Allies play hard to get on U.S. proposal to protect oil shipping lanes

[marcusarelus]

18 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Another "I don't like Trump but..." One day I'm going to run across one of those I believe.

 

Politically Trump needs them. Right now the US only has the assistance of the UK. And that ain't much. The US navy really doesn't have the right kind of naval craft  there to do the job right. And the more help he gets the more legitimate his effort looks. Can't imagine most are going to cooperate. Not going to bail trump out of the mess he created. 

Riyadh and Abu Dhabi support U.S. sanctions on Iran.  Britain has a base in Oman and ships in the area.  Saudi Arabia and the UAE are already patrolling the coastline off Yemen.  

The United States, which has protected shipping lanes in the region for many years with its Bahrain-based Fifth Fleet also is in charge of the Combined Maritime Forces, a 33-nation naval alliance that carries out security and anti piracy operations in the region.

 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So the US doesn't enough ships to keep shipping lanes open. And it needs those of other nations.

U.S. Forming New Persian Gulf Plan, Enlisting Other Countries to Keep Watch

An emerging U.S. plan for deterring attacks on tankers that Washington blames on Iran calls for ships from Arab, Asian and other foreign nations to stand watch in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman while maritime patrol planes fly overhead, U.S. officials said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-forming-new-persian-gulf-plan-enlisting-other-countries-to-keep-watch-11561656030

Story is a month old.

[bristolboy]

38 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Riyadh and Abu Dhabi support U.S. sanctions on Iran.  Britain has a base in Oman and ships in the area.  Saudi Arabia and the UAE are already patrolling the coastline off Yemen.  

The United States, which has protected shipping lanes in the region for many years with its Bahrain-based Fifth Fleet also is in charge of the Combined Maritime Forces, a 33-nation naval alliance that carries out security and anti piracy operations in the region.

 

The Saudis and the UAE supports the US sanctions against Iran? Really? Now there's a shocker. And the UK's there already. (And the UK had made quite clear it's displeasure with Trump's threat of sanctions on enterprises that do business with Iran.) Any of the other signatories to the nuclear deal coming forward? Any other European nations at all? Any other from the worlds most advanced economies? Don't think the USA is feeling much love right now.

[bristolboy]

40 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Story is a month old.

I think that point actually works against you. A month has gone by and very very few have volunteered.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, PhonThong said:

Really? The U.S. didn't seize any Iranian Oil tanker.

Actually they did by proxy with the UK which is why the UK now has a problem with Iran.

 

It is now time for the USA to get sanctioned and the rest of the world to ignore US sanctions.

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The Saudis and the UAE supports the US sanctions against Iran? Really? Now there's a shocker. And the UK's there already. (And the UK had made quite clear it's displeasure with Trump's threat of sanctions on enterprises that do business with Iran.) Any of the other signatories to the nuclear deal coming forward? Any other European nations at all? Any other from the worlds most advanced economies? Don't think the USA is feeling much love right now.

The Brits are now asking for USA assistance. Don't think love has anything to do with surveillance intel. 

 

The Winner From Trump’s Iran Sanctions? Saudi Arabia

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-12/the-winner-from-trump-s-iran-sanctions-saudi-arabia

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The Winner From Trump’s Iran Sanctions? Saudi Arabia

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-12/the-winner-from-trump-s-iran-sanctions-saudi-arabia

Oh, the nation effectively headed by the guy who kidnapped Lebanon's head of state, is waging a brutal  and remarkably militarily ineffective war on Yemen, (but quite effective in killing civilians and targeting hospitals) nearly went to war with Qatar on an incident manufactured by the UAE, and to which Trump is now proposing to sell the technology to enrich uranium.

What can I say, but Hooray?

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The Brits are now asking for USA assistance. Don't think love has anything to do with surveillance intel. 

 

The Winner From Trump’s Iran Sanctions? Saudi Arabia

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-12/the-winner-from-trump-s-iran-sanctions-saudi-arabia

Well the Brits are kind of stuck there, aren't they?

[candide]

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Riyadh and Abu Dhabi support U.S. sanctions on Iran.  Britain has a base in Oman and ships in the area.  Saudi Arabia and the UAE are already patrolling the coastline off Yemen.  

The United States, which has protected shipping lanes in the region for many years with its Bahrain-based Fifth Fleet also is in charge of the Combined Maritime Forces, a 33-nation naval alliance that carries out security and anti piracy operations in the region.

 

The combined Maritime Forces case is completely different from  the USA-Iran case.

[candide]

7 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

The Brits are now asking for USA assistance. Don't think love has anything to do with surveillance intel. 

 

The Winner From Trump’s Iran Sanctions? Saudi Arabia

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-12/the-winner-from-trump-s-iran-sanctions-saudi-arabia

Trump has acted on behalf of S.A., so no wonder S.A. is the main beneficiary.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies about WWI have been removed. 

[Opl]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

Actually they did by proxy with the UK which is why the UK now has a problem with Iran.

 

It is now time for the USA to get sanctioned and the rest of the world to ignore US sanctions.

Trump tweeted in March 2919 that oil should not exceed $ 70.

Trump's sanctions aim to "bring Iran's oil exports to zero". So logically Iran targets the major transit route for oil from Saudi Arabia.
Trump will pass his re-election before the US interest.
 

[PhonThong]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

Actually they did by proxy with the UK which is why the UK now has a problem with Iran.

 

It is now time for the USA to get sanctioned and the rest of the world to ignore US sanctions.

Since the world economy runs on USD. What sanctions are you thinking of imposing on the United States? 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, PhonThong said:

Since the world economy runs on USD. What sanctions are you thinking of imposing on the United States? 

Do you actually believe that because the USD is the foremost reserve currency, that fact somehow precludes other countries from imposing sanctions? Could you share with us your understanding of how that works? And could you drop a line to the Chinese about that?

[PhonThong]

16 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Do you actually believe that because the USD is the foremost reserve currency, that fact somehow precludes other countries from imposing sanctions? Could you share with us your understanding of how that works? And could you drop a line to the Chinese about that?

Even the Chinese have to have USD to trade on the oil market.

Just what sanctions do you suggest the world put on the U.S.? 

 Each country has the right to conduct business with whomever they wish, they also have the right to stop conducting business with other countries. When the US imposes sanctions on a country they are using their tremendous economic power to punish countries with whom they have problems. For example, when the US imposes sanctions on North Korea they are stopping North Korea’s ability to conduct business through US banks and businesses. When the US imposes sanctions on a country they also will stop doing business with any other country that does business with the sanctioned country. Again, every country has the right to do business with whomever they choose. However, the US has such substantial influence in the world economy that when they impose sanctions on a country it is in the best interest of other countries to honor those sanctions as well because if not they don’t they will lose access to American banking, businesses and trade. As well as access to other countries economies because they are not honoring the US sanctions.

  Be careful what you wish for.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Opl said:

Trump tweeted in March 2919 that oil should not exceed $ 70.

Trump's sanctions aim to "bring Iran's oil exports to zero". So logically Iran targets the major transit route for oil from Saudi Arabia.
Trump will pass his re-election before the US interest.
 

Doesn't Trump understand yet that the world does NOT revolve about him or the USA.

 

3 hours ago, PhonThong said:

Wrong post. Sorry.

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, PhonThong said:

Since the world economy runs on USD. What sanctions are you thinking of imposing on the United States? 

About 25% of everything that the USA exports.

 

The world is relying less and less on the USD especially as the USA doesn't have enough USD to pay off the rest of the world without printing more funny money.

 

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-national-debt/

 

1.  Japan (National Debt: ¥1,028 trillion ($9.087 trillion USD))
2.  Greece (National Debt: €332.6 billion ($379 billion US))
3.  Portugal (National Debt: €232 billion ($264 billion US))
4.  Italy (National Debt: €2.17 trillion ($2.48 trillion US))
5.  Bhutan (National Debt: $2.33 billion (USD))
6.  Cyprus (National Debt: €18.95 billion ($21.64 billion USD))
7.  Belgium (National Debt: €399.5 billion ($456.18 billion USD))
8.  United States of America (National Debt: $19.23 trillion (USD))
9.  Spain (National Debt: €1.09 trillion ($1.24 USD))
10. Singapore (National Debt: $350 billion ($254 billion US))

 

Of the world's major economic powers, the United States has the highest national debt at 108.02% of its GDP. China, the world's second-largest economy and home to the world's largest population (1,415,045,928), has a national debt ratio of just 51.21% of its GDP. 

[PhonThong]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

About 25% of everything that the USA exports.

 

The world is relying less and less on the USD especially as the USA doesn't have enough USD to pay off the rest of the world without printing more funny money.

 

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-national-debt/

 

1.  Japan (National Debt: ¥1,028 trillion ($9.087 trillion USD))
2.  Greece (National Debt: €332.6 billion ($379 billion US))
3.  Portugal (National Debt: €232 billion ($264 billion US))
4.  Italy (National Debt: €2.17 trillion ($2.48 trillion US))
5.  Bhutan (National Debt: $2.33 billion (USD))
6.  Cyprus (National Debt: €18.95 billion ($21.64 billion USD))
7.  Belgium (National Debt: €399.5 billion ($456.18 billion USD))
8.  United States of America (National Debt: $19.23 trillion (USD))
9.  Spain (National Debt: €1.09 trillion ($1.24 USD))
10. Singapore (National Debt: $350 billion ($254 billion US))

 

Of the world's major economic powers, the United States has the highest national debt at 108.02% of its GDP. China, the world's second-largest economy and home to the world's largest population (1,415,045,928), has a national debt ratio of just 51.21% of its GDP. 

What's your point?

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

What's your point?

That the USA is no longer all powerful and in control of the world, p1ssing off allies right left and centre, and while their currency still has some value if countries want to get their money back from the USA, the USA doesn't have the funds available to pay them back without QE or enough USD to do so.

[Opl]

Just now, billd766 said:

That the USA is no longer all powerful and in control of the world, p1ssing off allies right left and centre, and while their currency still has some value if countries want to get their money back from the USA, the USA doesn't have the funds available to pay them back without QE or enough USD to do so.

The main issue with economic sanctions comes from the abuse of extraterritorial application of American law to other nations, submitted through the use of US Currency in contracts etc...  

[mikebike]

17 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Another poster wrote, "admin seemingly so focused on not going it alone and practically begging for consensus then?"

 

I wrote, "The USA is not practically begging for a consensus." 

Yes, thanx for the re-cap... we have been following along, it wasn't all that tough.

[mikebike]

17 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Because it's in everyone's best interest to keep shipping lanes open. 

Please define "everyone"... somehow I don't think you are actually referring to "everyone"... I, for one, wouldn't mind the global wake-up call a closure would foster. Also would be fun to see MSB and Saudi establishment go apoplectic!!

[candide]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

That the USA is no longer all powerful and in control of the world, p1ssing off allies right left and centre, and while their currency still has some value if countries want to get their money back from the USA, the USA doesn't have the funds available to pay them back without QE or enough USD to do so.

It is however not simple as it would likely trigger one of the worst economic crisis, starting with the value of the USD sinking as well as the value of assets labelled in USD.

Reducing the role of the USD in the economic system will need time. The famous quote  “The dollar is our currency, but it’s your problem,” is expected to be relevant for some time.

To put this subject into perspective:

https://www.ipe.com/the-dollar-is-our-currency-but-its-your-problem/25599.fullarticle

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

Please define "everyone"... somehow I don't think you are actually referring to "everyone"... I, for one, wouldn't mind the global wake-up call a closure would foster. Also would be fun to see MSB and Saudi establishment go apoplectic!!

As in our allies (everyone) not necessarily you personally. 

[bristolboy]

28 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

As in our allies (everyone) not necessarily you personally. 

So far, those allies don't seem to agree. And in the age of Trump what allies does the USA have apart from S.A., UAE, and Israel?

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

So far, those allies don't seem to agree. And in the age of Trump what allies does the USA have apart from S.A., UAE, and Israel?

Try google.  USA Allies.  

[bristolboy]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

Try google.  USA Allies.  

I think you should be telling Trump to look that up. Or, come to think of it, those alleged allies.

[mikebike]

44 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Try google.  USA Allies.  

You think traditional allies are gonna rush to back the foreign policy vagaries of this admin when this admin has drawn back (indeed dumped on) from their needs? Why?

[Thainesss]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

You think traditional allies are gonna rush to back the foreign policy vagaries of this admin when this admin has drawn back (indeed dumped on) from their needs? Why?

 

Id like to see what you consider 'dumping' on their 'needs'. 

 

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

So far, those allies don't seem to agree. And in the age of Trump what allies does the USA have apart from S.A., UAE, and Israel?

 

All the same allies as before Trump became president, and while they may be being reluctant to join in right now, they certainly will if a few more ships get screwed with. That body of water is a massive shipping lane for most of the planets oil & gas and if you think they are gonna control it, and most of the world is just going to ignore it and let it happen because Donald Trump is president and said mean things to them... Id say thats pretty silly and will never happen. 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, mikebike said:

You think traditional allies are gonna rush to back the foreign policy vagaries of this admin when this admin has drawn back (indeed dumped on) from their needs? Why?

Yes.  They need the money and defense of USA.