Showing Income as a Foreign Exchange Transfer

[lucky2008]

So how much exactly are we saving compared to those using Swift? 

 

Not hard to figure out. 

 

Depending on the originating bank the SWIFT charge for the US can be anywhere from 45USD -65USD per transfer.

 

The Bangkok Bank charge is 0.25% of the total amount (minimum fee of 200 baht and a maximum fee of 500 baht). However, an intermediary bank (between the sending bank and Bangkok Bank) may also deduct an additional handling fee before sending funds to us. This handling fee ranges between 15USD -20USD

 

Doing multiple transfers per month can get quite expensive. 

 

Sometimes I make up to three transfers per month with TW at 25USD per transfer.   

 

For the money I'm saving on a yearly basis I really won't mind visiting Kasikorn once a year. 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by lucky2008

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, lucky2008 said:

For the money I'm saving on a yearly basis I really won't mind visiting Kasikorn once a year. 

Well then, based on those figures, its quite prudent that people choose to use TW.

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

13 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

As I pointed out there is no situation to rectify.

That's your opinion, I think more than a few would disagree with you. Over the last few years the fall in value of many western currencies - especially that of the UK, together with the strength of the baht has made what was a comfortable retirement, very difficult for some ex pats in Thailand. Of course they are looking for ways of saving money - some banks were overcharging for foreign transfers, adding to the burden of such ex pats.

You still haven't showed that there is any situation needing  recertification.

 

You have a very reasonable desire to minimise cost. 

 

Please show where TransferWise states that they do international transfers of your money into your account in Thailand, or any country. If you can do that then you have a  legitimate complaint.

 

Everything I have read is that they do not do that, they do local transfers in all the currencies. That sometimes a transfer is coded as international is an anomaly and they have always said that you  can not rely on it being coded that way.

 

 

[Pumpuynarak]

12 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Last week I gave TW specific instructions by email asking them to route my funds from the US directly to my Bangkok Bank account without using any intermediary bank.

 

This is the reply I received: 

 

Hey XXXXXX,

 

Thanks again for getting back to us. 

 

What we can do for you is to add a tag to your recipient account where it will instruct the system to - as much as possible, send the funds via Bangkok Bank.

 

However we cannot guarantee that it will always be sent out via Bangkok Bank, as there could be unforeseen situations where Bangkok Bank might be facing a technical issue and the system will thus route the payment via another available partner to ensure same day delivery.

 

Additionally, this tag can only be added to THB bank accounts that are in your recipient list. So to add further clarification:

 

I'll add a tag to the THB account ending with XXXX that is currently in your recipient list, however if you need to send funds to another THB bank account - you'll have to get in touch with us again after adding the new bank account to your recipient list so that we can add a tag to the new account.

 

I hope this clarifies. If you need any further clarification, please feel free to reach put to us - we're here to help.

 

Best regards,

XXXX

 

***************************************************************************************

 

So yesterday I received a transfer to my Bangkok Bank account, but instead of the usual "International Transfer" message I see on my BualuangMBangkok mobile application it said "Interbank Transfer via SMART" 

 

This morning I went to by bank to update my passbook, and then saw that the usual FTT code was replaced with SMT.  

 

I asked the agent if it was possible to print out a credit advice for a SMT transfer, she said NO.

 

I then asked if it was possible to add this transfers onto my yearly confirmation letter, she said NO.

 

I then asked her to tell me where the transfer came from and if I could have a reference number.

 

She then called Bangkok Bank’s main office, and was able to provide me the intermediary bank name, and the reference number of the transfer.

In this particular case the intermediary bank was Kasikorn.

 

With the information Bangkok Bank HQ provided, I drove out to Kasikorn Banks’ International Trade Service Center department.  *Going to a regular Kasikorn branch won’t work I tried already.

 

Once I arrived to Kasikorn I told the agent I needed a “Certification Document” stating that the funds originated from overseas. I told her I needed it addressed to Bangkok Bank. 

 

The Kasikorn agent asked to see my passport and Bangkok Bank bankbook.  I filled out a small form and payed 200 baht.  They told me if in the future I have multiple transfers they would be able to merge these onto one document if needed.

 

Below is how the “Certification Document” looks.

 

 

 

 

I then took this “Certification Document” back to my bank, and the agent confirmed that they would now be able to add this transfer onto my yearly confirmation letter.

 

Problem solved? ????

 

 

 

 

What happens if your TW transfer is routed through TMB, ya gonna drive out to their office too ?

Expats are living all over Thailand, where exactly are you driving to ?

Edited July 19, 2019 by Pumpuynarak

[BertM]

6 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

So how much exactly are we saving compared to those using Swift? 

 

Not hard to figure out. 

 

Depending on the originating bank the SWIFT charge for the US can be anywhere from 45USD -65USD per transfer.

 

The Bangkok Bank charge is 0.25% of the total amount (minimum fee of 200 baht and a maximum fee of 500 baht). However, an intermediary bank (between the sending bank and Bangkok Bank) may also deduct an additional handling fee before sending funds to us. This handling fee ranges between 15USD -20USD

 

Doing multiple transfers per month can get quite expensive. 

 

Sometimes I make up to three transfers per month with TW at 25USD per transfer.   

 

For the money I'm saving on a yearly basis I really won't mind visiting Kasikorn once a year. 

 

Not everyone is paying Swift fees. My bank (Chase Bank) in the US, does not charge me any Swift fees due to my relationship level with them. I'm so glad I don't have to hassle with TW and have to worry about xfers not being coded correctly.

Edited July 19, 2019 by BertM

[Snow Leopard]

On 7/17/2019 at 1:51 PM, Black arab said:

I used xendpay recently, this gave the FTT i needed on my statement and bank book.

Thanks. So why does everyone keep using transferwise when it doesn't show as a foreign transfer transaction on their account. Use another service that does as you say.

[sometimewoodworker]

35 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

Thanks. So why does everyone keep using transferwise when it doesn't show as a foreign transfer transaction on their account. Use another service that does as you say.

Probably because TransferWise is cheaper and they feel that they are  [sarcasm] the customer and the customer is always right so they must get what they want [\sarcasm] even when the service they want is not one that the company offers.

 

Or they don't want to take the time to find a company that does offer the service they want.

[lucky2008]

3 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

What happens if your TW transfer is routed through TMB, ya gonna drive out to their office too ?

Expats are living all over Thailand, where exactly are you driving to ?

 I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.  

 

 Kasikorn has over 50+ International Trade Center departments in Thailand.

[lucky2008]

1 hour ago, BertM said:

Not everyone is paying Swift fees. My bank (Chase Bank) in the US, does not charge me any Swift fees due to my relationship level with them. I'm so glad I don't have to hassle with TW and have to worry about xfers not being coded correctly.

I'm also with Chase and they always charge me 45USD for all international Swift transactions.

 

What type of relationship do you have with them exactly if I might ask? 

[lucky2008]

37 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Probably because TransferWise is cheaper and they feel that they are  [sarcasm] the customer and the customer is always right so they must get what they want [\sarcasm] even when the service they want is not one that the company offers.

 

Or they don't want to take the time to find a company that does offer the service they want.

From my experience TW is the most cost effective way to send money into Thailand.  

 

I save close to 3000USD per year using TW instead of Swift. 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

4 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

From my experience TW is the most cost effective way to send money into Thailand.  

 

I save close to 3000USD per year using TW instead of Swift. 

 

I'm absolutely with you on that. The only cheaper way I have found is by carrying cash if you have to travel anyway. The only difficulty is that neither of those methods are always OK for an extension of stay, cash never and TW no guarantee of proof of international transfere. 

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, lucky2008 said:

 

Do you mean you're saving about $300 USD per year difference between TW and Swift?

Edited July 19, 2019 by JohnnyBD

[BertM]

52 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

I'm also with Chase and they always charge me 45USD for all international Swift transactions.

 

What type of relationship do you have with them exactly if I might ask? 

Chase Private Client...

[lucky2008]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

You must mean you're saving $300 USD per year difference between TW and Swift. Not $3,000.

Swift fee - 65USD

Intermediary bank fee - 20USD

Destination bank commission 15USD 

 

Total fee for Swift per transfer- 100USD

 

I make 3 transfers per month

 

Total Transferwise fee per transfer 16.00USD (Fee will vary depending on amount) 

 

Total savings =3024USD per year

[lucky2008]

33 minutes ago, BertM said:

Chase Private Client...

Normally Chase Private Clients are required to maintain an average daily balance of 250K right?

 

How about sending me a personal invitation so I can join the club lol

 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by lucky2008

[BertM]

41 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Swift fee - 65USD

Intermediary bank fee - 20USD

Destination bank commission 15USD 

 

Total fee for Swift per transfer- 100USD

 

I make 3 transfers per month

 

Total Transferwise fee per transfer 16.00USD (Fee will vary depending on amount) 

 

Total savings =3024USD per year

Wow... Thai immigration only requires one transfer a month to meet the requirements for extensions. When I do a Swift xfer from Chase, there's no Intermediary banks involved and no fees at my bank in Thailand. I guess I'm fortunate. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by BertM

[Tanoshi]

15 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

With the information Bangkok Bank HQ provided, I drove out to Kasikorn Banks’ International Trade Service Center department.  *Going to a regular Kasikorn branch won’t work I tried already.

 

Once I arrived to Kasikorn I told the agent I needed a “Certification Document” stating that the funds originated from overseas. I told her I needed it addressed to Bangkok Bank. 

 

The Kasikorn agent asked to see my passport and Bangkok Bank bankbook.  I filled out a small form and payed 200 baht.  They told me if in the future I have multiple transfers they would be able to merge these onto one document if needed.

 

Below is how the “Certification Document” looks.

Firstly, thanks for posting the FET form from Kasikorn.

 

There was a technical issue the beginning of July with TW transfers through the BKK partner account and hundreds of transfers subsequently went through Kasikorn to BKK accounts.

As you've stated, the required proof is only available from one of Kasikorn International Trade offices, but as these are widely spaced out throughout Thailand, expats in rural areas are confronted with up to a 4 hour drive to the nearest branch.

 

If this situation arose just twice a year, with the inconvenience and travel costs involved, then considering making direct foreign bank to Thai bank transfers, even with the higher transfer costs is looking a more viable option and does guarantee the required International transfer coding.

Each individual has to assess the risk and cost and make their own judgement call.

 

 

[mosan]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Firstly, thanks for posting the FET form from Kasikorn.

 

There was a technical issue the beginning of July with TW transfers through the BKK partner account and hundreds of transfers subsequently went through Kasikorn to BKK accounts.

As you've stated, the required proof is only available from one of Kasikorn International Trade offices, but as these are widely spaced out throughout Thailand, expats in rural areas are confronted with up to a 4 hour drive to the nearest branch.

 

If this situation arose just twice a year, with the inconvenience and travel costs involved, then considering making direct foreign bank to Thai bank transfers, even with the higher transfer costs is looking a more viable option and does guarantee the required International transfer coding.

Each individual has to assess the risk and cost and make their own judgement call.

 

 

I'm going to contact Kasikorn's International Trade office through email, supply them with the information from TransferWise on a recent transfer, and see if they're capable of providing me with the aforementioned certification document without physically showing up at their office. I'll report back if I hear from them. If I don't hear from them, I'll see if there is an office locally (Ubon Ratchathani) and see what happens...

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, mosan said:

I'm going to contact Kasikorn's International Trade office through email, supply them with the information from TransferWise on a recent transfer, and see if they're capable of providing me with the aforementioned certification document without physically showing up at their office. I'll report back if I hear from them. If I don't hear from them, I'll see if there is an office locally (Ubon Ratchathani) and see what happens...

 

 

You do understand that TW is a domestic transfer in Thailand and funds are not received by K Bank "from overseas".

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Please show where TransferWise states that they do international transfers of your money into your account in Thailand, or any country. If you can do that then you have a  legitimate complaint.

I have never complained about Transferwise's methods. As you know a situation arose where the embassies of some countries stopped verifying the income of their nationals for visa purposes. In their new rules regarding retirement extensions the Thai authorities require applicants using the income method to prove that income comes from abroad.

 

Many people use companies like Transferwise to transfer their income to their Thai bank accounts but in a great many cases, these transfers do not show as FET's and so do not satisfy the Thai authorities that such funds come from abroad.

 

You are using semantics - of course this is not the fault of Transferwise, its not even the fault of the Thai banks but nevertheless its a situation that needs to change - note I use 'change' instead of 'rectify' to satisfy your desire for correct terminology.

 

I would suggest that it would be far eaiser for companies like TW and others, together with their Thai banking partners, to effect such change and have their transfers show as FET's that it would be to persuade the Thai authorities to change their rules.

 

The Thai authorities are unlikely to be persuaded to accept any documentation from TW because of the scope for abuse so that leaves extension applicants either trying to get some form of change from TW and the banks or to use standard bank transfers.  However, I am no expert on banking practices but I fear that even using standard bank transfers could run into problems - I seem to remember making a transfer a few years ago and it not going directly into my personal bank account. If I remember correctly, it was first sent to a central account at the bank's head office and then on to my account.  I cannot speak for other banks but with Kasikorn that would show as a domestic transfer and as such would require a letter from Kasikorn's head office stating that the transfer was in fact a FET.

 

If TW and others are unable to do anything to persuade their Thai banking partners to show transfers made through them are FET's then perhaps TW could make sure that they always go through the same Thai bank. That way the recipients would only have to go to one bank to get certification that their transfers are in fact FET.

 

Rectification, change, problem, correct - how does it matter how its termed? The fact is that people trying to save as much of their money as possible are running into problems and all they are doing is trying to put that right. Or is 'putting it right' too strong a term for you?

Edited July 19, 2019 by KhaoYai

[BertM]

55 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

You do understand that TW is a domestic transfer in Thailand and funds are not received by K Bank "from overseas".

I guess some people prefer to do it the hard way to save some THB. Some Immigration offices may not even accept all of those separate forms. I wouldn't want to make 12 monthly TW transfers and then go to the banks asking for documents showing transfers came from overseas, only to show up at immigration and be told that those documents are not acceptable. Then, you're screwed and have to start over.

Edited July 19, 2019 by BertM

[mosan]

58 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You do understand that TW is a domestic transfer in Thailand and funds are not received by K Bank "from overseas".

Do you understand that there is a paper trail that shows you deposited money with TW from your foreign account overseas...  It's not about money actually traveling from point A to point B, it's about documentation that "your funds" specifically originated outside of Thailand. That's what this whole coding debacle is about.  Everybody knows money isn't physically moving around the world!

Edited July 19, 2019 by mosan
clarity

[KhaoYai]

6 hours ago, BertM said:

My bank (Chase Bank) in the US, does not charge me any Swift fees due to my relationship level with them.

I know nothing of US bank practices but you would be wise to check what exchange rate you are given on those transactions.  I've seen several UK banks claiming to do cheap or even free transfers abroad but when you look into it, they get their money by giving you a poor exchange rate.  If yours is good, then you are lucky indeed.

[mosan]

2 minutes ago, BertM said:

Some Immigration offices may not even accept all of those separate forms. I wouldn't want to make 12 monthly TW transfers and then go to the banks asling and begging for supporting documents, then only to show up at immigration and be told that those are not acceptable. Then, you're screwed and have to start over.

You missed the point that no one should be intending to show up at immigrations with 12 different forms.  The TW documents should be used get the reference numbers of said transfers so that a bank (be it TMB Kasikorn, or Bangkok Bank) can provide you with a letter that shows your transfers and verifies that they originated--through TransferWise--from an overseas location. 

[lucky2008]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You do understand that TW is a domestic transfer in Thailand and funds are not received by K Bank "from overseas".

Whatever the case may be the "Confirmation Document" clearly states in Thai :

 

1. The funds originated from overseas.

2. From who the funds came from.

3. Reference number of the transfer.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by lucky2008

[BertM]

14 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I know nothing of US bank practices but you would be wise to check what exchange rate you are given on those transactions.  I've seen several UK banks claiming to do cheap or even free transfers abroad but when you look into it, they get their money by giving you a poor exchange rate.  If yours is good, then you are lucky indeed.

I transfer USD and do the THB conversion in Thailand at Citibank since they offer me better rates than most of the Thai banks. I then transfer THB (no fees) to KBank to use for my yearly  extension. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by BertM

[BertM]

9 minutes ago, mosan said:

You missed the point that no one should be intending to show up at immigrations with 12 different forms.  The TW documents should be used get the reference numbers of said transfers so that a bank (be it TMB Kasikorn, or Bangkok Bank) can provide you with a letter that shows your transfers and verifies that they originated--through TransferWise--from an overseas location. 

You missed the point. I never said 12 forms. I just said separate forms which meant separate forms from what immigration wants; a standard bank letter and bank book with all transactions coded as foreign. Up to you... I don't even use monthly method and my Swift wire xfer fees are free anyway... so I don't need to worry about running all over to get separate forms from international banking centers.

Edited July 19, 2019 by BertM

[sometimewoodworker]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I have never complained about Transferwise's methods. As you know a situation arose where the embassies of some countries stopped verifying the income of their nationals for visa purposes. In their new rules regarding retirement extensions the Thai authorities require applicants using the income method to prove that income comes from abroad.

 

Many people use companies like Transferwise to transfer their income to their Thai bank accounts but in a great many cases, these transfers do not show as FET's and so do not satisfy the Thai authorities that such funds come from abroad.

 

You are using semantics - of course this is not the fault of Transferwise, its not even the fault of the Thai banks but nevertheless its a situation that needs to change - note I use 'change' instead of 'rectify' to satisfy your desire for correct terminology.

You have constantly said that TransferWise should code it transfers as international and that a failure to do so needs to be corrected or changed, it does not.

 

It seems that you don't understand that the reason that TransferWise gives for its low cost of moving money from your account in country to an account in another country is that it does not make individual international transfers. They may well be making bulk transfers or no transfers at all. The transfers are guaranteed to be local and quite fast.

 

immigration requirements are 1 or more monthly individual international transfers. That is not a service that has ever been offered by TransferWise. That sometimes transfers are coded as FTT is a bonus not a right.

 

Moving money cheaply to Thailand TW is good.

 

Satisfyingly immigration requirements using TW, no guarantee is going to work, no commitment from TW that it will, lucky if it does. No grounds for complaining, until or unless TW offers an international coded service probably at a significant cost, if they ever do.

[Jip99]

19 minutes ago, mosan said:

Do you understand that there is a paper trail that shows you deposited money with TW from your foreign account overseas...  It's not about money actually traveling from point A to point B, it's about documentation that "your funds" specifically originated outside of Thailand. That's what this whole coding debacle is about.  Everybody knows money isn't physically moving around the world!

 

The point is........ I think you are barking up the wrong tree trying to get K Bank to 'certify' (that is what immigration want) an incoming payment that has not been received by them from overseas. Bank to bank they could justifiably do it..... through TW I doubt it.

 

I am well aware of banking audit trails - I spent 31 years with them. Thai immigration do not giving a flying fart about audit trails, all they want is evidence - what they determine to be evidence - not anyone else.

[mosan]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

The point is........ I think you are barking up the wrong tree trying to get K Bank to 'certify' (that is what immigration want) an incoming payment that has not been received by them from overseas. Bank to bank they could justifiably do it..... through TW I doubt it.

 

I am well aware of banking audit trails - I spent 31 years with them. Thai immigration do not giving a flying fart about audit trails, all they want is evidence - what they determine to be evidence - not anyone else.

My god man, have you not been reading the whole thread where an individual got K Bank to provide him with proof of a transfer so that BBL could print him a letter to use at immigrations  saying "yes" the transfer (even though coded as SMART) received through K Bank is in fact international.

 

Or, did you just jump in halfway through the thread and missed that part?  Thirty-one years means nothing if you don't read and comprehend what been said...