Combat school ED visas rejected in Hanoi

[Falconator]

Again, forum members are veering off topic into ad hominem personal attacks and picking on strangers' family lives. These topics belong in another thread.

 

Let's talk about what's going on with the combat school visa situation. Don't worry about me. Forget about my family situation. I'm just one of the many dozens of students there who are trying to figure out what to do next.

 

Thai society also doesn't work like Western European and North American societies. Although I totally recommend trying to following the rules as much as we can, Thais don't view things as black-and-white rules. Their society is all about saving face, getting a piece of the pie, and making important connections rather than being sticklers about rules. This is why burning season bans have no effects, and despite all the talk about banning trash burning and enforcing motorcycle helmet wearing, in practice no one cares and it's not going to change anytime soon. Similarly, despite all the visa crackdowns, I don't see the immigration system suddenly turning upside down because Thai society as a whole doesn't work that way. Their society and their systems are always going to be full of loopholes as long as there are important people who need to get things done the way they want them to.

 

It looks to me as if HCMC still might be a viable option, and Vientiane could still be good in some cases.

 

Waiting for updates. Perhaps the army guys will figure out another way within a few weeks. They don't get shut down that easily, but things are gradually getting tighter everyday.

 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Falconator said:

Again, forum members are veering off topic into ad hominem personal attacks and picking on strangers' family lives. These topics belong in another thread.

You are the one who has veered off by attacking people like me, indicating that because I am elderly- I don't know much about anything and that I am also a crusty person because of my age,  Your prior post insulted me and people like me.

 

Once you publicly apologize  for denigrating the elderly I will have an answer for your dilemma. The solution is not difficult. I have never attacked you personally or your family and never will.

[Falconator]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

You are the one who has veered off by attacking people like me, indicating that because I am elderly- I don't know much about anything and that I am also a crusty person because of my age,  Your prior post insulted me and people like me.

 

Once you publicly apologize  for denigrating the elderly I will have an answer for your dilemma. The solution is not difficult. I have never attacked you personally or your family and never will.

 

I do fully apologize. Please understand that it was meant as a lighthearted quirky sense of humor, and I never intended to offend anyone. Most of us young people completely respect the elderly. Thai Buddhist culture has taught me this.

 

Now take a chill pill and watch this awesome vid bro.

 

 

 

Now moving on.

Let's talk some more about the visa situation shall we?

 

 

[Xavnel]

Okay Falconator, you went from "we are all good guys who follow all the rules "  to.. you recommend ~trying~ to follow the rules ~as much as you can~... "

You did not answer the other guy's question about you real reason for the Visa.

And you obviously are NOT too confident of your actions being all okay and good with the authorities.. 

 

Credibility lost

People like you are the reason Immigration has become more strict.

[Inn Between]

On 7/25/2019 at 10:27 AM, Date Masamune said:

4). Thailand Elite. 228 baht per day for 6 years.

I think it's bizarre that anyone would pay to live in a foreign country and contribute to their economy.  

[Date Masamune]

I think it's bizarre that anyone would pay to live in a foreign country and contribute to their economy.  

Quality of life?

 

No good options left for people not married, not working for a Thai company and not yet 50. And why would a pensioner pay to live in Thailand with visas and extensions when they still have councilhouses in Bradford? How about under a bridge in a cardboard box California?

 

Even if I was low on funds I would rather be in a decent apartment in Thailand with private toilet, shower and Fan. Perhaps AC.

 

228 baht will hardly get you two basic

Coffees at Starbucks where I come from.

[balo]

9 hours ago, Falconator said:

I'm just one of the many dozens of students there who are trying to figure out what to do next.

If you can't afford 400k baht for a marriage visa, you mentioned you have to save for 2 years , I can't see you will succeed , immigration is now very strict. 

I work part time as a digital nomad myself and earn around 40k baht per month. If you work full time and get paid by a US company you should earn a lot more than that. 

You could also apply for a loan back in your home country and just pay for the marriage visa , plenty of options really so you can get that 1 year visa. 

 

[Inn Between]

4 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

7 hours ago, Inn Between said:

I think it's bizarre that anyone would pay to live in a foreign country and contribute to their economy.  

 

Quality of life?

 

No good options left for people not married, not working for a Thai company and not yet 50. And why would a pensioner pay to live in Thailand with visas and extensions when they still have councilhouses in Bradford? How about under a bridge in a cardboard box California?

 

Even if I was low on funds I would rather be in a decent apartment in Thailand with private toilet, shower and Fan. Perhaps AC.

 

228 baht will hardly get you two basic

Coffees at Starbucks where I come from.

I assume the Starbucks where you come from doesn't make you buy 500,000 baht worth of coffee all at once on speculation that you'll drink that many over the next 5 years, assuming we're talking about buying an Elite Visa. 

 

And if we are talking about buying an Elite VIsa, why would someone who has enough to buy one live "under a bridge in a cardboard box in California"?

 

If I'm off course about the 500, 000 baht outlay, then I apologize for losing the point. 

 

 

 

 

[Lovethailandelite]

Update from Thaivisa service regarding Laos visa applications.

 

THAI VISA SERVICE

Visa Renewal Service

 

Visa Renewal Services to Myanmar, Cambodia & Laos

Update 27.7.2019. Update on REFUSED VISA from Vientiane and Savannakhet, re ED Visa: documents must indicate only the level that you actual study and you should be able to speak according to your level. Re Tourist Visa: it appears that Vientiane nowadays give one Tourist Visa in one year and Savannakhet will give one Tourist Visa only if you have stayed less than 90 days in the past 6 month in Thailand. This is a local rule to reduce the number of applicants.

[simon43]

 It seems that it´s a very short education every day: 

 

This is talking about the combat school.  Well, it's not EVERY day!  If you check the website details, you only have to attend each Saturday and Sunday, total attendance per week is only 4 hours, which is well below the legal requirement of 15-20 hours minimum study per week to be eligible for an ED visa.

 

That suggest to me, that the reason why this combat school was able to get ED visas for their students was all to do with 'who they know'.  As mentioned by another poster, it sounds like they "don't know" the right people in the Hanoi embassy.

[simon43]

I also want to comment on some points.  At 60 years old, I suppose I can be classed as a digital nomad, because I teach online, employment which is not dependent on my physical location.

 

I have an Elite visa, (I'm actually coming to the end of the visa term).  This visa type doesn't allow you to work.  Teaching online is 'work'.  IMHO, the only reason why the Thai authorities haven't clamped down on digital nomads is because it is difficult to catch them working and there is little or no paper trail to prove that they are working.

 

But common sense tells me that the Thai tax authorities would love to send tax bills to these DNs, since the country is missing out on these tax receipts. well, if they can't reel in the tax money, why put up with DNs?  Force them to either contribute to the country or move on.

 

It's human nature to want to minimise your tax liability.  But that doesn't mean tax evasion, just tax minimisation through legal means.

 

I'm aware that my Elite visa doesn't allow me to work legally in Thailand.  That's why I'm moving on to reside in another country.

 

BTW, don't tar us oldies with being ignorant of IT.  I was coding before you were born, and I still write code (PHP server-side) most days ????

[Bassosa]

58 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I also want to comment on some points.  At 60 years old, I suppose I can be classed as a digital nomad, because I teach online, employment which is not dependent on my physical location.

 

I have an Elite visa, (I'm actually coming to the end of the visa term).  This visa type doesn't allow you to work.  Teaching online is 'work'.  IMHO, the only reason why the Thai authorities haven't clamped down on digital nomads is because it is difficult to catch them working and there is little or no paper trail to prove that they are working.

 

But common sense tells me that the Thai tax authorities would love to send tax bills to these DNs, since the country is missing out on these tax receipts. well, if they can't reel in the tax money, why put up with DNs?  Force them to either contribute to the country or move on.

 

It's human nature to want to minimise your tax liability.  But that doesn't mean tax evasion, just tax minimisation through legal means.

 

I'm aware that my Elite visa doesn't allow me to work legally in Thailand.  That's why I'm moving on to reside in another country.

 

BTW, don't tar us oldies with being ignorant of IT.  I was coding before you were born, and I still write code (PHP server-side) most days ????

 

They contribute....

they rent condos, eat in restaurants, have their laundry done, buy beer at 7-11, go see the doctor, go to the dentist, get a haircut, buy street food, visit national parks, rent motorbikes, buy new laptops, have their iPhones repaired, buy airline tickets, take trips and book hotels. 

Digital nomads are net contributors, scaring them away would be the stupidest thing Thailand could ever do.

Yes, the odd one crashes his or her motorbike and ends up with an unpaid bill at the hospital but honestly how often does that happen?

[Bill97]

[quote post="14399175" timestamp="1564283974"

 

Quote

 

“Digital nomads are net contributors, scaring them away would be the stupidest thing Thailand could ever do.”

 

Quote

 

 

Not even close to the stupidest. DNS are far from high value.

 

 

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[cerox]

Interesting topic about ED visas, although I had to skip a lot of bickering about definitions of online workers etc.

 

Things change all the time. I am waiting for ED visa documents, school says I should go to Vietnam and not Vientiane anymore. I will do that (Saigon) and report whether or not the accept it. Plan b is leaving, I will not dance around further to get a visa in this country with so many problems anymore.

 

School told me combat training people were denied in Vientiane around 2 months ago; someone here posted he just got it successfully so we see how quickly things change. Once my documents arrive, who knows, maybe they change their mind and tell me to go to Laos again.

 

One thing, if they really want to stop people using ED visas for long-term stays, why dont they just change the process at the MOE (ministry of education) where we get our documents from. I would be really happy if there was just clear communication like ok you can do this and that for 2 years, then leave or buy elite / get marriage visa etc.

 

Although the combat visa is a good option, it is a joke itself, that those people also only get 90 day extensions and not a one year stamp. Considering this is from the "elite / military" - not so much as it seems.

[grifbel]

1 hour ago, Bassosa said:

They contribute....

they rent condos, eat in restaurants, have their laundry done, buy beer at 7-11, go see the doctor, go to the dentist, get a haircut, buy street food, visit national parks, rent motorbikes, buy new laptops, have their iPhones repaired, buy airline tickets, take trips and book hotels. 

Digital nomads are net contributors, scaring them away would be the stupidest thing Thailand could ever do.

They are actually economic free-riders, using social infrastructure while not contributing to its full cost.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem

"In the social sciences, the free-rider problem is a type of market failure that occurs when those who benefit from resources, public goods, or services of a communal nature do not pay for them.^[1] Free riders are a problem because while not paying for the good, they may continue to access it. "

In between your combat lessons, read up on this.

Teaching moment over.

 

[Bill97]

They are actually economic free-riders, using social infrastructure while not contributing to its full cost.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem
"In the social sciences, the free-rider problem is a type of market failure that occurs when those who benefit from resources, public goods, or services of a communal nature do not pay for them.^[1] Free riders are a problem because while not paying for the good, they may continue to access it. "
In between your combat lessons, read up on this.
Teaching moment over.
 

How is that different for people here on other visas/extensions without work permits? Retirement extension, marriage extension, tourist visa ....?


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[Bad boy 561]

On 7/25/2019 at 9:01 PM, Dnyy said:

How about trial by combat to prove that the applicant is into martial arts.

What they teach you at h2h combat is a joke,not a very practical form of self defense,I went there a couple of years ago the stuff they teach is slow and ineffective compared to krav MAGA.

[daoyai]

1 hour ago, grifbel said:

They are actually economic free-riders, using social infrastructure while not contributing to its full cost.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem

"In the social sciences, the free-rider problem is a type of market failure that occurs when those who benefit from resources, public goods, or services of a communal nature do not pay for them.^[1] Free riders are a problem because while not paying for the good, they may continue to access it. "

In between your combat lessons, read up on this.

Teaching moment over.

 

ridiculous assertion,  as the VAT is the primary revenue source for the govt. trough no one can avoid it.

[buick]

On 7/26/2019 at 8:47 AM, Falconator said:

Sure. Which ones though? I'm already quite fluent in Thai, so hope they have advanced classes.

 

i'm sure they have advanced classes for thai language.  it is worth looking into if you aren't able to get the combat ED visa.  ED visas are available for languages other than thai so that is an option also.  as i understand it, you just need some time (a year or two) to save up the money to qualify for a marriage extension of stay.  i don't think you can stay for extended periods on combat ED visas so eventually you'll need an option other than an ED visa of any kind.

 

as several of us have noted, you can get non imm O based on marriage w/o financial proof.  so maybe one year ED visa, the language of your choice, in the meantime you get married.  then another year of stay by getting a multi entry non imm O at a consulate that doesn't require financial proof.  during that two years, you save the 400,000 and then get the extension of stay based on marriage with financial proof.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dcnx]

23 hours ago, Thaidream said:

As far as digital nomads-  or working online- I have no isues with them but not everone  can be a success.  There are more business failures than successes. I just hope they all have a backup plan.

That’s life in general. Being a digital nomad or any random person working on the world comes with the same risk. Some succeed, some fail. 

[dimitriv]

On 7/26/2019 at 4:02 PM, Thaidream said:

If all of your employees are European- I don't know the law but I would imagine there is some type of tax regime in place as European countries generally require more taxes than the US as Europe prides more welfare for its citizens.

 

That sounds logical, but it is not the truth. The US requires that people with a US passport pay tax on their worldwide income. So even if you officially live in another country you still have to pay US tax. And opening bank accounts in most other countries is nearly impossible.

 

For Europeans this is not so. If I leave my country I don't have to pay tax anymore.

 

So there are quite a few disadvantages to a US passport.

[accurate]

I've been at this school for many years without any problems whatsoever, not here in CM nor when gettin new visa abroad. 

 

School will prepare everything at it's fulles, perhaps OPs passport was just so stuffed with stamps and visas. new passport will absolutely fix any worries and new visa will be stamped in anywhere without any questions. 

 

 

[Bassosa]

5 hours ago, grifbel said:

They are actually economic free-riders, using social infrastructure while not contributing to its full cost.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem

"In the social sciences, the free-rider problem is a type of market failure that occurs when those who benefit from resources, public goods, or services of a communal nature do not pay for them.^[1] Free riders are a problem because while not paying for the good, they may continue to access it. "

In between your combat lessons, read up on this.

Teaching moment over.

 

This doesn't apply to Thailand...there are hardly any "resources, public goods or services of a communal nature".

Here you pay for what you use, apart from perhaps the roads, but the VAT paid more than makes up for that too.

[dimitriv]

16 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

If you have been out of the US for a period of time (not sure 1 to 1 1/2 years) you are no longer subject to US taxes if you income source was strictly foreign sources. If your money came via US investments that's another story. 

From what I have heard the only way to escape this tax is by giving up your US passport.  

[Bill97]

If you have been out of the US for a period of time (not sure 1 to 1 1/2 years) you are no longer subject to US taxes if you income source was strictly foreign sources. If your money came via US investments that's another story. 

Do you have a reference for that? Please provide it as it conflicts with what I have read. Thanks.


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[Bill97]

You can access the US tax code on line, under Internal Revenue Services. Up to you, I don't feel like spending my time on this.

The reason I asked is that the info I have found and my US CPA says you are wrong. There is no exemption for people who have been overseas for 1,2 or 50 years.


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[blorg]

@Bill97 he's referring the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. This lets you exclude federal tax on the first $103,900 of foreign-source earned income. Note here that "foreign source" means YOU are physically outside the United States, it doesn't matter if you are paid by a US company into a US bank account, it's foreign source if YOU are outside the US.

 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion

 

You still have to file and you still may be subject to taxes other than federal income tax depending on your specific situation. It's also earned income only, so you still have to pay tax on US dividends, capital gains, pensions, rental income etc. But it makes sense to claim this if you have earned income and you are outside the US for the required period each year, it can significantly reduce your federal tax bill.

 

You do not have to prove to the IRS any other residency, they don't care. Just stay out of the US. However if you can show the IRS another bona fide residency, it allows you to visit the US for a longer period, while still claiming the exclusion.

[DLock]

I have been a supporter of Digital Nomads despite all the Crusties getting upset about them working "illegally". They are just funding their world travels. No harm.

 

But you are not a Digital Nomad anymore. The concept of a DM is that you can travel when you want, pick up and leave anytime when things get too hard, and follow the sun. You want to reside here, so you wanting to be a "Digital Resident".

 

And while I've been supportive of DM's, I have always said "as long as you stay visa legal".

 

...and these combat school or ED visas, whist they may (or may not) be legal, lets call them for what they are - Loopholes visas, and it was only a matter of time.

 

I think you've just been fortunate up till now...but visa's are tightening across the board, and I don't think it' a bad thing. 

 

Best of luck.

 

 

[dimitriv]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

Your listening to the wrong channel or people then. NO ONE gives up a US passport. It seems you no nothing about US tax law. 

I seriously know someone who gave up his US passport for something more convenient.  Why do you think a US passport is so valuable ?  I wouldn't trade my passport for a US passport ever.

 

About US tax: https://www.americansabroad.org/us-taxes-abroad-for-dummies-update/   Read it, and you will see that I am right.

 

 

[dimitriv]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

Do you have a reference for that? Please provide it as it conflicts with what I have read. Thanks.
 

He is wrong. US tax law is explained on https://www.americansabroad.org/us-taxes-abroad-for-dummies-update/