Fewer tourists are going to Thailand because of its expensive currency

[Pilotman]

On 7/23/2019 at 2:01 PM, Roy Baht said:

According to this article--and to reality--it is the strong baht that is keeping tourists out. Period. The Draconian visa rules are (as intended by the Thai gov't) driving long-stay expats out. That's an entirely different matter. Now, this is bad in some ways (breaking up families supported by honest, hard-working foreigners) and good in others (driving out foreign scam artists, dirtbags and mongers). But to say this is at all related to tourism is to misstate the reality. Tourists come and go with very little contact with IO.  If you are here on a tourist visa, raising & supporting a Thai family, you are not a tourist.  If you are here on a tourist visa, scamming, slumming & whoring, you are not a tourist either--certainly not a tourist Thailand wants.  

Draconian immigration rules, not sure I would put it that strongly? You have to show that you have some reasonable capital amount around you, nothing wrong with that. If you don't have a capital in the bank here, you must show that you are transferring enough money each month and year to support yourself. Nothing wrong with that.  You have to tell them where you live and confirm that every 3 months, nothing wrong with that. What's so draconian about those things?  Try moving as an permanent expat to Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland or Monaco to find out what 'draconian' is.   

[bowerboy]

30 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Draconian immigration rules, not sure I would put it that strongly? You have to show that you have some reasonable capital amount around you, nothing wrong with that. If you don't have a capital in the bank here, you must show that you are transferring enough money each month and year to support yourself. Nothing wrong with that.  You have to tell them where you live and confirm that every 3 months, nothing wrong with that. What's so draconian about those things?  Try moving as an permanent expat to Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland or Monaco to find out what 'draconian' is.   

 

1. Each of those countries has a process for becoming a permanent resident. Thailand does not (it does but not in any normal rational sense).

 

2. Once you are Permanent Resident of those countries then you don’t have to report any more AND you can work and live like a local.

 

Sure the barriers are higher in those places but that’s the whole point of them (to attract only desirables).

 

why doesn’t Thailand do this? In comparison to those countries you mention what isn’t Draconian about the Thai system and lack of ability to gain a secure level of residence without being made to feel like a fugitive?

 

I am here on a work visa. No way I would jump through all those hoops to live in what is basically a third world hitehole. Once my work visa ever runs out I am out of here.

[Pilotman]

17 minutes ago, bowerboy said:

 

1. Each of those countries has a process for becoming a permanent resident. Thailand does not (it does but not in any normal rational sense).

 

2. Once you are Permanent Resident of those countries then you don’t have to report any more AND you can work and live like a local.

 

Sure the barriers are higher in those places but that’s the whole point of them (to attract only desirables).

 

why doesn’t Thailand do this? In comparison to those countries you mention what isn’t Draconian about the Thai system and lack of ability to gain a secure level of residence without being made to feel like a fugitive?

 

I am here on a work visa. No way I would jump through all those hoops to live in what is basically a third world hitehole. Once my work visa ever runs out I am out of here.

Nothing at all stopping you, or anyone else, applying to become a permanent resident in Thailand, there is a well publicised process for that to happen, as you can also eventfully apply for citizenship, if you so wish. In Hong Kong, such a status is not easy to obtain and is a long drawn out procedure.  Singapore is easier, but you had better have a awful lot more than 800K in the bank to succeed. 

[marcusarelus]

22 minutes ago, bowerboy said:

 

1. Each of those countries has a process for becoming a permanent resident. Thailand does not (it does but not in any normal rational sense).

 

2. Once you are Permanent Resident of those countries then you don’t have to report any more AND you can work and live like a local.

Do Permanent Thai Residents have to do 90 day reports?

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Nothing at all stopping you, or anyone else, applying to become a permanent resident in Thailand, there is a well publicised process for that to happen, as you can also eventfully apply for citizenship, if you so wish. 

Not being employed in a full time job with a work permit would cause a bit of a problem with the application.

[Pilotman]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Not being employed in a full time job with a work permit would cause a bit of a problem with the application.

True, but not sure why anyone would expect Permanent Residency if they couldn't support themselves, either with a job (WP) or substantial assets held here on retirement. 

[bowerboy]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Not being employed in a full time job with a work permit would cause a bit of a problem with the application.

 

And still can’t work on it anyway....almost completely pointless...

[bowerboy]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Do Permanent Thai Residents have to do 90 day reports?

 

Good question. Do they? With the way things are I would be pretty surprised if they did t have to

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, bowerboy said:

 

Good question. Do they? With the way things are I would be pretty surprised if they did t have to

No, 90d and the others are in Section 37-38 of immigration act, which concerns temporary stays. Which means everything else except PR.

 

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-sections-34-39/

[Lenny Jones]

Ka-Ching! - Somebody finally turned the light on.

 

And - - - -

 

THERE'S THE PROBLEM !

[sambum]

On 7/23/2019 at 1:08 PM, madmitch said:

One moment arrivals are up, the next they're dropping!

Will we ever get any consistency from the TAT and the Tourism Ministry?

I wouldn't be taking bets on that one!

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, bowerboy said:

 

Good question. Do they? With the way things are I would be pretty surprised if they did t have to

Perhaps investigate before posting false statements. 

[Orton Rd]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

True, but not sure why anyone would expect Permanent Residency if they couldn't support themselves, either with a job (WP) or substantial assets held here on retirement. 

People on pensions can support themselves and have a guaranteed income. I would like to apply for PR but cannot as I have not worked and paid tax for 3 years, although what that has to do with it if you have been here over a decade I fail to understand.

[bangrak]

Hi guys, can't you stick a bit to the topic? This item is NOT about 'expats'/'residents', well, 'aliens long stay' for the locals, but about TOURISTS, visiting for days or a couple of weeks! Yes, I know, I am confronted to the same problems as many here, being under 'retirement visa', but the problematic of (very-) short-stay(*) tourists is much different, more immediate, and simply go/no go. (*) Another part that is not addressed: 10 years ago the average stay from tourists visiting Thailand was around 10 nights (down from 12), now, when TAT would, ever, dare(!) to have such statistics, my guess (based on intel from friends running hotels and resorts) is it would be below 4 (mainly 'thanks to' Chinese, Koreans, and other Asians)! And THAT makes a huge difference in spending per visitor, wouldn't you say! But hush... yeah, sure

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

People on pensions can support themselves and have a guaranteed income. I would like to apply for PR but cannot as I have not worked and paid tax for 3 years, although what that has to do with it if you have been here over a decade I fail to understand.

Well It's not much good grumbling about the rules for PR, they are what they are.  I imagine that the tax paying part is to demonstrate a previous and ongoing financial commitment and contribution to the country, over and above that required by visa rules, but I don't know, as I for one am not at all interested in being a permanent resident in Thailand,  temporary is fine for me. 

[JamJar]

On 7/24/2019 at 10:53 AM, marcusarelus said:

The high season is August?  I think everyone can agree the crash of the pound and Aussie dollar has hurt tourism but as for the rest you have no way of knowing.  Good first post though.  

 

He stated, Samui.

[DrTuner]

27 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

People on pensions can support themselves and have a guaranteed income. I would like to apply for PR but cannot as I have not worked and paid tax for 3 years, although what that has to do with it if you have been here over a decade I fail to understand.

If I understood correctly you also need to stay paying taxes while it's processed. No idea how many years the queue is now. Can't even find the thread about PRs anymore, people just don't bother. Last time I checked they weren't doing PR based on investment anymore. So you need to get a job in TH for years to pass the muster. No thanks, my working days are over.

 

EDIT: Google finds what TVF search can't: 

 

EDIT2: And it is relevant. One of the reasons I travel as a tourist is for spotting possible places to move to. Thailand was one where people would visit and then start living in on back to back temporary visas. 

[Ron jeremy]

Thailand simply isn't a cheap destination anymore, better value elsewhere, 

please keep in mind cheaper and better value are 2 totally different things.

its just gotten to be one big scamming shithole.

lowlifes flock there for a reason, pattaya is full of them. 

The Thais had it too good for too long, thought it would never end, scam the tourists, rape the tourists, take every dollar they have, treat them like shit.

guess what's happenning now?

people have gone elsewhere and found places where the locals actuallyWANT you there, treat you well, and welcome you.

its also historically the most unstable country in the region, military junta, protests, airport closures, corrupt police etc etc etc. 

And with the drop in currency, the perfect storm is now complete.

[Chivas]

11 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

Thailand simply isn't a cheap destination anymore, better value elsewhere, 

please keep in mind cheaper and better value are 2 totally different things.

its just gotten to be one big scamming shithole.

lowlifes flock there for a reason, pattaya is full of them. 

The Thais had it too good for too long, thought it would never end, scam the tourists, rape the tourists, take every dollar they have, treat them like shit.

guess what's happenning now?

people have gone elsewhere and found places where the locals actuallyWANT you there, treat you well, and welcome you.

its also historically the most unstable country in the region, military junta, protests, airport closures, corrupt police etc etc etc. 

And with the drop in currency, the perfect storm is now complete.

Perfectly said and perfectly accurate....

[CaptainJack]

My old girlfriend,  a Marketing Professional working in the Thai tourist industry yesterday was at the ATTA meeting.   She sent me this breakdown in tourist numbers. I think I would be inclined to believe this information,  as it is not some news media product.   

 

As you can imagine,  she is not happy,  working 14 hour days just trying to stay afloat.   

 

Thailand has become it's own worse enemy now on so many levels,  I doubt a large number of expats that have left would even come back now, even if the government rolled back the new immigration rules.  And probably the same for the tourists.  They are gone.

 

[Traubert]

On 7/24/2019 at 8:14 AM, Fex Bluse said:

Maybe... With the exception of Singapore. 

Best but still relatively poor. 

Southeast Asia is just a total mess. 

It's Africa Lite. 

Compared against where?

 

You just wrote off 54% of the word population. Do explain?

[Traubert]

1 hour ago, CaptainJack said:

My old girlfriend,  a Marketing Professional working in the Thai tourist industry yesterday was at the ATTA meeting.   She sent me this breakdown in tourist numbers. I think I would be inclined to believe this information,  as it is not some news media product.   

 

As you can imagine,  she is not happy,  working 14 hour days just trying to stay afloat.   

 

Thailand has become it's own worse enemy now on so many levels,  I doubt a large number of expats that have left would even come back now, even if the government rolled back the new immigration rules.  And probably the same for the tourists.  They are gone.

 

Can you put that up in smaller script and maybe a bit fuzzier please.

 

My pet owl says his eyes are are aching.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 7/23/2019 at 7:08 AM, SmartyMarty said:

first it's lack of safety, then violence, then a high baht.....what next?

Safety and violence are not issues here. Compared to UK, USA, Europe etc Thailand is a haven of peace and calm. I can walk round Pattaya and Bangkok any time of days or night and its very safe compared to the USA and British cities. 80 murders so far this year in London, plus stabbings,  acid throwing,  gang violence and motor cycle gang crime.

[CaptainJack]

3 hours ago, Traubert said:

Can you put that up in smaller script and maybe a bit fuzzier please.

 

My pet owl says his eyes are are aching.

This is the original image she send me.  I don't have anything else.  Sorry. 

[ThaiBunny]

5 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

doubt a large number of expats that have left would even come back now

Do we have any substantiated numbers of expats who have left? How large are the numbers?

[CaptainJack]

31 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Do we have any substantiated numbers of expats who have left? How large are the numbers?

No, none at all. Maybe someone here may have an estimate? My question/observation was hypothetical.  Really,  a question,  not a statement.   I know for myself,  the only reason I would return is to be with my girlfriend.   Thailand lost all it's appeal when the sum total of my issues living there exceeded the rewards.   If not for her, I'd never even think of returning. 

[bowerboy]

6 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

My old girlfriend,  a Marketing Professional working in the Thai tourist industry yesterday was at the ATTA meeting.   She sent me this breakdown in tourist numbers. I think I would be inclined to believe this information,  as it is not some news media product.   

 

As you can imagine,  she is not happy,  working 14 hour days just trying to stay afloat.   

 

Thailand has become it's own worse enemy now on so many levels,  I doubt a large number of expats that have left would even come back now, even if the government rolled back the new immigration rules.  And probably the same for the tourists.  They are gone.

 

 

Thanks for posting...interesting figures

[soalbundy]

On 7/23/2019 at 3:08 PM, Cake Monster said:

Its not just the expensive Baht.

The buying power of the Baht in Thailand has also eroded measurably, which means the Tourists are hammered two ways

Thailand has to face up to the fact at it is no longer a desirable destination for many people, due to the pressure on their spending budgets for Holidays.

The more astute are now heading to places like Cambodia, Vietnam or Europe for their Vacations,where they can get more bang for the Buck.

  

 

The average tourist, especially first timers, wouldn't know about the average cost of things here, they would concentrate on the flight and hotel/resort costs, when they are here..... well that is a different story but then they are here and have no choice

[pookondee]

A downward trend of 9-10% per month for the year (to me) doesnt suggest tourists "have gone" and Thailand is kapoot though.

People have said the same in the past, and the following years made us liars when numbers then proceeded to sky rocket.

 

I do agree with the opinion that Thailand needs a big wake up call from this Bบllshit

"Thailand everyones dream destination" 

attitude thats constantly drummed into

them though.

 

The trouble with militiary style propaganda and nationalism is..

they will never give up on it!

 

Even if hell freezed over and there was no tourists at all, they wouldnt still deny it, 

and anyway, it would still all be the farangs fault.

 

They'd tell the people that farang countries have failed and people cant afford to travel, instead of ever suggesting anything could have been of their own doing.

 

 

 

[CaptainJack]

1 minute ago, pookondee said:

 

Am i reading something wrong here?

The box at the top shows figures in July

down from 466k to 292k and records only a drop of some 6%.

???

I know. Just understand.  I'm only sharing what she shared with me.  As many have already said,  this is the most messed up system of government and fact reporting I think most if us have ever witnessed.  Who knows what is real?  It was all I had to offer to the topic....