayaexpat website.

[KhaoYai]

20 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It isn't a situation that needs putting right, it's a change that you want that's a very different situation.

Whatever you want to call it - I'd suggest that putting pressure on Transferwise may be the best way to rectify this situation. They are likely to lose out on a lot of business otherwise.

[wgdanson]

8 hours ago, stewartthailand said:

Hi Jaggg88

i paid £4 to First Direct for the first transfer and after that no fee. Never a fee at Bangkok bank. Also I send sterling so as to maximize conversion rate at Bangkok Bank. I do everything on line so very easy.

I got free transfers from FD and only noticed the £20 to HSBC a month or two later.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Whatever you want to call it - I'd suggest that putting pressure on Transferwise may be the best way to rectify this situation. They are likely to lose out on a lot of business otherwise.

As I pointed out there is no situation to rectify. Just a few people who are trying to demand a company changes is policy, so they can save money, many of whom are the kind featured in Reddit EntitledPeople or Reddit TFTS. 

 

I doubt that the "business" they will not get is much compared to the usual amounts transacted. 

 

By all means try to get support for your desired change but you won't get any sympathy by whining about it.

 

All of my sympathy goes to the support people at TransferWise.

Edited July 18, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[soalbundy]

23 hours ago, pontious said:

You have been lucky. TW cannot and will not guarantee it will show as an international transfer. There are a zillion posts on this.

They don't have to, as long as they use the partner bank BKK I will be satisfied as BKK to BKK Bank shows FTT.

[lucky2008]

Last week I gave TW specific instructions by email asking them to route my funds from the US directly to my Bangkok Bank account without using any intermediary bank.

 

This is the reply I received: 

 

Hey XXXXXX,

 

Thanks again for getting back to us. 

 

What we can do for you is to add a tag to your recipient account where it will instruct the system to - as much as possible, send the funds via Bangkok Bank.

 

However we cannot guarantee that it will always be sent out via Bangkok Bank, as there could be unforeseen situations where Bangkok Bank might be facing a technical issue and the system will thus route the payment via another available partner to ensure same day delivery.

 

Additionally, this tag can only be added to THB bank accounts that are in your recipient list. So to add further clarification:

 

I'll add a tag to the THB account ending with XXXX that is currently in your recipient list, however if you need to send funds to another THB bank account - you'll have to get in touch with us again after adding the new bank account to your recipient list so that we can add a tag to the new account.

 

I hope this clarifies. If you need any further clarification, please feel free to reach put to us - we're here to help.

 

Best regards,

XXXX

 

***************************************************************************************

 

So yesterday I received a transfer to my Bangkok Bank account, but instead of the usual "International Transfer" message I see on my BualuangMBangkok mobile application it said "Interbank Transfer via SMART" 

 

This morning I went to by bank to update my passbook, and then saw that the usual FTT code was replaced with SMT.  

 

I asked the agent if it was possible to print out a credit advice for a SMT transfer, she said NO.

 

I then asked if it was possible to add this transfers onto my yearly confirmation letter, she said NO.

 

I then asked her to tell me where the transfer came from and if I could have a reference number.

 

She then called Bangkok Bank’s main office, and was able to provide me the intermediary bank name, and the reference number of the transfer.

In this particular case the intermediary bank was Kasikorn.

 

With the information Bangkok Bank HQ provided, I drove out to Kasikorn Banks’ International Trade Service Center department.  *Going to a regular Kasikorn branch won’t work I tried already.

 

Once I arrived to Kasikorn I told the agent I needed a “Certification Document” stating that the funds originated from overseas. I told her I needed it addressed to Bangkok Bank. 

 

The Kasikorn agent asked to see my passport and Bangkok Bank bankbook.  I filled out a small form and payed 200 baht.  They told me if in the future I have multiple transfers they would be able to merge these onto one document if needed.

 

Below is how the “Certification Document” looks.

 

 

 

 

I then took this “Certification Document” back to my bank, and the agent confirmed that they would now be able to add this transfer onto my yearly confirmation letter.

 

Problem solved? ????

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by lucky2008

[pontious]

39 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

They don't have to, as long as they use the partner bank BKK I will be satisfied as BKK to BKK Bank shows FTT.

And next month they may use TMB or Kasikorn and it will show as domestic transfer. You, and TW have no control of it. If BKK has a technical problem it will select one of the other banks to do it.

[pontious]

8 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Problem solved.....I think

And you are happy you maybe have to do this every month.

I will stick to Swift. When, if , TW have an answer I will go back to them.

[lucky2008]

Just now, pontious said:

And you are happy you maybe have to do this every month.

I will stick to Swift. When, if , TW have an answer I will go back to them.

You only have to do it once a year.  Kasikorn said multiple transfers can be merged onto one document.

 

I would do Swift as well, but at the end of the day the fees are just too much.  Over 80 USD per Swift in some cases.  

 

 

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, pontious said:

And you are happy you maybe have to do this every month.

I will stick to Swift. When, if , TW have an answer I will go back to them.

I just made a small transfer via TW £200 (GBP) and received 7637.67 baht -no charges from Kasikorn.

 

Out of interest, what sort of savings are we looking at by using TW over a standard Swift transfer?  I seem to remember that last time I made one I was charged by my bank in the UK, got a poor exchange rate and charged by the Thai bank to receive it.  I may not have done it the best way, I must admit.

 

So how much exactly are we saving whilst those using their transfers as evidence for a visa extension are having to endure all this hassle?

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

As I pointed out there is no situation to rectify.

That's your opinion, I think more than a few would disagree with you. Over the last few years the fall in value of many western currencies - especially that of the UK, together with the strength of the baht has made what was a comfortable retirement, very difficult for some ex pats in Thailand. Of course they are looking for ways of saving money - some banks were overcharging for foreign transfers, adding to the burden of such ex pats.

 

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

By all means try to get support for your desired change but you won't get any sympathy by whining about it.

First of all, I didn't set out to look for any sympathy - please note this matter does not affect me. But secondly, if raising an issue and stating that what's happening is wrong is whining - then we might as well all stop posting and TV close down.