Establishing bank deposits from foreign sources

[Max69xl]

22 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

I take what the Nation says with a helping of salt. They're the ones who hipped up the mandatory health insurance. That said I'm covering all bases for this year and have >800 in my account. 

Of course there is no iron clad guarantee anything will work. 

Never had a problem with banks here.

The Nation were actually correct regarding the article about health insurance. They wrote Long Stay Visa O-A. They never mentioned health insurance for 1 year retirement extension. The BS came from people in different forums who obviously can't read, and that spoked everybody else. The requirement for insurance already exists when you apply for an O-X Visa, and it's totally possible it will be the same for the O-A as well. But who knows when?

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Different forms.

If you bank with KK and the transfer goes through their HQ to your local branch, then you request a credit advice receipt for proof of the International transfer.

 

If you bank with BKK and the transfer goes through KK HQ, then you request an FET form from KK.

The FET form is only available from one of KK's International Trade centres, which are far and few between.

 

Simpler to find out if your IO will accept other forms of proof, such as TW's pdf receipts.

 

If you bank with Bangkok Bank and the money goes through KK, Bangkok Bank will get you the correct form without any problem. At least in Chonburi. But, I read one post about this guy who's banking with KK. His money went through Bangkok Bank, and even when he had a letter from his bank, the IO refused to issue the extension.  

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, Isaan Alan said:

3 years ago my friend in Samui had his money in a fixed interest account on the advice of the manager of BKK Bank. The immigration officer said the money was not liquid and rejected his application. He has used agents every year since to make the pain of Thai bureaucratic randomness go away.

 

You must have a FDA where there are no requirements other than loss of interest if you withdraw money. No problem what so ever at Chonburi Immigration. Maybe the officer at Samui Immigration didn't know the differences between different kinds of FDA?

[Max69xl]

44 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

I believe Kasikorn calls them Credit Advices . Its still not clear if immigration will look at these.

One guy wrote that he showed the immigration officer the Credit Advices, but he refused to look at them. I guess it will take some time for immigration to understand how money gets routed. 

[Fairynuff]

21 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

One guy wrote that he showed the immigration officer the Credit Advices, but he refused to look at them. I guess it will take some time for immigration to understand how money gets routed. 

Unless it’s routed into their pockets

[sumrit]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

I believe Kasikorn calls them Credit Advices . Its still not clear if immigration will look at these.

Every report on here says Immigration are accepting the paperwork supplied. Not one single report on here (so far) where somebody has been refused an extension because they have used TW for transfers.

[Max69xl]

19 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Every report on here says Immigration are accepting the paperwork supplied. Not one single report on here (so far) where somebody has been refused an extension because they have used TW for transfers.

It's not about using TW, it's about how the money gets routed.It must say FTT in the bank book for every transfer. There has been refused extensions because of that. If you're lucky the bank can help you. TW knows about the problem and now you can choose the correct type of transfer to your bank in Thailand.

[gk10002000]

On 8/7/2019 at 10:34 PM, mtls2005 said:

From a translation of the Police Order...

 

"Evidence showing income, such as pension or interest received or dividend received"

 

 

 

the keyword is "income", the source of which could, but is not limited to the three examples given. It could be other sources (IRA/Roth, annuity, capital gains, rent received, subsidy, lottery/gambling winnings, inheritance, to name just a few), but perhaps not a result of illegal activities.

 

 

 

Can't address the "timing" issue. Seen some IO quotes about requiring "consistency", but who knows what that really means or how it could be interpreted.

 

A pattern of early in the month qualifying foreign transfers, with one last day of the month, seems reasonable, especially if it is due to some holiday/timing issue.

 

To be safe, maybe better to deposit it in the home country, then make a transfer?

 

 

sadly the evidence showing income from whatever source is no longer followed or sufficient.  The Thais at the moment for the income method are requiring the monthly transfer in from a foreign source, none of which shows any proof or evidence of an income source.  One coujld simple be spending down a lump sum, or in some cases spending borrowed money.  Monthly transfers show no proof of a pension, royalties, dividends or any other sort of future sustainability which I am pretty sure was the original intent ergo the use and reference to pensions

[OJAS]

17 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Do you really think that Bangkok Bank wouldn't return the money when it was stolen by an employee? You seem a bit paranoid.

The issue I was raising was not about whether or not Bangkok Bank would have refunded the embezzled money. But rather (considerably more on topic as far as this particular thread is concerned than your facetious comment) whether any foreigners whose accounts had been raided by the bent employee would have unwittingly found themselves temporarily - but crucially - short on the required 400k/800k balances for their next annual extension applications. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by OJAS

[jacko45k]

24 minutes ago, OJAS said:

would have unwittingly found themselves temporarily - but crucially - short on the required 400k/800k balances for their next annual extension applications.

I am sure they would and it would be problematic. Although we are not yet at the point in time of knowing whether the last year's balance will be reviewed for conformity, and what the retroactive actions will be for failings. 

My FD has not been plundered yet, but I get calls from the bank often, from people who obviously are allowed to stick their noses into all my accounts!

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

My FD has not been plundered yet

And fingers crossed that it never does!

[Bangkok Basha]

CW Immigration flatly refused to accept three deposits to my Bangkok Bank account that were "SMT" instead of "FTT", and denied my renewal in spite of having transferred more than 1m baht during the previous 12 months. Even after I got a letter from TransferWise's correspondent bank- Kasikorn- confirming that the transfers they received from TW and passed along to Bangkok Bank were incoming foreign currency transfers. Go figure.

[NanLaew]

On 8/9/2019 at 10:19 AM, Bangkok Basha said:

... I decided to say <deleted>> it and just return to the U.S. and apply for a new retirement visa there. It's actually much simpler in terms of paperwork. 

Yes, if one has the funds in ones homeland and is 'retired' as determined by the MFA rules, then the O-A is the only logical choice outside of marriage or the Elite thingmie. The added bonus is being able to get out and about, ie leave the country for a reality check, up to 4 times during the first year while the visa is still alive. Then get a 12-month extension just before it expires and do the same although that second year will require getting re-entry permits to keep the extension alive. That's about 2 years of avoiding petty immigration bureacracy and if one gets their re-entry permit at the airport on the day of departure, then it's only a 10-15 minute exercise and you may get lucky and never get to see an actual brown shirt beyond the one stamping you 'gone'.

[Isaan Alan]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Yes, if one has the funds in ones homeland and is 'retired' as determined by the MFA rules, then the O-A is the only logical choice outside of marriage or the Elite thingmie. The added bonus is being able to get out and about, ie leave the country for a reality check, up to 4 times during the first year while the visa is still alive. Then get a 12-month extension just before it expires and do the same although that second year will require getting re-entry permits to keep the extension alive. That's about 2 years of avoiding petty immigration bureacracy and if one gets their re-entry permit at the airport on the day of departure, then it's only a 10-15 minute exercise and you may get lucky and never get to see an actual brown shirt beyond the one stamping you 'gone'.

Yes don't forget the re-entry permit for the second year. If you leave Thailand close  to the end of the first year, you then get another year (up to the 2 year anniversary of the initial entry into Thailand to be precise) but without auto reentry like the first year has.

[Max69xl]

30 minutes ago, Isaan Alan said:

Yes don't forget the re-entry permit for the second year. If you leave Thailand close  to the end of the first year, you then get another year (up to the 2 year anniversary of the initial entry into Thailand to be precise) but without auto reentry like the first year has.

"That's about 2 years of avoiding petty immigration bureaucracy."

One question about that sentence:

What kind of immigration bureaucracy do you avoid having an O-A Visa compared to a Non-imm O Retirement Visa with a 1 year extension incl. multiple re-entry?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/10/2019 at 12:42 PM, Tanoshi said:

The new requirement states proof of overseas transfers to a Thai bank of 65K per month, not a Pension letter (unless an Embassy Income letter). His extension was refused on the basis of his Pension letter.

 

That's B.S. in the extreme!!!

 

If I understand your explanation right, the guy had done the required monthly foreign transfers in the correct amounts and had the bank documentation to verify that. But because his home country pension letter didn't correspond to the same amount, they denied his extension....  Crazy!!!!

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/11/2019 at 8:58 PM, sumrit said:

When making transfers, TW now have a new option in the 'reason for transfer' dropdown box that says something like long term stay in Thailand.Providing you've requested your preferred Thai bank route it will now be transferred correctly, giving a FTT code.

 

That dropdown menu option with Transferwise for the transfer reason being retirement/longstay in Thailand is a relatively recent change in their system and coding...

 

So I guess the question is, for those here that have been and will be using it, will it prove to be a RELIABLE method over time for assuring their transfers are correctly coded as foreign? Meaning, each and every time without exception, both now and in the months ahead?

 

Their prior "call us ahead of time" or "place a notation on your account" deals were also supposed to result in foreign coded transfers. But as those methods played out over time, they obviously did NOT work reliably and consistently, leading to all kinds of problems for TFW users here needing to satisfy Thai Immigration.

 

From the reports I've read here lately, the dropdown menu method and choosing Thailand seems to be working correctly now in leading to foreign coded transfers. But the question is, will that continue and will it be reliable over time?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/13/2019 at 12:53 PM, FredGallaher said:

Its easy to go on line and do it. K Bank sends an SMS when it arrives. BOA sends confirmation via e-mail. 

 

What's Bank of America charging you for the monthly intl wire transfers, $50 or $65 per month?

[Max69xl]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's B.S. in the extreme!!!

 

If I understand your explanation right, the guy had done the required monthly foreign transfers in the correct amounts and had the bank documentation to verify that. But because his home country pension letter didn't correspond to the same amount, they denied his extension....  Crazy!!!!

 

Tanoshi is not completely correct.

There are only 4 embassies that stopped issuing income letters regarding pension: US,UK, Australia and for a strange reason,Denmark. Retired expats from those 4 countries needs from Jan 1, bank letters from a Thai bank and the bank book must show foreign (international) transfers of at least 65k the correct way = FTT for EVERY month. Expats from the rest of the world MUST show income letters from their embassies just like before. That income letter shows your total pension,and,the sum after tax. Immigration takes that sum, and check the present exchange rate = TT-rate, I guess they use Bangkok Bank. If you're not lucky because of a falling exchange rate, maybe the conversion shows that you are below 65k,then, no Visa or 1 year extension at Immigration. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/13/2019 at 3:15 PM, khm2412 said:

However, when this happen you are able to obtain the FET forms from the bank that was used to send out the payment. For more information please refer to our FAQ page on THB Transfers: FET forms."

 

That's all fine well and good, TFW is still leaving themselves an out for when their system doesn't work as they're saying it's supposed to...

 

The problem, of course, is there have been some reports here of SOME Immigration officers refusing to accept the various alternate documentation methods when the coding on the bank book transfer entry itself is not showing as foreign.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Tanoshi is not completely correct.

There are only 4 embassies that stopped issuing income letters regarding pension: US,UK, Australia and for a strange reason,Denmark. Retired expats from those 4 countries needs from Jan 1, bank letters from a Thai bank and the bank book must show foreign (international) transfers of at least 65k the correct way = FTT for EVERY month. Expats from the rest of the world MUST show income letters from their embassies just like before. That income letter shows your total pension,and,the sum after tax. Immigration takes that sum, and check the present exchange rate = TT-rate, I guess they use Bangkok Bank. If you're not lucky because of a falling exchange rate, maybe the conversion shows that you are below 65k,then, no Visa or 1 year extension at Immigration. 

 I don't believe he was talking about an income affidavits situation. I believe he was talking about a monthly foreign transfers situation, in the absence of an Embassy income affidavit.

 

If I understood his account correctly, the person involved had made the foreign monthly transfers as required. But because the person's supporting documents (pension statements) showed a lesser amount than the actual foreign transfers, the extension was refused.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Max69xl]

27 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That dropdown menu option with Transferwise for the transfer reason being retirement/longstay in Thailand is a relatively recent change in their system and coding...

 

So I guess the question is, for those here that have been and will be using it, will it prove to be a RELIABLE method over time for assuring their transfers are correctly coded as foreign? Meaning, each and every time without exception, both now and in the months ahead?

 

Their prior "call us ahead of time" or "place a notation on your account" deals were also supposed to result in foreign coded transfers. But as those methods played out over time, they obviously did NOT work reliably and consistently, leading to all kinds of problems for TFW users here needing to satisfy Thai Immigration.

 

From the reports I've read here lately, the dropdown menu method and choosing Thailand seems to be working correctly now in leading to foreign coded transfers. But the question is, will that continue and will it be reliable over time?

So far it works properly only if you're banking with Kasikorn Bank or Bangkok Bank. That's the word now.

[Max69xl]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 I don't believe he was talking about an income affidavits situation. I believe he was talking about a monthly foreign transfers situation, in the absence of an Embassy income affidavit.

 

No,he mentioned showing a document saying it was income from pension. If the bank book doesn't show FTT every month, then you're screwed. At least at the moment. It will probably change. The question to be asked: Why doesn't Immigration believe banks when they can show without any doubt that the transfer is foreign. Do they really think thai banks are corrupt? There shouldn't be a reason for showing copies of the bank book.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Max69xl
More info

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

No,he mentioned showing a document saying it was income from pension. If the bank book doesn't show FTT every month, then you're screwed. At least at the moment. It will probably change.

 

Go back and re-read Tanoshi's post. He clearly was talking about a situation where the person involved HAD made all the required monthly foreign transfers for a retirement extension... But then, when asked to show documentation for the SOURCE of those funds, the amount in his pension letter didn't match the monthly foreign transfers amount.

 

The point being, at least according to his account, the person involved HAD made all the required monthly transfers, and was still denied, because his backup documents for the source of the transfers didn't show the same amounts.

 

Quote

 

One of the issues I've witnessed was monthly overseas transfers of between 67-69,000 baht verified by Thai bank statements and bank letter confirming the sole account holders details.

 

They requested supported documentation as the source of income, which was provided in the form of a Pension statement letter.

 

 

[Max69xl]

30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 I don't believe he was talking about an income affidavits situation. I believe he was talking about a monthly foreign transfers situation, in the absence of an Embassy income affidavit.

 

If I understood his account correctly, the person involved had made the foreign monthly transfers as required. But because the person's supporting documents (pension statements) showed a lesser amount than the actual foreign transfers, the extension was refused.

 

 

That's a contradiction in terms.

You must use the income letter from embassies which still issues them. And you also have to go by the new rules from Jan 1 if you come from the US,UK, Australia or Denmark. If immigration requires proof of where the money comes from, you only have to provide a document/affidavit showing you are retired, and who's paying you. You are not supposed to show a statement how much you get.

[Max69xl]

35 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Go back and re-read Tanoshi's post. He clearly was talking about a situation where the person involved HAD made all the required monthly foreign transfers for a retirement extension... But then, when asked to show documentation for the SOURCE of those funds, the amount in his pension letter didn't match the monthly foreign transfers amount.

 

The point being, at least according to his account, the person involved HAD made all the required monthly transfers, and was still denied, because his backup documents for the source of the transfers didn't show the same amounts.

 

 

Yes, you are correct. But "the source of transfers" are not same as a statement showing how much you get. Different Immigration Offices requires different documents. That's the crazy part. Someone told me that Chonburi Immigration doesn't ask for source of transfers. True or not? Don't ask me. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Max69xl
More info

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

And you also have to go by the new rules from Jan 1 if you come from the US,UK, Australia or Denmark. If immigration requires proof of where the money comes from, you only have to provide a document/affidavit showing you are retired, and who's paying you. You are not supposed to show a statement how much you get.

 

I have no idea where you're getting that idea from....

 

When the person doesn't have an Embassy income affidavit because they're from one of the several discontinued countries, and they want to do the foreign monthly transfers method instead, Immigration typically wants to see several things:

 

--the Thai bankbook showing the incoming monthly foreign transfers in the required amounts.

 

--a letter from the Thai bank summarizing/detailing/confirming all the foreign transfers that came into the account during the past year.

 

That seems to be sufficient for most Immigration Offices. But for those offices or officers who decide to ask for backup documentation showing the SOURCE of the foreign funds being transferred into Thailand, yes, they DO want to see the monthly amounts on the backup documents, whether they be Social Security, pension or otherwise. Not just some kind of vague letter that just says who's paying you and that you're retired.

 

In those cases where backup documentation of source is requested, I don't know that the amounts on the bank transfers and the amounts on the income source documents have to match exactly in order to satisfy Immigration. But I'd imagine they at least need to be similar or in the same ballpark, or it's potentially going to cause problems -- as the person in Tanoshi's report discovered.

 

 

[jimmyyy]

Navy federal Credit union charges me 25.00 USD a month to transfer 80,000 Baht into my Kasikorn account and it takes less than 2 hours to arrive.  Been doing this since January and it has not failed one time.  They show up as an International SWIFT, i don't think i will have any problems in January renewing my marriage extension of stay.

[Max69xl]

28 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Last fall the US embassy said they would work with Thai immigration to explain how money is sent and received. This was along side getting SS IDD set up as and alternative. It appears they haven't done this yet.

This was when they announce that the income letters would stop Dec 31, 2018.

Yeah, I read about it in a newsletter from PCEC in Pattaya.

[Tanoshi]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's B.S. in the extreme!!!

 

If I understand your explanation right, the guy had done the required monthly foreign transfers in the correct amounts and had the bank documentation to verify that. But because his home country pension letter didn't correspond to the same amount, they denied his extension....  Crazy!!!!

 

No fact, exactly the same happened to a colleague. 

He had bank statement with proof of between 67-68K per month from overseas transfers.

They requested his Pension statement letter, then totalled his pension and converted using the BKK exchange rate. Due to falling exchange rates, his monthly pension came to less than the required 65K per month and his extension was refused.

They completely dismissed the fact he had several thousand AUD sitting in his Australian bank account, more than enough to top up his monthly transfers to the required amount.

They blamed his Embassy (Australian national) and it's not the first time I've witnessed discrimination towards US, UK and Australians using the income method by way of bank statements, which they also claim creates more work for them.

 

It's totally wrong.