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Fighting for justice: Dutch engineer with cancer interviewed by Thai media

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17 minutes ago, Rocket Hawks said:

My god, you are complaining about 300 baht every 3 months????? That’s an insane deal for treating prostate cancer. He should be so lucky. Try $30k usd per treatment in the US.

 

Wake up folks, if you are not a Thai citizen, you should not be able to pay the same low rates that Thais do. You are lucky enough that they let you live here. 

 

Some people are so cheap. It’s embarrassing. No wonder the Thai gov wants to kick us out 

 

If everyone had this attitude Thai hospitals would soon end up as bad as those in the US. 

Do you really think he is getting $30k of treatment for 300 Baht?

 

 

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Of course it may backfire and the hospital starts charging Thais the same inflated price as foreigners.

 

That would go down well.

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10 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Medical care is a human right- until all countries realise this- places like the US and Thailand will continue to treat people differently.  Thailand could easily allow long stay foreigners to purchase into the Thai Medical System via Thai Social Security then there would be no ability by the Hospitals to try and capitalize on such inequality.

 

No Hospital should ever be allowed to profit off the illness of another nor should any  Pharmasecutical Company.  Also, throw in Insurance which exists only to profit from a person's misery.

I have sampled both government and private hospitals in Thailand. The government one gave me a hip replacement that was not needed so effectively crippled me. The private hospital was much better but way more expensive. So which one was it my right to have?

If there is no profit, why would anyone do it. Would you become a doctor and only work for food and accommodation?

If you invented a new drug that cost a million pounds to develop with no certainty that it would work at all, would you be happy just to get your money back? 

 

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I don’t think there is an easy fix to the duel pricing. It’s not fair to charge an Expat with an income of 65000 baht more. But one with an income of 200000 is different 

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19 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

There is such a thing as Non Profit- meaning one can charge for the expense of running the hospital and the staff are paid reasonable wages.  The Hospital and or provider  files their taxes as a non profit institution.

 

People who go into medicine take an Oath to do no harm and that includes not pricing the average person out of the market for healthcare.  There are way too many involved in medicine that see it as a get rich scheme and do not really care about the ill.

 

As far as drug companies- most receive grants from the Government for research and development or  are completely funded by a Government Pharmaceutical Organization.

The problem is that Big Pharma not only wanbts the grants but wants to chage extortionmate prices for live saving medicines.

 

Thro in the fact that there is an unholy alliance bewteen Big Pharma; For Profit Hospitals and Insurance and the only loser is the patient.

 

 

 

Medical care is a basic human right.  Too many people have been brainwashed by the For Profit medical industryinto believing that it is a privledge.  It is not- it is a right= All people have the right to live.

 

Until Governments Worldwide stop the insanity of allowing for profit medicine and the loose regulation of Big Pharma patients will die from lack of funds and proper treatment.  xountries like the UK; Japan; and most of the EU have had non profit and universal healthcare for decades.  It works

 

 

It is the doctor that takes the oath and not the hospital and it is the hospital that has set the fees and not the doctor. There is a big difference between the two. Private hospitals are a business the same as any other business which can set their own fees but the government hospitals are a different thing and the fees are set by the government, but you will always find a difference in the fees for locals and tourists even at government hospitals because those hospitals are subsidized by the government for the local people. Australia is the same, it has one set of fees for locals and another set of fees for the tourists because the locals pay into the medicare scheme through their taxes and the tourist do not.

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5 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

In another thread about hospital pricing everyone is complaining about them making a profit off the most vulnerable people in their worst situation.

 

Now someone stands up against being unlawfully ripped off and again its not good.

 

What do you want? Just complaining in every situation and never doing anything besides complaining?

And in several other threads hospitals are reported to be stuck with patients who run up large bills, they don't have insurance and they don't know anyone, including family, who is willing to help out.

 

Then the TV champions of justice suggest the patient do a runner. And as I've said before, those of us who actually pay our bills end up paying more to make up for the losses created by those who can't be bothered with insurance and whose family and friends apparently know them too well to offer help.

 

One guy in several threads has announced that he want his independence so he doesn't want to buy insurance. Of course if this independent hero ever gets seriously ill or has an accident and is unable to pay the hospital, that's OK because that person is bravely defending his independence.

 

The sense of exceptionalism and entitlement among the cabal of justice seeking farangs who have nothing in common other than their farangness isn't based on a thirst for justice. 

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millions of thais have less money than falang. double pricing supports the poor. every thai accepts this. that guy should be more careful. if he continues to make problems they just cancel his visa and deport him. they must not give any reason.

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I do support what he is doing in as much as it should remind the rest of us to be careful. As far as the Thai attitude towards the foreigner is concerned I don't think it will make any difference.

Do hospitals display their charges?

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28 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

t is the doctor that takes the oath and not the hospital and it is the hospital that has set the fees and not the doctor. There is a big difference between the two. Private hospitals are a business the same as any other business which can set their own fees but the government hospitals are a different thing and the fees are set by the government, but you will always find a difference in the fees for locals and tourists even at government hospitals because those hospitals are subsidized by the government for the local people. Australia is the same, it has one set of fees for locals and another set of fees for the tourists because the locals pay into the medicare scheme through their taxes and the tourist do not.

Doctors take the Oath but Medical institutions are providing a place for doctors to practice and should be subject to the Oath.

 

HOwever, the solution is simple- Tax For profit Hospitals at the highest rate possible and exempt Non Profit Hospitals.

 

The solution in Thailand is to allow anyone with a one year Visa/Extension to  pay into the Thai Social Security Scheme.  In Austrlia, I am certain that long stay individuals have residence status which allows them into Aussie Hospitals with no double pricing.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Doctors take the Oath but Medical institutions are providing a place for doctors to practice and should be subject to the Oath.

 

HOwever, the solution is simple- Tax For profit Hospitals at the highest rate possible and exempt Non Profit Hospitals.

 

The solution in Thailand is to allow anyone with a one year Visa/Extension to  pay into the Thai Social Security Scheme.  In Austrlia, I am certain that long stay individuals have residence status which allows them into Aussie Hospitals with no double pricing.

 

 

You are wrong because doctors have their own clinics and do not have to attend hospitals. The private hospitals are taxed the same as all the other businesses. There is a big thing that you are forgetting and that is the private hospital must find the money and pay for all the equipement that it uses and the government hospitals equipement is paid for by the government. If you want the private hospitals to close because they are not allowed to make money to be able to purchase the new equipement then the whole medical treatment system will collapse because if you close the private hospitals the government will not have enough money to build and operate the new hospitals that would be needed to have sufficient hospitals for the public to use.

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10 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

ou are wrong because doctors have their own clinics and do not have to attend hospitals. The private hospitals are taxed the same as all the other businesses. There is a big thing that you are forgetting and that is the private hospital must find the money and pay for all the equipement that it uses and the government hospitals equipement is paid for by the government. If you want the private hospitals to close because they are not allowed to make money to be able to purchase the new equipement then the whole medical treatment system will collapse because if you close the private hospitals the government will not have enough money to build and operate the new hospitals that would be needed to have sufficient hospitals for the public to use.

That's what the private hospitals want you to believe- the real truth is that  not for profit hospitals will operate on  a pricing level way below private hospitals and  to compete they will have to lower their prices  .

 

As far as equipment goes- that is also overpriced and with a not for profit system that equipment  is also lower.

 

The bottom line is that  if the only real purchaser is not for profit hospitals and  private hospitals that compete- the rrest of the  industry to include meds; equiptment and private insurance will have to lower their prices simply because no one will buy at the current levels. They either go lower or go out of business.

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4 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

That's what the private hospitals want you to believe- the real truth is that  not for profit hospitals will operate on  a pricing level way below private hospitals and  to compete they will have to lower their prices  .

 

As far as equipment goes- that is also overpriced and with a not for profit system that equipment  is also lower.

 

The bottom line is that  if the only real purchaser is not for profit hospitals and  private hospitals that compete- the rrest of the  industry to include meds; equiptment and private insurance will have to lower their prices simply because no one will buy at the current levels. They either go lower or go out of business.

They go out of business then there is no equipement for any of the hospitals including the government hospitals, so it ends up a bloody big mess with many people not being able to access hospitals. The equipement manufacturers charge a higher price for the equipement so that they can supply the government hospitals at a below cost price because it is the price that the private hospitals pay subsidizes the price of the equipement for the government hospitals plus they would not be able to research and design new and better equipement for all the hospitals. This is not as simple as you make it out to be. As for the private health insurance, well that is a different thing, but they are an insurance company and all insurance companies are only interested in saving money for themselves.

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1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

That's what the private hospitals want you to believe- the real truth is that  not for profit hospitals will operate on  a pricing level way below private hospitals and  to compete they will have to lower their prices  .

 

As far as equipment goes- that is also overpriced and with a not for profit system that equipment  is also lower.

 

The bottom line is that  if the only real purchaser is not for profit hospitals and  private hospitals that compete- the rrest of the  industry to include meds; equiptment and private insurance will have to lower their prices simply because no one will buy at the current levels. They either go lower or go out of business.

Why would anyone build a hospital if it could never make a profit? 

Why would any company design and manufacture medical equipment if they cannot make a profit?

People are greedy, money is a great incentive to do things. Telling people they get the same no matter how hard they work will just lead to lower productivity and standards.

I got a hip replacement at a bargain price but it was not needed. Just because health care is cheap does not mean it is adequate. Driving away the best people into other industries will just drive down standards. 

"They either go lower or go out of business." Or they move into another profitable business leaving healthcare to those that can cut the most corners and risk the consequences.

Competition is the best way to get better value for money. If due to this publicly the hospital looses many patients to another local hospital, it will be forced to improve. Where as if he did not make a fuss or just accepted the refund it would be encouraged to over charge even more.

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7 hours ago, chang1 said:

Being English I can understand that just getting a refund is not enough. He is trying to stop this happening to others in his position which we should all be thankful for. 300 Baht is probably a large sum to a goat herder. Even if the amount is trivial he is also fighting for his self respect. It surprises me how many people retire in Thailand and take on the Thais attitude about not caring or doing anything about being ripped off. To me it  is a very selfish attitude - "why should I fight for someone else, 300  Baht is nothing to me?". Maybe if more people did some whinging and then actually followed through with actions, things would improve, especially for those less fortunate.

Good luck to him, he is more of a man than all those saying why bother.

Bravo - well said!

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