Rethinking my stay here

[Nowisee]

Several years here using the OA extension certainly has seen it's challenges in CM.  Some very long days and every time a new extension and usually good conversations with new people.
The new location is remarkably better, in and out within an hour.

I've witnessed too many people going to immigration unprepared and being totally puzzled and unclear what they need to do after being told to come back another day and try again.  

 

Due to the consulate not giving affidavit, my next extension will most likely be using the 800k.

This will be a different method for me.

I'll have to research how the letter and bankbook procedure works and which accounts are the best for me and which ones IO will/will not accept.

 

This forum with UJ and a few others as well as TD in the FB group is endlessly helpful and I thank them for all their help over the years.

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

50 minutes ago, CM Dad said:

Immigration does not issue Non O visas. 

Yes they will issue a non immigrant visa (category O) as has been stated several times already in this topic.

See: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

[JDGRUEN]

Dear FaFaHead ... you have other options.  But first an option you don't have.  

First a Non Imm O Visa is issued at some Immigration Offices - namely Changwatana in Bkk. They put out a package that in 60 day allows you to get the One Year Extension of Stay. This is done in Krabi Province and at other Immigration offices. But you must apply in the jurisdiction where you live - so that's out.

 

Best option and the one you could have or should have taken in the first place.  Get a Non Imm O-A Multi-Entry Visa - but that must be done in your home country.  Notice the "A" - it is not an O Visa - it is better.

Your money in the Bank (800K baht equivalent) would be in a home country bank in your currency - seasoned for 3 months.

 Or the 65K Baht monthly income equivalent for 12 months would be documented by your home country bank records and pension records

 

Go online - find the Thai Embassy / Consulate website in your home country.  Look up their list of requirements... correspond by email with them for clarification. You will have to get a medical certification - nothing to it. Same with a police background check - fairly simple.

 

Yes, you do have to go back home for a bit but it is very possible you will get the O-A Visa. Advantage The O-A actually provides 2 years of stay (how that works I can explain to you later). You only do 90 day reports - no showing of finances to Immigration in Thailand, as a multi-entry visa - no Reentry Permits to buy in the first year. 

 

Thousands of Expats are doing this to get away from the arbitrary and capricious Thai I/Os 

Just think - two years with no interaction with Thai Immigration except 90 day reports and an occasional TM.30

[Suradit69]

22 hours ago, FaFaHead said:

Went to Immigration today with two packets with EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO GET NON Immigrant O visa.

You can't get a non-imm O visa, you get a 90 day permission to stay based on a theoretical visa entry.

 

21 hours ago, fishtank said:

Yes you can get a Non Imm Visa at Immigration with an income of 65k a month.

Providing it is part of the process to apply for a 12 month extension.

 

Is your Wife Thai?

Technically you end up with a non-imm O entry ... in other words you get a 90 day permission to stay because you need a non-imm O entry to apply for the extension.

 

You don't walk out of the immigration office with a usable visa. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Suradit69

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

First a Non Imm O Visa is issued at some Immigration Offices - namely Changwatana in Bkk.

It can be done at any immigration offices now that changed a couple of years ago.

[lkv]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It can be done at any immigration offices now that changed a couple of years ago.

Well, the OP of this thread can't do it at Chiang Mai, can he?

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, lkv said:

Well, the OP of this thread can't do it at Chiang Mai, can he?

Yes he can.

I think he just needs to sort out his proof of his income coming from abroad.

[lkv]

Jesus 7 pages already. 

 

@FaFaHead you said you had a pile of documentation that an agent had a prior look on.

 

Did it include what @ubonjoe is suggesting?

 

I want to get to the bottom of this.

[FaFaHead]

19 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

Whilst I understand your frustration it may not have been a good idea to air your thoughts to the immigration officer, I have seen quite a few people tossed out of Jomtien immigration office and told never to return, where would that leave you ?? 

 

Many on here, myself included, have gone down the 800,000 Baht route only to be thwarted by an obnoxious IO wanting you to go down the agent route so that they can up their monthly salary, we all get sick of their antics trust me, except for the chosen few that for some unknown reason have never ever had a problem at immigration & I can assure that they will be along soon enough to tell us all about it.

I didn’t lose my cool...but I said what I said to him almost under my breath and he giggled as I walked away! At this juncture, I am not too concerned with what they think of me, anymore than they are worried about what I think of them. They are masters of screwing with people, especially Falangs, with a smile on their faces. Screw threm, whether I need them or not. I am a mature, respectful, educated man that has a lifetime of dealing with people experiences over the past 67 years. These clowns test my patience like no other. To hell with them. 

[FaFaHead]

17 hours ago, Traubert said:

I would suggest that even if you dont go the agent route, if you arent experienced it may be a good idea to drop a few baht an agents way just to check the paperwork before you make the application.

 

I know there's a whole legion of well meaning people here, and Ubon Joe is irreproachable but it's different on the spot.

 

Dont lose the rag though. You still stand out like a fish in a tree in Thailand. You won't be forgotten.

I had an agent acquaintance put the duplicate packages together for me with everything she said I would need, to no avail. That’s why I was so pissed off...

[FaFaHead]

11 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Did you really do this? Do you expect that will help you in the future? 

 

My guess would be that it is better to be polite to authorities and find a way to work things out together. If you meet the qualifications for a visa you should not have a problem.

 

I have made mistakes but immigration has always been polite and helpful to me as I was of them. 

 

But, good choice on Doi Saket - nice area.

 

10 hours ago, UKresonant said:

Yes, never had a problem with anything in Thailand so far (touch wood). Don't get angry, much better to keep totally calm.

 

If you wished to express you frustration, perhaps you could have asked them; will there be trained staff available once you get your non-O to carry out the extension by income method, or do they have a contact number in Bangkok....? Honest question to resolve a perceived deficiency, in the public servants you are trying to deal with.

Not having the non-O was kinda your weaknessin the situation perhaps. 

I really don’t care to be honest with you. I am the nicest, most respectful person that has limits. At this juncture, to hell with what they think of me...

[Jingthing]

I have lived here for over 10 years and I have never experienced the problems I read about here on a regular basis. When my retirement visa comes up for it's yearly renewal I go to my Immigration office at Singburi and ask them all the right questions such as any changes, any new forms, any new information required since last year etc. Immigration then give me the correct forms to complete and give me the list of documents that I also need to supply. I go away and do what is required and return when the date comes. I have never had a problem in the last 10 years.
Also I have asked them previously to advise me on what are the best options for me and they have always supplied the correct information. So the message from me in 'Communicate, ask in a friendly manner and let them advise you' My motto is life has been 'Information is Strength' so instead of chastising them as I read here all too often let them advise you!!!  

There is always a first time but you also have to realize the culture may be very different at different offices.

In other words don't project your personal expertise at one office on everyone else at all offices.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

Immigration does not issue Non O visas.  They give extensions of visas.  You need to go abroad to a Thai Embassy or Consulate to get a visa then apply at Immigration for an extension based on retirement using your income.  I also strongly suggest you change your attitude, ask for advice and help instead of blowing up and stomping out.

They stopped doing conversions to 90 day O visas at all offices as the first step of the two step process?
I find that very hard to believe!

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

20 hours ago, dcnx said:

You are obviously unable to see the larger picture and piece together what’s happening nationwide. Don’t worry, they will get to you soon enough.

Been here 20 years 3 coups.  You don't think I can see the big picture?  I mentioned it before - it has nothing to do with us.  Think a bit.  What would you do if the two countries with the largest populations in the world were coming into wealth that made it possible for them to retire in you country for less than they could stay home?  You'd up the bar so only the wealthy could come. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by marcusarelus

[FaFaHead]

9 hours ago, Martyp said:

"Went to Immigration today with two packets with EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO GET NON Immigrant O visa."

 

I am curious. How did you know what you needed for the Non-Immigrant O visa? Did you get this information from the Chiang Mai Immigration office before making your preparations? Did they give you incorrect information?

I had an agent acquaintance put everything together for me...I had everything I needed. That’s why I was so pissed off. I went through this two months ago! This is nothing new! Albeit, I wasn’t as prepared as I was the other day, but same kind of treatment. To hell with them. 

 

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

He wrote in his posts that he did a transfer from his Bank of America (BOA) account to his Bangkok Bank Account.

Yes they are...

[lkv]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You'd up the bar so only the wealthy could come. 

And improve the quality of service not decrease it at higher prices.

 

But let's leave this rant for the other topics we are both participating in, that are more relevant. Tourism, Vietnam and all that.

 

This is about conversions to Non O at Chiang Mai office.

 

And I do wish to know if the OP had the document from the bank proving it was overseas income, as ubonjoe said.

Edited July 23, 2019 by lkv

[nickmondo]

22 hours ago, FaFaHead said:

Back home to the states. I’m in a 3 year lease and that’s a consideration. I live in a great neighborhood and have a nice house here in Doi Saket. This Immigration stuff sucks. As I scooped up my papers I told the Thai officer that they didn’t want Falangs and this Immigration attitude was bullshit and walked out. The wife and I spend some pretty good BHt every month here. Really pisses me off.  Coming here was a mistake I think. Breaking the lease, etc., is going to be a hassle. Damn Thailand!

i dont blame you mate.  im off soon also

[FaFaHead]

8 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

After rereading the original post I'm in agreement.

 

So the OP should be following the conversion process and submitted a TM86 to change Visa status.

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

Financial requirements.

5. 5.1 A guarantee letter from the bank in Thailand in Thai language (Attention: Immigration Commissioner)*
5.2 A copy  of all entries of the applicant’s passbook showing that the applicant has a savings or fixed deposit account  of not less than Baht 800,000* (all documents must be in the Applicant’s name).
5.3 Evidence of foreign currency fund transferred to Thailand*
*(Documents under 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3 must be issued and updated to be the same date of the Application and all documents must be in the Applicant’s name.)or

6. A guarantee letter from the local or overseas Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension of the Applicant not less than Baht 65,000 per month (together with reference documents showing the source of said monthly pension); or

7. Evidence of deposited money under Clause 5 and evidence of income under Clause 6  (for one year) showing the total amount not less than Baht 800,000

 

Theoretically TI should have accepted just one 65K transfer as proof of income, but the key question is how is the OP transferring his income and is it coded as International.

 

 

 

 

I had from last November documented three ways...B of A direct deposits...TransferWise DD into Bangkok Bank every month and bank letter, printouts for every month monies were deposited into the bank. This is bullshit. If I paid 25k to my agent friend...she says ten, I’d be a happy man right now.  I’ll go to Vientiene and if it doesn’t work, I’ll say screw it and leave. I’m really tired of this crap. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by FaFaHead

[nickmondo]

the visas here are so complicated at times.

they should make it simpler for people.

i think what the OP is doing is changing from Tourist to Retirement Visa, and for this there is a process.

I have done it in the past.

He can do this with either the income or the money in bank option.

[FaFaHead]

7 hours ago, BoBoTheClown said:

Is this true?

They gave me a printout outlining this. 

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, FaFaHead said:

I had from last November documented three ways...B of A direct deposits...TransferWise DD into Bangkok Bank every month and bank letter, printouts for every month monies were deposited into the bank. This is bullshit. If I paid 25k to my agent friend...she says ten, I’d be a happy man right now.  I’ll go to Vientiene and if it doesn’t work, I’ll say screw it and leave. I’m really tired of this crap. 

Maybe I missed something buy why not just put 800k in the bank?

[FaFaHead]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

OP, maybe you got a bad Immigration officer on a bad day, or maybe they were pushing you to use an agent...

 

But re the details of your original post, if the CM Immigration folks were actually following their own rules, this is what they'd want from you in the way of financials in order to obtain a 90-day Non-O based on retirement or an ultimate annual retirement extension:

 

Using the 65K baht per month method of financials (you're an American, so you can't get an Embassy income affidavit any more...):

 

--they typically want the money going into an account solely in your name, not a joint account.

 

--they typically want your Thai bank book itself to show/code the incoming transfers as being from a foreign source, with a code like FTT, and not a code like Bahtnet, which can mean a local domestic transfer even if it actually isn't.

 

--for future years after 2019, they'll want those 65K foreign transfers each and every month of the year without exception, meaning you can show them a 12 month history when you re-apply.

 

--And, they'll want a letter from the Thai bank where the funds are received in your solo account confirming and listing the various incoming foreign transfers they received into your account, and the dates and amounts of those. (If the transfers from Transferwise are coded in your bankbook at "Bahtnet", then the Thai bank probably won't include them in any letter they'll give to you for Immigration).

As I said in an earlier post I had all of that and more.

[FaFaHead]

2 hours ago, CM Dad said:

Immigration does not issue Non O visas.  They give extensions of visas.  You need to go abroad to a Thai Embassy or Consulate to get a visa then apply at Immigration for an extension based on retirement using your income.  I also strongly suggest you change your attitude, ask for advice and help instead of blowing up and stomping out.

I Did not blow up and stomp put...I looked the guy in the eye and told him it was obvious thy didn’t want Falangs and I thought it was bullshit. I then picked up my packets and walked away as he giggled. I don’t need you to preach to me or tell me how to act at my age. Mind your damn business..l

[FaFaHead]

1 hour ago, JDGRUEN said:

Dear FaFaHead ... you have other options.  But first an option you don't have.  

First a Non Imm O Visa is issued at some Immigration Offices - namely Changwatana in Bkk. They put out a package that in 60 day allows you to get the One Year Extension of Stay. This is done in Krabi Province and at other Immigration offices. But you must apply in the jurisdiction where you live - so that's out.

 

Best option and the one you could have or should have taken in the first place.  Get a Non Imm O-A Multi-Entry Visa - but that must be done in your home country.  Notice the "A" - it is not an O Visa - it is better.

Your money in the Bank (800K baht equivalent) would be in a home country bank in your currency - seasoned for 3 months.

 Or the 65K Baht monthly income equivalent for 12 months would be documented by your home country bank records and pension records

 

Go online - find the Thai Embassy / Consulate website in your home country.  Look up their list of requirements... correspond by email with them for clarification. You will have to get a medical certification - nothing to it. Same with a police background check - fairly simple.

 

Yes, you do have to go back home for a bit but it is very possible you will get the O-A Visa. Advantage The O-A actually provides 2 years of stay (how that works I can explain to you later). You only do 90 day reports - no showing of finances to Immigration in Thailand, as a multi-entry visa - no Reentry Permits to buy in the first year. 

 

Thousands of Expats are doing this to get away from the arbitrary and capricious Thai I/Os 

Just think - two years with no interaction with Thai Immigration except 90 day reports and an occasional TM.30

Thank you for your time and effort putting this post together for me. Much appreciated my friend. 

[FaFaHead]

42 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes he can.

I think he just needs to sort out his proof of his income coming from abroad.

Again! Print outs of SS and retirement going into my B of A in the states since last November when we got here. Same for TransferWise bringing Monet and Direct depositing into Bangkok Bank...print outs for every monthly deposit since November into Bangkok Bank by them...a Bangkok Bank letter regarding funds. As I said, this is BS!

[overherebc]

17 minutes ago, FaFaHead said:

Thank you for your time and effort putting this post together for me. Much appreciated my friend. 

You can even disregard the 90 day reporting by having a day or two break in a nearby country every 89 days. When you leave and come back to Thailand it resets the 90 day timing.

[Martyp]

6 minutes ago, FaFaHead said:

Again! Print outs of SS and retirement going into my B of A in the states since last November when we got here. Same for TransferWise bringing Monet and Direct depositing into Bangkok Bank...print outs for every monthly deposit since November into Bangkok Bank by them...a Bangkok Bank letter regarding funds. As I said, this is BS!

No doubt you can produce a paper trail back to the US. Does the bank letter, by itself, say that each monthly deposit is of foreign origin? I think the code is FFT. I wouldn’t think that they want to pour over a pile of supporting documents.

 

Did you say you originally had a joint bank account and do any deposits to that account even count? How many deposits do you need?

 

There are no end to the threads posted by people who can’t depend on their monthly deposits being coded as foreign transfers, including Transferwise. At the very least it will require monthly vigilance and it sounds like you would rather have a drama free stay in Thailand. Is depositing 800,000 baht not an option?

 

[emptypockets]

23 hours ago, FaFaHead said:

My wife is an administrator at the Unity Concord International School in Chiang Mai...hard to leave...

No its really not. You wife can resign any time she wants, they wont miss her. She's really not that important.. Methinks just another whining thread.

[onera1961]

The problem is that if you take advise from most people posting here, you will get confused. People will often post their own experience (and often made up, irrelevant information and confusing information) without posting the Immigration office where the said experience occurred. Some posters here will only post the rules which is meaning less in a country where there is no judicial remedy. I am not sure who told you to go to Laos to get a Tourist visa. Did the CM office told you to do so? In some offices you can change a Tourist visa to an O visa for subsequent extension of your stay. I am not sure if you can do so in CM. If they say no, probably you cant. Some offices will require agent submitted application for changing a tourist to O and then to retirement extension. May be CM office requires agent submitted application. If I were you, I will directly ask the IO if they could make it happen for an additional fee (a bribe). 

[emptypockets]

21 hours ago, smedly said:

stop spreading unfounded stupid conspiracies 

Yes, that is a restricted occupation to certain forum members.