Immigration fine house owner in Chiang Mai for not reporting visiting Canadian

[shady86]

I have an idea...
 
TM30 is total nonsense and the way to make it go away is for it to become a burden on immigration administrators...
 
I call for all foreigners to send in a new TM30 form every single week and see how they handle that mountain of paperwork...
 
Defeat nonsense with even bigger nonsense,
 
HAHAHA [emoji12]

If you have the time to waste going to office and wait the whole day.
Online doesn't work, still haven't get pass after 2 months.

[mike787]

Absolute stupidity!

[NightSky]

11 minutes ago, shady86 said:

If you have the time to waste going to office and wait the whole day.
Online doesn't work, still haven't get pass after 2 months.

you can do it by post 

[Almer]

10 hours ago, Vacuum said:

If you don't leave the country, no report needed (CM)

Wrong, if you leave the province i do believe

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, bslmh said:

This one from jomtien last year

...

 

Thank you, bslmh, for posting your receipt.

 

Because most posts about TM.30 fines were about THB 800 I assumed that this was the amount listed in the settlement rule mentioned in section 84 of the Immigration Act and that in the rare cases where an immigration official collected THB 1,600 he was fining both the house-master/possessor/tenant and the owner THB 800 each and collected the total of THB 1,600 from the person sitting in front of him, which usually is the tenant. Now that posts about fines of THB 1,600 from several immigration offices are getting more frequent I am beginning to wonder if a new settlement rule came into effect recently with THB 1,600 on the list for the late submission of the TM.30.

 

Oh, how I wish I could get hold of a copy of this elusive settlement rule!

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, RBOP said:

3,000 Baht for me today at CW. 

 

A fine of THB 3,000 for the late submission of the TM.30, that's unique. Would you care to post a copy of the receipt, blotting out your name and signature?

 

How many days were you late? I am trying to figure out what wrong calculation they used to arrive at THB 3,000.

 

P.S. Just saw your subsequent post about not getting a receipt, which means you had the bad luck of dealing with a corrupt official.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

11 hours ago, Genmai said:

They keep this up and nobody will want to have us stay for a night anywhere. Not worth the risk and hassle! 

Haven't thought about it before, but TIT so gotta wonder if maybe some hotel group or association is (paying) behind this to further stifle Airbnb and private rentals? I'm sure they'd love it if Thais were afraid to rent to foreigners...

[bluesofa]

13 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Haven't thought about it before, but TIT so gotta wonder if maybe some hotel group or association is (paying) behind this to further stifle Airbnb and private rentals? I'm sure they'd love it if Thais were afraid to rent to foreigners...

It's a quite good conspiracy theory.

 

[JeffersLos]

Why aren't they raiding the hotels before check out time to see if every guest was reported by that hotel the previous day?

 

Mainly seems to be where farangs are staying, and they can't get whatever immigration business done until the fine is paid.....

[Robsweblinks]

My wife was fined 4000. I have a yellow book. The officer crossed out the ticket number. Later we read on the back max fine 1600. My wife called him and said her brother is a lawyer and what's up with ticket. He said he made a mistake and would be right over. He brought us a photo copy of a ticket with 1600 and gave us back the extra.

[White Christmas13]

Slightly off topic I guess but don't want to start another thread on this topic

I am coming to Thailand again beginning of December I stay in a friends place

for 1 night when I arrive then move on to a hotel further down the road

for 2 weeks then spend another 4 days in my friends place before I am

flying back. So what do I have to fill in on my TM6 just the address from the

hotel or my friends place and does my friend has to file a TM 30 or just the

hotel it is very confusing now

[jethro69]

16 hours ago, Genmai said:

Except when it's your disabled 75 year old father in law because you refuse to drag him halfway across town to an IO. You realize this has severe implications for how we as foreigners are treated, right? They keep this up and nobody will want to have us stay for a night anywhere. Not worth the risk and hassle!

Well, I pretty much stopped to go anywhere, not even to the next bigger city for a few cold ones.

No wonder, they all complaining there no people around.

[NightSky]

9 hours ago, jethro69 said:

Well, I pretty much stopped to go anywhere, not even to the next bigger city for a few cold ones.

No wonder, they all complaining there no people around.

Me too instead of visiting the wifes family I staid put. 

[Bangel72]

Still confusing who they fine.

Many landlords are not even aware when a foreigner stays at their rental apartments particularly if they are only staying a few nights.

So who would they fine in that case, the lease holder?

How many Thai lease holders know anything about this?  My partner for one has no idea, never heard of it or felt it related to her, I've not met the landlord but pretty sure he does not want to know either.

   

[chrissables]

On 7/31/2019 at 10:16 AM, SammyT said:

To be fair, while I agree it's idiotic, it's not like that Thai Immigration haven't widely publicised this (stupid) rule is going to be enforced. Landlords who are renting to farang should know these rules. I've had no issues with my landlords doing it to-date. It sounds like it's the ones who don't want to pay tax who don't do it. 

 

Also, the 24 hour thing seems very subjective and dependant on which officer you get. Recently came back into the country but didn't get in to immigration for a few days and there was no issue at all. In and out in five minutes. 

To be fair, while I agree it's idiotic, it's not like that Thai Immigration haven't widely publicised this (stupid) rule is going to be enforced.

 

How many Thai people read about Thai immigration rules? Is it on Thai tv and in Thai newspapers informing the Thai public? I don't know the answer, but suspect not.

[hobz]

On 7/31/2019 at 10:10 AM, sammieuk1 said:

Its amusing when Thais fine themselves with their own stupid laws????

What are the odds that the Canadian didn't pay for this somehow?

[hobz]

On 7/31/2019 at 10:16 AM, SammyT said:

To be fair, while I agree it's idiotic, it's not like that Thai Immigration haven't widely publicised this (stupid) rule is going to be enforced. Landlords who are renting to farang should know these rules. I've had no issues with my landlords doing it to-date. It sounds like it's the ones who don't want to pay tax who don't do it. 

 

Also, the 24 hour thing seems very subjective and dependant on which officer you get. Recently came back into the country but didn't get in to immigration for a few days and there was no issue at all. In and out in five minutes. 

What if you have a job?

Let's say you work Monday to Friday. You go out of province during weekend. Now you are expected to go to immigration on monday. But you are also expected to go to work on monday. 

It's ridiculous.

[dudopode]

I live at my girlfriend's house, where I don't pay rent... It seems now we must make a rent deal including a price I pay ...

Is this correct ? 

[silverhawk_usa]

On 7/31/2019 at 3:48 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

Im sorry but I dont understand any aspect of this post. Its a non sequitur with no ending. 

Sarcasm.  Of course I don't agree with this Immigration policy.  "Sorry, My bad", is commonly used sarcastically or whimsically as an insincere apology. In this case, in advance of any questions that could arise.  Such as; "I am sorry officer, I "accidentally" transposed the numbers which resulted in an untraceable address".  My niece?  Here and gone.  No problem.

[mikebike]

On 7/31/2019 at 1:34 PM, yellowboat said:

You pass out on a park bench, what do you do?  You are on a long bicycle ride and you camp along the way, what do you do?  Some friends offered me a couch at their house for a few nights.  Chose a hotel because of such silliness.   It is an harassment to the country

At my local immigration office you don't do anything.

 

If you have a 1 yr rental contract. You only report if you have left the country. If you are a tourist or living here full time without a 1 yr + rental contract someone must report where you are staying very time you change address.

[mikebike]

On 7/31/2019 at 1:39 PM, Titan1962 said:

So many conflicting answers.

While renewing my retirement visa at CM immigration,my Thai wife asked the question regarding reporting my whereabouts.

We own our home in CM,and this is the address I permanently reside at. If we decide to go on a road trip and will be away for 6 weeks does she Being the house owner need to report to CM immigration that I am back at my permanent place of residence when the trip is finished. The answer she got was no,only if I leave the country. Upon my return she must report me as being back at our home with24 hrs.

She also asked the question regarding my son coming to visit us for a 2 week holiday,she was told that she had to report him within 24 hrs of arriving at our home.

Maybe others have been informed otherwise.

 

Seems like you got the same answers in the north as I got in the south... where's the conflicting answers?

[mikebike]

On 7/31/2019 at 1:51 PM, TEFLKrabi said:

This is exactly the problem. In my province there are 2 offices. One says report every time you stay overnight outside your home province, the other says only if you leave the country. On the posters I’ve seen it says you must report if you overnight outside your home province. 

Big surprise!! There are differences in interpretation at different immigration offices. Not ideal and definitely can make living in some places more difficult than others. But we can choose our locations based on what's important to ourselves, no? The head of my immigration office can be a real dick at times. The head of immigration the next province over is an angel apparently... I like where I live and choose to deal with the (occasional) dick.

[mikebike]

On 7/31/2019 at 6:09 PM, Ramdas said:

Thank you Sir Titan..????

I have already a flight booked out of this mess in December, I will be out of the country for 2 weeks, my question is.. To your knowledge..Does my Employer ( I reside where we live and work under the same roof ) Needs to notify the immigration  ( meaning doing this TM 30 form ) When I’m back ?!’

Yes/No ?! ????

This apart from filling in the TM 6 on arrival ?!

Thank you in advance ???? much appreciated.

If your employer is the "House Master", then yes, they are supposed to do the report. Yes, TM30 is separate from TM6.

[mikebike]

On 8/1/2019 at 12:25 AM, White Christmas13 said:

Slightly off topic I guess but don't want to start another thread on this topic

I am coming to Thailand again beginning of December I stay in a friends place

for 1 night when I arrive then move on to a hotel further down the road

for 2 weeks then spend another 4 days in my friends place before I am

flying back. So what do I have to fill in on my TM6 just the address from the

hotel or my friends place and does my friend has to file a TM 30 or just the

hotel it is very confusing now

On TM6 you would enter the address of the FIRST place you are staying. In theory, the hotels will do the TM30 report when you stay there. Also your friend should do a TM30 report (or face a fine) but in practice these regulations seldom affect short-term visitors (no immo officer will detain you from leaving because of TM30 issues) unless you go to extend a visa or visa-exempt entry. It does however, affect long-term residents as they need these things in order when they visit immo for other things.

[Brigand]

By doing this then many Thais may well become less hospitable towards foreigners with things like refusing to rent properties or allow them to stay at their guesthouse/hotel or wherever due to the hassle and scrutiny ... although, then again, maybe that's the plan.

[nrasmussen]

By doing this then many Thais may well become less hospitable towards foreigners with things like refusing to rent properties or allow them to stay at their guesthouse/hotel or wherever due to the hassle and scrutiny ... although, then again, maybe that's the plan.

Three or four years ago I wanted to rent a house, but when I told the owner that he would have to report that I stayed there to immigration, the answer was: "In that case I'm not renting to foreigners."

Fortunately not all landlords are like that, so subsequently I have successfully rented properties twice without any problems.

[schlemmi]

On 7/31/2019 at 10:53 AM, holy cow cm said:

Assuming this person did a 90 day report and not 90 day border run.

No, not neccrssarily. The addrrss the foteigner by itself reported on the TM6 form. This form is the arrivel/departure caed you hand out at the border at the time you enter thailand. Thats enough data to check if there is a corresponding TM30 record to it. 

[schlemmi]

17 hours ago, nrasmussen said:

Three or four years ago I wanted to rent a house, but when I told the owner that he would have to report that I stayed there to immigration, the answer was: "In that case I'm not renting to foreigners."

Fortunately not all landlords are like that, so subsequently I have successfully rented properties twice without any problems.

If you rent a hose, then you as the person already rented the house is the boss about what is ongoging in that house. The person who gives you the house to use it by your own is no longer resposoble for what is happened in it.  From the moment you signed the contract you are the boss in duty (หัวหน้า) hua naa of this home and its your duty to report according art.38. If you move in, after the contract is signed you not move in a home where the real owner is the boss. From now on you are the possessor.

[schlemmi]

On 7/31/2019 at 2:57 PM, bslmh said:

This one from jomtien last year

This ticket is from the immigration chonburi where the office in jomtien belongs to.

It is concerning to the person ho is in duty to report according to art.38 of the immigration act. This is clearely stated in the text placed by the rubberstamp.

The only question here is:

Did the person in duty to repory really failed. The story behind is not clear.

 

The name on the report that is ananymized is the name of the person in duty to do the report or not.

 

Maybe you can write a bit more about the background or point us to the posts already done concerning this specific ticket.

 

[nrasmussen]

If you rent a hose, then you as the person already rented the house is the boss about what is ongoging in that house. The person who gives you the house to use it by your own is no longer resposoble for what is happened in it.  From the moment you signed the contract you are the boss in duty (หัวหน้า) hua naa of this home and its your duty to report according art.38. If you move in, after the contract is signed you not move in a home where the real owner is the boss. From now on you are the possessor.

That's my understanding too, but different immigration offices may have a different interpretation of this. I was once told, adamantly, that only the owner would be acceptable for doing the reporting.

In any case, without some form of cooperation from the owner (i.e., copies of house registration and ID card), it may be difficult for the tenant to file the report. That's why I always am up front with the requirements when talking to a potential landlord.