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Thailand VS Vietnam? Which one will be better in 5yrs?


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What an unpleasant thing to post , may get deleted 

Jeez what the heck is this? Old white men are a cancer? As opposed to old black men or old white women? Nothing truthful about your disgusting comment, I think you've gone a bit wonky from the heat.

Thailand is cheap?? And Bangkok is a great place to live?????? <deleted>?  Yes veitnam rocks , after 9 years based in Thailand, I started coming to Vietnam 2 years ago, won't be back i

32 minutes ago, gamesgplayemail said:

And how is weed there ?! Easily available ?

So I'm led to believe - not that I indulge of course, along with vaping, vape shops, cheaper cigarettes and readily available NRT products at a fraction of the cost in Thailand, should a person wish to stop completely - in five years time, or indeed of course right now.

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1 hour ago, phkauf said:

I can see the VN communist system going away in time - the country is very young and many of the old "true believers" are dying off at a rapid clip. Talk with anyone under the age of 30 (which is half the country) and you will hear utter disdain for the communist system. Unlike China, the internet is open and free so people are able to see what is really going on in the world outside and they desire the same things. Things will change as Hemingway said "Gradually, and then suddenly".

Thailand ain't changing. The military and the elites will see to that as they have since the 1930's.

Politics is a taboo topic in Vietnam. It is rarely discussed. When you ask Vietnamese why, they put there wrists together (Handcuffs). Their disdain for the regime might be indirectly expressed by their fascination of everything American, and in South Vietnam by their dislike of northerners(the regime is after all northern) 

Mostly, they are simply not interested in and knowledgeable about politics :They can't change anything, so they have given up on it. 

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17 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

What I saw in Hanoi was, that all pay the same at tourist attractions.

 

Do you only have been in Old Town? I live 20 minutes from the city Center away in a modern bungalow beside a lake in quiet nature, but still in Chiang Mai. What means "in the middle of nowhere"? Because there is no other big city nearby? Because it´s surrounded from beautiful nature? Which city in Vietnam isn´t in the middle of nowhere following your definition of Chiang Mai, where 1 mio. people are living?

When I was in Hanoi last March the air was minimal better than in Chiang Mai, but also very bad. 

 

Yes that's largely true but there are exceptions. Also, dual pricing is not well publicized everywhere so foreigners, especially tourists are often unaware of the practice. In Laos for example, in some places where I thought that dual pricing wasn't practiced, it actually is - what happens is a Lao person simply tells the ticket seller they are Lao (khoy pen kon Lao) and they get a 50% discount. Later I discovered this was printed behind the counter (in Lao, which I can read) to state that Lao citizens get a 50% discount. So rather than write out "khon Lao 10,000 Kip" they simply write: admission 20,000 Kip and then in words "Lao citizens get a 50% discount". Therefore, anyone looking for a different number don't see it. In Laos, they have their own numbers but they are used even more rarely than in Thailand, for some reason. Could be that the Communists decided to make it easier on the population just to use Arabic numbers and leave Lao numbers for historical purposes and advertising.

 

Perhaps Vietnam is similar in some places, you just have to look. I look for the word that means "foreigner" written in Vietnamese then I know there's dual pricing though it's true that at the majority of tourist attractions, dual pricing is no longer practiced. One well known exception that I know of is the Imperial palace in Hue. Definitely dual pricing there - I experienced it myself. Also, in general there are fewer tourist attractions of the type that one can find in Thailand, therefore there are fewer opportunities for the authorities to impose dual pricing.

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15 hours ago, SteveK said:

How many old black men or old white women are ex-pats in Thailand?

There is a disproportionately large amount of Thai women who genuinely like white guys in Thailand, so white men flock to where they feel they have the greatest chance to marry (or just get laid). Black men have the opposite experience - I have some black friends and they all said the same thing: went to Thailand once, faced racism and women they approached ran away from them, never again.

 

As for white women - what do they have to look forward to in Thailand? They can do better back home. Not to mention there are significantly more male expats than female ones everywhere, not just Thailand.

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12 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I tend to think he is right, when it comes to Thailand. Old or young, they just do not seem to want white tourists, or white ex-pats. White means western. Their xenophobia, and racism has really ratcheted itself up a few notches lately. I am not referring to most Thai people. I think alot like us, or at the minimum, are indifferent to us. I am referring to the administration, and most government workers, who are getting indoctrinated by the hyperbolic and extremely ignorant nonsense coming from the top. 

 

I am not sure this relates to "most Asian nations". But, it is true here in Thailand, unfortunately. 

Actually, it is most Thais :Arguably one of the most xenophobic countries in the world. I would say they don't even consider us farangs fully human (absolutely nothing to do with age, as a previous poster suggested:it's a racial thing). And it's not from the top down, it permeates the whole of Thai society. A 3-year old has learned it already, when they point you out to their parents and say 5555 a farang. 

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7 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

Actually, it is most Thais :Arguably one of the most xenophobic countries in the world. I would say they don't even consider us farangs fully human (absolutely nothing to do with age, as a previous poster suggested:it's a racial thing). And it's not from the top down, it permeates the whole of Thai society. A 3-year old has learned it already, when they point you out to their parents and say 5555 a farang. 

I agree with some of that. We are definitely outsiders, and will always be outsiders to most of them. But, I know many who are genuinely kind and caring, and not that way at all. Once you get past the whole outsider thing, and no longer view that as a form of racism, life here gets easier. It is not personal for me. I have no need to belong. I have a great wife, and I adore her wonderful family. They are my family, and I am a part of their family. Her friends treat me with genuine affection and respect, and I meet many Thais who may see me as a fareng, as that is just their culture. But, there is no dislike or racist angle there. It is just that I am not one of them. Means virtually nothing to me. 

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6 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

Actually, it is most Thais :Arguably one of the most xenophobic countries in the world. I would say they don't even consider us farangs fully human (absolutely nothing to do with age, as a previous poster suggested:it's a racial thing). And it's not from the top down, it permeates the whole of Thai society. A 3-year old has learned it already, when they point you out to their parents and say 5555 a farang. 

Thailand is prolly one of the least xenophobic country in Asia - did you ever spend time in Korea or Japan? I am not saying it's not xenophobic here but the rest is worse.

I have an office in seoul, and they don't even let me in in clubs and bars in certain areas. And i am white, blue eyed german...black friends have it way way worse. 

Japan, Singapore etc - all the same: https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/racism-and-apartment-hunting-in-east-asia/

No need to mention Chinas reeduction camps even...

 

I don't think it's a big issue in Thailand compared to the rest of Asia. After all Thailand is the one country most used to Westerners and normal Thai's don't have any issue with us.

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7 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

Actually, it is most Thais :Arguably one of the most xenophobic countries in the world. I would say they don't even consider us farangs fully human (absolutely nothing to do with age, as a previous poster suggested:it's a racial thing). And it's not from the top down, it permeates the whole of Thai society. A 3-year old has learned it already, when they point you out to their parents and say 5555 a farang. 

Back on the subject matter please: the original clickbait/provocation post asked for comments comparing Thailand with Vietnam 5 years from now... 

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12 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Yes that's largely true but there are exceptions. Also, dual pricing is not well publicized everywhere so foreigners, especially tourists are often unaware of the practice. In Laos for example, in some places where I thought that dual pricing wasn't practiced, it actually is - what happens is a Lao person simply tells the ticket seller they are Lao (khoy pen kon Lao) and they get a 50% discount. Later I discovered this was printed behind the counter (in Lao, which I can read) to state that Lao citizens get a 50% discount. So rather than write out "khon Lao 10,000 Kip" they simply write: admission 20,000 Kip and then in words "Lao citizens get a 50% discount". Therefore, anyone looking for a different number don't see it. In Laos, they have their own numbers but they are used even more rarely than in Thailand, for some reason. Could be that the Communists decided to make it easier on the population just to use Arabic numbers and leave Lao numbers for historical purposes and advertising.

 

Perhaps Vietnam is similar in some places, you just have to look. I look for the word that means "foreigner" written in Vietnamese then I know there's dual pricing though it's true that at the majority of tourist attractions, dual pricing is no longer practiced. One well known exception that I know of is the Imperial palace in Hue. Definitely dual pricing there - I experienced it myself. Also, in general there are fewer tourist attractions of the type that one can find in Thailand, therefore there are fewer opportunities for the authorities to impose dual pricing.

Interesting what you say about Laos. While I speak Thai, which virtually all Laotians can understand, I can't read it, let alone Pasa Lao. I have a feeling that dual pricing and rip-offs have gone up in Laos. 20 years ago, Laotians were known for their exceptional honesty, not anymore. The opposite has happened in Vietnam :20 years ago, it was the rip-off capital of the world, now in many non-touristy places you are more likely to get a special discount than being ripped off. One huge exception is Hoi An, where the Vietnamese are still up to their old tricks of gouging tourists. 

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30 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Yes that's largely true but there are exceptions. Also, dual pricing is not well publicized everywhere so foreigners, especially tourists are often unaware of the practice. In Laos for example, in some places where I thought that dual pricing wasn't practiced, it actually is - what happens is a Lao person simply tells the ticket seller they are Lao (khoy pen kon Lao) and they get a 50% discount. Later I discovered this was printed behind the counter (in Lao, which I can read) to state that Lao citizens get a 50% discount. So rather than write out "khon Lao 10,000 Kip" they simply write: admission 20,000 Kip and then in words "Lao citizens get a 50% discount". Therefore, anyone looking for a different number don't see it. In Laos, they have their own numbers but they are used even more rarely than in Thailand, for some reason. Could be that the Communists decided to make it easier on the population just to use Arabic numbers and leave Lao numbers for historical purposes and advertising.

 

Perhaps Vietnam is similar in some places, you just have to look. I look for the word that means "foreigner" written in Vietnamese then I know there's dual pricing though it's true that at the majority of tourist attractions, dual pricing is no longer practiced. One well known exception that I know of is the Imperial palace in Hue. Definitely dual pricing there - I experienced it myself. Also, in general there are fewer tourist attractions of the type that one can find in Thailand, therefore there are fewer opportunities for the authorities to impose dual pricing.

I have been in some tourist attractions and the prices are the same, it doesn´t matter if the sign is in English or Vietnamese. Also I saw at the cashier when I was waiting, that the Vietnamese in the queue before me paid for 2 adults the same I had to pay.

Edited by CNXexpat
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2 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

 Here are a few home facts about Vietnam from someone who knows. 

1. There is NO tax on income earned overseas. How would they know what you earn overseas? There is tax on income earned in Vietnam. 

 

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html

 

Quote

Residents in Vietnam have to pay tax on their worldwide income at progressive tax rates. Therefore, salary earned from working abroad is taxable in Vietnam.

 

https://www.vietnam-briefing.com/news/personal-income-tax-exemptions-and-reductions.html/

Quote

Tax residents are subject to PIT on their worldwide employment income, regardless of where the income is paid or earned, at progressive rates from five percent to a maximum of 35 percent. Non-resident taxpayers are subject to PIT at a flat rate of 20 percent on their Vietnam-

 

http://taxsummaries.pwc.com/ID/Vietnam-Individual-Taxes-on-personal-income

Quote

Tax residents are subject to Vietnamese personal income tax (PIT) on their worldwide taxable income, wherever it is paid or received. Employment income is taxed on a progressive tax rates basis. Non-employment income is taxed at a variety of different rates.

 

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-vietnamhighlights-2019.pdf

 

 

 

 

Really? How would they know isn't a legal argument. How would the US know or Germany about your worldwide income? Simply through tax information exchanges and double tax treaties with many countries: 

https://gws-offshore.com/tiea-tax-information-exchange-agreements/ 

https://www.ey.com/gl/en/services/tax/international-tax/alert--united-states-and-vietnam-sign-first-income-tax-treaty

http://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/news/oecd-welcomes-viet-nams-commitment-to-implement-the-internationally-agreed-standards-to-tackle-tax-evasion-and-avoidance.htm

 

Quote

The Convention is the most comprehensive multilateral instrument available for a wide range of tax co-operation to tackle tax evasion and avoidance, and guarantees extensive safeguards for the protection of taxpayers' rights. The Convention was developed jointly by the OECD and the Council of Europe in 1988 and amended in 2010 to respond to the call by the G20 to align it to the international standard on exchange of information and to open it to all countries, thus ensuring that developing countries could benefit from the new more transparent environment. It is seen as the ideal instrument for swift implementation of the new Standard for Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information in Tax Matters developed by the OECD and G20 countries as well as automatic exchange of country by country reports under the BEPS Project. Already 111 countries and jurisdictions have joined the Convention.

 

 

Just because someone is dodging taxes doesn't make it the correct thing to do, it's outright dangerous.

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1 minute ago, amexpat said:

Types on income exempt from PIT Personal Income Tax in Vietnam:

 

Interest earned on deposit from the bank or from life insurance contracts;

Overseas remittance, retirement pension, scholarship;

Income from compensation for insurance contracts or from charity funds;

Yeah thats like nothing? 

Doesn't include stocks, dividens, salary, rental income etc

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37 minutes ago, singking said:

It is these individuals who ruin it for everyone else irrespective of which country.

Rednecks/bogans are not the problem. The government is targeting expats and long-term stayers, who for the most part are law-abiding civilized people with money.

 

22 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Thailand is prolly one of the least xenophobic country in Asia - did you ever spend time in Korea or Japan? I am not saying it's not xenophobic here but the rest is worse.

True. Having lived in Japan, Thais are refreshingly far more open-minded. In Japan 90% of landlords will not rent to a foreigner. There are establishments you cannot enter as a foreigner. The sex trade is pretty much reserved for Japanese men only, with few exceptions. The grand majority of Japanese women would not even consider marrying a foreigner. Korea is even worse and even taxi drivers might refuse to take a foreigner - happened to me a few times.

 

I'm not sure how Vietnamese view foreigners, but at least in my experience the places I felt most welcome by the local people (not the government) in Asia are Thailand and Philippines, and maybe Cambodia. Japan/Korea/Taiwan/etc the locals range from xenophobic to actively racist. Ohh, when I say locals I mean normal people in Bangkok - not that Isaan girl you picked up at a bar, lol.

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1 hour ago, Beggar said:

What also worries my is the Agent Orange that the US used there during the war. A lot of food might be/is not very healthy because of this. 

Do you prefer the banned pesticides that are definitely used here. 

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1 hour ago, thecyclist said:

Actually, it is most Thais :Arguably one of the most xenophobic countries in the world. I would say they don't even consider us farangs fully human (absolutely nothing to do with age, as a previous poster suggested:it's a racial thing). And it's not from the top down, it permeates the whole of Thai society. A 3-year old has learned it already, when they point you out to their parents and say 5555 a farang. 

It's an Asian thing, not a Thai thing.

 

If anything, pointing out "hahaha farang" is becoming a lot rarer than in the past, at least in Thailand. Yet it's still quite common in Vietnam and China. No idea why the Chinese influenced countries have such a high rate of xenophobia, even in relatively touristy Vietnam step away from the tourist areas and go somewhere 20-30km away and you suddenly receive weird stares and hellos from the children. Many foreigners like receiving "hellos" but to me it becomes old after a while and rather than being friendly, it signals you are an outsider and can never be considered the same as them. So I view it more as a sign of poor education and mild xenophobia, even if it seems nice. I mean, a smile would be enough but no need to be reminded you are a foreigner every 2 seconds.

 

I can't remember the last time a Thai kid hellod me and I'm pretty familiar with Thailand, I go to all the most rural areas quite regularly. 15-20 years ago it was different - but these days no one really notices you anymore.

 

In Vietnam, China and other countries they still do. In Myanmar, staring is also less common despite there being far fewer foreigners in that country, but could be because Myanmar is more multicultural. They have a lot of Indian people and there are also Anglo-Burmese and Anglo-Indians. If you see people of different ethnic groups everyday then a westerner is suddenly not all that interesting. Whereas in Vietnam and China there is very little ethnic diversity. Ditto for Korea and Japan.

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9 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

Yes sure, people who don't have a motor vehicle usually don't die in traffic accidents.

 

Thailand 60 deaths per 100.000 motor vehicles

 

Vietnam 55 deaths per 100.000

 

Hardly a 64% difference, but if it suits your agenda, why not post some false news.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

And even by population 32 vs 26 is also hardly a 64% difference

 

http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.A997

 

Thailand in 2016 had 24.237 traffic deaths while Vietnam in the same year had 22.419 deaths.

 

Would love to see a source for your figures

Indeed. Vietnam is an even more dangerous place to drive than Thailand, on average. I have done it and I know what I'm talking about. Lots more motorcycles there, slower traffic speeds, but almost as many deaths. They have fewer vehicles on the road there, about 8 times fewer cars although more motorcycles.

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3 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

Yes sure, people who don't have a motor vehicle usually don't die in traffic accidents.

 

Thailand 60 deaths per 100.000 motor vehicles

 

Vietnam 55 deaths per 100.000

 

Hardly a 64% difference, but if it suits your agenda, why not post some false news.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

And even by population 32 vs 24 is also hardly a 64% difference

You confine your comparison to motor vehicles only. Why don't you include motor cycles, they cause deaths also. I know it suits your agenda. 

The facts are:

For 2018 the road toll death rate per 100,000 in Thailand was 32.7. That was a long way ahead of Vietnam at 26.7.

Taken from the World Health Organisation report.

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55 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Rednecks/bogans are not the problem. The government is targeting expats and long-term stayers, who for the most part are law-abiding civilized people with money.

 

True. Having lived in Japan, Thais are refreshingly far more open-minded. In Japan 90% of landlords will not rent to a foreigner. There are establishments you cannot enter as a foreigner. The sex trade is pretty much reserved for Japanese men only, with few exceptions. The grand majority of Japanese women would not even consider marrying a foreigner. Korea is even worse and even taxi drivers might refuse to take a foreigner - happened to me a few times.

 

I'm not sure how Vietnamese view foreigners, but at least in my experience the places I felt most welcome by the local people (not the government) in Asia are Thailand and Philippines, and maybe Cambodia. Japan/Korea/Taiwan/etc the locals range from xenophobic to actively racist. Ohh, when I say locals I mean normal people in Bangkok - not that Isaan girl you picked up at a bar, lol.

I agree with your first paragraph in general, although I disagree with the conspiracy theory floating around in expat circles that the government here is trying to get rid of all foreigners, especially westerners. They are instead trying to get rid of what the British call "riff-raff" by removing long-staying foreigners on the wrong visas (such as tourist visas) and upping the anti for retirement visas to ensure only relatively high-net worth individuals can remain. So they are "cleaning up" the country not to get rid of foreigners per se, but less desirable foreigners. There's a difference. They may not be going about it in the right way, but in their mind they think they are doing the right thing though I doubt it's based on xenophobia as such, otherwise I would have felt it by now, but I don't.

In all my dealings with Thai immigration it has actually been relatively pleasant for the most part. Exceptions always exist but on average, Thai immigration is far more pleasant than Cambodian immigration and don't get me started on Vietnamese customs officials. Horrible, aggressive and completely uncompromising people. Throwing passports back at tourists, including first time visitors is a common occurrence, especially at land borders. Forget about bringing in a car for tourism purposes. They hate that.

 

The people in all three countries are pretty friendly towards foreigners on the whole, though the Vietnamese have this weird habit of staring at foreigners as soon as you get outside of the tourist/expat areas. It's bizarre...I mean, haven't these people ever seen even any foreigners, who are often located just a short distance away? I once went to a rural area just outside of Nha Trang and was completely surprised by the weird response I received. Smiles and hellos from the kids, everyone crowding around to touch my hair and uncomfortable stares from the older generation. Yet just 30km away, thousands of foreigners, including Russians, Chinese and westerners from other countries were all over the place. It's like these rural folk came from the back of the moon, completely bizarre.

 

Yet when I travel to some isolated place or one which doesn't see many westerners anywhere in Thailand, nobody stares or acts weird. Even the kids rarely say hello and definitely no crowds form.

 

I think it's the mentality. Thais are often on the receiving end of criticism by jaded expats and foreigners, especially on this forum, but as you have correctly pointed out, there is a reason why Thailand hosts more westerners than any other Asian country other than Singapore. Even more than the Philippines I think, although numbers in that country may come close. It's because Thailand is, despite it's faults still far more welcoming than Japan, Korea, China and yes, ultimately, to some extent even Vietnam. Vietnam is fine if you stick to the tourist/expat areas, but it's not a very comfortable place to live if you choose to live out in the sticks. In fact, the government may not allow it and doesn't like foreigners hanging around border areas, except near official crossings.

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57 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Do you prefer the banned pesticides that are definitely used here. 

There is definitely a greater awareness of organic food in Thailand, and a lot [more] available than in Vietnam. Definitely would trust Thai produced food over Vietnamese and that's not only because of agent orange. The latter have a similar mentality to the Chinese, try to get away with whatever they can to save money or increase profits even if it could potentially mean harming somebody. Thais on the whole, don't have this kind of mentality at all.

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57 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Do you prefer the banned pesticides that are definitely used here. 

The same pesticides might be used in Vietnam too. But in addition you have the Dioxin from the Agent Orange. 

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1 hour ago, Cadbury said:

I have lived in Vietnam for 12 years and have a 5 year marriage visa exemption and have lived at the same address for the last 5 years. I have never had to pay off shore dividends earned, offshore pension or bank interest earned in Vietnam.

BTW how long have you lived in Vietnam? Or do you live in Googleland?

 

They didn't catch you tax dodging, great for you...Just because that didn't happen yet doesn't mean what you do is legal.

Why don't you point us to the law that contradicts KPMG, PWC and co and says worldwide income is tax free? Do you really want us to believe the big 4 accounting firms are all wrong??

 

What does google have to do with law in vietnam dude, seriously? Do we not accept it as i used google to find it? You have no arguments except "i got away with it".

You can get away with many things for a short duration of time, most of the time it ends badly.

 

PS: wouldn't write about this in public if i was you.

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