TM28 - Notice to Travel to Another Province

[Kron]

Found this on Twitter

 

Now I know all the recent talk has been on TM30's but this poster is referring to the need to complete a TM28.

 

It says 'notify relevant officer every time he/she needs to travel'. So is this inferring you have to make notice twice? Basically telling the Immigration in the area you are leaving and then again in the new province you will be staying.

[ubonjoe]

That info is not exactly correct. Possibly something lost in the translation to English.

The largely unenforceable requirement is that f you stay in another province for more than 24 hours you have to report your presence to the local police.

From section 37 of the immigration act.,

"4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such
alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time
of arrival."

[jackdd]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

From section 37 of the immigration act.,

"4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such
alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time
of arrival."

And the most important part:

Quote

The provision of (3) and (4) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General.

So this reporting requirement doesn't apply to 99.999% of people here.

Edited July 22, 2019 by jackdd

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

And the most important part:

So this reporting requirement doesn't apply to 99.999% of people here.

But how would we know what was prescribed by the director general?

 

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

But how would we know what was prescribed by the director general?

 

We could ask immigration police, they should know if anything like this exists ????

I will call their hotline, let's see what they say

[tgeezer]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

But how would we know what was prescribed by the director general?

 

Whatever some senior policeman says is taken as being prescribed by The Director General. 

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

But how would we know what was prescribed by the director general?

We could ask immigration police, they should know if anything like this exists ????

I will call their hotline, let's see what they say

 

Called immigration hotline 1178:

Too specific question for the general hotline, as expected. Given another number from the immigration office in Chiang Mai (i'm in Chiang Mai), called there.

Told him what i'm asking about, he told me to wait. A few minutes later he is back at the phone (i assume he had to find a copy of the law).

Asking him if the director general ever issued anything regarding this passage in the law. He said this is too much to do on the phone. I told him he can just give me the index number of the official document issued by the director, i can look it up by myself, he doesn't have to read it to me.

He said something like: This are too many documents to do on the phone, if i want to know it i have to come to the immigration office.

(As if the director issued hundreds of conditions concerning this paragraph. Even if he did, he could have given me the index number of the last document, such documents always specify previous versions, so giving me the last would have been sufficient.)

Calling his bluff, assuming he just has no idea about this, i said ok i will come to see him at the immigration office. Asked where i can find him and what time is convenient. Then he was like: Oh, we are so busy here, have so much work to do. He can't tell me what time he is free. I should just go to the counter in the immigration office.

 

Then i tried the general government hotline 1111:

It did again seem to be a bit problematic to find the relevant law for them, but after a few minutes they managed to do this. Then i pointed her to the specific paragraph, which she found, and asked her regarding such an order. She put me a few minutes on hold, so might have indeed done some research (or maybe just got a coffee...). She said she can't tell me for sure (i assume she didn't find such an order, but this does of course not mean that it doesn't exist), and that i should contact immigration police regarding this, because they can tell me...

 

I didn't find such an order, looks like the woman at the 1111 hotline also didn't find one, so there is a good chance that no such conditions exist and everybody entering under section 34 is exempt from paragraph 3 and 4.

I might decide to visit the immigration office and disturb them (playing on their phones and processing TM30 forms) with my question

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

Surely this is something best left well enough alone. The more people start calling, asking about this and generally raising awareness of it, the greater the chances (though still remote, hopefully) that someone might decide to try and enforce it.

Edited July 22, 2019 by GroveHillWanderer

[Mapguy]

15 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I might decide to visit the immigration office and disturb them (playing on their phones and processing TM30 forms) with my question

YES!!  Go for it at the Chiang Mai Immigration Office!!  Share the experience you had with the hotline numbers with the supervising officer on duty.  And you might even try Region V Immigration HQ in Chiang Mai. Then re-post on CM Local Forum topic!  But go in the afternoon when there is generally some real slack time in the office.  Then check Immigration requirements for Malaysia, maybe. 

 

Naw --- really --- a straightforward presentation of the difficulties well-meaning expats experience with the general lack of information, misinformation or poorly-translated information needs to be expressed.  Constructively.  Especially pointing out it would help Immigration officers on the line tremendously.  Why is most fundamental information still posted, published or broadcast publicly in Thai, otherwise poorly in English?  Certainly correct information in English and Chinese, if not also Japanese, as one added language is needed.  The Immigration Department is beginning to catch on, but glacially.

[Mapguy]

22 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Surely this is something best left well enough alone. The more people start calling, asking about this and generally raising awareness of it, the greater the chances (though still remote, hopefully) that someone might decide to try and enforce it.

Well, yeah --- and the recent pronunciamento of the new Immigration honcho that TM30s are vital in tracking foreigners --- understood. However, set up an understanding of a win-win situation.  Security is important to the Thai Government, especially as constituted. However, also at the heart of Thai frustration, if I read it right, is the appalling foreign trash that has taken up residence in this country due to native cultural accomodation and who have bent (to be polite) residential and financial requirements of settling here.  If Immigration got one thing right in English, it is that motto:  "Good Guys; Bad Guys Out."  Now, unfortunately, some honest and basically innocent sorts who are "victims" of circumstance and insufficient financial planning really shouldn't be here are sweating --- and that is sad.

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Mapguy

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Whatever some senior policeman says is taken as being prescribed by The Director General. 

Valium most needed.

[rwill]

The problem with all of this TM30, 90 day reporting, etc.  is the ones they should be worried about, criminals, illegals, will not be doing it anyway.  It is just a bigger hassle for those trying to do things legally.  It does not fix any problem.  Of course it is another revenue grab source for the government so unlikely to ever change.

 

If they scrapped the TM 30, 90 day stuff and just made an easy to use phone app to report your location.  No registration for it.  Just enter your passport number and address of where you are staying.  I would be more than happy to spend the minute or so to do it each time I traveled.  

[WorriedNoodle]

I always chuck a TM28 in the post with my TM30 to CW. Only takes a second to knock one out on the printer. My experience is first time CW signed both TM28 & TM30 receipts, and since then they just ignore the TM28. I still keep sending them tho as it feels good to send so much paper work and the post office is just a 2 minute walk from where I stay.

[steve73]

On one of my early visits to the kingdom about 12-13 years ago, and long before anyone worried about the TM28/30's even though they were law even then), I hired a car and spent a couple of weeks doing a whistle-stop tour around the South, from BKK down the East coast, then back-up the west coast.

 

I never spent more than one night in any one location, although without checking the map to be sure, I may have spent more than one in the same province.  Most days we were up early, breakfast in a roadside shack (if it wasn't included in the "hotel"), keeping off the major highways as far as possible, and spending the afternoons parked up with a hammock on some remote beach.  Most days not deciding to stop for a hotel until we'd eaten, and often well after dark... We also spent one night in a tent on a deserted beach.

 

This type of "holiday" would not be possible if one had to report to the local Immigration office every day (although since I was never if one place for more than 24 hours this requirement would be moot even now).  Most of the small resorts/hotels/guest houses we used were unlikely to have registered their foreign guests (although it's likely they might be more strict now) and my TGF always used her ID anyway.  Often the provincial centers with the local Immigration Office would have required back-tracking the next day, to report a location after I'd already checked out, or much further/longer if over a weekend. 

 

I realise that the hotels are responsible for registering the TM30's, but IF the TM28 system were to be strictly enforced then it would be impossible to comply in this situation. 

 

[jackdd]

3 minutes ago, steve73 said:

This type of "holiday" would not be possible if one had to report to the local Immigration office every day

The TM28 is to be done at a police station, no need to go to an immigration office.

Every small town has a police station, and i think they are open 24 hours a day.

But most likely most of us don't need to submit a TM28 anyway.

[RocketDog]

8 hours ago, rwill said:

The problem with all of this TM30, 90 day reporting, etc.  is the ones they should be worried about, criminals, illegals, will not be doing it anyway.  It is just a bigger hassle for those trying to do things legally.  It does not fix any problem.  Of course it is another revenue grab source for the government so unlikely to ever change.

 

If they scrapped the TM 30, 90 day stuff and just made an easy to use phone app to report your location.  No registration for it.  Just enter your passport number and address of where you are staying.  I would be more than happy to spend the minute or so to do it each time I traveled.  

Hmmm. I'm never going to install a phone app created by immigration. Hells Bells, I keep my GPS disabled 99% of the time and don't use Google maps except under duress.

 

Think about that if you resent being tracked by TM30, etc. With a phone app they  can track you 7-24, as well as capture video and audio, all your contacts, on and on. No way I'm letting the Keystone Cops into my phone.

 

As for the comment about criminals not honoring the law, realize that all laws serve two purposes. One is to inform citizens of what constitutes illegal behavior, another is to allow prosecution of those not following the law. This is often stated as "ignorance of the law is no excuse." Making laws doesn't stop criminal behavior but provides a way to penalize (sometimes literally) those who break the law.

 

That said, I agree that there should be easier ways to inform immigration of our general location at reasonable intervals of time, if they really must do so, which is questionable.

[jackdd]

13 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Think about that if you resent being tracked by TM30, etc. With a phone app they  can track you 7-24, as well as capture video and audio, all your contacts, on and on. No way I'm letting the Keystone Cops into my phone.

I hope you didn't register your sim card with your own passport, if you did they can track you 24/7 already

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

I hope you didn't register your sim card with your own passport, if you did they can track you 24/7 already

I hear you Jack and hadn't thought about that. Actually it was bought by a Thai son of my friend when I first landed in Bangkok several years ago. I guess I was lucky.

 

I typically don't use the mobile network except for putting some time on the card when I travel around Thailand every few months.

 

99% if my net traffic is thru my home router which connects to the web thru a VPN installed directly in the router, or at Hotspots such as restaurants etc. In that case I use the same VPN, EXPRESS VPN, installed on my phone itself. I regularly change the country of the server I connect the VPN to, but most often somewhere in USA. So any body trying to track me would think I'm a globetrotter extraordinaire. I never connect the a Thailand server for a number of reasons, with the blocking of porno sites being foremost.  ????

 

My mobile network is turned off most of the time even when I have some credit on it. I found out that as long as it's on the credit leaks away even if I never use the network.

 

So I thank you for the information, but still maintain that installing an app gives the app almost total control of the phone resources, regardless of the permissions you 'allow ' it.

 

Thanks for pushing my intrinsic paranoia one step closer to the edge!  ????

[samtam]

25 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I hear you Jack and hadn't thought about that. Actually it was bought by a Thai son of my friend when I first landed in Bangkok several years ago. I guess I was lucky.

 

I typically don't use the mobile network except for putting some time on the card when I travel around Thailand every few months.

 

99% if my net traffic is thru my home router which connects to the web thru a VPN installed directly in the router, or at Hotspots such as restaurants etc. In that case I use the same VPN, EXPRESS VPN, installed on my phone itself. I regularly change the country of the server I connect the VPN to, but most often somewhere in USA. So any body trying to track me would think I'm a globetrotter extraordinaire. I never connect the a Thailand server for a number of reasons, with the blocking of porno sites being foremost.  ????

 

My mobile network is turned off most of the time even when I have some credit on it. I found out that as long as it's on the credit leaks away even if I never use the network.

 

So I thank you for the information, but still maintain that installing an app gives the app almost total control of the phone resources, regardless of the permissions you 'allow ' it.

 

Thanks for pushing my intrinsic paranoia one step closer to the edge!  ????

Is the name Bond, James Bond?

[RocketDog]

5 minutes ago, samtam said:

Is the name Bond, James Bond?

Not exactly but I do like my martinis shaken, not stirred.