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Landlord says I file the TM30 not him. He is too busy for that.


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16 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Your advice means I confront condo office re tm30...they say pi** off and I move. Brilliant!

Noooooooo.

 

My advice is, you don't move in unless you are supplied with the documents to do the TM30 yourself.  Just in the same way you would not move in to a place with no water or electricity. 

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9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Noooooooo.

 

My advice is, you don't move in unless you are supplied with the documents to do the TM30 yourself.  Just in the same way you would not move in to a place with no water or electricity. 

I don't need condo to provide anything more than a lease. I can then do tm30 as possessor. 

Personally I plan to only do one each year. That will be upon last reentry to los prior to attending CW for annual extension. 

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17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Noooooooo.

 

My advice is, you don't move in unless you are supplied with the documents to do the TM30 yourself.  Just in the same way you would not move in to a place with no water or electricity. 

I think the discussion about the TM30 will be part of any new rental. The problem is that the recent enhanced enforcement has triggered the discussion between currently renting tenants and landlords. Confront or negotiate with your landlord. Stay or leave your current rental. Different people will make different choices.

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8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I don't need condo to provide anything more than a lease. I can then do tm30 as possessor. 

Personally I plan to only do one each year. That will be upon last reentry to los prior to attending CW for annual extension. 

I am not talking about your personal circumstances, I am talking in general.

 

Lease, passport, ID of Thai Landlord, and the tabien baan. 

 

What is one to do, if the Landlord refuses to supply the tenant with these documents?  My advice simply is, don't rent from them, and rent from a Landlord who is prepared to supply these document, in the same way a Landlord should ensure their property has electricity and water available.   

Edited by Leaver
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5 minutes ago, Martyp said:

I think the discussion about the TM30 will be part of any new rental. The problem is that the recent enhanced enforcement has triggered the discussion between currently renting tenants and landlords. Confront or negotiate with your landlord. Stay or leave your current rental. Different people will make different choices.

I accept that current renters may have to accept the 800 baht fine, due to the Landlord or Agent refusing to supply the necessary documents.

 

Just imagine for a moment that the TM30 is treated like the foreigners financial requirements in the future, in order to force Thai landlords to pay their taxes.  They can use the TM30 to collect more taxes from Thai's, or, their property is vacant, because the foreigner MUST move to a property where TM30 documents are supplied, and then the Thai Landlord gets his tax bill.   

 

What about 800 baht fine goes to 5000 baht, or 10,000 baht?  At what point would most foreigners move out and seek a property where TM30 documents are supplied?

 

What about if you skip a TM30, there are punitive measures in relation to your visa?  That is sure to force foreigners to seek a property where TM30 documents are supplied.

 

Sure, some "what if's" but "This Is Thailand" and in the current visa climate, the TM30 can be a great tool for immigration to use for revenue raising, from both foreigners, and Thai Landlords.  

 

Call me cynical, but I an see the TM30 becoming a cash cow.    

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I accept that current renters may have to accept the 800 baht fine, due to the Landlord or Agent refusing to supply the necessary documents.

 

Just imagine for a moment that the TM30 is treated like the foreigners financial requirements in the future, in order to force Thai landlords to pay their taxes.  They can use the TM30 to collect more taxes from Thai's, or, their property is vacant, because the foreigner MUST move to a property where TM30 documents are supplied, and then the Thai Landlord gets his tax bill.   

 

What about 800 baht fine goes to 5000 baht, or 10,000 baht?  At what point would most foreigners move out and seek a property where TM30 documents are supplied?

 

What about if you skip a TM30, there are punitive measures in relation to your visa?  That is sure to force foreigners to seek a property where TM30 documents are supplied.

 

Sure, some "what if's" but "This Is Thailand" and in the current visa climate, the TM30 can be a great tool for immigration to use for revenue raising, from both foreigners, and Thai Landlords.  

 

Call me cynical, but I an see the TM30 becoming a cash cow.    

 

 

Sorry too many “what ifs” for me. It’s an old law being enforced admittedly with outsized effects. If there is an agenda I see it as just part of a conservative government westernizing and rationalizing their Immigration system. It could just as easily become less strict because of pressure from big property developers. If the online registration can be worked out and/or there was a good app for my smartphone then I wouldn’t think twice about TM30 reporting.

 

 I can’t live my life being cynical and worrying (to much) about what ifs. If you want to point out that “This is Thailand” then you can just as easily say, “Sabai Sabai”. Go with the flow. Don’t be so quick to take offense.

 

As an American I can hardly comment on the behavior and motives of the Thai government after looking at the current craziness of American government and politics.

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39 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I am not talking about your personal circumstances, I am talking in general.

 

Lease, passport, ID of Thai Landlord, and the tabien baan. 

 

What is one to do, if the Landlord refuses to supply the tenant with these documents?  My advice simply is, don't rent from them, and rent from a Landlord who is prepared to supply these document, in the same way a Landlord should ensure their property has electricity and water available.   

Again what I stated that I am doing for tm30 was directed at folk having trouble with landlord providing docs or refusing to do it or not even being in the country. List goes on. Most living in a condo at the very least have a lease.

To file tm30 yourself as possessor you need lease, copy of identity page pp, copy of tm6, perhaps reentry permit (if you have one). That's it. You need nothing from landlord. No ID no tabien baan. 

Or you could find new condo. I know what I would do. 

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17 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Sorry too many “what ifs” for me. It’s an old law being enforced admittedly with outsized effects. If there is an agenda I see it as just part of a conservative government westernizing and rationalizing their Immigration system. It could just as easily become less strict because of pressure from big property developers. If the online registration can be worked out and/or there was a good app for my smartphone then I wouldn’t think twice about TM30 reporting.

 

 I can’t live my life being cynical and worrying (to much) about what ifs. If you want to point out that “This is Thailand” then you can just as easily say, “Sabai Sabai”. Go with the flow. Don’t be so quick to take offense.

 

As an American I can hardly comment on the behavior and motives of the Thai government after looking at the current craziness of American government and politics.

In Thaiand, it's the "what if's" that you should have a Plan B for. 

 

Just look how many were caught out in the last 6 months by the recent changes. 

 

Are you going to tell me "insurance" is another "what if" not to worry about?  I would say it's not "if" just when it's implemented. 

 

How does online registration help those who have a Landlord refusing to supply the necessary documents because they are avoiding taxation? 

Edited by Leaver
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2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

In Thaiand, it's the "what if's" that you should have a Plan B for. 

 

Just look how many were caught out in the last 6 months by the recent changes. 

 

Are you going to tell me "insurance" is another "what if" not to worry about?  I would say it's not "if" just when it's implemented. 

Yes. I think insurance is another “what if” but I’ve already got more than enough Thai insurance for whatever comes along. My Plan B has already been implemented. I have insurance because you should have insurance. Not because I think it will be required.

Edited by Martyp
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7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Again what I stated that I am doing for tm30 was directed at folk having trouble with landlord providing docs or refusing to do it or not even being in the country. List goes on. Most living in a condo at the very least have a lease.

To file tm30 yourself as possessor you need lease, copy of identity page pp, copy of tm6, perhaps reentry permit (if you have one). That's it. You need nothing from landlord. No ID no tabien baan. 

Or you could find new condo. I know what I would do. 

 

See photo in post #68. 

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2 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Yes. I think insurance is another “what if” but I’ve already got more than enough Thai insurance for whatever comes along. My Plan B has already been implemented. I have insurance because you should have insurance. Not because I think it will be required.

Does your insurance company cover you only to a certain age?  What about pre-existing conditions?  There are the "what if's" that should not be waved away as "sabai sabai and go with the flow."

 

No insurance may mean no visa in the future, thus Plan B needed. 

 

Back to the TM30, al I am saying is, people should be dealing with it now.  They should be actively seeking out the documents, or seriously consider moving to a place where the TM30 documents are supplied, as I can only see the TM30 punitive measures increasing from an 800 baht fine to who knows what, and it may extend beyond a fine, to have an impact on your visa application. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Does your insurance company cover you only to a certain age?  What about pre-existing conditions?  There are the "what if's" that should not be waved away as "sabai sabai and go with the flow."

 

No insurance may mean no visa in the future, thus Plan B needed. 

 

Back to the TM30, al I am saying is, people should be dealing with it now.  They should be actively seeking out the documents, or seriously consider moving to a place where the TM30 documents are supplied, as I can only see the TM30 punitive measures increasing from an 800 baht fine to who knows what, and it may extend beyond a fine, to have an impact on your visa application. 

 

 

The people who know about TM30 are dealing with it now before or when they encounter an Immigration requirement. Whether they are dealing with it effectively is the issue. If I want my 1 year extension in November I will do what I think best to have my TM30 on hand at that time. If people want to battle with their landlord that is up to them. If they get satisfaction from venting about the unfairness of it all, that a foreign country is in fact foreign, then that is up to them as well.

 

Plan B (in the extreme) - I can reactivate my US health insurance. Also, Americans see any discussion about insurance differently than people from other countries with universal insurance coverage. My Thai coverage is pretty good and affordable compared to my US coverage. Whether either coverage is actually any good will have to wait until I make a claim.

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37 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Perhaps read many posts made by members providing exactly what I just listed as possessor. Receiving the receipt few weeks later.

Perhaps read many posts by members that require what I have listed, and what is listed in the photo on post #68. 

 

What is your advice to them?

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40 minutes ago, Leaver said:

@ MartyP and Dr. J

 

I accept different immigration officers do things differently, but does that mean we should not discuss that immigration offices that have more stringent requirements? 

No. Just that each assertion should be qualified as to which office were are talking attention. 

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36 minutes ago, Martyp said:

The people who know about TM30 are dealing with it now before or when they encounter an Immigration requirement. Whether they are dealing with it effectively is the issue. If I want my 1 year extension in November I will do what I think best to have my TM30 on hand at that time. If people want to battle with their landlord that is up to them. If they get satisfaction from venting about the unfairness of it all, that a foreign country is in fact foreign, then that is up to them as well.

 

Plan B (in the extreme) - I can reactivate my US health insurance. Also, Americans see any discussion about insurance differently than people from other countries with universal insurance coverage. My Thai coverage is pretty good and affordable compared to my US coverage. Whether either coverage is actually any good will have to wait until I make a claim.

I'm quiet sure no one wants a battle with anyone. 

 

I am sure most foreigners would just like people to meet their obligation when a foreigners is staying in their property, with many foreigners even prepared to do the TM30 themselves, if they can be supplied the necessary documents by the Landlord.  

 

It appears that the Thai Landlord's practicing tax avoidance are the ones causing all the trouble.  So, they have a financial incentive not to supply TM30 documents.  All I am suggesting is people should seriously consider TM30 implications before renting from such Landlords.  

 

In relation to your insurance, good to see you have already considered the "what if's" which is all I ever suggested people do, within reason, of course.  ????

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4 minutes ago, Martyp said:

No. Just that each assertion should be qualified as to which office were are talking attention. 

That would make for a very long thread.

 

Why not take the worse office scenario, and any other office requiring less is a bonus for those members that go to that office? 

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On 7/23/2019 at 1:46 PM, at15 said:

your going to be responsible for the fine no matter what the law says. thais are not obligated to rent condos and apartments to foreigners. in the future i predict no foreigners on tourist visas will be allowed to rent and there will be designated hotels were tourists are allowed to stay and that is it. 

China 1980s. Vietnam 1990s

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1 hour ago, Sydebolle said:

Be cool about it and see the immigration; tell them that your landlord refuses it, give the numbers and details. Lets see whose clock is would up first! 

Is that a joke. My bet nothing. If the landlord is fined or whatever, your life in that rental is stuffed. Maybe your in a walk in/out, most are not. Far better ways around tm30 than lock horns.

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4 hours ago, Leaver said:

That would make for a very long thread.

 

Why not take the worse office scenario, and any other office requiring less is a bonus for those members that go to that office? 

Really..because the imm office that requires worse case scenario may represent small % above zero.

Jomtien requires zip. I have already posted about CW. They are perhaps couple of main imm offices. Can you list the offices that require post #68 you referred to.

As for MANY others, file as possessor with only lease and minor other passport copies does the job. 

Edited by DrJack54
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4 hours ago, Leaver said:

Perhaps read many posts by members that require what I have listed, and what is listed in the photo on post #68. 

 

What is your advice to them?

List the offices that require post #68. 

Meaning those that do not accept tm30 file as possessor. 

 

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On 7/24/2019 at 12:33 AM, ChipButty said:

The yellow book is not compulsory yes I know it's for a farang, 

Sorry, your post asked who would do it under particular circumstances and I was suggesting how to do it yourself.

Even if not compulsory, if it's available it may support any application if submitted, maybe if a chanote or Land Reg docs aren't available.  It definitely won't help anything if it's left in a drawer.

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On 7/23/2019 at 12:45 PM, mtls2005 said:

Yours is a cautionary tale that this sort of thing should be sorted out BEFORE entering into a contract. Maybe negotiating a reduced rent in return for taking on this obligation?

 

You'll be fine until you have some business with Immigration, at which time your "coolness" may be tested.

 

Personally, I'd handle myself (registering for use with the online system using the owner's documentation).

 

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                      

May I ask about reporting TM.30 by yourself via online system? I'm a person who is dealing with the reporting for my foreigners in the office. They have several oversea business trips so I would like to know whether it is possible for me to report via online system. I don't want to ask the owner of the condo they stay to do this. (Just requiring a signature on the needed documents takes time and I have to require it through landlord agent).

 

As I know now that the foreigners have to report for TM.30 within 5 days after arriving Thailand (and you won't be fined). Still the documents with fresh signature of the condo's owner is needed.

 

So if I want to report via internet. Can you please give me some advice? 

You used condo owner's documents just when you registered the online system? and you did it by yourself? What about other next time? Do you still need to upload the needed documents from the owner?

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14 minutes ago, mew natthi said:

May I ask about reporting TM.30 by yourself via online system? I'm a person who is dealing with the reporting for my foreigners in the office. They have several oversea business trips so I would like to know whether it is possible for me to report via online system. I don't want to ask the owner of the condo they stay to do this. (Just requiring a signature on the needed documents takes time and I have to require it through landlord agent).

 

As I know now that the foreigners have to report for TM.30 within 5 days after arriving Thailand (and you won't be fined). Still the documents with fresh signature of the condo's owner is needed.

 

So if I want to report via internet. Can you please give me some advice? 

You used condo owner's documents just when you registered the online system? and you did it by yourself? What about other next time? Do you still need to upload the needed documents from the owner?

https://phomes-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Power-of-Attorney-Form.pdf

 

You can have ur landlord sign this power of attorney, then u should be able to do it for him. But yes you need the documents from him, housebook and id copy signed, if no housebook then title deed seems also ok.

 

you can use this documents to signup online as the possesor, there's a menu entry for house possesor - but i am waiting since months for my login data...

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57 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

https://phomes-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Power-of-Attorney-Form.pdf

 

You can have ur landlord sign this power of attorney, then u should be able to do it for him. But yes you need the documents from him, housebook and id copy signed, if no housebook then title deed seems also ok.

 

you can use this documents to signup online as the possesor, there's a menu entry for house possesor - but i am waiting since months for my login data...

Many thanks for your advice. You took months to get login data...!! The foreigners in my office is going to fly for business trip in the middle of Aug for 5 days, it may not possible to report online when he is back this time.....I will try it ^^

 

but at least, if I can report online, I don't need to get the original copy with wet signature of condo owner's document (The counter officer at Immigration's requirement).

 

Thank you very much ThomasTHBKK

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The wife has properties she rents out has 3 falang along with Thai mixture she used to do the TM30 but stopped when the local immigration insisted falang had to do it every time they were away from the district for 24 hrs nightmare.

So she gives all necessary documentation to her Tennant's she  allows a 500bht rent deduction once a year for her foreign clients time in filling the TM30's it is also written into the leases now as well that as possessor of property it is there responsibility to do the TM30. 

Never an issue from any Tennant.

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