TransferWise and Bangkok Bank

[sumrit]

1 minute ago, JDGRUEN said:

Okay Folks... 

What does the SMART code designation mean... or signify? 

 

Is the SMART transfer designation used by other financial institutions?

 

Or is the SMART code designation used only by Transfer Wise?

 

Thank you in advance 

I asked a similar question in another thread.

 

I know it's used by Thai banks and signifies a local transfer made between two Thai banks within Thailand.

 

I have only known people having that Transfer code when a Thai intermediary bank has transferred funds to another, final destination, Thai bank account that originated from TW.

 

One person replied that they had received a SMART code on their account that didn't relate to an international transfer but was purely an internal transaction. OJAS has posted this transaction information in the post above

 

Personally, I transfer regularly between my own three accounts plus my wife's (2), daughters(2) and Thai family (5) and never seen a SMART on any transaction.

[sumrit]

17 minutes ago, OJAS said:

I have personally found the BKKB London branch service to be about half the cost of SWIFT and around double the cost of TransferWise, based on a number of transfers using all 3 methods which I have performed. And the coveted FTT coding is always guaranteed with the GBP-to-THB-conversion-in-Bangkok option in my experience.

Do the BKKB in Thailand also make a charge when receiving the transfer?

[pontious]

2 hours ago, sumrit said:

As will the UK Banks, using Swift, use an intermediary if required due to technical issues.

I have been using TW for about a year. The previous 10 years I have been using SWIFT from my UK bank. In all of those years not one has come as anything but FTT. I have either been lucky or there have been no technical issues in a zillion swift transfers. The difference with my UK bank is you can instruct, and I have, an intermediary bank is never to be used. Even if means cancelling the transfer. With TW you have no choice. Once it has gone you have no control whatsoever on the route it will take. Tagging, phoning it is all a waste of time. It is all down to luck.  They have, in repeated emails said if there are technical issues

it will automatically choose another routing. They have no control of it.

[Ling Kae]

My TW transfer to my bkkb account last week was coded as a local transfer.  Before it was coded a Foreign transfer.

 

Will it be coded a foreign transfer if I have it sent to my Kasikorn Account?

 

Anyone know for sure?

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Do the BKKB in Thailand also make a charge when receiving the transfer?

I am sure they would charge the standard .25% that has a minimum of 200 baht and a max of 500 baht limit.

[sumrit]

2 minutes ago, Ling Kae said:

My TW transfer to my bkkb account last week was coded as a local transfer.  Before it was coded a Foreign transfer.

 

Will it be coded a foreign transfer if I have it sent to my Kasikorn Account?

 

Anyone know for sure?

Only if it is sent directly to your Kasikorn bank.

 

TW have three partner banks in Thailand. Bangkok, Kasikors and TMB.

 

Firstly you must choose the bank account you want the money sent to. They will use one of those partner banks.

 

You can ask TW to transfer via your preferred bank and most of the time they will oblige, but occasionally they can't and they will use  one of the other two. 

 

Personally, I've used TW for two years but, like everybody else, only needed the FTT coding since January. so I looked through previous transfers to see where the majority went to. At the time I was using the Krungthai bank and all but two transfers last year went via the BKKB so I plumped for them. This year the only transfer that hasn't been FTT has been one at the beginning of this month. That one went via Kasikorn so I went to them and got a Credit Advice Receipt to show that the transfer actually originated from TW. That cost 200 baht.

[wgdanson]

34 minutes ago, sumrit said:

That one went via Kasikorn so I went to them and got a Credit Advice Receipt

Do you mean you went to your local Kasikorn bank, showed them the TWise and your Krungthai paperwork and they gave you the Credit advice? I, and many others are in the same boat with Bkk Bank last month. Thanks.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

TW have three partner banks in Thailand. Bangkok, Kasikors and TMB.

 

 

And actually it may no longer be "three" partners....just "two" consisting of Bangkok Bank and Kaiskorn Bank based on a Transferwise response a fellow ThaiVisa member just received and he relayed it over to me as FYI.  Below is partial quote talking where Transferwise talks it's two payout partners.   

 

And who knows, Bangkok Bank and K-bank could be replaced with other Thai banks in the future....tomorrow, next month, next year, etc., if Transferwise is able to strike-up a better partnering deal with other banks.   

 

Quote

 

As we have integrated more with our two payout partners in Thailand, the payments would now show up as local bank transfers (which they in reality are)

I'd advise to read more about receiving THB payments and how to request FET forms, in order to prove that the payments came from abroad.

You can do so here (https://transferwise.com/help/14/currencies/2932335/thb-transfers#FET).

 

 

[wgdanson]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

 

And actually it may no longer be "three" partners....just "two" consisting of Bangkok Bank and Kaiskorn Bank based on a Transferwise response a fellow ThaiVisa member just received and he relayed it over to me as FYI.  Below is partial quote talking where Transferwise talks it's two payout partners.   

 

And who knows, Bangkok Bank and K-bank could be replaced with other Thai banks in the future....tomorrow, next month, next year, etc., if Transferwise is able to strike-up a better partnering deal with other banks.   

 

 

Well that's Transferwise out of the loop. SWIFT from UK bank, more expensive but FTT for sure.

[Dianne Margaret]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Well that's Transferwise out of the loop. SWIFT from UK bank, more expensive but FTT for sure.

Not necessarily. My overseas bank used an intermediary bank (Citibank in Bangkok) to send my SWIFT transfer from my Australian bank to my Bangkok Bank account and so my international transfer was coded as a domestic transfer!

[wgdanson]

14 minutes ago, Dianne Margaret said:

Not necessarily. My overseas bank used an intermediary bank (Citibank in Bangkok) to send my SWIFT transfer from my Australian bank to my Bangkok Bank account and so my international transfer was coded as a domestic transfer!

My UK bank (Nationwide) has just assured me that any SWIFT from them will go via Midland bank and then to Bkk Bank, in GBP, which will then be exchanged at Bkk Bank's rate at that time. As of now doing it that way as opposed to Transferwise will cost me £18 more plus a small fee at this end, but it will 100% be an FTT.

Edited July 26, 2019 by wgdanson

[OJAS]

6 hours ago, sumrit said:

Do the BKKB in Thailand also make a charge when receiving the transfer?

Where the GBP-to-THB conversion is performed in Bangkok, yes they do. From the table included in the link stated in my post at #29:-

 

An additional international fee of 0.25% of the transferred amount (minimum 200 baht, maximum 500 baht) will be deducted by Bangkok Bank in Thailand before crediting funds into a recipient account.

Edited July 26, 2019 by OJAS

[Ling Kae]

In the link provided in post #38 it says you can use a SWIFT transfer as payment with TransferWise but the fee will be higher. It will though show a foreign  transfer. The main question is will it give you more money in the end or not.

 

Do a few test runs before confirmation and then do one with your regular bank and see which one gives you more baht in the end.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Ling Kae
Typo

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Well that's Transferwise out of the loop. SWIFT from UK bank, more expensive but FTT for sure.

Even some SWIFT transfers can end up without FTT/International coding....will all depending on the bank routing used by the sender.   I've seen quite a few posts over the years were some bank and government SWIFT transfers receive domestic coding due to how the last leg of the transfer was handled.

 

For example, for those US folks receiving social security and switched to the new International Direct Deposit (IDD) payment method although the Social Security/Federal Reserve Bank of New York is the sender the routing goes as follows:

- Reserve Bank NY to Citibank Ireland

- Citibank Ireland to Citibank Thailand

- Citibank Thailand to Bank of Thailand BahtNet Payment System

- Bank of Thailand Bahtnet System to your Thai bank like Bangkok Bank

 

During the last leg of the transfer within Thailand it picks up Bahtnet coding.  Bahtnet is primarily a domestic transfer system but does directly interface with the SWIFT system.  

 

So, when the payment arrives your Bangkok Bank account the coding is BTN/Bahtnet instead of FTT/International Transfer.  Although the Credit Advice you get from Bangkok bank clearly shows it a transfer from the US and even their SMS of funds arrival says "funds from abroad" the Bangkok Bank head office told me face-to-face in early July they would not include that transfer on the monthly income letter for immigration since it carried Bahtnet coding.  Bahtnet coding is another domestic transfer system like the SMT/SMART coding everyone has been talking about with Transferwise.  SMART is just another Thailand domestic funds transfer system.

[pontious]

For the UK as long as you check with your bank they deal direct with your Thai bank and not a corespondent Thai bank it will always arrive as FTT.

[Tanoshi]

20 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

My UK bank (Nationwide) has just assured me that any SWIFT from them will go via Midland bank and then to Bkk Bank, in GBP, which will then be exchanged at Bkk Bank's rate at that time. As of now doing it that way as opposed to Transferwise will cost me £18 more plus a small fee at this end, but it will 100% be an FTT.

Nationwide charge £20 for a SWIFT transfer

 

Midland bank closed and was acquired by HSBC in the 1990's. (Google Midland bank).

 

HSCB are the clearing intermediary bank involved with the International transfer and will slap another £20 handling charge on your Nationwide account a couple of weeks after the transfer.

 

Bangkok bank will charge 0.25% receiving fee, min of 200 baht - max 500 baht. (Another £13)

Total cost around £53.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Tanoshi]

17 minutes ago, pontious said:

For the UK as long as you check with your bank they deal direct with your Thai bank and not a corespondent Thai bank it will always arrive as FTT.

All International transfers from a UK bank have to go through a clearing bank.

If you bank with a clearing bank it will go through a different branch.

Those are the regulations.

 

All SWIFT transactions go to the Thai bank HQ before being forwarded to your local branch.

An International SWIFT transfer to KK will be coded as a 'domestic' transfer in your local account.

You need to request a credit advice receipt from KK HQ for proof of the Int transfer.

 

An International SWIFT transfer to BKK will be coded as an FTT transfer in your local account.

 

Not all Thai bank HQ's 'tag' the International transfer when transferring to another branch, which means requesting additional information.

[mfd101]

55 minutes ago, Ling Kae said:

Do a few test runs before confirmation and then do one with your regular bank and see which one gives you more baht in the end.

I have conducted that test for my purposes over the last 3 weeks, with AUD3500 (1) from Oz Citibank via TW to my BKKBk account here in Prasat (2) as Oz Citibank Swift transfer to my Prasat account. In both cases the transfer was of AUD with conversion by BKKBk.

 

Results: difficult to compare exactly because of highly variable midrate:  (1) excellent xrate + cAUD28 fee (2) very good xrate, no Citibank fee, BKKBk conversion fee of 220฿. Outcome as baht received: TW roughly 600 or 700฿ ahead, which is not a huge difference if the FTT problem forces me to go the Swift route.

 

BUT, in any case: For larger amounts (eg AUD10,000), TW would be behind Citibank Swift. I haven't worked it out in detail but TW's fee rises steeply as the amount transferred rises, whereas the BKKBk fee for Swift tops out at only 500฿. CONCLUSION: I will continue to use TW - but only for Immigration renewal purposes, not for the other 65K a month we manage (ie my b/f manages) to get through.

Edited July 26, 2019 by mfd101

[Moonlover]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 3:35 PM, jacko45k said:

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 7:23 PM, jesimps said:

I guess, as far as TI is concerned, I may as well wipe my aris on it.

 

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 3:35 PM, jacko45k said:

Don't touch that aris.....   some IOs are accepting corroborating evidence.

True I can confirm that. When I applied for my marriage extension, the senior IO accepted T/W transfer slips, along with my pension statements as sufficient evidence of income. He took no notice at all of the transaction codes on my bank statements, none of which indicated a foreign remit.

 

So don't wipe your aris with them @jesimps 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Moonlover

[pontious]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

An International SWIFT transfer to BKK will be coded as an FTT transfer in your local account.

Which is all I am bothered about. My transfers will arrive as FTT . In 10 years not one coded different.

[pontious]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

 

True I can confirm that. When I applied for my marriage extension, the senior IO accepted T/W transfer slips, along with my pension statements as sufficient evidence of income. He took no notice at all of the transaction codes on my bank statements, none of which indicated a foreign remit.

 

So don't wipe your aris with them @jesimps 

 

 

Be useful to say what office. At Jomtien they want a bank letter showing the foreign transfers. No TW pdf;s just the letter.

[sumrit]

8 hours ago, wgdanson said:

9 hours ago, sumrit said:

That one went via Kasikorn so I went to them and got a Credit Advice Receipt

Do you mean you went to your local Kasikorn bank, showed them the TWise and your Krungthai paperwork and they gave you the Credit advice? I, and many others are in the same boat with Bkk Bank last month. Thanks.

First try, I went to my local Kasikorn in Chonburi. Just young girls who didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

 

Second attempt, I phoned Kasikorn call centre who (eventually) said I needed to get a 13 digit transfer number from BKKB.

Next I called BKKB call centre on 12-7 who promised to get back to me with the number. Still waiting for that call.

 

While waiting for the call back I read a thread on TV about somebody from Chang Mai who needed a CAR from Kasikorn and went to his local branch there. They said they would organise it and sure enough he got what he wanted. He also said the CAR had come from Kasikorn in Pattaya.

 

So, thinking that somebody in one of the Pattaya branches might be able to help I drove there (it's only an hour away) and went to the Kasikorn branch near the bottom of Pattaya Klang. There I was directed to their International office upstairs on the first floor and spoke to a young lady who new exactly what I needed. She said she needed to contact BKKB first and it would take a few days to process, then took a copy of my TW transfer PDF plus my phone number and promised to phone me. I  obtained the CAR from her a few days later and she said if I had a similar problem in the future go straight to her, it should save time.

 

So next time, if there is one, should be straight forward. I personally will continue using TW, I hopefully won't need to lose money on SWIFT transfers.

 

The lesson learned is be persistent and don't be fobbed off at small branches, go the a large Kasikorn branch if possible.

I think also, if at all possible obtain the relevant 13 digit transfer number from BKKB first. 

[sumrit]

21 minutes ago, pontious said:

Be useful to say what office. At Jomtien they want a bank letter showing the foreign transfers. No TW pdf;s just the letter.

Have you been refused personally at Jomtien??

[pontious]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

Have you been refused personally at Jomtien??

No. I asked the pre checkers at desk 8 what they will accept. The Pattaya expat club was also given a copy of the letter to show what they want. Look on there website. It is one that has been published before on TV.

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, pontious said:

Which is all I am bothered about. My transfers will arrive as FTT . In 10 years not one coded different.

TW can't guarantee the transfer through their BKK partner and should it go through KK, then a trip to one of Kasikorn Trade centre branch to get the required FET form as proof of the foreign transaction could involve a lengthy trip. However it's the cheapest form of transaction.

 

From the UK using BKK's London office would also guarantee an International transfer coding

However higher costs and a different exchange rate make it less attractive financially.

 

Transferring UK bank via SWIFT direct to BKK would also guarantee an International transfer coding.

However UK and hidden Intermediary bank charges usually make this the most expensive type of transfer.

[pontious]

11 minutes ago, sumrit said:

First try, I went to my local Kasikorn in Chonburi. Just young girls who didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

 

Second attempt, I phoned Kasikorn call centre who (eventually) said I needed to get a 13 digit transfer number from BKKB.

Next I called BKKB call centre on 12-7 who promised to get back to me with the number. Still waiting for that call.

 

While waiting for the call back I read a thread on TV about somebody from Chang Mai who needed a CAR from Kasikorn and went to his local branch there. They said they would organise it and sure enough he got what he wanted. He also said the CAR had come from Kasikorn in Pattaya.

 

So, thinking that somebody in one of the Pattaya branches might be able to help I drove there (it's only an hour away) and went to the Kasikorn branch near the bottom of Pattaya Klang. There I was directed to their International office upstairs on the first floor and spoke to a young lady who new exactly what I needed. She said she needed to contact BKKB first and it would take a few days to process, then took a copy of my TW transfer PDF plus my phone number and promised to phone me. I  obtained the CAR from her a few days later and she said if I had a similar problem in the future go straight to her, it should save time.

 

So next time, if there is one, should be straight forward. I personally will continue using TW, I hopefully won't need to lose money on SWIFT transfers.

 

The lesson learned is be persistent and don't be fobbed off at small branches, go the a large Kasikorn branch if possible.

I think also, if at all possible obtain the relevant 13 digit transfer number from BKKB first. 

So you may have to drive 2 hours every month for a piece of paper, Up to you.

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, sumrit said:

First try, I went to my local Kasikorn in Chonburi. Just young girls who didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

 

Second attempt, I phoned Kasikorn call centre who (eventually) said I needed to get a 13 digit transfer number from BKKB.

Next I called BKKB call centre on 12-7 who promised to get back to me with the number. Still waiting for that call.

 

While waiting for the call back I read a thread on TV about somebody from Chang Mai who needed a CAR from Kasikorn and went to his local branch there. They said they would organise it and sure enough he got what he wanted. He also said the CAR had come from Kasikorn in Pattaya.

 

So, thinking that somebody in one of the Pattaya branches might be able to help I drove there (it's only an hour away) and went to the Kasikorn branch near the bottom of Pattaya Klang. There I was directed to their International office upstairs on the first floor and spoke to a young lady who new exactly what I needed. She said she needed to contact BKKB first and it would take a few days to process, then took a copy of my TW transfer PDF plus my phone number and promised to phone me. I  obtained the CAR from her a few days later and she said if I had a similar problem in the future go straight to her, it should save time.

 

So next time, if there is one, should be straight forward. I personally will continue using TW, I hopefully won't need to lose money on SWIFT transfers.

 

The lesson learned is be persistent and don't be fobbed off at small branches, go the a large Kasikorn branch if possible.

I think also, if at all possible obtain the relevant 13 digit transfer number from BKKB first. 

It's an FET (Foreign Exchange Transfer) they issue.

You were fortune you lived near a Kasikorn Trade centre.

The nearest one to me is 270Kms in Nakhon Ratchasima.

 

You need to take Passport

BKK passbook showing the transaction.

Copy of Visa/extension.

200 baht admin fee. 

[pontious]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

TW can't guarantee the transfer through their BKK partner and should it go through KK, then a trip to one of Kasikorn Trade centre branch to get the required FET form as proof of the foreign transaction could involve a lengthy trip. However it's the cheapest form of transaction.

 

From the UK using BKK's London office would also guarantee an International transfer coding

However higher costs and a different exchange rate make it less attractive financially.

 

Transferring UK bank via SWIFT direct to BKK would also guarantee an International transfer coding.

However UK and hidden Intermediary bank charges usually make this the most expensive type of transfer.

I have checked with my Uk bank - they do not use any intermediary bank, corespondent bank at all - they transfer direct to BBL. The charge is 10 GBP for them up to 5000 pounds and 17 pounds from there to 75,000 pounds. and 0.25 percent for BBL - max 500 baht. I have checked the figures and in my case there is no hidden inter charges. This thread goes on and on between people who keep saying my transfer has been tagged blah blah blah and I have telephoned before I transferred money to I will drive 4.5 hours to the nearest Kasikorn branch to get a letter blah blah blah. At the end of the day as adults do what you want do do. That is what I am doing.

 

[sumrit]

8 minutes ago, pontious said:

So you may have to drive 2 hours every month for a piece of paper, Up to you.

NO, I don't have to go every month do I. If necessary I can go every three/four months I I want.

 

Plus you're assuming TW  will send the transfers  to the wrong partner bank every time. Even by your pessimistic outlook that is highly unlikely. I've been using TW for two years now, averaging two transfers per month. All bar two of those transfers have come via BKKB. I'll use my law of averages before yours. 

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, pontious said:

I have checked with my Uk bank - they do not use any intermediary bank, corespondent bank at all - they transfer direct to BBL. The charge is 10 GBP for them up to 5000 pounds and 17 pounds from there to 75,000 pounds.

BS, it has to go through an Intermediary clearing bank.

Which UK bank?