Rethinking my stay here

[metisdead]

A troll post trolling about brothels/prostitution has been removed. 

[pookondee]

After reading these pages

im now seeing dozens of adds about 

"Thai visa- no 800k in bank needed"

 

Im no investigational expert, but would it not be easy enough for police to catch the bad guys when they are blatantly advertising in plain sight?

 

 

  

[UKresonant]

22 minutes ago, pookondee said:

After reading these pages

im now seeing dozens of adds about 

"Thai visa- no 800k in bank needed"

 

Im no investigational expert, but would it not be easy enough for police to catch the bad guys when they are blatantly advertising in plain sight?

 

 

  

As someone else suggested the other day, these services appear to be blessed at present. What happens in a few years when the wind changes, and they are no longer blessed...and your featured in their customer list. Very apprehensive about that avenue.

 

But for someone who has no long term view on being here, they seem a very useful service, to get a year or two sorted!

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, pookondee said:

Im no investigational expert, but would it not be easy enough for police to catch the bad guys when they are blatantly advertising in plain sight?

Sure. And that it doesn't happen tells you everything you need to know.

[Tagaa]

On 7/22/2019 at 8:35 PM, FaFaHead said:

 Breaking the lease, etc., is going to be a hassle. Damn Thailand!

The absolute last determining factor that I would use to decide whether to stay or go would be time remaining on a lease. If the wife is back in the US & you have had it here, pack up your valuables and get on the big silver bird. Multiple flights leave every day.

 

If you like Thailand, then move to a different province where immigration is easier to deal with. I dealt with Jomtien Imm. for 5 years and everything was smooth as silk. Never a problem. 90 day reports were in and out in 5 minutes or less. Visa extensions took about 30 to 40 minutes, most of it waiting time for my number to be called, and then a 5 minute return trip in the afternoon to pick up the passport. I walked into the office at 11:15, out by 11:45 or so, went to have lunch & return at 1:30 or so to pickup the passport. As close to painless as any dealing I have ever had with any gubbmit office.

 

By the way, Chaing Mai is a miserable place. Just the smoke in February and March was enough for me to decide that was a city I didn't want to live in. I'd leave Chaing Mai just because it's Chaing Mai.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Tagaa

[Tanoshi]

8 hours ago, timendres said:

They did force it upon every embassy. The difference being that the other embassies are fully willing to stand behind the income letter as being a verified income.

That's incorrect.

The Embassies cannot, did not and still don't verify incomes.

After the US, UK, and Australia ceased the service, had TI remained insistent that Embassies verify incomes then every Embassy would have followed ceasing the service.

Other Embassies continue because TI then amended their orders to accepting 'certified' Embassy Income letters, after the biggest 3 Embassies ceased the service.

The remaining Embassies only continue to 'certify' witnessing documents, or your signature, without any authentication of proof.

[simon43]

What happens in a few years when the wind changes, and they are no longer blessed...and your featured in their customer list. 

 

Exactly.  This 'scam' is very similar to the visa scam some years ago where your passport was sent out of Thailand to get a fake visa stamp while you stayed at home in Thailand.  That fake visa stamp (by 'fake' I mean obtained under false pretences), is exactly the same as to what is happening now.  

 

When that scam was discovered, many foreigners were caught and I believe prosecuted for having a fake visa stamp.  I don't recall the punishment, but in the current environment, It wouldn't surprise me to see foreigners deported for these offences.

 

 

Mark my words - if you are using agent services to obtain your retirement/marriage extension because you don't have the funds, your actions could come back and bite you very hard in the future.  My advice is that it is better to sort out alternative plans for your future residence and exit Thailand voluntarily, rather than being booted out when your partaking in this scam is discovered.

 

[AdamTheFarang]

Visas were so much easier a few years ago. Clearly the Thai government has tightened up. You should be able to get reliable information by calling your local office. If not on here. Hey, at least if you have the O and then the retirement visa you are good for a while. I had heard that they have changed the time you need to keep the 800,000Baht in the bank. I left Thailand for many reasons, visas being one of them and the fact after 7 years I still needed, as everyone on a retirement did/does have to report every 90 days. At least it was online, but even if I married citizenship is extremely difficult to get. Then you have to report if you stay in another place for a few days, it's like a Police state. I felt unwanted and was fed up of dual pricing. Thailand was also cheap, now with the Thai Baht so high it is expensive. There are plenty of better places to live where citizenship is available and a more welcoming environment. 

[pookondee]

On 7/25/2019 at 9:21 AM, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Exactly.  This 'scam' is very similar to the visa scam some years ago where your passport was sent out of Thailand to get a fake visa stamp while you stayed at home in Thailand.  That fake visa stamp (by 'fake' I mean obtained under false pretences), is exactly the same as to what is happening now.  

 

When that scam was discovered, many foreigners were caught and I believe prosecuted for having a fake visa stamp.  I don't recall the punishment, but in the current environment, It wouldn't surprise me to see foreigners deported for these offences.

 

 

Mark my words - if you are using agent services to obtain your retirement/marriage extension because you don't have the funds, your actions could come back and bite you very hard in the future.  My advice is that it is better to sort out alternative plans for your future residence and exit Thailand voluntarily, rather than being booted out when your partaking in this scam is discovered.

 

 I agree its not right, but i cant see how you came to the conclusion that both are more or less the same scam?

 

The older "scam" did in fact break several laws, and the stamps and referance numbers on them were possibly completely faked, so it was always a risk that IMMs would later find that the entries did not match up on their IMMs data base.

 

The agents, AFAIK, get a legit stamp from a legit office, albeit at an undisclosed price.

From what people have said here, the stamp the agents get you is identical to what Joe Blo who applies in person gets.

 

There is no note or referance in the passport (for that entry) to say it was obtained through an agent, so i dont see how there is any risk involved for the punter??

 

[SammyJ]

On 7/22/2019 at 9:17 PM, elliss said:

800K , in the bank , good farlang , welcome.

  However that said the amount could increase tommo..

    Mounthly income nah , too much work for immi.

    The writing is on the wall..

 

 

 

the 800k in the bank is so ridiculous--it's there to supposedly demonstrate one has the means to support themselves, but then for five months, an applicant can't touch the money and after that access only HALF of the money that is needed to pay one's living expenses.

 

as an earlier poster said, the money that retirees and other expats, here legally and with correct visas, poor into the local economies is significant.  Not only for somewhere like Chiang Mai but for many of the more rural areas that expats have chosen to live with their Thai gf/wife/families, their spending can have a very positive impact on a smaller local village.

 

Reform is needed on the volunteer visa stuff--i know many fellow expats--retirees that have great skills--former English teachers, nurses, etc that are more than willing to give of their time and talent, but don't want to give up their retirement visa or endanger being deported if they tried volunteering without the correct visa--so many talented individuals' talents going to waste!

[bkkcanuck8]

5 hours ago, SammyJ said:

the 800k in the bank is so ridiculous--it's there to supposedly demonstrate one has the means to support themselves, but then for five months, an applicant can't touch the money and after that access only HALF of the money that is needed to pay one's living expenses.

 

as an earlier poster said, the money that retirees and other expats, here legally and with correct visas, poor into the local economies is significant.  Not only for somewhere like Chiang Mai but for many of the more rural areas that expats have chosen to live with their Thai gf/wife/families, their spending can have a very positive impact on a smaller local village.

 

Reform is needed on the volunteer visa stuff--i know many fellow expats--retirees that have great skills--former English teachers, nurses, etc that are more than willing to give of their time and talent, but don't want to give up their retirement visa or endanger being deported if they tried volunteering without the correct visa--so many talented individuals' talents going to waste!

It is likely a ham-handed response to the rampant fraudulent retirement visas by those that don't qualify, and a version of self-insurance (minimum 400,000) to protect Thailand from delinquent retirees who can not pay for medical care when it becomes an issue.  Is there a better way?  Probably.  But this is the way they are attempting to solve the problem at this point.   A lot of people were qualifying by having agents drop money into an account, getting documents printed and then getting the money back (with inside help at the bank).  When you have to have the money in for 5 months, the cost of borrowing that money is going to make the cost of such services prohibitive (if they don't find other illegal ways to offset the regulations).   

 

How would I handle it, create government 'account' type (similar to tax sheltered accounts in the west), where you have a 'retirement' bank account (coded that way at the bank - with monthly submissions to the government on balance and activity).  You are required to qualify by having an average foreign transfer into the account of 65,000 baht, of a deposit of 800,000 with a declining balance over 12 months of balance / 12 per month...  If your account becomes delinquent in the first 12 months, your visa is void.  If your account becomes delinquent after that you are given one warning to bring it back into shape. 

 

For the health issue, the government should require/offer the same public health coverage at a 'foreign unsubsidized rate'.  Every retiree expat would be required to pay the unsubsidized rate.  If you wanted better coverage, you could in addition get private health insurance (but the basic would still be required).  The monthly premium would change to reflect the cost health to foreigners.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat, but in the end the cat will have to be skinned one way or another.

[Leaver]

On 7/25/2019 at 12:21 PM, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Exactly.  This 'scam' is very similar to the visa scam some years ago where your passport was sent out of Thailand to get a fake visa stamp while you stayed at home in Thailand.  That fake visa stamp (by 'fake' I mean obtained under false pretences), is exactly the same as to what is happening now.  

 

When that scam was discovered, many foreigners were caught and I believe prosecuted for having a fake visa stamp.  I don't recall the punishment, but in the current environment, It wouldn't surprise me to see foreigners deported for these offences.

 

 

Mark my words - if you are using agent services to obtain your retirement/marriage extension because you don't have the funds, your actions could come back and bite you very hard in the future.  My advice is that it is better to sort out alternative plans for your future residence and exit Thailand voluntarily, rather than being booted out when your partaking in this scam is discovered.

 

I disagree.

 

The use of visa agent appears to be state sanctioned, as another revenue source for corrupt Government officials.

 

If they wanted it stopped, it could be stopped overnight, but under the new laws, agents have proliferated, and as mentioned, operate in plain sight. 

 

It appears the system was designed this way. 

[Leaver]

On 7/25/2019 at 12:17 PM, Tanoshi said:

Other Embassies continue because TI then amended their orders to accepting 'certified' Embassy Income letters,

And when they "amend their orders" again in the future to accept NO embassy letters from anyone, and in my opinion, that day is coming, then those that have not needed to concern themselves with the new laws will suddenly be very concerned about their future here, like so many expats from the big three nationalities / embassies. 

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

And when they "amend their orders" again in the future to accept NO embassy letters from anyone, and in my opinion, that day is coming, then those that have not needed to concern themselves with the new laws will suddenly be very concerned about their future here, like so many expats from the big three nationalities / embassies. 

There's already been a significant increase in married expats scrambling to Savannakhet to get the Non Imm O ME, with no financial proof required.

If and when the new E-Visa application system hits Lao, then that will be another route cut.

 

Slow but sure, their squeezing out those without the required financials.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

There's already been a significant increase in married expats scrambling to Savannakhet to get the Non Imm O ME, with no financial proof required

Not true,

Most of the crowds trucked in by the vans are non-white, non-western.

Edited July 30, 2019 by BritManToo

[Leaver]

I'm quite sure they are happy with the revenue raised for Thai banks from the big three embassies no long issuing income letters. 

 

I see no reason why they would continue to give all other embassies "a free pass" on this matter.

 

Whilst an embassy may issue a letter, that does not mean Thai immigration has to accept it, and that's what I can see happening in the future.

 

Basically, embassy income letters will become worthless.  The Thai's will want the cold hard cash into their banking system, thus, their economic, not a letter from an embassy.   

[elviajero]

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

34 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

There's already been a significant increase in married expats scrambling to Savannakhet to get the Non Imm O ME, with no financial proof required

Not true,

Most of the crowds trucked in by the vans are non-white, non-western.

There will undoubtedly be an increase due to the recent embassy letter changes. Even if it's gone from 1 a week to 2 a week a doubling of applicants is a significant increase.

[fhickson]

worrisome that this important regulation is not in writing somewhere.
possible to print it out and submit with application?

[fhickson]

On 7/22/2019 at 6:54 AM, FaFaHead said:

What sucks, is she is in the states for the school break as her 88 year old father fell and fractured his back and since her return has had a couple of minor strokes, so he’s in decline and Laura won’t be back anytime soon to resume the school year on the 14th. Things are really in flux right now. 

that's really common when parents get older. they call on siblings as they become more frail, siblings return to live closer for support, end up taking care of finances and property issues for inheritance, get tied down and older, cycle repeats...

[SammyJ]

On 7/30/2019 at 4:55 PM, bkkcanuck8 said:

It is likely a ham-handed response to the rampant fraudulent retirement visas by those that don't qualify, and a version of self-insurance (minimum 400,000) to protect Thailand from delinquent retirees who can not pay for medical care when it becomes an issue.  Is there a better way?  Probably.  But this is the way they are attempting to solve the problem at this point.   A lot of people were qualifying by having agents drop money into an account, getting documents printed and then getting the money back (with inside help at the bank).  When you have to have the money in for 5 months, the cost of borrowing that money is going to make the cost of such services prohibitive (if they don't find other illegal ways to offset the regulations).   

 

How would I handle it, create government 'account' type (similar to tax sheltered accounts in the west), where you have a 'retirement' bank account (coded that way at the bank - with monthly submissions to the government on balance and activity).  You are required to qualify by having an average foreign transfer into the account of 65,000 baht, of a deposit of 800,000 with a declining balance over 12 months of balance / 12 per month...  If your account becomes delinquent in the first 12 months, your visa is void.  If your account becomes delinquent after that you are given one warning to bring it back into shape. 

 

For the health issue, the government should require/offer the same public health coverage at a 'foreign unsubsidized rate'.  Every retiree expat would be required to pay the unsubsidized rate.  If you wanted better coverage, you could in addition get private health insurance (but the basic would still be required).  The monthly premium would change to reflect the cost health to foreigners.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat, but in the end the cat will have to be skinned one way or another.

i understand and agree with your comments--yes, their efforts were intended to catch up those abusing the system and using agents to deposit the money, but, i think we agree there are better ways to do so without hurting legitimate expats or making their funds unavailable for them to use.  For some expats, they can qualify but then having their funds tied up so long or the 400,000 unavailable to use for the entire year is just to damaging to their living situation.  These expats would likely spend that money into the Thai economy, so it just doesn't make sense--the whole volunteer visa thing as well.

 

I have heard expats talk about going to Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, or Myanmar--maybe on another post can have more discussion about the pros and cons of living in one of those countires--I do realize that all is not wonderful there as well, but, is definitely something to consider.

[bhakta]

On 7/22/2019 at 8:35 PM, FaFaHead said:

Back home to the states. I’m in a 3 year lease and that’s a consideration. I live in a great neighborhood and have a nice house here in Doi Saket. This Immigration stuff sucks. As I scooped up my papers I told the Thai officer that they didn’t want Falangs and this Immigration attitude was bullshit and walked out. The wife and I spend some pretty good BHt every month here. Really pisses me off.  Coming here was a mistake I think. Breaking the lease, etc., is going to be a hassle. Damn Thailand!

Some  one up there in Chiang Mai is seeking "tea money".  

You should not have to deal with this type of stuff. I am in Samut Prakarn, and in 33 years have never had an issue if my paperwork was in order. In the past I just presented the certificate from the US Embassy proving income; this year I will see what happens as the embassy is not assuming the certificates. I have my letter from Social Security proving my income, and I hope that is sufficient.

[bkkcanuck8]

3 hours ago, bhakta said:

Some  one up there in Chiang Mai is seeking "tea money".  

You should not have to deal with this type of stuff. I am in Samut Prakarn, and in 33 years have never had an issue if my paperwork was in order. In the past I just presented the certificate from the US Embassy proving income; this year I will see what happens as the embassy is not assuming the certificates. I have my letter from Social Security proving my income, and I hope that is sufficient.

Samut Prakan Immigration is great (IMHO), they have been more than helpful.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, bhakta said:

I have my letter from Social Security proving my income, and I hope that is sufficient.

That will not be enough now. You have to show transfers of your income from abroad going into a Thai bank account. 

See this police order: Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income 

[Leaver]

8 hours ago, SammyJ said:

There are many ways to skin a cat, but in the end the cat will have to be skinned one way or another.

Or, the cat moves to a country where no one wants to skin it.  ????

[DrJack54]

Talk about thread going off rail. This OP in another thread indicated already decided going back USA.

Gave some pretty full on parting words re his opinion Thailand is cess pool. Goodbye, enjoy Texas.