Where digital nomads can legally work in Asia

[alan grice]

Nomad = freeloader / tax dodger. Unemployed or unemployable in their own country. Give us a break. Why would anybody who is a skilled on line worker choose Thailand? Except for the girlie scene. Work at home. Build a pension and come here on holiday. To me DMs are just above the rung of begpackers.

Bet they have a Go Fund Me running as well!


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[ThomasThBKK]

Op, make of this whatever you will but these 166 Chinese professionally trading stocks from thailand using 119 Desktop pcs getting paid to do it, in a single hotel room did nothing wrong and broke no work laws according to a thai judge: 

 

 

Chiang Mais immigration dude said: http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/new-visa-rules-explained/

Quote

What if I want to work in Thailand?

If you are working for a Thai company, you will need a non-immigrant (type B) visa and then a work permit in order to work legally.

If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.

 

Same issue for tour groups coming here that have a tour leader...in Thailand goalposts have wheel like someone else here would say.

There are different definitions of work in Thai law, some explicitly say it has to have a meaningful impact on the local economy, other are more broad.

However, if u want to be strict, than every retiree here managing his overseas properties for rent while based in thailand would also be breaking laws.

[theoldgit]

A number of bickering posts, and one reasoned response, removed.

[CharlieH]

Reported post and response removed.

[LivinLOS]

On 8/6/2019 at 6:33 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

Op, make of this whatever you will but these 166 Chinese professionally trading stocks from thailand using 119 Desktop pcs getting paid to do it, in a single hotel room did nothing wrong and broke no work laws according to a thai judge: 

 

 

Chiang Mais immigration dude said: http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/new-visa-rules-explained/

 

Same issue for tour groups coming here that have a tour leader...in Thailand goalposts have wheel like someone else here would say.

There are different definitions of work in Thai law, some explicitly say it has to have a meaningful impact on the local economy, other are more broad.

However, if u want to be strict, than every retiree here managing his overseas properties for rent while based in thailand would also be breaking laws.

1) stock ownership (and by extension in thier eyes trading) doesnt require a work permit. 
2) managing your investment, so receiving rent returns on real estate doesnt require  work permit. 

 

Easily researched, unsure why the desire to post such miss information. 

[WalkingOrders]

Anywhere with high speed internet, serving customers outside thailand, as a traveler, in/out of thailand which is definition of a digital nomad, perfectly legal. But if you live here you have to meet income reqmnts, and have a proper visa to do so, or make visa runs, but Thailand seems to be cracking down on people running in and out....so it seems from all the posts I read.

[ThomasThBKK]

1) stock ownership (and by extension in thier eyes trading) doesnt require a work permit. 
2) managing your investment, so receiving rent returns on real estate doesnt require  work permit. 
 
Easily researched, unsure why the desire to post such miss information. 

Rubbish.

Nothing in thai law makes a difference about these types of work.

If you manage your thai rental you definitely need a work permit, if you do manage your offshore rental units you don't? [emoji848] That's what you say. Sounds like a digital nomad (i hate this word...).

Work is defined in thai law as:

“work” as “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the law governing foreigners’ business operation.”

A. The following non-Thais can carry out certain activities in Thailand without a work permit:

(1) a non-Thai who comes to Thailand on a short-term periodic basis to: hold or to attend a meeting, lecture, seminar, training, exhibition of art or culture, or sports competition; provide an opinion; inspect work of others; or, any other activities, as prescribed by the Council of Ministers.

(2) a non-Thai who enters into Thailand to: operate a business; make an investment; or who has knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the development of the country;

(3) a non-Thai legal representative (e.g. director) of an alien juristic person that is licensed to operate business under the Foreign Business Act (1999);

Src: https://duensingkippen.com/thailandbusinesslawblog/?p=266


It's quite clear that you are just talkkng your book, you want everything you do to be legal but whatever someone else does you don't like to be illegal. For the simple reason that you hate their lifestyle.



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[LivinLOS]

On 8/11/2019 at 12:53 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

Rubbish.

Nothing in thai law makes a difference about these types of work.

If you manage your thai rental you definitely need a work permit, if you do manage your offshore rental units you don't? That's what you say. Sounds like a digital nomad (i hate this word...).

Work is defined in thai law as:

“work” as “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the law governing foreigners’ business operation.”

A. The following non-Thais can carry out certain activities in Thailand without a work permit:

(1) a non-Thai who comes to Thailand on a short-term periodic basis to: hold or to attend a meeting, lecture, seminar, training, exhibition of art or culture, or sports competition; provide an opinion; inspect work of others; or, any other activities, as prescribed by the Council of Ministers.

(2) a non-Thai who enters into Thailand to: operate a business; make an investment; or who has knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the development of the country;

(3) a non-Thai legal representative (e.g. director) of an alien juristic person that is licensed to operate business under the Foreign Business Act (1999);

Src: https://duensingkippen.com/thailandbusinesslawblog/?p=266


It's quite clear that you are just talkkng your book, you want everything you do to be legal but whatever someone else does you don't like to be illegal. For the simple reason that you hate their lifestyle.



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https://thethaiger.com/issues-answers/asked/do-i-need-a-work-permit-to-play-the-stock-market

 

So the first one cleared up ?? Agreed ?? 

The second one, receiving a rental return on rented property. As you are only receiving the economic benefit, this is exactly like any other return paying asset, as the property is outside Thailand, by definition you are not physically managing it from Thailand, all you are doing is receiving the income from it. If you were to go check in and out tenants, maintain it, work in it, sure thats then leading much more into requiring a work permit, but as it is outside Thailand then by definition you cannot be physically maintaining it inside Thailand. 

[ThomasThBKK]

No nothing is cleared up, you are spreading misinformation. What some weirdo Phuket officer said 10 years ago has no bearing on the law.

Phuket IOs raided a lot of people over the years, like the guys who built boats for themselves, and lost all these cases in court.

They just make stuff up on that mafia island.

 

You link is completely wrong even on this: 

Quote

However, you must pay income tax if you receive a stock dividend.

There's no taxes paid in the case the guy laid out case, he is trading offshore outside of thailand and didn't mention anything about receiving dividends to his thai banks account.

 

 

The law got changed the last time in 2017/2018 with a bunch of emergency decrees issued issued in the Royal Gazette.

I quoted said new law above.

 

This is what Chiang Mai officials said in 2014, which is clearly newer than your phuket guys bs:

https://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citynews/features/new-visa-rules-explained/

 

Quote

What if I want to work in Thailand?

If you are working for a Thai company, you will need a non-immigrant (type B) visa and then a work permit in order to work legally.

If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.

 

 

 

But this doesn't count because?

( ) Phuket > Chiang Mai

( ) Doesn't fit your narrative

( ) F*** young people 

 

Please mark with an X.

 

15 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

As you are only receiving the economic benefit, this is exactly like any other return paying asset, as the property is outside Thailand, by definition you are not physically managing it from Thailand, all you are doing is receiving the income from it

 

Rubbish, work has nothing to do with beeing physical, talking with your tenants is as much work as installing new light bulbs. So is using your knowledge.

So you are claiming you can talk with your tenants but someone else can't talk with their customers because he needs a work permit?

aha. Hyprocite.

 

The defintion as already said is this: 

“work” as “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the law governing foreigners’ business operation.”

 

If you want to take that word by word than it's so broad that absolutely anything can be defined as work including you fixing your girlfriends car.

 

Nor does work have anything to do with getting paid or not as outlined in the definition of law.

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

No nothing is cleared up, you are spreading misinformation. What some weirdo Phuket officer said 10 years ago has no bearing on the law.

Phuket IOs raided a lot of people over the years, like the guys who built boats for themselves, and lost all these cases in court.

They just make stuff up on that mafia island.

 

You link is completely wrong even on this: 

There's no taxes paid in the case the guy laid out case, he is trading offshore outside of thailand and didn't mention anything about receiving dividends to his thai banks account.

 

 

The law got changed the last time in 2017/2018 with a bunch of emergency decrees issued issued in the Royal Gazette.

I quoted said new law above.

 

This is what Chiang Mai officials said in 2014, which is clearly newer than your phuket guys bs:

https://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citynews/features/new-visa-rules-explained/

 

 

 

 

But this doesn't count because?

( ) Phuket > Chiang Mai

( ) Doesn't fit your narrative

( ) F*** young people 

 

Please mark with an X.

 

 

Rubbish, work has nothing to do with beeing physical, talking with your tenants is as much work as installing new light bulbs. So is using your knowledge.

So you are claiming you can talk with your tenants but someone else can't talk with their customers because he needs a work permit?

aha. Hyprocite.

 

The defintion as already said is this: 

“work” as “an engagement of any profession, with or without employer, but excluding business operation of a licensee under the law governing foreigners’ business operation.”

 

If you want to take that word by word than it's so broad that absolutely anything can be defined as work including you fixing your girlfriends car.

 

Nor does work have anything to do with getting paid or not as outlined in the definition of law.

1) owning (buying selling etc) stocks or other financial instruments is not considered work in Thailand. 

 

2) Owning a non Thai property and receiving rental yield on that property is not considered work in Thailand. 

 

Both of these may generate a tax liability, if you are tax resident here, and bring the money into the country in the year it is earned. 

You appear to be purposefully confusing the issue of receiving returns on assets, with 'working' as a digital nomad to fit your own narrative. 

[ThomasThBKK]

Please point us to the law that says so.

 

It doesn't exist.

 

So i can work for a bank in thailand and trade stocks on their behalf without a work permit yes?? thats what you claim.

And that's what the chinese got paid for, except it wasn't for a thai company.

 

Tax liabilities has nothing to do with this.

 

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[LiMax]

Most digital nomads staying in Thailand have to make visa runs out of the country every 90 days. If that’s not really your thing you should consider the Hand to Hand Combat Education Visa in Chiang Mai.

[WalkingOrders]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:26 PM, scorecard said:

There's always the point that wherever you live you are using the local infrastructure, roads, hospitals etc., paid for from local taxpayers funds, therefore everybody working in that country and using the infrastructure should be contributing to tax collections. 

Digital nomad is not a resident  none of his work taking place in thailand, unless hes chasing thai customers, then he is not a nomad. No thai tax liability on income

[WalkingOrders]

On 7/29/2019 at 6:00 AM, balo said:

If you pay your tax in your home country, and salary goes into your foreign bank account or e-wallet, then you are free to travel all over the world as a nomad , you just need to apply for the right visa. 

If you try to get your salary into a Thai bank account or other countries , you will get in trouble sooner or later. 
So my advice is to never give up your home country. You could just have a postal address there and keep your bank accounts. Then enjoy travelling as a tourist/expat. 

I've been doing this for 10 years. 

 

No trouble unless very high ammounts tranferred. 

[ThomasThBKK]

9 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

No trouble unless very high ammounts tranferred. 

Why would you pay income taxes in your home country tho...

You don't live there, there's no need to pay income taxes in general anymore at that place with some rare exceptions (US/Eritrea, rental income etc).

Sure you might pay corporate taxes etc but that's it

[JoseThailand]

On 7/28/2019 at 7:26 PM, scorecard said:

There's always the point that wherever you live you are using the local infrastructure, roads, hospitals etc., paid for from local taxpayers funds, therefore everybody working in that country and using the infrastructure should be contributing to tax collections. 

They are contributing. They all pay VAT when buying goods and services.

[balo]

Just ignore posters like LivinLOS, always trying to argue against us digital nomads. we know the truth.

[LivinLOS]

17 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Please point us to the law that says so.

 

It doesn't exist.

 

So i can work for a bank in thailand and trade stocks on their behalf without a work permit yes?? thats what you claim.

And that's what the chinese got paid for, except it wasn't for a thai company.

 

Tax liabilities has nothing to do with this.

 

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Sigh.. Owning 'your own' financial assets.. 

 

These are considered passive incomes and not actively working. 

 

Working for a bank, trading another persons book, I assume would be working. 

 

I have already included on authoritative source. Please provide a contradictory one. 

[LivinLOS]

15 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

Digital nomad is not a resident  none of his work taking place in thailand, unless hes chasing thai customers, then he is not a nomad. No thai tax liability on income

The legitimate 'nomads' who come for a few weeks, and move on.. Are very similar to Thailands traditional tourists and while they are effected by the law, I belive the desire to not upset that desperately needed tourism income is why they struggle to enforce the laws. 

However the constant posts of people on thier 3rd visa exempt entry after etc etc are not nomadic, they are simply digital resident tax avoiders trying to arbitrage cost of living by not contributing to the societes they are choosing to be resident in. 

[LivinLOS]

9 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

They are contributing. They all pay VAT when buying goods and services.

Thailand has set its laws.. Coming to a country specifically knowing you intend to break its laws, is a very poor guest. 

 

5 hours ago, balo said:

Just ignore posters like LivinLOS, always trying to argue against us digital nomads. we know the truth.

Yes, pointing out the actual law is 'arguing against'.. 

 

The law is clear, any active work inside the kingdom, for any client in any location, requires a work permit. 

[balo]

7 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

The law is clear, any active work inside the kingdom, for any client in any location, requires a work permit. 

No it does not. 

 

Sending an e-mail or having a Skype conversation to my employer overseas does not require a work permit in Thailand. And you know it. 

[ThomasThBKK]

15 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Sigh.. Owning 'your own' financial assets.. 

 

These are considered passive incomes and not actively working. 

 

Working for a bank, trading another persons book, I assume would be working. 

 

I have already included on authoritative source. Please provide a contradictory one. 

I already did, mutliple times, the head of CM immigration: http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/new-visa-rules-explained/

 

Quote

If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.

 

 

 

But you are pleasently ignoring this because it doesn't fit your narrative.

[ThomasThBKK]

16 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Thailand has set its laws.. Coming to a country specifically knowing you intend to break its laws, is a very poor guest. 

 

Yes, pointing out the actual law is 'arguing against'.. 

 

The law is clear, any active work inside the kingdom, for any client in any location, requires a work permit. 

Wrong, an absolute lie.

 

Quote

A. The following non-Thais can carry out certain activities in Thailand without a work permit:

(1) a non-Thai who comes to Thailand on a short-term periodic basis to: hold or to attend a meeting, lecture, seminar, training, exhibition of art or culture, or sports competition; provide an opinion; inspect work of others; or, any other activities, as prescribed by the Council of Ministers.

(2) a non-Thai who enters into Thailand to: operate a business; make an investment; or who has knowledge, ability, or skills that are considered beneficial to the development of the country;

(3) a non-Thai legal representative (e.g. director) of an alien juristic person that is licensed to operate business under the Foreign Business Act (1999);

 

 

you are nothing but a liar spreading misinformation here.

[ThomasThBKK]

15 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Sigh.. Owning 'your own' financial assets.. 

 

These are considered passive incomes and not actively working. 

 

Working for a bank, trading another persons book, I assume would be working. 

 

I have already included on authoritative source. Please provide a contradictory one. 

Also wrong, just another lie.

 

There's no differentation anywhere in thai law between active and passive work, work is defined as already quoted above.

[LivinLOS]

On 8/14/2019 at 11:30 AM, balo said:

No it does not. 

 

Sending an e-mail or having a Skype conversation to my employer overseas does not require a work permit in Thailand. And you know it. 

Legally it does. 

 

Enforcement is not possible. 

[LivinLOS]

15 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

I already did, mutliple times, the head of CM immigration: http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/new-visa-rules-explained/

 

 

 

 

But you are pleasently ignoring this because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Because what was said by the immigration officer in Chiang mai was actually 'we are not concerned with that'.. Which is exactly correct as he isnt a labour law enforcer. 

That statement was then miss translated, and not repeated on other enquiry. 

[LivinLOS]

15 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Wrong, an absolute lie.

 

 

 

you are nothing but a liar spreading misinformation here.

None of those things are a digital nomad operating an online business within the kingdom. The subject of discussion. 

[LivinLOS]

16 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Also wrong, just another lie.

 

There's no differentation anywhere in thai law between active and passive work, work is defined as already quoted above.

 

Yes there is.. Active income (working) is totally different from passive income (receiving remuneration for things like dividends, rental returns, royalties, etc) where no 'activity' is being performed for the remuneration. This is why owning (and the process of buying selling etc your own) financial assets like stocks doesnt require a work permit. 

This is why the youtuber example is so clearly broken down by the labour dept. Even the subtle distinction between prior work and current work as part of the income streams. 

 

https://thethaiger.com/issues-answers/asked/is-uploading-videos-to-youtube-considered-work

 

 

Quote

 

No, it isn’t, as long as the uploading is for fun or to share on social media networks publicly for free. However, if you turn on YouTube ads while living in Thailand, or post them in your own blog where they can collect revenue, this could be considered work. Even if you posted videos while outside Thailand, but then activated or turned on ads related to them, this would still be considered work, as you would be making money while in the country. It means you are working while you are living in the Kingdom. However, if you activated the ads before entering the country, but still received revenue once entering the country for your holiday, then this would not be considered as working while staying in Thailand.

Yaowapa Pibulpol, chief of Phuket Provincial Employment Office (PPEO).

 

 

[balo]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Legally it does. 

 

Enforcement is not possible. 

Then why do you need to post the same BS week after week ? 
I sent 5 e-mails yesterday, and I had 1 Skype call from a business friend. 

All you do is scaremongering. 

 

[Shoban]

Curious, do digital nomads prefer to constantly travel, or do they look to set up a permanent base in a country with low cost living?

 

This guy ended up making Malaysia his base

https://nomadcapitalist.com/2013/11/11/easy-permanent-residence-in-asia-malaysia-investor-visa-program/

 

but i noticed the majority of nomads like to travel to the next place as soon as their visit visa expires.