40K-ish salary and NON-O visa question

[problemfarang]

Hi,

This question is from one of my friends.

 

He told me that he has salary of 32,000 Thai baht plus 8,000 house accommodation. Which makes 40K. Now the thing is on his contract there's no sign of that 8,000 house accommodation but its written on his salary / payment slip from his work with all stamps and all. And yes hes getting it. (lot of info on this slip, such as; salary/tax/house accomm./etc.). He has work permit too. But he lives in another city from his wife just because of work. He's married for 6-7 years and living in Thailand for 14 years, no children.

 

Now chain of questions starts:

1) Can he apply for 1 year extension of his NON-O visa with this kind of salary payment? He's tired of going to another country and come back to Thailand on the same day every 90 days. And yes he will not get NON-B just to avoid immigration hell. If its possible:

 a) What documents he needs?

 b) Which immigration he needs to go to? (work area immigration or house area immigration)

 c) Wife should be at the immigration when doing all the paper work first time?

 d) Does he need to go to immigration for 90 days report and which immigration? (work area immigration or house area immigration)

    -If wife needed, does he need her every 90 days report?

 e) Is this thing costs any money / fee?

 

Please feel free to add any extra info he needs. In my opinion he cannot apply just because of salary 32,000. I think immigration doesn't care about the house accommodation. 

 

thanks a lot for the help

 

[fishtank]

He needs to show 40,000 Baht a month.

His Wife would have to live with him and go with him every time he applies for 12 month extension.

1,900 Baht fee.

He would apply in the area he lives.

He would do 90 day reports at the same office.

Edited July 23, 2019 by fishtank

[problemfarang]

50 minutes ago, fishtank said:

He needs to show 40,000 Baht a month.

His Wife would have to live with him and go with him every time he applies for 12 month extension.

1,900 Baht fee.

He would apply in the area he lives.

He would do 90 day reports at the same office.

 

thanks for the info. Well like i said that 40K is 32,000 salary + 8,000 house accommodation. But in his payment slip it shows all his income but like i said before in his contract its only 32K. So which one they look at? Also no its impossible that he can live with the wife because his wife is a school director in another city and hes working in another city. They come and check? She can go with him to the imm. every 12 months. What about the 90 days? he has to do 90 days with the wife?

Edited July 23, 2019 by problemfarang

[problemfarang]

Well also i forgot to mention that, after all the cuts from his salary (tax cut/government health insurance cut) he gets 38K 

 

So its like yes his salary is 40K but with the cuts it drops to 38K

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, problemfarang said:

Well also i forgot to mention that, after all the cuts from his salary (tax cut/government health insurance cut) he gets 38K 

 

So its like yes his salary is 40K but with the cuts it drops to 38K

It is gross annual income (minimum of 480k baht) that really counts. He will be proving his income by way of tax payment receipts and his annual tax return for last year if he was working then.

A housing allowance is considered income.

[problemfarang]

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is gross annual income (minimum of 480k baht) that really counts. He will be proving his income by way of tax payment receipts and his annual tax return for last year if he was working then.

A housing allowance is considered income.

 

Thank you Ubon. Please answer some other questions also if you can:

1) Wife needs to live together as someone mentioned before or not? ( due to his wife work they are not in the same city, shes a director of a government school). I dont think they need to live together. If so do you think they will accept about her work?

2) Wife needed for every 12 months no problem, but for every 90 days too?

3) From your answer i take it as he can and able to extend his non-o visa, yes?

 

thanks a lot for your answers

[White Tiger]

I am in pretty much the same situation. Currently on a marriage extension, last year I showed income using a letter from the embassy.  I am handled by the immigration office in Chaiyaphum province.

 

I did my 90 day report a week ago. In December I have to make my new application for a 1 year extension. So when I was at the immigration office I asked them about how to show my income in December. I told them I had a salary in Thailand of 40k THB.  They told me that the only proof of income that was acceptable to them was an embassy letter certifying my income or a bank statement showing the 400K THB lump sum savings.

 

I said I worked in Thailand and have a work permit. That I have 40k THB of salary each month. That I can show a bank statement showing 40k THB going into my bank every month. They said that's not acceptable to them. If I want to show a monthly income then only an embassy letter will be acceptable to them. (Chaiyaphum office).  They gave a sheet of paper with these requirements printed on them and told me that "it is the law". 

 

Seems to me I will have to take steps to make sure I have the 400k THB cash lump sum in the bank to avoid getting into any arguments with them in December about proof of income. Or I simply give up on the Chaiyaphum office and the 90 day reports, and instead make a new visa at Savannakhet and do a border hop every 90 days in future.

 

(NB. My Thai salary is actually just a little shy of 40k THB per month, but I transfer money from the UK every month to make the amount going into my bank every month exceed the magic 40k per month figure.  Seems I've been wasting my time - at least as far as Chaiyaphum immigration office is concerned).

 

 

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, White Tiger said:

(NB. My Thai salary is actually just a little shy of 40k THB per month, but I transfer money from the UK every month to make the amount going into my bank every month exceed the magic 40k per month figure.  Seems I've been wasting my time - at least as far as Chaiyaphum immigration office is concerned).

Others may be able to give a better answer but, the fact that your salary is below 40k per month could be the problem. However, you should not be using bank statements to prove your salary - you should be producing your tax receipts.

 

To the best of my knowledge, if your salary was 40k per month (gross) and you could provide tax receipts proving that, you would be meeting the requirements and would be able to take the matter up with the Immigration head office in Bangkok.  Alternatively, you could use a lawyer - a friend was having a similar problem with Korat Immigration - this year he used a lawyer and his application was approved.

 

I am guessing here but I'm not sure if you can qualify with part earnings/part money from the UK. I suggest this is the root of your problems.

 

However you say your salary is 'just a little shy of 40K' - is that after tax?  The income requirement is 40K gross. You may already be earning enough.

Edited July 25, 2019 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, White Tiger said:

Or I simply give up on the Chaiyaphum office and the 90 day reports, and instead make a new visa at Savannakhet and do a border hop every 90 days in future.

Whilst you can. When they change to Evisa, if nothing changes between now and then, you won't be able to get a non o there. In your position, if your salary is correct, I would be taking them on and getting it sorted in the time you have. Isaan Lawyers sorted my mates problem - not a million miles away.

Edited July 25, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Gumballl]

Cannot the combined income of both spouses be used to satisfy the income requirements?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Gumballl said:

Cannot the combined income of both spouses be used to satisfy the income requirements?

Only the husbands income can be used for an extension based upon marriage to a Thai.

The income of both has not been possible since 2008.

[fishtank]

1 hour ago, Gumballl said:

Cannot the combined income of both spouses be used to satisfy the income requirements?

Nope. Husband only.

[White Tiger]

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Others may be able to give a better answer but, the fact that your salary is below 40k per month could be the problem. However, you should not be using bank statements to prove your salary - you should be producing your tax receipts.

 

To the best of my knowledge, if your salary was 40k per month (gross) and you could provide tax receipts proving that, you would be meeting the requirements and would be able to take the matter up with the Immigration head office in Bangkok.  Alternatively, you could use a lawyer - a friend was having a similar problem with Korat Immigration - this year he used a lawyer and his application was approved.

 

I am guessing here but I'm not sure if you can qualify with part earnings/part money from the UK. I suggest this is the root of your problems.

 

However you say your salary is 'just a little shy of 40K' - is that after tax?  The income requirement is 40K gross. You may already be earning enough.

Thanks, but no your guess is not the root of my problem - immigration do not know my Thai salary is a little below 40K THB per month. I didn't tell them that. I told them my salary was 40K THB per month and I told them I have bank statements to show the money going in. 

 

I didn't tell them I have part Thai salary and part UK income transferred to Thailand, because I didn't want to make it over complicated at this stage. I let them think the full 40k was Thai salary, to see what they said.  They weren't interested. Told me the only evidence of monthly income they will accept is a letter from the embassy.

 

I agree that if I decide to argue this with them and take a lawyer along with me that immigration would then probably back down. But frankly I'm not sure it's worth the expense or the hassle.  I don't want to fall out with Chaiyaphum office, even if I do win the argument.

 

For info here's a copy of the document Chaiyaphum immigration gave to me and which they say "is the law". 

Thai Immigration Visa Requirements July 2019.pdf

Edited July 26, 2019 by White Tiger
Added copy of document

[White Tiger]

13 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Whilst you can. When they change to Evisa, if nothing changes between now and then, you won't be able to get a non o there. In your position, if your salary is correct, I would be taking them on and getting it sorted in the time you have. Isaan Lawyers sorted my mates problem - not a million miles away.

What is Evisa & when are they changing to it?   How would that mean a non o (marriage) will no longer be issued?  Thanks ????

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, White Tiger said:

I agree that if I decide to argue this with them and take a lawyer along with me that immigration would then probably back down. But frankly I'm not sure it's worth the expense or the hassle.  I don't want to fall out with Chaiyaphum office, even if I do win the argument.

 

For info here's a copy of the document Chaiyaphum immigration gave to me and which they say "is the law". 

When my mate's lawyer did the application there was no confrontation, the application was simply presented and accepted.  As far as I know, no mention of the problems of the previous year was made - and I think, rightly so. That would simply have caused loss of face and further problems.  However, I have experience of using a lawyer from the same company to register a Usufruct at my local land office.  The (female) manager was not happy about some thing or other but the lawyer calmly put her right and we left with the chanotte duly displaying the registration of the Usufruct.  Not exactly sure where lawyers stand in the Thai pecking order but there was no kow towwing going on so I'd guess a lawyer is either equal to or above a land office manager.

 

The document you have provided from Chaiyaphum Immigration is, I believe, there own version of the rules.  I don't have the actual rules but as I am sure UbonJoe will confirm (and may be able to link you to the rules) - for an extension based on marriage for someone working in Thailand, the salary requirement is 40,000 per month gross and the evidence is not your bank account, its tax receipts.

 

As far as I know, you can also apply if your income is from abroad - in which case, I believe it is much the same as the retirment visa rules where the income has to be proved to have come from abroad by your bank statements and a letter from the bank confirming the Foreign Exchange Transfers or confirmation by your embassy - depending on where you come from.  That's my understanding of how that is being applied but I am open to correction.

 

You seem to be mixing the 2 methods which as I said originally, may be the root of your problems.

Edited July 26, 2019 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, White Tiger said:

What is Evisa & when are they changing to it?   How would that mean a non o (marriage) will no longer be issued?  Thanks ????

Evisa is the new Electronic Visa application system. It has already been installed at some embassies - London is one. As far as I know, the intention is to roll it out to all embassies/consulates over time.

 

With Evisa, there are no multi entry o visas anymore and you have to be either a national of the country in which you apply or have proof of legal residence there.  In effect, if you work in a country but do not actually have residence there, you cannot apply in that country and will have to return to your own country to apply. The same applies for those who are living in Thailand on a multi o (marriage) and travel out once per year for a new visa. For now, I believe that Savannakhet is still on the old system and still accepting applications for multi o's from non residents but I suspect that will change at all points soon.

 

Unless things change, if you are applying for a Non O visa based on marriage to a Thai wife at an embassy/consulate that is on E-visa, you will be granted a single entry giving you a 90 day stay - not a multi entry.

Edited July 26, 2019 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

Out of interest, given that some English teachers don't earn 40k per month - how do they meet the income requirement? Are there special rules for teachers?

[overherebc]

20 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Out of interest, given that some English teachers don't earn 40k per month - how do they meet the income requirement? Are there special rules for teachers?

Yes. Think so.

[White Tiger]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

When my mate's lawyer did the application there was no confrontation, the application was simply presented and accepted.  As far as I know, no mention of the problems of the previous year was made - and I think, rightly so. That would simply have caused loss of face and further problems.  However, I have experience of using a lawyer from the same company to register a Usufruct at my local land office.  The (female) manager was not happy about some thing or other but the lawyer calmly put her right and we left with the chanotte duly displaying the registration of the Usufruct.  Not exactly sure where lawyers stand in the Thai pecking order but there was no kow towwing going on so I'd guess a lawyer is either equal to or above a land office manager.

 

The document you have provided from Chaiyaphum Immigration is, I believe, there own version of the rules.  I don't have the actual rules but as I am sure UbonJoe will confirm (and may be able to link you to the rules) - for an extension based on marriage for someone working in Thailand, the salary requirement is 40,000 per month gross and the evidence is not your bank account, its tax receipts.

 

As far as I know, you can also apply if your income is from abroad - in which case, I believe it is much the same as the retirment visa rules where the income has to be proved to have come from abroad by your bank statements and a letter from the bank confirming the Foreign Exchange Transfers or confirmation by your embassy - depending on where you come from.  That's my understanding of how that is being applied but I am open to correction.

 

You seem to be mixing the 2 methods which as I said originally, may be the root of your problems.

Thanks - yes I completely agree the document from Chaiyaphum immigration is their own way of interpreting the rules.  I know it's not the legal position. This is why it's so frustrating. 

 

I've also used Isan Lawyers before, many years ago, for drafting and then registering a Usufruct and for making wills in Thailand.  I agree they seem to be pretty good people to work with.  They had quite an argument when they came to my local tessabahn/ampur office because Kaset Sombun didn't want to register the Usufruct.  We had to go back twice (different days) to speak to different people but Issan lawyers eventually won the day! I was delighted with their service.

 

Thanks for your comment about income from abroad. I'm not interested in using that route. I don't transfer enough to Thailand every month to satisfy the 40K requirement and I would find that difficult given my financial commitments in the UK. (If we could still use the embassy letter then I would have no difficulty satisfying the embassy that I have the required income and no difficulty in obtaining the embassy letter. Most of my income is sourced in the UK but it is also used in the UK. I only transfer cash to Thailand in small amounts and when needed). 

 

Thanks, but I'm not mixing up the 2 methods. When I spoke to immigration about this a week ago I said to them that my income is 100% sourced in Thailand from a Thai salary.  I told them that my Thai salary is 40,000THB per month.  I asked if my Thai salary, and my Thai bank statements showing that 40,000THB salary being paid in, would be sufficient to demonstrate an income of 40,000THB per month for the purpose of granting me an extension of stay based on marriage.  (I said nothing to them about an income or money coming from the UK).  They said no.

 

 

[White Tiger]

50 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Yes. Think so.

Many are probably on B Visas. I entered the country on a Non Imm O (marriage) visa and my stays here have been extended in recent years on grounds of being married to a Thai, not on grounds of employment. 

 

One of the options open to me would be to extend my stay on grounds of employment (in plain English, think of it as switching to a B visa instead of a marriage visa). I prefer to be here on grounds of marriage because if I stop working my permission to stay isn't impacted.

[Myran]

On 7/24/2019 at 8:54 PM, problemfarang said:

 

Thank you Ubon. Please answer some other questions also if you can:

1) Wife needs to live together as someone mentioned before or not? ( due to his wife work they are not in the same city, shes a director of a government school). I dont think they need to live together. If so do you think they will accept about her work?

2) Wife needed for every 12 months no problem, but for every 90 days too?

3) From your answer i take it as he can and able to extend his non-o visa, yes?

 

thanks a lot for your answers

1) He's getting the visa based on living in Thailand with his wife, so yeah, they "need" to live together. But different offices have different ways of checking it. Some will visit their house to check that they're living together, some require them to bring a witness to the immigration office to say that they're living together, others will interview neighbors when they visit their house to check if they're living together. He might get away with it, he might not.

 

2) Not needed for 90 days, but after they have successfully handed in their application (which might not be accepted the first time they come to the immigration office), he'll get an Under Consideration stamp in his passport, and will have to come back for the actual extension stamp after one month. The wife might need to come with him then, depends on the office.

[White Tiger]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Evisa is the new Electronic Visa application system. It has already been installed at some embassies - London is one. As far as I know, the intention is to roll it out to all embassies/consulates over time.

 

With Evisa, there are no multi entry o visas anymore and you have to be either a national of the country in which you apply or have proof of legal residence there.  In effect, if you work in a country but do not actually have residence there, you cannot apply in that country and will have to return to your own country to apply. The same applies for those who are living in Thailand on a multi o (marriage) and travel out once per year for a new visa. For now, I believe that Savannakhet is still on the old system and still accepting applications for multi o's from non residents but I suspect that will change at all points soon.

 

Unless things change, if you are applying for a Non O visa based on marriage to a Thai wife at an embassy/consulate that is on E-visa, you will be granted a single entry giving you a 90 day stay - not a multi entry.

Thank you. That's interesting and worth knowing about.  I guess it would mean a 90 day single entry (marriage) followed by a 60 day (2 month) extension in Thailand from your local immigration office, followed by a further 2 week extension from your local immigration office. Then another trip to Savannakhet to start again with a new 90 day single entry marriage visa.   (Edit: That's if they let you apply at Savannakhet after everything goes EVisa. If you have to return to the UK to do this - i.e for me my home country - it becomes a much bigger & more expensive exercise every 5 months or so.)

Edited July 26, 2019 by White Tiger

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, White Tiger said:

Many are probably on B Visas. I entered the country on a Non Imm O (marriage) visa and my stays here have been extended in recent years on grounds of being married to a Thai, not on grounds of employment. 

OK, yes I agree that many are on B visas but as far as I know the income requirement for a B visa is even more - 50K per month.

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, White Tiger said:

Thanks, but I'm not mixing up the 2 methods. When I spoke to immigration about this a week ago I said to them that my income is 100% sourced in Thailand from a Thai salary.  I told them that my Thai salary is 40,000THB per month.  I asked if my Thai salary, and my Thai bank statements showing that 40,000THB salary being paid in, would be sufficient to demonstrate an income of 40,000THB per month for the purpose of granting me an extension of stay based on marriage.  (I said nothing to them about an income or money coming from the UK).  They said no.

Then I think you have a real problem. If you decide to fight this, I believe you will have to do so through Bangkok. They will almost certainly apply the rules correctly - which are that you must prove your Thai income with tax receipts. If your salary is less than 40k gross, you won't qualify. 

 

The text below (from a police order on TV) illustrates that your income should be proved through tax receipts - it takes a little reading to get it but its there.

 

If the Thai version is a crap as the English version - I'm not surpised that immigration offices get it wrong.

 

However, as more knowledgeable members will I am sure, confirm, the requirements are:

 

a). Income from abroad (in the case where your embassy won't certify) - 40K proved by bank transfers from abroad and a letter from the bank.

b). Income from employment in Thailand - 40K proved by tax receipts.

 

As far as I can see, your office is wrong in asking for bank statements but how you would deal with the shortfall you say you have, I know not - that is if indeed you do have a shortfall. As I stated before, UbonJoe has stated that the 40k is gross. If you are just a little short of 40K net, maybe your income is actually over 40k - just going by your wording that you are only a little short and top it up with funds from abroad.

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, White Tiger said:

I told them that my Thai salary is 40,000THB per month.  I asked if my Thai salary, and my Thai bank statements showing that 40,000THB salary being paid in, would be sufficient to demonstrate an income of 40,000THB per month for the purpose of granting me an extension of stay based on marriage.  (I said nothing to them about an income or money coming from the UK).  They said no.

Bank statements for a salary would not be enough and they said no for that reason. You would need to show them a work permit and tax payment receipts to confirm your income. Also you tax return for last year if you were working then.

[KhaoYai]

@ubonjoe

 

Joe, regarding the clarity of the amendment to a police order that I posted a section of above - in the centre column, do you have any idea what (5) and (6) are where it says "In case of (5) Paragraph one and (6)" ?

Edited July 27, 2019 by KhaoYai

[ubonjoe]

46 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Joe, regarding the clarity of the amendment to a police order that I posted a section of above - in the centre column, do you have any idea what (5) and (6) are where it says "In case of (5) Paragraph one and (6)" ?

Clause 2.18 of police order 327/2557 Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand.

"(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
In case the father of mother requests to be under maintenance of children, the age of father or mother must be 50 years of age or over.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.
(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

 

Police order 138/2557 is the supporting documents for the extensions shown in 327/2557.

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

Police order 138/2557 is the supporting documents for the extensions shown in 327/2557.

Thank you for that Joe, I thought that must be the case but was having problems with my PDF viewer so could not read it.

[problemfarang]

On 7/26/2019 at 10:19 PM, Myran said:

1) He's getting the visa based on living in Thailand with his wife, so yeah, they "need" to live together. But different offices have different ways of checking it. Some will visit their house to check that they're living together, some require them to bring a witness to the immigration office to say that they're living together, others will interview neighbors when they visit their house to check if they're living together. He might get away with it, he might not.

 

2) Not needed for 90 days, but after they have successfully handed in their application (which might not be accepted the first time they come to the immigration office), he'll get an Under Consideration stamp in his passport, and will have to come back for the actual extension stamp after one month. The wife might need to come with him then, depends on the office.

thnx for the info, but have some questions or ideas here..

 

actually you get non-o NOT for living together but for married with a thai. (please correct me if im wrong) Although yes i understand they want to check this... But what if they are married like 6-7 years already?

 

and i mentioned that its impossible they can live together because of his wife's work.. Shes a government director at a school in another city.. So its not an option that she can change her school where her husband is BUT government give them a list of schools that need new directors every 2-3 years... 

 

Another thing is if the wife and the husband are thai... yes one of them can apply for the others city.. but if its farang.. no other one cannot apply. interesting.. so they should consider this at immigration. His wife is not like.. has a normal job!

 

thanks

Edited July 27, 2019 by problemfarang

[stament]

Wow this 40k requirement is news to me and concerning. I'm currently on a multi Non-Immigrant that expires on Jan 1st 2020.

 

I am under 50, married with kids and I was under the assumption that I can just show 400k when I go to get the 1 year extension. Is my thinking correct or do I also need to show income? 

 

Hoping the former as the latter will be an issue.