Minister's speed proposal stuns Thailand: Collision at 120 kmph same as falling 19 stories, says media

[oobar]

9 hours ago, les Dennis said:

Does anybody know of anyone that has had a legitimate speeding fine under the current law ?

Me.

[lvr181]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

They said that studies showed unequivocally that speed kills. 

And what studies were those? Speed certainly increases the severity of the crash but does not necessarily kill.

Driving or riding TOO FAST FOR THE CONDITIONS causes crashes and possible death! And it does not matter what the arbitary "speed limit" is.

 

Now, define "speed"?

[Samuel Smith]

15 minutes ago, essox essox said:

so why did you pay if you were doing LESS than the speed limit ON THAT ROAD ????

Only roads with 120kph speed limit are the Bangkok ringroads.  Every where else is 90 ???? 

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, Chelseafan said:

Theres a couple of points here.

 

The braking distances were set in the 1960/70's where cars were god-damned awful. Technology has come a long way since. Secondly, there is no way anyone is going to leave a 96m gap on the M1 driving at 70mph as cars will fill that gap up very quickly leading you to have to brake to let them in. I don't disagree with the information, its just not practical in today's age with more cars on the road.

 

 

I take what you're saying completely. Being an old fogey, I just happened to remember about it and saw it's still being used.

 

Yes, I'm sure things have changed now, plus your comment about leaving a gap - in the UK is not easy - in Thailand it's more than impossible to prevent tailgating by leaving a gap.

I just let others push in front if they want to fill the gap, you're not exactly travelling backwards even if fifty vehicles keep filling the gap you leave in front of you.

 

I translated it into Thai to try and get my family to understand the idea of stopping distances against speed.

 

[sherwood]

Just tell them that the earth is round, that will keep them of your back for weeks

while they try to figure that one out.

[zyphodb]

2 hours ago, essox essox said:

so why did you pay if you were doing LESS than the speed limit ON THAT ROAD ????

The speed limit was 90 

[whaleboneman]

12 hours ago, dwcrist said:

If you're worried about keeping speeds at acceptable comparable levels of building floors to fall from, what is an acceptable floor to fall from, 1 - 1.5? And how many kph does that translate to, ~30kph? Now tell me that you want that to be the speed limit.

 

Yes, the higher the speed the greater the damage/risk in the case of crashes. But the solution is not to make crashes benign, it should be to reduce crashes. Thais kill themselves and each other on the roads at all speeds because of the idiotic, selfish, and absent minded maneuvers they try to pull.

 

Too low speed limits like 80-90kph actually increase risk as it encourages people to exceed the speed limit and causes more overtaking and weaving between lanes.

 

Increase the speed limit and you will not see a significant or any rise in deaths. And yes, fine the slow drivers (especially trucks) for not making way in the right lane. This and other similar traffic controls is what is needed to curb the Thai driver psyche to reduce crashes/fatalities at all speeds.

 

 

I have to disagree. In British Columbia, Canada, the speed limits on some highways were raised to 120 kph a few years ago. The accident and death rates went up and it was decided to lower them back to 110 kph. And compared to Thai drivers, we are like angels on the roads.

[Issannative]

Up down left right it will never make any difference if th people you are trying to educate are unwilling

Sent from my LDN-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Zamboni Bangkok]

That’s Funny. When I read the headline that Thai society was stunned by the new speed limit proposals.... I THOUGHT IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WE’RE ACTUALLY LOWERING THEM! Silly me.

[jabis]

2 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

I have to disagree. In British Columbia, Canada, the speed limits on some highways were raised to 120 kph a few years ago. The accident and death rates went up and it was decided to lower them back to 110 kph. And compared to Thai drivers, we are like angels on the roads.

Any stats on that or are you just blowing numbers from your ass? The one thing we do agree is the driving education that's lacking here in the hub of fatal accidents, tho enforcing the laws might have a distinct difference in comparison ????

PS. My country has 120km/h limits on motorways, and those are the least fatal roads in the whole country - 1 lane per way 100km/h limits much more deadly in the stats, though been used as cash cows for the govt with cameras where you set up a 1km lane suddenly dropping the limit with 20km/h per straight and then after camera returning it to previous one... 

[bimmerbob]

yes, speed kills....

the proposal is " to increase speeds up to 120 kilometer per hour on roads of four lanes and up"

[jabis]

18 minutes ago, bimmerbob said:

yes, speed kills....

the proposal is " to increase speeds up to 120 kilometer per hour on roads of four lanes and up"

Tell that to germans with their autobahns ???? 
No - stupidity kills.

I'd rather have the motor & expressways evaluated where it is suitable to raise the limit, you know like surveys they do on developed countries and assess how the traffic flow will be affected - but yet again TiT - no matter what limit there is, there'll be 90/100 persons ignoring whatever it reads on the roadside...

[AWillOz]

I can't honestly say that I've been in a taxi to the Airport from Yan Nawa and NOT been doing 120km/h. 

[DjSiN]

22 hours ago, Victornoir said:

2 tickets for speeding at radar control (500b) and once stopped for the same reasons (400 b and a coke offered).

120 km/h is a good speed on 4-lane highways

 

Yes!  

3 delivered in mail from cameras and two roadside. All 500baht per fine. 

May least it’s not Australia, I’d be broke and no licence by now. 

 

Agreed, speed shld be 120 on large wide motor ways. 

Even 80 on the two lane highway is stupid slow. Shld be 110. 

 

Speed isn’t the root cause, and reducing speed is just a band aid solution, as Australia is now realising. Their massive campaign has failed. What it has achieved tho is Billions in revenue.  

 

Educate drivers. Police the ones that are useless and dangerous. Like someone else mentioned, <deleted> is with these uturns on a major highway? Stupid and dangerous. 

 

Drunk driving/riding and no helmets, that’s ur biggest killer. Start there. 

[canopy]

8 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

In British Columbia, Canada...The accident and death rates went up

Perhaps snow and ice was a factor.

 

[bluesofa]

1 minute ago, canopy said:

8 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

In British Columbia, Canada...The accident and death rates went up

Perhaps snow and ice was a factor.

They could probably try the same excuse here?

Or is it the 'wrong type of snow' - from the British Rail Book Of Good Excuses.

[johnny49r]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

Influential media Thai Rath has said that Thai society has been "stunned" by proposals from the transport minister to increase speeds up to 120 kilometer per hour on roads of four lanes and up.

I think they got it wrong, 120 Km would be a drastic reduction in average speeds on any road!

Seriously, if the dizzy transport minister wanted to make any changes, he would first need law enforcement. Creating another law doesn't solve anything.

[hotchilli]

On 8/2/2019 at 9:19 AM, RotBenz8888 said:

Thai roads are like one big racetrack, but without rules. 

Akin to a demolition derby..... 

[kwak250]

16 hours ago, Samuel Smith said:

snap!  plus 1000bt for 125kph on hwy1 north of Bangkok

What's with the expressway's 80kph limit in places as if you try to keep to 80 its dangerous when cars are flying past at 120+.

Had a few tickets going over 100 on the hwy but as long as your under 100 i have never been fined.

Set my cruise control to 100 and been fine free for 2 years

[MAGA 2020]

On 8/2/2019 at 9:19 AM, canopy said:

Collisions are caused by bad driving; too fast for conditions, dangerous maneuvers, falling asleep, drunk driving, etc. These types of accidents will happen at any speed. Trying to keep people falling from "only" 14 stories (90k/h) is no solution at all. 

 

Don't forget brake failures 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

 

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. 

[mike324]

Average speeds on highways seems to be at 120 km/hr already on the over taking lane. Speed doesn't kill...its lack of common sense and education 

 

Strict enforcement on basic traffic laws would save more lives, majority of the road deaths are motorcycle deaths....

[hansnl]

On 8/2/2019 at 9:19 AM, canopy said:

Collisions are caused by bad driving; too fast for conditions, dangerous maneuvers, falling asleep, drunk driving, etc. These types of accidents will happen at any speed. Trying to keep people falling from "only" 14 stories (90k/h) is no solution at all. 

 

But giving the people the chance to fall from much higher and condoning it, isn't a solution even worth contemplating.

It is a fact, however that lower speeds give less accidents, less deaths, less wounded, less impact and costs for society, and less impact on the enviroment.

 

 

[drbeach]

On 8/2/2019 at 9:19 AM, canopy said:

Collisions are caused by bad driving; too fast for conditions, dangerous maneuvers, falling asleep, drunk driving, etc. These types of accidents will happen at any speed. Trying to keep people falling from "only" 14 stories (90k/h) is no solution at all. 

 

Exactly.

 

As some newspaper reports have stated as well as awake members on this and other forums, the average speed on many Thai highways is already 110 or 120km/h therefore I see no issue with increasing the speed limit to this level when most drivers are already driving at these speeds. I'm one of them too. I only slow down for speed cameras, otherwise it's 110-120km/h all the way. Which is a safe speed on a divided highway. In outback Australia's Northern Territory, there is a 130km/h speed limit on a single lane highway without any shoulders! In other states the same roads still have a 110km/h limit despite being equally narrow. Yet we have people here and in the media arguing that Thai highways with 4-6 lanes and generous road shoulders can't handle higher speeds than a paltry 90km/h when clearly most drivers are already driving at higher speeds than this anyway.

 

The media here is starting to mimic the same ridiculous propaganda tactics as back in the west, except that most of the Thai public isn't buying it.

 

90km/h is way too slow for most well built multi-lane highways. Eliminate the unnecessary u-turn bays (which is actually progressively happening), replacing them with u-turn bridges or u-turns underneath bridges and manage lane discipline better and then raise the speed limits.

 

Personally I think 100 or 110km/h on some roads would probably have gone over better, but what I think needs to be done is an intermediate speed limit needs to be introduced and applied to 4-lane roads. In most cases, 4-lane roads should be 100 or 110km/h limited throughout the country, with some sections possibly suited to 120km/h. 80-90km/h limits are suited to more built up areas, and sections of road with curves and in mountainous areas.

[drbeach]

4 hours ago, kwak250 said:

What's with the expressway's 80kph limit in places as if you try to keep to 80 its dangerous when cars are flying past at 120+.

Had a few tickets going over 100 on the hwy but as long as your under 100 i have never been fined.

Set my cruise control to 100 and been fine free for 2 years

My experience has been - on the highways outside of Bangkok with a 90km/h speed limit you generally only get fined or pulled over if you do more than 120km/h. That's the tolerance they allow you. 110km/h is the limit near Bang Pa-in on Asia highway heading towards Ayuttaya, elsewhere it's 120. I know this because I've never been fined or pulled over for doing less or equal to 120 or (110 at the km 7.5 camera on Asia highway).

 

On the other hand, I am appalled by the low tolerance on the eastern outer ring road. There's a single speed camera at km5 now - used to be a second one at km 18 but has since been removed. I got caught doing 127 there once and received a fine. Also got caught doing 139 and received the same fine. There should really be a 10-15km/h tolerance. 7km/h over the limit on a road with a 120km/h limit should not receive a fine. What a joke.

 

Even in the USA, most states don't stop you for doing less than or equal to 5mph (8km/h) over the limit on interstates and expressways. In many states the tolerance even goes up to 10 or 15mph.
 

If Thailand continues the same trend as on the eastern outer ring road it will soon turn into a nanny state like Singapore (and Australia).

[drbeach]

6 hours ago, johnny49r said:

I think they got it wrong, 120 Km would be a drastic reduction in average speeds on any road!

Seriously, if the dizzy transport minister wanted to make any changes, he would first need law enforcement. Creating another law doesn't solve anything.

I don't think Thai society is "stumped" at all, only the media is.

 

Most Thais welcome this, because most Thais don't have a "nanny state" mindset. At least not yet.

[drbeach]

On 8/2/2019 at 10:22 AM, Lungstib said:

For those of us around Chiang Mai and Rai it makes no difference because we don't have that type of road. I imagine much of the country is the same, 3 lanes but one hard shoulder, 2 real lanes and U-turns, parked cars and crossing people to deal with. In these conditions even 90kph is dangerous most of the time. Especially when drivers are playing with phones, watching movies and holding kids in their laps. But it all makes no difference, since when did speed limits actually limit speeds here in Thailand.

Yes you do. You have 4 lanes from Chiang Rai heading to Mae Sai, 4-8 lanes heading to Chiang Saen, 4-lanes all the way down to Bangkok via Phayao, Lampang, Tak and Nakorn Sawan and at least part of the way to Chiang Mai. Eventually all of Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai will be 4-lanes, you can bet on that. Chiang Mai to Lampang is also 4-lanes all the way.

 

Depending on the section, 120km/h might be too fast, but if certain sections were made limited access (such as Chiang Mai to Lamphun) 120km/h would be realistic with 100 or 110 limits on other 4-lane sections. In Chiang Rai, 100 or 110 limits would work on most 90km/h 4-lane roads provided you're out of the city and there's no traffic lights.

 

Most major highways in Thailand are 4-lanes (6-8 lanes in busier areas and near Bangkok) these days. You could drive from Mae Sai to Sadao (Burmese to Malaysian borders) over 2000 km without leaving a divided highway.

 

People crossing major highways in Thailand? Almost never happens. We're not in Myanmar or India. Except for the occasional mentally ill maniac, there is too much traffic, the roads are too wide and speeds are too fast for anyone to be daft enough to risk crossing the road. Especially when you have pedestrian overpass bridges everywhere.

[kwak250]

52 minutes ago, drbeach said:

My experience has been - on the highways outside of Bangkok with a 90km/h speed limit you generally only get fined or pulled over if you do more than 120km/h. That's the tolerance they allow you. 110km/h is the limit near Bang Pa-in on Asia highway heading towards Ayuttaya, elsewhere it's 120. I know this because I've never been fined or pulled over for doing less or equal to 120 or (110 at the km 7.5 camera on Asia highway).

 

On the other hand, I am appalled by the low tolerance on the eastern outer ring road. There's a single speed camera at km5 now - used to be a second one at km 18 but has since been removed. I got caught doing 127 there once and received a fine. Also got caught doing 139 and received the same fine. There should really be a 10-15km/h tolerance. 7km/h over the limit on a road with a 120km/h limit should not receive a fine. What a joke.

 

Even in the USA, most states don't stop you for doing less than or equal to 5mph (8km/h) over the limit on interstates and expressways. In many states the tolerance even goes up to 10 or 15mph.
 

If Thailand continues the same trend as on the eastern outer ring road it will soon turn into a nanny state like Singapore (and Australia).

Hi it might have changed as 2 years ago i got a full house coming back from Bangkok-Phitsanulok.

Had 3 tickets in the post .

Ayutthaya 139kph

Sing Buri 111kph

Chai Nat 108kph

The local post office where i pay the fines say anything over 100kph and you will get a fine .

Like i say it might have changed but 500 baht can be spent better than going slightly over.

Now i wonder if that license spray works that makes the plate blank?

 

[JeffreyO]

I race at tracks, I have a 2017 Mustang, an MR2 , a Celica, a wide range of vehicles and let me just say this won't change anything.  There's nothing wrong with the speed limits.  The problem is enforcement.

[canopy]

16 hours ago, hansnl said:

lower speeds give less accidents, less deaths, less wounded, less impact and costs for society, and less impact on the enviroment.

I think the naysayers are simply resisting change. You could bring that exact laundry list of complaints above if the government proposed raising the speed from 10 to 20. So why aren't you jumping up and down that these facts prove we need the speed limit to be 10km/h? And by the way why are you omitting the advantages to society of higher speed limits? Seems rather biased.

 

We had this exact same argument in America when the speed limit was locked at 55mph maximum everywhere. Thankfully that nonsense ended, common sense prevailed and higher speeds became common. If all factors are taken in balance, 120 is a comfortable speed and everyone that uses the motorways are already used to this speed in Thailand. I would welcome this proposal and see no good argument against it.