illegally fined on tourist visa, accept as thainess?

[Drax]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Landlord should pay. As a gesture of goodwill offer to pay half otherwise Immigration will charge you next time you go. Landlord sounds like a dick, find a new place

 

 

That or pay and take it off from rent. Curious how landlord will react. It’s landlord bill anyways 

[tgeezer]

It would be unreasonable to fine the landlord, they involved you because they were relying on you to pay, I would not call it a fine. Now that it seems the principle has been accepted that visitors are ‘fair game’ the police can be blatant. 

[lkv]

5 hours ago, dcnx said:

You’re perfect for this place. Did you wai everyone when it was all over?

Yep. Exactly what they are looking for. 

 

And we know what kind of foreigner they are looking for, but I will refrain from saying it.

 

 

[Date Masamune]

Pay. Then move house. You don’t want this landlord.

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been reported and removed. 

[Sticky Wicket]

8 hours ago, DavisH said:

What's Thai culture got to do with it? It's the responsibility of the house/condo owner to report their foreugn residents. They are the ones who should pay the fine. "You are rich farang, you must pay" is a cop out. I can almost guarantee that your landlord has more money / assets than you do. What's going to happen is that is is going to be more and more difficult for foreigners to rent in Thailand as their landlords would rather not bother with the paperwork and will not like to pay any fines occurred (as you can see). 

 

or tax! Most don't want to get on the radar in the first place

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, at15 said:

 

this is what im thinking, paying half is an acceptable resolution. the landlord is not a dick, extremely kind and helpful. you have to understand thai culture, they would not thing this is wrong at all. its like a child who does not know right from wrong, you cannot punish them for that. 

So you think it is acceptable, yet post here to complain about it? 

Forcing other people pay your fines to me is not acceptable. Should I pay the fine of the Thai guy not wearing a helmet, who waits at the lights next to me? 

[RJRS1301]

When I first moved into a condo in Phitsanulok, the juristic person was unaware that forms had to be lodged.

I found out accidently by just walking into the immigration office with a Thai friend, as I knew I had to do 90 day report later.

Took the form back to juristic office for signing etc, first they had been aware of it (large complex) . Many farang with leases. Lodged the forms with 48 hrs, no issues. Police eventually did a "raid" several weeks later. 

[Skallywag]

12 hours ago, at15 said:

The police agree with the landlord I must pay because we have to take care of Thai people. So its either swallow my pride and pay or lose face with landlord that has been nothing but good to me. If i refuse to pay would this be a possible deportation ? 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

[ubonjoe]

This topic just got several posts shorter after removing several, troll, baiting and stalking posts and replies to them.

[berybert]

Do you speak fluent Thai and only visit as a tourist ? very impressive. Or did your landlord and the police speak in English ?

[kevin612]

It is not your responsibility, but this is Thailand. Unfair to foreigners

[marcusarelus]

When you get a certificate of residency at Immigration don't they report your address?  I believe the fellow did that. 

[jackdd]

25 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

Sounds like OP is renting a room in an apartment, then he isn't the possessor of the residence, but just the possessor of one room of the residence, this would imho be the same as staying in a hotel.

[at15]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

When you get a certificate of residency at Immigration don't they report your address?  I believe the fellow did that. 

every person arriving in thailand has to fill out their address on their entry card, it is a moot point. if you are a foreigner upright and drawing air, the police know where you are unless you lied on the form. if your friend or parent came to visit you a week in thailand, would you be telling them to make sure to go into immigration to do a bunch of paperwork? No absolutely not. Im a tourist not a person actually living here. 

[marcusb]

When this TM30 business started getting into the media I was surprised the law states the owner(Thai) will be fined. I thought yeah, right. Thats not going to happen.

 I changed my visa in Muk, went back to my home province, reported to immi the next day. All ok. Three hours later landlord calls me to come to immi. I go and immi explains I did not notify soon enough and the owner was getting fined 1600 baht. Here we go. Then the IO said he and the landlord discussed it and figured I should pay! Exactly what I guessed would happen. They put you on the spot. The law clearly says the owner pays... but in real life good luck. 
 I pointed out that I returned to my province the previous day at 17:00 so it was still not 24 hours. The whole thing was dropped. But it showed me what I anticipated. Thais not going to fine Thai if a farang can pay. 

In your case, I'd have paid half as mentioned.  TIT

[scubascuba3]

every person arriving in thailand has to fill out their address on their entry card, it is a moot point. if you are a foreigner upright and drawing air, the police know where you are unless you lied on the form. if your friend or parent came to visit you a week in thailand, would you be telling them to make sure to go into immigration to do a bunch of paperwork? No absolutely not. Im a tourist not a person actually living here. 

Being a tourist It's only an issue if you have to go to Immigration for an extension

[at15]

Just now, marcusb said:

 Thais not going to fine Thai if a farang can pay. 

best statement of the entire thread. 

some people just cant comprehend things dont work like a western country. 

[scubascuba3]

best statement of the entire thread. 
some people just cant comprehend things dont work like a western country. 

Only because its easier getting money out of a farang than a Thai

[tabarin]

My landlord always has excuses to not do it as well, already paid a fine previously as I would otherwise waste my time on the extension. 
Pretty done with it, my resolution is moving out after I found a nice place, lot's of choice for little nowadays anyway.

Edited July 23, 2019 by tabarin

[brewsterbudgen]

33 minutes ago, at15 said:

every person arriving in thailand has to fill out their address on their entry card, it is a moot point. if you are a foreigner upright and drawing air, the police know where you are unless you lied on the form. if your friend or parent came to visit you a week in thailand, would you be telling them to make sure to go into immigration to do a bunch of paperwork? No absolutely not. Im a tourist not a person actually living here. 

The entry card (TM6) is really irrelevant. As soon as the foreigner arrives at the first place they're going to stay a TM30 needs to be completed.  In most cases (for tourists) it will be a hotel, and the foreigner will have no idea that it's been done.  If it's not a hotel, then someone should complete the TM30 within 24 hours.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, at15 said:

if your friend or parent came to visit you a week in thailand, would you be telling them to make sure to go into immigration to do a bunch of paperwork?

Maybe, but if they stay with me, I certainly would be obliged to do it on their behalf

[at15]

millions of baht contributed to the economy for no reason other than tourism and love for thailand and still treated like a piece of garbage, says it all. once i sell my car its time to move on. 

[Don Mega]

15 hours ago, ukrules said:

There's also the arrival form you fill in at the airport.

 

If they're matching these up and going back in time to check which property owners have registered tourists then they're going to be very busy for the next few years.

Doubt they could read my handwriting... not to mention not enough space allowed to actually write the full address.

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, Briggsy said:

What province is this in? 

 

This is a banana republic, no rule of law here. If the cops say you pay, then you pay. Unless you have clout through connections. Do you?

 

Rule of thumb : Solve police problems here at the first possible instance, through cash if required.

 

That is not the way I play it. Pushback is my game. I have done this a dozen times. They ask for money and I say no. They get belligerent, and I say BACK DOWN! And start in with a whole litany of law (half of it is made up on the spot), my rights as a Thai resident, my expertise with social media, blah, blah, blah. You do not like it, arrest me, and take me to jail! I want to have a word with your captain. Or the mayor, whom I know. Or I might even talk to Prayuth. They always back down. They get scared and confused. I am not nasty with them. Just very firm. They are looking for an easy mark. They do not expect pushback, and are always surprised by it. All of these guys are basically franchisees, and I do not buy into their level of corruption. Sometimes I offer them 100 baht. Not often. The cops here and immigration are the last people in the world I am afraid of. They need to see more pushback. Thais are afraid to do so. But, I notice a bit of deference to foreigners, and I take full advantage of that! 

[at15]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

 

That is not the way I play it. Pushback is my game. I have done this a dozen times. They ask for money and I say no. They get belligerent, and I say BACK DOWN! And start in with a whole litany of law (half of it is made up on the spot), my rights as a Thai resident, my expertise with social media, blah, blah, blah. You do not like it, arrest me, and take me to jail! I want to have a word with your captain. Or the mayor, whom I know. Or I might even talk to Prayuth. They always back down. They get scared and confused. I am not nasty with them. Just very firm. They are looking for an easy mark. They do not expect pushback, and are always surprised by it. All of these guys are basically franchisees, and I do not buy into their level of corruption. Sometimes I offer them 100 baht. Not often. The cops here and immigration are the last people in the world I am afraid of. They need to see more pushback. Thais are afraid to do so. But, I notice a bit of deference to foreigners, and I take full advantage of that! 

im assuming you speak fluent thai, how is this possible otherwise? 

[Isaan Alan]

I'm not bitter about Thailand and there are very many good things about the country, but this episode shows the all too common Thai attitude to farangs. The fine is against the landlord for not reporting but the Thai police not doubt suggested the farang should pay and the landlord happily agreed. 

If Thai landlords had to pay then maybe they would simplify the rules or make it easier to comply. 24 hours to report is onerous. China lets you register at the local police station instead of going to a possibly distant immigration office.

Supposedly we are so lucky to be allowed to stay in this country that we must not complain, rock the boat or suggest smarter way to do it. 

We are just a cash cow to many of them and the new wider enforcing of TM30 is going to be a financial winner.

[spidermike007]

35 minutes ago, at15 said:

im assuming you speak fluent thai, how is this possible otherwise? 

My Thai is limited. They literally just do not expect it. It takes them completely off guard. When I start spouting the law and wanting to talk to the captain and start talking about Facebook they seem to get scared and really unsure of themselves. 

 

I think the bottom line if they are always looking for an easy mark. And that is what they are accustomed to. Pushback really works. I have used it with cops who try to extract speeding tickets too. Usually I am able to negotiate the fine way down. 

[GeorgeCross]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

That is not the way I play it. Pushback is my game. I have done this a dozen times. They ask for money and I say no. They get belligerent, and I say BACK DOWN! And start in with a whole litany of law (half of it is made up on the spot), my rights as a Thai resident, my expertise with social media, blah, blah, blah. You do not like it, arrest me, and take me to jail! I want to have a word with your captain. Or the mayor, whom I know. Or I might even talk to Prayuth. They always back down. They get scared and confused. I am not nasty with them. Just very firm. They are looking for an easy mark. They do not expect pushback, and are always surprised by it. All of these guys are basically franchisees, and I do not buy into their level of corruption. Sometimes I offer them 100 baht. Not often. The cops here and immigration are the last people in the world I am afraid of. They need to see more pushback. Thais are afraid to do so. But, I notice a bit of deference to foreigners, and I take full advantage of that! 

 

i agree, i do the same, and never had any ill consequences or ever been conned. the trick is to lean in, be confident and firm but NOT angry.

 

they are looking for easy marks, be one and pay or not and walk away with a smile.

 

thai baiting is a personal joy of mine, got to get those little victories where ya can! ????

 

 

[justin case]

18 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

When you got a residency certificate didn't you report your location?

a what now ?  12 years and never asked or offered such a thing