Thailand VS Vietnam? Which one will be better in 5yrs?

[CNXexpat 3,569]

3 hours ago, jessebkk1 said:

There are still not that many foreigners in Vietnam but it's slowing building up.

In March Hanoi was full of foreigners. Not less than in Chiang Mai.

[Fairynuff 3,643]

28 minutes ago, phkauf said:

Unlike China, the internet is open and free

That’s not entirely true, there are fewer restrictions than China for sure but still there are restrictions.

[CNXexpat 3,569]

1 hour ago, Curmudgeonly59 said:

Cost of living?

Simple: VN wins - it's cheaper than Thailand.

I don´t think that the prices of food (except alcohol) are lower than in Thailand (Chiang Mai). But what´s really expensive is to rent a nice house - minimum the double of the price I would pay in Chiang Mai.

[Fairynuff 3,643]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Outside of ASEAN member state visitors, in subsequent years they've expanded the visa-on-arrival scheme to allow visitors of several nationalities visa-exempt entry (proof of return ticket required by airline and inbound immigration).

Since the visa exemption we visit VN much more and always less than 15 days. It’s great that Vietnam recognises the benefits of this policy. I’m always asked at immigration if I have a visa and how long  I’m staying but never been asked to show a return ticket. I’m also often greeted with a smile.

[HeyHeyHey 1,787]

1 minute ago, CNXexpat said:

I don´t think that the prices of food (except alcohol) are lower than in Thailand (Chiang Mai). But what´s really expensive is to rent a nice house - minimum the double of the price I would pay in Chiang Mai.

Food is cheaper overall, if you exclude the lowest level sugar and oil infused street food.

 

Where can you get a hot plate beef steak with an egg and awesome banh mi for 55 THB in Thailand?

 

I also love the fresh veggies which you get a basket with almost every meal.

 

Yes VN doesn't have so many modern houses/condos yet. But shouldn't compare it with CM which is overbuild crap city in the middle of nowhere with toxic air 3-4 months a year.

[gamesgplayemail 509]

And how is weed there ?! Easily available ?

 

 

[4MyEgo 14,852]

On 7/31/2019 at 3:55 PM, 3421abc said:

This constant need to report where you are gives me a feeling the government sees me as guilty until proven otherwise.

Look, it is what it is, governments all around the world change goal posts, it's a matter of keeping your mindset in control and not allowing your emotions/feelings to take over.

 

I don't think any foreigner in any country really feels welcome, think of foreigners back in your homeland, do you think they feel welcome/guilty ? We all have a right to be here, be it Thailand or elsewhere, providing we comply with the rules.

 

If the government doesn't want us here, they will let us know, I think all the changes have come about because of the lax regulations being enforced and then all of a sudden Thailand was a soft target with heaps of farangs here on expired visas, extensions not renewed, etc, etc, etc, so they are doing what other countries have always done, tightened the noose.

 

If you have nothing to hide, have your papers in order, just keep complying, your one of us, just keep doing the right thing.

 

I am off overseas for a 3 week trip soon, and I have to fill in a TM.30 when I get back I think, so it's another form, the 90 days can be done on line I am told or by EMS, but I still do the hour 20 drive and make it a day out with the Mrs, nothing is too hard if you think about it.

 

There are many things here that irk me, and the way I see it instead of getting angry or frustrated is to see it for what it is and say, hey, you have a choice, leave or stay, and if you stay, shut up and put up, if you can't, then leave, and of late, I have been looking at it like this, today I was pi$$ed off by this and that, it took up 5 minutes of my mind space and shook my emotions, I took control of my mindset and relaxed my emotions, tomorrow will be another day, I just have to remember to handle it as I would any issue back home, nowhere is perfect, we just have to acknowledge that in our heads and stops running away, well at least try

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[ThomasThBKK 4,983]

13 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

I have been in Hanoi this March for a week. The food is good but what they call spicy is a joke. The people are friendly and speak mostly good English. No dual pricing for foreigners. What really annoyed me and made me happy to come back to Thailand is the noisy traffic - beep beep everywhere and always. Could not live there. I´ve heard from other people, that Hanoi is the loudest city but don´t know if it´s true. 

 

Because I am curious I checked some real estate FB groups for nice houses like mine to rent or buy in or around Da Nang. The prices are minimum double than in Chiang Mai. 

 

Vietnamese people are called diligent and with their good English I can imagine that the country will become very successful in the near future. If the people become less selfish in the future, I guess Vietnam will become a good place for companies. Another plus: beer is cheap - but the people like to drink smoothies. So nice to see young people sitting in bars beside the street, talking and having fun without alcohol. 

 

No, it's absolutely a horrible place for foreign business, as every other communist country too. 

 

3 hours ago, phkauf said:

Personally I think Vietnam is already ahead of Thailand in many ways. Although Thailand is more modern in some sense, often it's done half-assed and doesn't work well - city planning (or the lack thereof) for example. The main international airports in Vietnam (Hanoi, Saigon and Da Nang) are smaller than BKK, but work quite well and Vietnam Airlines is expanding with service far better than Thai Airways.

The people are great, much in the same way most Thais are, but I feel they are more genuine in their friendship. Yeah there are tourist scams, but that's a worldwide problem. 

Food is a push - both are fantastic. Although cheaper in Vietnam, with better options for Western food in my opinion.

The Vietnamese are hard working, industrious, resourceful people. Thais, let's just say, not so much. The Viet government is a Socialist controlling mess, but seems to be hands off as long as you don't cross the line. The Thai government is a controlling mess that continually screws with you and makes things difficult. Healthcare in Vietnam is scary, so Thailand wins on that front.

Vietnam is also much more open to foreigners and foreign business, it is becoming a good second option to China. 

Vietnam is moving forward at a rapid pace - Thailand is in reverse in fifth gear!

 

There are so many negatives about Vietnam...

 

1) The airports work currently because they have FAR LESS visitors

2) There's definitely less Western Food options and Bangkok is prolly one of the best if not the best city in the world for foodies, from street food over thai restaurants to michelin star places. Nothing anywhere close like that in HMC.

3) The VN government is FAR MORE RESTRICTIVE. Say the wrong thing and you don't get a police visit like Andrew, you vanish from earth.

   Facebook and co are severaly restricted in VN for a reason, Internet generally sucks compared to LOS.

4) VN has WORLDWIDE TAXES ON ALL YOUR INCOME, if they suspect you of dodging taxes you cannot leave the country anymore!! have fun getting out of that mess: https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html

Quote

Residents in Vietnam have to pay tax on their worldwide income at progressive tax rates. Therefore, salary earned from working abroad is taxable in Vietnam.

 

Quote

The employee’s tax finalisation return for the income earned up to the termination of employment contract date must be filed within 45 days after his departure. A foreigner who fails to settle their personal income tax liability could be prevented from leaving the country. In addition, any tax shortfall per the tax finalisation return should be settled by the same deadline.

 

 

5) VIETNAM has the SAME TM30 crap we have here, it's just called different, it's called Article 33 and police visits there are far more likely if you don't do it!! It's the same like here, responsibility of the landlord but the police rips of the foreigners

Quote

To answer your second question, as a foreigner who is permitted to stay in Vietnam for a limited period of time, Article 33 on the Law on Entry, Exit, Transit and Residence of Foreigners in Vietnam does indeed require you to register your residence. The same Article states that it is the responsibility of your landlord to fill out the relevant declaration form and to submit it to the local police authority in the ward where you live. That is why when you check into a hotel in Vietnam, the staff will always ask to see your passport for exactly the same reason.

...

Applying Vietnamese law into actual practice is a different matter. Approach your landlord with what you have just learned and see whether he is now more willing to cooperate. If things go well, you may find that convincing the local police is not as difficult as you may think and your registration will become smoother.

In areas where many foreigners live, the police are supposedly more accustomed to situations like yours and is often more willing to help. So if you find yourself dealing with a stubborn officer, consider moving to a more foreigner-friendly area of town, steering away from situations that may nip your love in the bud…

6) There's NO GOOD visa option at all except dodgy agent business visas. NO retirement visa, NO investment visas, NO Thai elite

7) Property ownership is severly more restricted in Vietnam than in Thailand, not even Vietnamese can OWN land. 

8. Scams, Robbery and Pickpockets, dual pricing, overpayment etc are rampart, worse than Thailand imo

9) Same air pollution problems we have here

10) Banking is super restricted, unlike Thailand, have fun getting your money out of VN

11) See above, stuff like Bitcoin which is totally legal and even regulated in Thailand is completly forbidden in Vietnam and can get you into Jail, just owning it

12) Weird laws, that don't allow you to stay with a girl that's still married to someone else, can result in serious issues: http://oivietnam.com/2015/10/is-marriage-a-legal-prerequisite-to-cohabitation/

Quote

Having said that, the same Law on Marriage and Family does clearly – and obviously – prohibit one from living together with a person who is already married, as well as the cohabitation as husband and wife between people of the same direct blood line, between relatives within three generations, between adoptive parent and adoptive child, et cetera.

13) Healthcare sucks

 

 

So maybe for poor people Vietnam is the place to be as it's cheaper, but everyone who's well off should stay in Thailand for now imo.

 

Grass is greener fallacy as someone else already pointed out ... I was interested in Vietnam too, but i found so many negatives and some of them like worldwide taxation would make it far more expensive to life there for me and that alone is totally not worth it.

[elgenon 1,440]

14 hours ago, SteveK said:

Hit a nerve?

I think you give yourself too much credit.

[4MyEgo 14,852]

15 hours ago, SteveK said:

Why, cuts too close to the bone?

If they didn't want us here, you wouldn't be here.

 

It's all in your head, we all have choices, i.e. comply to their regulations, or leave, simple really.

 

Paranoia will only bring you down, get a grip, you have a right to be here as much as anyone else, as long as you comply with their rules (not the ones you want), their country, not ours, it's not that difficult to fill in a few forms and have money in the bank, if you can't then it's a sad day for you, go to jail, do not collect $200 as the rules are in the game Monopoly.

 

No point in pi$$ing and moaning and groaning over something out of your control.

 

If they want our money, they are smart, if they don't like us, their prerogative, but I find most of them pleasant. There are races that I don't like, they keep it within themselves, as I do and no I am not anti Thai's, I left my country to get away from others, if I mention them I am a racist, so I do as the Thai's do, keep it within.

 

We all got to live in peace oi !

Edited August 1, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[drbeach 1,555]

Cars are not going to get any cheaper in Vietnam. Doesn't matter if it's a result of a free trade deal or not. They'll just use non-tariff barriers to raise the cost. Already Vietnamese car prices are among the highest in the world, and significantly higher than in already expensive Thailand. Driving a car in Vietnam is seen as a privilege for the rich. Just last year, I was informed by my friend that the government there became concerned about what it called a "large number" of "cheap" pickup trucks, mostly imported from Thailand, which is the pickup truck manufacturing hub in the region. In response, the government has decided to whack on a 30% tax increase.

 

Vietnam's infrastructure is still hopelessly inadequate and driving a car there is way more challenging than in Thailand. Parking is quite difficult for cars in downtown city areas - the government is actively discouraging both car ownership and parking spaces. Unlike in Thailand, where even in downtown Bangkok you can find either a back street for parking (or even some main roads, outside of peak periods) or any number of hotel or shopping mall car parks, in HCMC, many of the streets are too narrow for cars and widespread, easy parking is only feasible in some of the newer suburbs, not in the city.

 

So if you can live without a car, and hop on a motorcycle then Vietnam may be the place for you.

 

Personally, what I see happening over the next 5 years is both countries will see improved infrastructure. Both Bangkok and Vietnamese cities like Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi will have more railway lines. Thailand will have at least 3 new expressways open by then - the one to Korat, the one to Kanchanaburi and the extension from Pattaya to Rayong. By then I would also expect ground to have been broken on further projects, such as the Nakorn Pathom to Cha-am expressway, potentially the Rama 2 one as well, also the Hat Yai to Sadao expressway and a number of others. The HSR from Kunming via Boten and Vientiane will likely be at least partially completed on the Thai side, with the Bangkok-Nakorn Ratchasima section being first.

 

In Vietnam there should be an extension to the 54km expressway to the east of the city, which also passes by the proposed new international airport, Long Thanh, with improvements to other main highways such as the complete duplification to 4-lanes of the 1700km long north-south highway between Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, which is already more than halfway complete.

 

Visa rules - it's anyone's guess but mine is that tourist visas and exemptions will be more heavily scrutinized in both countries. Long-term tourists will not be welcome in Thailand unless they are high-net worth individuals and arrive on a METV (which by then could perhaps be valid for 12 months) but for those with money there may be other attractive visa options made available. Vietnam will probably introduce better visa options and start cracking down on perpetual tourists too, but in 2024 they will probably only be where Thailand was back in 2008, meaning they may tolerate people living on tourist visas for a few months, but not for years as is currently the case (and was the case in Thailand until 10-15 years ago).

Edited August 1, 2019 by drbeach

[CNXexpat 3,569]

12 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

dual pricing, overpayment etc are rampart, worse than Thailand imo

What I saw in Hanoi was, that all pay the same at tourist attractions.

 

25 minutes ago, HeyHeyHey said:

But shouldn't compare it with CM which is overbuild crap city in the middle of nowhere with toxic air 3-4 months a year.

Do you only have been in Old Town? I live 20 minutes from the city Center away in a modern bungalow beside a lake in quiet nature, but still in Chiang Mai. What means "in the middle of nowhere"? Because there is no other big city nearby? Because it´s surrounded from beautiful nature? Which city in Vietnam isn´t in the middle of nowhere following your definition of Chiang Mai, where 1 mio. people are living?

When I was in Hanoi last March the air was minimal better than in Chiang Mai, but also very bad. 

 

[drbeach 1,555]

21 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

No, it's absolutely a horrible place for foreign business, as every other communist country too. 

 

 

There are so many negatives about Vietnam...

 

1) The airports work currently because they have FAR LESS visitors

2) There's definitely less Western Food options and Bangkok is prolly one of the best if not the best city in the world for foodies, from street food over thai restaurants to michelin star places. Nothing anywhere close like that in HMC.

3) The VN government is FAR MORE RESTRICTIVE. Say the wrong thing and you don't get a police visit like Andrew, you vanish from earth.

   Facebook and co are severaly restricted in VN for a reason, Internet generally sucks compared to LOS.

4) VN has WORLDWIDE TAXES ON ALL YOUR INCOME, if they suspect you of dodging taxes you cannot leave the country anymore!! have fun getting out of that mess: https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html

 

 

 

5) VIETNAM has the SAME TM30 crap we have here, it's just called different, it's called Article 33 and police visits there are far more likely if you don't do it!! It's the same like here, responsibility of the landlord but the police rips of the foreigners

6) There's NO GOOD visa option at all except dodgy agent business visas. NO retirement visa, NO investment visas, NO Thai elite

7) Property ownership is severly more restricted in Vietnam than in Thailand, not even Vietnamese can OWN land. 

8. Scams, Robbery and Pickpockets, dual pricing, overpayment etc are rampart, worse than Thailand imo

9) Same air pollution problems we have here

10) Banking is super restricted, unlike Thailand, have fun getting your money out of VN

11) See above, stuff like Bitcoin which is totally legal and even regulated in Thailand is completly forbidden in Vietnam and can get you into Jail, just owning it

12) Weird laws, that don't allow you to stay with a girl that's still married to someone else, can result in serious issues: http://oivietnam.com/2015/10/is-marriage-a-legal-prerequisite-to-cohabitation/

13) Healthcare sucks

 

 

So maybe for poor people Vietnam is the place to be as it's cheaper, but everyone who's well off should stay in Thailand for now imo.

 

Grass is greener fallacy as someone else already pointed out ... I was interested in Vietnam too, but i found so many negatives and some of them like worldwide taxation would make it far more expensive to life there for me and that alone is totally not worth it.

I agree with all this. Banking - very difficult to make a deposit into your own account in Vietnam. Dual pricing is worse than Thailand in unofficial ways - that is, food vendors and restaurants are somewhat more likely to overcharge foreigners.

 

However, government imposed dual pricing, which was very widespread until 2002, is now largely a thing of the past. There are still a few places that practice it (for example, the Imperial Palace in Hue and apparently one of the museums in Saigon) but it's rather uncommon when compared to Thailand's widespread practice of dual pricing at national parks, museums, temples and other tourist attractions (such as water parks). In some of the latter, expats should be able to receive the local price, but rarely at national parks anymore, except smaller, less visited ones. I am not aware of there being any dual pricing policy at Vietnamese national parks, but as I have only kinda driven past them and never properly entered any, I can't really say.

[Beggar 2,399]

16 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

VN has WORLDWIDE TAXES ON ALL YOUR INCOME, if they suspect you of dodging taxes you cannot leave the country anymore!! have fun getting out of that mess: https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/vietnam-income-tax.html

You just have destroyed my dream :-((( but I am grateful for this. So I would need at least 2 countries to avoid to stay too many days in Vietnam. What also worries my is the Agent Orange that the US used there during the war. A lot of food might be/is not very healthy because of this. 

[thecyclist 721]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

Crossing the road is far easier in Vietnam........IF you do as the locals do. Step onto the road while looking at the traffic and walk slowly and deliberately across the road, the traffic will avoid you. Unnerving at first, but it does work. I would not try that in Thailand!  

Yes, that is the way a lot of locals cross a road, a very risky and scary option.I live in a medium-sized city in Vietnam now, and hardly an hour goes by without hearing an ambulance siren. 9000 road fatalities per year in Vietnam, significantly lower than Thailand, but still frighteningly high. 

The constant, most of the time completely unnecessary, beep beep is a pain in the neck. 

So in both countries the traffic is in different ways a mess. What's different is that when you fly into rage over some maniac cutting you off in a dangerous way, the Vietnamese just smile at you, while a lot of Thais well  rage and swear back at you, something which can easily get physically. It's all about face in Thailand, and being yelled at by a farang khee nok is about as great as a loss of face can get.