30 Days limit, arriving late at 23:55.

[Gustomucho]

Hi, I am planning a trip to Thailand, I am from Canada, based on my research I can stay 30 days without a visa.

 

My flight would be arriving at BKK on the 1st of November at 23:55; if I wait until 00:00 to get over the immigration process, will they date it as arriving November 2nd? 

 

I plan to stay until the 1st of December, that would be 30 days if they date the arrival the 2nd but 31 days if they date arrival on the 1st of November.  The difference in airfare price is around $500 dollars or 12 hours layover in Shangai so the dates are pretty important.

[Date Masamune]

Your day of arrival is counted as day 1.

Even if your flight is early doubt you could pass immigration by 00:01AM even if you tried you can always dawdle at the Arrival Card writing desks. Permission of stay would be until Dec 1.

 

Go take a break in the toilets?

 

[Gustomucho]

So my date of arrival would be November the 2nd?

[Date Masamune]

Yes. Always check your stamp before leaving the immigration desk area, and don’t overstay!

 

[Crossy]

The time the immigration chaps change the stamps seems to be a bit variable, but it should be well past midnight by the time you get to the desks anyway.

 

Check your stamp before leaving the desk and ask the officer to change it if it's incorrect. Even if he won't you would only have one day overstay on the 1st December, no fine and a small stamp in your PP.

 

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Even if he won't you would only have one day overstay on the 1st December, no fine and a small stamp in your PP.

If he wont? He have the duty to change if its wrong. All people do not want undesired "small stamps" in their passport. Probably the reason why the OP asks, because I don´t think the main reason is for 500 baht (if that would have been the case, but its not).

If he refuse to change its just to speak to a superior. Making them work the right way can only be achieved if more people stand up and tell them when something is wrong.

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

If he wont? He have the duty to change if its wrong.

 

It wouldn't be the first time that the date or arrival of the flight rather than the time you arrive at the desks has been cited as day 1.

 

In the current climate, arguing with an immigration officer or his superior when you've called him (which I omitted to mention), is, shall we say unwise.

 

[Matzzon]

18 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

It wouldn't be the first time that the date or arrival of the flight rather than the time you arrive at the desks has been cited as day 1.

 

In the current climate, arguing with an immigration officer or his superior when you've called him (which I omitted to mention), is, shall we say unwise.

 

Ok, let´s say it might. In that case the best option is to go to an immigration office and pay for an extension, even if only one day is needed. then the OP has done all right and have nothing to worry about. We are talking about 1900 baht here, and probably not an object.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Ok, let´s say it might. In that case the best option is to go to an immigration office and pay for an extension, even if only one day is needed. then the OP has done all right and have nothing to worry about. We are talking about 1900 baht here, and probably not an object.

No. If leaving on day 31 from either Bangkok airport there is no point wasting time an money applying for an extension. 

 

Immigration, at BKK, do do not charge an overstay fee if the overstay is less than 24 hours.

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, Gustomucho said:

So my date of arrival would be November the 2nd?

Probably.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

No. If leaving on day 31 from either Bangkok airport there is no point wasting time an money applying for an extension. 

 

Immigration, at BKK, do do not charge an overstay fee if the overstay is less than 24 hours.

It doesn´t matter if they charge or no charge. The thing is that it is an overstay. If you then compare overstaying 1 day, with an extension that not leads to an overstay. Then how ever you would like to turn things around to be right, the only real answer is that the extension is the best choice.

What you are suggesting is a little hole in the system, and a cheap way out still doing it the wrong way, hence your stamp in the passport. Do you really believe that Immigration department from bosses to the people on the floor likes that behaviour? Maybe that kind of way to treat the country as a guest, is one of the many reasons why things get harder all the time.

Summary of the exact thing you are suggesting and condoning with your comment is: Never mind, break the immigration law, out of the simple reason you do not have to pay for the first day when leaving.

My question is: Would you feel happy if a person you provided with an answer would get caught on the way to the airport or when exiting his hotel?

Edited July 17, 2019 by Matzzon

[Suradit69]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

t wouldn't be the first time that the date or arrival of the flight rather than the time you arrive at the desks has been cited as day 1.

Yes, that's what I thought too. Pitching up at immigrations a few minutes past midnight would mean his flight arrived before midnight and the IO is probably aware of when his flight landed anyway.

 

if the IO already changed his date stamp, he might let it go, but if he's a stickler for accuracy, he might still change the arrival stamp back to the date before midnight .

 

Also agree that starting an argument isn't going to teach the IO a lesson, as suggested by another poster and I doubt the officer's superior is going to side with the passenger on a flight that clearly disembarked the day before.

 

Best to hope that the flight arrives a bit late.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Suradit69

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

It doesn´t matter if they charge or no charge. The thing is that it is an overstay. If you then compare overstaying 1 day, with an extension that not leads to an overstay. Then how ever you would like to turn things around to be right, the only real answer is that the extension is the best choice.

What you are suggesting is a little hole in the system, and a cheap way out still doing it the wrong way, hence your stamp in the passport. Do you really believe that Immigration department from bosses to the people on the floor likes that behaviour? Maybe that kind of way to treat the country as a guest, is one of the many reasons why things get harder all the time.

The “bosses” are clearly not bothered by a 1 day overstay, which is why they order fines to be waived.

 

They also do not, in most cases, issue a standard overstay stamp. They stamp the passport stating specifically that the person overstated less than 24 hours, to highlight its not a problem.

 

The reason they make this concession is because many people do not realise that the day the arrive counts as day 1, and in trying to maximise their stay book flights which turn out to be on day 31.

 

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Summary of the exact thing you are suggesting and condoning with your comment is: Never mind, break the immigration law, out of the simple reason you do not have to pay for the first day when leaving.

My question is: Would you feel happy if a person you provided with an answer would get caught on the way to the airport or when exiting his hotel?

No one is going to be arrested and sent through the court system if caught on the way to the airport on day 31.

 

I am 100% happy to advise anyone leaving on day 31 from BKK that they needn’t bother extending their stay as a formal concession is in place as authorised by the “bosses”.

[Matzzon]

6 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No one is going to be arrested and sent through the court system if caught on the way to the airport on day 31.

 

I am 100% happy to advise anyone leaving on day 31 from BKK that they needn’t bother extending their stay as a formal concession is in place as authorised by the “bosses”.

You do not know that 100%.

Overstaying is breaking the law. You are advising people to break the law, as well as you also break the forum rules by condining and advising about an illegal activity. I wouldn´t be happy about that.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Matzzon

[Tracyb]

there IS another option.....

If the OP's flight on Dec 1 is very early in the day, as in the wee morning hours, he might be able, depending on his airline, to check his baggage in and go through Immigration very late in the day on Nov 30.  It's a long shot I know.....but just a thought?

 

[elviajero]

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

You do not know that 100%.

I know that a formal concession is in place and I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for a 1 day overstay. Why would they.

 

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Overstaying is breaking the law. You are advising people to break the law, as well as you also break the forum rules by condining and advising about an illegal activity. I wouldn´t be happy about that.

I am not breaking any forum rules and I’m not condoning overstaying. I am advising based on an overstay if less than 24 hours and explained why the authorities do not enforce the law in those cases.

[Matzzon]

33 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I know that a formal concession is in place and I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for a 1 day overstay. Why would they.

 

I am not breaking any forum rules and I’m not condoning overstaying. I am advising based on an overstay if less than 24 hours and explained why the authorities do not enforce the law in those cases.

Have it your way. The way I explained is the right way, and it doesn´t matter what you excuse yourself with.

[Gustomucho]

My problem is that they can outright refuse entrance to the country if I do not have the return flight ticket (or outbound ticket) within 30 days.  Depending on the flight I catch, I could leave BKK at 1:15 in the morning on Dec 1st (could easily check my baggage before midnight) but the immigration agent could just outright say NO, it is 31 days...  I guess it depends on how friendly the agent will be.

[petedk]

The time the immigration chaps change the stamps seems to be a bit variable, but it should be well past midnight by the time you get to the desks anyway.
 
Check your stamp before leaving the desk and ask the officer to change it if it's incorrect. Even if he won't you would only have one day overstay on the 1st December, no fine and a small stamp in your PP.
 

You are all mentioning overstay fine but the OP is talking about a 500$ difference in air ticket price.

Sent from my SM-C710F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

The “bosses” are clearly not bothered by a 1 day overstay, which is why they order fines to be waived.

 

They also do not, in most cases, issue a standard overstay stamp. They stamp the passport stating specifically that the person overstated less than 24 hours, to highlight its not a problem.

 

The reason they make this concession is because many people do not realise that the day the arrive counts as day 1, and in trying to maximise their stay book flights which turn out to be on day 31.

 

No one is going to be arrested and sent through the court system if caught on the way to the airport on day 31.

 

I am 100% happy to advise anyone leaving on day 31 from BKK that they needn’t bother extending their stay as a formal concession is in place as authorised by the “bosses”.

And if they later decide to stay long term on an elite visa with an overstay stamp? Might be knocked back on application. 

Keep it legal as far as I'm concerned.

[lamyai3]

15 hours ago, Gustomucho said:

My flight would be arriving at BKK on the 1st of November at 23:55; if I wait until 00:00 to get over the immigration process, will they date it as arriving November 2nd? 

Similar thing happened to me a few years ago - flight arrival scheduled from HK at 0010, but touched down at around 2355, fifteen minutes early. I didn't expect a problem passing through immigration around half an hour or so later, but the IO stamped me in using the earlier date. When I queried and asked her if she can change it, she was very clear - it was not the scheduled landing time and date that needed to be stamped, but the actual one. This resulted in me getting a 91 day stay as my flight out was already booked, and therefore a one day (no fine) overstay stamp, very annoying.

 

In your case, if the flight lands on time or early, I doubt going through immigration a while after midnight would get you the later stamp. I'm not sure what would be the case if your flight is recorded as having touched down ten minutes late though. Must happen frequently with the number of arrivals close to midnight. 

[elviajero]

50 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

And if they later decide to stay long term on an elite visa with an overstay stamp? Might be knocked back on application. 

Keep it legal as far as I'm concerned.

An overstay of less than 24 hours will not stop someone getting a PE visa.

 

[RoadWarrior371]

29 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

 

 

In your case, if the flight lands on time or early, I doubt going through immigration a while after midnight would get you the later stamp. I'm not sure what would be the case if your flight is recorded as having touched down ten minutes late though. Must happen frequently with the number of arrivals close to midnight. 

It seems there are a lot of benches, restrooms, waiting areas ahead of Airport Immigration, I would just loiter, check my email, freshen up, and go thru immigration well after midnight.  At least that will increase your chance of getting a correct stamp.  Enjoy.

 

 

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

It seems there are a lot of benches, restrooms, waiting areas ahead of Airport Immigration, I would just loiter, check my email, freshen up, and go thru immigration well after midnight.  At least that will increase your chance of getting a correct stamp.  Enjoy.

 

That's not what I'm saying. It's not the time you pass through immigration that counts, it's the logged landing time of the flight. If this falls the wrong side of midnight you'll be date stamped in accordingly. In my case my flight landed early and it worked against me, whereas if the OPs flight touches down ten minutes late it would work in his favour (assuming they're consistent in applying these rules). 

[treetops]

No one has yet mentioned that you may not be allowed to board your flight when the airline check in staff see your intended return date means you'll be in country for 31 days without an appropriate visa.

[Date Masamune]

An overstay of less than 24 hours will not stop someone getting a PE visa.   

 

Sure. What I have read (only here in TVF) is only one overstay is tolerated by Thailand Elite. The best reason to avoid short Thai overstay is to apply for visas or entries to OTHER countries. Almost always overstay is avoidable. Exception. When on last day and flight is cancelled. So, here is what my inner IO asks. “Why you no stay 28 days? Why not to immigration and pay extension 1900 baht?” If one is sick or injured a medical extension is available from the attending Physician. 

Bad advice to suggest short overstay as it remains on your record forever, shows disrespect to Thai law, and is never a positive.

 

 

[DrDave]

18 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

Your day of arrival is counted as day 1.

Even if your flight is early doubt you could pass immigration by 00:01AM even if you tried you can always dawdle at the Arrival Card writing desks. Permission of stay would be until Dec 1.

 

Go take a break in the toilets?

 

Yes, I got caught out by this on my last entry.

I arrived just before midnight and was expecting day 1 to be the next day, so that 30 days would be the date of my outbound flight. Not so, as I was given 29 days, starting the next day. By my reasoning, if you were to be granted a 1 day permission to stay, you should be permitted to stay through the next day. That's not the way Immigration sees it, though. In the case where you arrive a 11pm and are granted a 1 day permission to stay, remaining in Thailand for more than one hour, would be considered an overstay.

Of course a 1 day permission to stay isn't a practical example, but it can be extrapolated as an example of how they (incorrectly IMHO) count the number of days.

Thankfully, there's a 1 day overstay grace period at BKK when flying out.

Edited July 17, 2019 by DrDave

[shy coconut]

I didn't think that you had officially entered a country until clearing immigration.

It has been stated that they, the IO's, have the power to refuse entry, which is

different to deporting as the refusee hasn't yet entered the country.

 

I may well be wrong as a poster above states that immigration work on the

precise moment that the wheels hit the runway.

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, shy coconut said:

I didn't think that you had officially entered a country until clearing immigration. It has been stated that they, the IO's, have the power to refuse entry, which is

different to deporting as the refusee hasn't yet entered the country.

My understanding as well

[RoadWarrior371]

8 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

That's not what I'm saying. It's not the time you pass through immigration that counts, it's the logged landing time of the flight. If this falls the wrong side of midnight you'll be date stamped in accordingly. In my case my flight landed early and it worked against me, whereas if the OPs flight touches down ten minutes late it would work in his favour (assuming they're consistent in applying these rules). 

I know what you think you are saying, but remember TIT (this is Thailand).   I checked my December flight that was scheduled to land on Dec 8th at 23:55.  Landed early at 23:45, and the stamp in my passport is Dec 9th.  Perhaps he was too lazy to turn the date on the stamp back after midnight, but always bet on 'lazy' is the lesson for today.  Your mileage may vary.