Why is Thailand making it so difficult to retire

[Megascott]

I just extended my Retirement VISA for another year. No big deal. I went to the Uni foreign studies for any translations (to get the yellow book) Didn't need any translations for the Retirement VISA. (no kids) and I keep copies of everything organised for next year. Just have to do the 90d reports. Also while I was at it, I bought a multiple Reentry stamped in my passport, because I will be doing some travel in the next 12mo. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Megascott

[pookondee]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Why,

400k/year is more than 4x what most Thai families live on.

 

But poor Thai families live on somtum, live in 3000 bht/month rentals, dont turn on aircon, drink Lao khao instead of red wine,

pay Thai prices, get 30baht healthcare and dont have visa costs.

[Thaidream]

42 minutes ago, Gumballl said:

 

P.S. Back to my original line of thought, if 400K is too much for you to swallow, please go home. Even with that paltry amount, it is unlikely the US gov't will even allow for your Thai wife to immigrate (and this has nothing to do with the current administration!).

Actually- it is easier to bring your Thai wife to the US than you stay in Thailand.

 

The income requirement to bring a spouse to the US without children is $21.137 and that can be met by either cash; a job or other assets such as a house.  In fact- someone else other than you can provide the documentation of their income if the applicant does not have enough.

 

Upon issuance of the Visa- and entry to the US- your wife becomes a Permanent Residence and can work; be eligible for all  benefits availabe to American citizens. There is only one Immigration visit and once the PR is final- no more Immigration visits or paperwork.

 

Unfortunately, there is no reciprocity in Thailand- I have been married for 15 years- each year I have to show 400,000 Baht  or an income of 40K per month plus tax receipts if working in Thailand. I have to do this each year and in some Immigration offices I need witneses and more pictures each year- ad infinitum.  I am never accordd Perrmanent Residence. I can't own land and cannot pay into the Thai social Security System unless working in Thailand.  I will always be considered a temporary visitor .  Every 90 days I report again to Immigration. Every Time I travel abroad- I have 24 hours to do a new TM 30 at Immigration.

 

So much for fair and equitable treatment ...

 

 

[Megascott]

1 hour ago, tingtongtourist said:

OR it could be their simple explanation is the truest..

they just checking people have 800k in the bank instead of lieing about it through a BS embassy letter or agent.

 

I dont know of many countries that let you in if your flat broke unless you are refugee and come in a leaky boat of course.

 

and really 800k baht is not a lot. 

 

its a decent hospital bill, 3 month living expense, and ticket home if you should have some bad run of luck and need to get out.

 

Many posters say they wouldnt dare to live here without at least

1-2million in backup, and i tend to agree with them 

This is true, no Immigration Laws were changed, if the Consulate had just continued issuing income guarantee letters things would be same same. The old timers have it hardest, some pensions from 10 years ago don't pay out 65k thb and on a fixed income, where are these guys going to find even 400k for show money. 

[Gumballl]

44 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Why,

400k/year is more than 4x what most Thai families live on.

 

Perhaps the amount is sufficient for the farang to close out affairs and head home. Thais do not have to head anywhere, hence they continue living in their place, whether for good or bad.

 

P.S. When was the last time you ever went to a club, a movie, or even Disney Land, and were asked to pay an entry fee? Think of the 400K as an entry fee. Get over it; it is not a large sum of money!

[Benmart]

On 7/23/2019 at 2:17 PM, JimmyTheMook said:

Ain't nobody forcing you to stay.

 

 

This response does nothing to answer the OPs post. It merely adds a sour measure of smugness to a worn out recipe, that is overseasoned with triteness.

[Gumballl]

31 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Actually- it is easier to bring your Thai wife to the US than you stay in Thailand.

 

The income requirement to bring a spouse to the US without children is $21.137 and that can be met by either cash; a job or other assets such as a house.  In fact- someone else other than you can provide the documentation of their income if the applicant does not have enough.

 

Upon issuance of the Visa- and entry to the US- your wife becomes a Permanent Residence and can work; be eligible for all  benefits availabe to American citizens. There is only one Immigration visit and once the PR is final- no more Immigration visits or paperwork.

 

Unfortunately, there is no reciprocity in Thailand- I have been married for 15 years- each year I have to show 400,000 Baht  or an income of 40K per month plus tax receipts if working in Thailand. I have to do this each year and in some Immigration offices I need witneses and more pictures each year- ad infinitum.  I am never accordd Perrmanent Residence. I can't own land and cannot pay into the Thai social Security System unless working in Thailand.  I will always be considered a temporary visitor .  Every 90 days I report again to Immigration. Every Time I travel abroad- I have 24 hours to do a new TM 30 at Immigration.

 

So much for fair and equitable treatment ...

 

 

I have not checked on the income requirements for the US in a long time; I recall it was $23K, but perhaps you are correct. The basis for the requirement is to ensure that the immigrant does not become a ward of the state.

 

A newly wed foreign spouse would be granted Conditional Residency (CR) to the US, not PR. Only after 2 years of marriage would PR be granted (providing conditions are met). CR and PR persons are able to work; they pay income, social security, and medicare taxes.

 

Once the foreigner is granted PR, they can then apply for US citizenship once they have spent a total of 5 years in the US. If they opt not to apply for citizenship, then they must REAPPLY for PR after 10 years. It costs $540+.

 

In as far as benefits, I am not certain (perhaps due to my family's circumstances) as to what you are referring to. Yes, my spouse may collect Social Security benefits once she has completed 40 quarters (i.e. 10 years) of work and paying fair share of taxes, and has reached the age of 62+. But upon arriving on day 1, nada, zilch.

 

I never said things were equitable (with respect to Thailand). If I had been the wiser, I would never have involved myself with Thailand. It used to be an exotic place; now it is just a mere place, but with little tangible reasons to be here.

 

I never opted to work here; pay is too minuscule to what I can earn elsewhere. I'm sorry if your prospects did not measure to be the same as mine.

 

Btw, you should have applied for Thai PR after working 3 years in the LOS. There are hoops to jump through, including speaking/writing Thai, but surely after 15 years you are fluent with the language.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Gumballl

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, Gumballl said:

Btw, you should have applied for Thai PR after working 3 years in the LOS. There are hoops to jump through, including speaking/writing Thai, but surely after 15 years you are fluent with the language.

English teachers don't earn enough, you need a job with a full time contract (not yearly), and it costs a lot of money.

Edited July 24, 2019 by BritManToo

[arithai12]

33 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Actually- it is easier to bring your Thai wife to the US than you stay in Thailand.

 

The income requirement to bring a spouse to the US without children is $21.137 and that can be met by either cash; a job or other assets such as a house.  In fact- someone else other than you can provide the documentation of their income if the applicant does not have enough.

 

Upon issuance of the Visa- and entry to the US- your wife becomes a Permanent Residence and can work; be eligible for all  benefits availabe to American citizens. There is only one Immigration visit and once the PR is final- no more Immigration visits or paperwork.

 

Unfortunately, there is no reciprocity in Thailand- I have been married for 15 years- each year I have to show 400,000 Baht  or an income of 40K per month plus tax receipts if working in Thailand. I have to do this each year and in some Immigration offices I need witneses and more pictures each year- ad infinitum.  I am never accordd Perrmanent Residence. I can't own land and cannot pay into the Thai social Security System unless working in Thailand.  I will always be considered a temporary visitor .  Every 90 days I report again to Immigration. Every Time I travel abroad- I have 24 hours to do a new TM 30 at Immigration.

 

So much for fair and equitable treatment ...

 

 

You are cutting a few corners... e.g., the 21k USD you mention is a minimum yearly income. In Thailand, you need to deposit 400k once in the bank and keep it there, without any proof of additional income (at least, this is one way). This said, try living in a US city with that money.

 

As for becoming permanent resident, you can become PR in Thailand given a few not unreasonable conditions (eg having paid taxes for 3 consecutive years). If you tried and they didn't give you, perhaps there are reasons? Just as not everybody gets PR in the USA.

 

Owning land is one big difference where you are correct, there are reasons too (imagine all the rich foreigners running to buy), but you can lease for 90 years and if you have family/children who are Thai they can buy - if you don't, then 90 years should be enough.

 

btw, another small difference worth mentioning: the ease with which one, anyone, can find a wife and settle down in Thailand.

[Leaver]

23 hours ago, dbrenn said:

That sums it up. 

 

It's harsh, but you should never make plans that extend beyond the visa expiry date that is stamped in your passport. To do otherwise is running the risk of disappointment if the rules change, as they do.

 

Doesn't only apply to Thailand either, unfortunately. 

That is the main reason I will not buy a property here.

 

Ownership of land aside, sure, they will let you buy a property here, but with a simple change in the visa laws and/or requirements, you may no longer be able to live in your own property / Thailand, and who are you going to complain to?  ????

Edited July 24, 2019 by Leaver

[Thaidream]

31 minutes ago, Gumballl said:

never opted to work here; pay is too minuscule to what I can earn elsewhere. I'm sorry if your prospects did not measure to be the same as mine.

 

Btw, you should have applied for Thai PR after working 3 years in the LOS. There are hoops to jump through, including speaking/writing Thai, but surely after 15 years you are fluent with the language.

I only spent a few years actually working in Thailand and realized what a waste of time it was and went back to the US and made some real money.  I first came 50 years ago and  set a goal to retire in Thailand which I have done with a suitable pension. I had planned to apply for PR as it was once available to those married to a Thai without any work involved.  

 

Thailand is an enigma- through the years there have been ups and downs  and a variety of Governments thate come and go.  The last 5-10 years have seen a degradation of the culture; the environment and even the  innate friendliness of the people.  I try and remember that while I can always go to greener pastures- the Thais mostly cannot.  They have to grin and bear it.

 

I havne only seen a few foreigners in Thailand that are truly fluent- reading, writing and speaking. While I can converse  in Thai- I am not fluent and never will be.

 

Your info re the US Entry  system for Thai spouses is spot on. It was changed after my Thai wife had already entered and immediatly granted Permanent Residency. In fact- when we entered hawaii as her initial entry point- she was handed a 'Green Card'.  Subsuquent change made to a 2 year waiting period then the Permanent Residency.

 

It would be nice if their was some reciprocity with Thailand-  the current system is not equitable.  I can be married to a Thai for 100 years and still have to go through the  'dance' each year.

 

 

 

 

[Gumballl]

40 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

English teachers don't earn enough, you need a job with a full time contract (not yearly), and it costs a lot of money.

No disrespect, but this explains your bitterness towards Thailand.

 

Not that you want my opinion, but it is not Thailand that is at fault... it is your choice of where (and in particular when) you chose to perform your work/profession.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Gumballl

[jinners]

On 7/23/2019 at 2:17 PM, JimmyTheMook said:

Ain't nobody forcing you to stay.

 

 

I was going to write something that may be deemed as offensive but thought better of it

 

[griffon2011]

6 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Each change immigration make bodes ill for the future. I'm looking to get out....Vietnam or Philippines.

Someone earlier made a comment about not making nay plans beyond the date of your visa....but people who are retiring need to be able to plan and not worry about whether the next change will be the one that forces them out. 

I know a lot of decent farangs from UK and Oz who are suffering with the currency movements. The insurance requirements will tip them over the edge I think.

I can deal with the financial and currency issues but it is the uncertainty of future immigration or health insurance requirements that made me think about leaving after 10 years. I even looked into relocating recently, getting a couple of quotes to move household goods, visas etc.  However, after a very unpleasant visit to CW immigration last week it is no longer a matter of if but when I will leave as the first thing I did when I returned home from that $hitshow was book a flight to Vietnam for next Monday. I didn't make this decision lightly because I have been happily retired here and cannot remember a day when I failed to get a nice smile, good service or some act of kindness from a Thai person.  And as I am sure someone will quickly point out, no one is forcing me to stay here.  

[Muzarella]

Immigration requirements were changing in every ASEAN country on the last 10 years, going in the same way like in Thailand now. If during your 25 years in Thailand you didn't save enough every month to have now a good savings account on your bank, a business, or something to sell to show income, at least you need to get ready to pay good money to a visa service to resolve your visa situation every year. Just that.

[Suradit69]

On July 23, 2019 at 2:10 PM, Isaanbiker said:

OP, you're damn right with your post. Especially, when you've been here for so long, paid taxes, bought a house, cars and motorcycles and spent a hell lot of money.

 

  The reason for might be that we're not really wanted, but our money is.

If you've been working in Thailand for many years, then all or most of the money you've spent was earned in Thailand and spent on yourselves. Were you expecting a special award for doing what people normally do ... work, pay taxes & bills and spend the rest on whatever you want?

 

" We"re really not wanted but our money is."

 

why would any government want foreigners to stay in their country other than for some economic gain? Does your country want foreigner to stay their because they make the landscape more attractive?

 

Some of the people who choose to live here seem to be desperately needy      and entitled.

[Martyp]

7 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

If you've been working in Thailand for many years, then all or most of the money you've spent was earned in Thailand and spent on yourselves. Were you expecting a special award for doing what people normally do ... work, pay taxes & bills and spend the rest on whatever you want?

 

" We"re really not wanted but our money is."

 

why would any government want foreigners to stay in their country other than for some economic gain? Does your country want foreigner to stay their because they make the landscape more attractive?

 

Some of the people who choose to live here seem to be desperately needy      and entitled.

In fact governments generally don’t want people who are a drain on their country. I’m not sure if it is true or significant but much of the proposed insurance requirement is often blamed on foreigners skipping out on hospital bills. In the US there is much opposition to immigrants social services systems. Most governments welcome people to enter, stay, and contribute in some way and to not be a burden.

[dbrenn]

2 hours ago, UKresonant said:

Yes well said, the word "retirement"in the Visa and Extension offerings, perhaps creates an illusion (perhaps not in the past the way it was administered), most folk hopefully will view retirement lasting for many years with a good degree of continuity.

I think it is like in the UK, many who have the opportunity to build a nice pension early on, but as they know there is a "State pension" they put it as a low priority, as they think the State Pension will magically may meet their aspirations, without knowing any detail, but for most it won't, and they don't realise  for many years.

How many Retires would now up-sticks, and move here if they gave it detailed scrutiny with their head, with the heart aspect  on pause. But Thailand can still give a magical first impression, that you fall in love with....

It's a miss-match of expectation and reality that causes a lot of grief IMHO.

Very true.

 

[Leaver]

11 minutes ago, Martyp said:

In fact governments generally don’t want people who are a drain on their country. I’m not sure if it is true or significant but much of the proposed insurance requirement is often blamed on foreigners skipping out on hospital bills. In the US there is much opposition to immigrants social services systems. Most governments welcome people to enter, stay, and contribute in some way and to not be a burden.

You get the odd young person come off a motorbike and have to ring mum and dad for the medical bill, and if they can't afford it, the usual Go Fund Me request. 

 

Look at all the retirees here.  How many of them skip out on medical bills?

 

It's well known they will let you die in the waiting room unless you pay them to start treatment.

 

Those skipping out on medical bills are a very small percentage.

 

Now, about the overcharging of foreigners for medical treatment...........????

Edited July 24, 2019 by Leaver

[Martyp]

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You get the odd young person come off a motorbike and have to ring mum and dad for the medical bill, and if they can't afford it, the usual Go Fund Me request. 

 

Look at all the retirees here.  How many of them skip out on medical bills?

 

It's well known they will let you die in the waiting room unless you pay them to start treatment.

Actually I think I’ve gotten better emergency room care here than I’ve gotten in the US. Much less expensive too. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Martyp

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Gumballl said:

Not that you want my opinion, but it is not Thailand that is at fault... it is your choice of where (and in particular when) you chose to perform your work/profession.

Never worked as a teacher in Thailand, they couldn't afford me.

Did work as a high school teacher in the Uk for a while, they paid me 120 pounds/day (6,000bht back then)

I was already retired by then, earned my pension in another profession.

Edited July 24, 2019 by BritManToo

[Martyp]

26 minutes ago, Uptooyoo said:

That's great. You want to teach until you die. But there are people who don't want to work forever; some can't because of failing health. They moved to Thailand at a young age and haven't contributed to any retirement plans. What do they do now?

Not having contributed to a retirement plan is pretty much the majority of the US population. Not unique to Thailand. 

[BritManToo]

Just now, Martyp said:

Not having contributed to a retirement plan is pretty much the majority of the US population. Not unique to Thailand. 

Creating Thai children is my retirement plan.

Two more years of university then the first installment should start paying off.

[RBOP]

8 hours ago, Seeall said:

May I ask what bank and account you are using to gain that rate?

I often think about it but as I have not seen a rate that high.... AND I am always wary the account type or some other silly detail will make it not accepted net RV extension ....  Yes I see the title "accessable funds" is all we need, however, depends if the clerk had a nice coffee or not...

Thanks all.

Sure. Its the largest bank in Thailand. Fixed account 11 months.

[Uptooyoo]

3 hours ago, Martyp said:

Not having contributed to a retirement plan is pretty much the majority of the US population. Not unique to Thailand. 

But they've paid into social security, it's mandatory. Average monthly check is about $1,400. Not much, but you wouldn't starve.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Uptooyoo

[Date Masamune]

But they've paid into social security, it's mandatory. Average monthly check is about $1,400. Not much, but you wouldn't starve.

My monthly basic spend in Thailand is way less than that. I could survive on a few hundred dollars per month.

[ubonjoe]

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