Sterling rout not yet over as no-deal Brexit odds jump - Reuters poll

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, Slip said:

What does this stat say about the UK then?  It's a much higher percentage of the population.

1.3 million people born in the UK live in other EU countries, according to 2017 estimates from the United Nations (UN).

https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/

 

Funnily enough my folks live in Portugal and love it, but they wouldn't be reflected in the figures quoted as officially they are still resident in the UK, so the 1.3 million figure is under-counted by at least 2.

so theres a million more eu citizens living in the uk than british citizens living in the eu[ not forgetting your parents who couldn,t have thought portugal was too clever despite living there,dosen,t that answer your question?

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, juice777 said:

" To spunge; to eat and drink at another's cost. Spunging”

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

do you mean nancy spungeon allegedly murdered by sid vicious?

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

A cab ride to see the queen (not happening) after a no confidence vote would be an attempt at power grabbing, while still being unelectable.

I'm rather alarmed that you didn't notice that this was said tongue in check at an Edinburgh festival event. Of course everyone should know that as the law stands Corbyn, could only go to the Queen if he commanded a majority in the house. I doubt The SNP or Libs would accept him as their leader, it would have to be someone who commanded wide respect, which rules out Corbyn. Anyone attempting to do that without a majority would indeed "be an attempt at power grabbing, while still being unelectable" but it simply can't be done.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

spunging ???????????????????

I believe the "Spelling Nazi" move is frowned on in this forum. It is also embarrassingly petty.

[kingdong]

4 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I believe the "Spelling Nazi" move is frowned on in this forum. It is also embarrassingly petty.

it was only tongue in check.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Your friends in Pattaya are not expats, none of the retirees, pensioners or tourists are. Expats work for a living.

Nevertheless, your boozing buddies enrich the economies of Thai cities and villages. It does not matter why they are here, they are still bringing in cash to local businesses and people. Unlike immigrants in UK who sponge off the benefits system and drain & strain the national infrastructure. 

They are not my friends, I have only visited the outskirts of Pattaya for insurance business meetings a couple of times, I have no desire to see any more of it, it appeared a rather ugly place. 

You are wrong, retirees and pensioners are Expats if they are living here, tourists of course aren't. Look it up, it basically means living away from your home country, it doesn't need to mean working there.

 

THE GREAT IRONY is that it is money from (EU) immigrant taxes that is helping to pay the pensions of all those TV Brexiteers who are complaining about them. - as I said before.

I posted a couple of detailed pieces of research which backs this up, this is not just an idle contention, these are facts. It is mainly Brits sponging off the system, the Immigrants are by and large contributing to it. Is this too embarrassing for you to accept, if so just hang onto your sacred beliefs. Benefit fraud BTW is a tiny cost to the Economy compared to the tax avoidance schemes the Brexit leaders are prepared to ruin the country for.

 

[Slip]

27 minutes ago, kingdong said:

so why not address the points i raised re perhaps migrants are taking out more than they,re putting in instead of relying on biased reports with more slant than the leaning tower of pisa?also re "it would appear", i live and work in london,and have eyes,true i haven,t written a "report" on it,also i was referring to their work patterns, "behaviour" is your word and one i didn,t use,do you always try and put words in peoples mouths instead of responding with facts?

Your 'points' are anecdotal and emotive. Meanwhile the population of the EU is in the region of 500 million, 2 million of which we may agree to agree live in the UK. The population in the UK is in the region of 63 million, 1.3 million of whom live in the EU.  Do you need a calculator? The implied point that I was addressing was that there is something wrong with European countries as 2 million europeans live in the UK.  My response was that a much higher percentage of people from the UK live in europe, which kind of makes your argument look just as stupid as it is.

 

Your accusations of slant and your hyperbolic metaphor are wasted on me, as is your weak attempt at sarcasm. Indeed you are not in a position to write any sort of credible 'report'. 

 

Is fullfact a biased organisation?  I have no idea, I chose it at random from a number of reports offering the same information, and popped another couple of links in there for convenience.   It is dishonest of you to rely on emotive arguments and then accuse other people of not using facts when they actually do.

 

I was referring to your behaviour as being what I object to, and not putting any words in your mouth.  I hope you and your groupie 'like guy' can stop and have a bit of a think before you continue to post and support such drivel in future.

[kingdong]

12 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

They are not my friends, I have only visited the outskirts of Pattaya for insurance business meetings a couple of times, I have no desire to see any more of it, it appeared a rather ugly place. 

You are wrong, retirees and pensioners are Expats if they are living here, tourists of course aren't. Look it up, it basically means living away from your home country, it doesn't need to mean working there.

 

THE GREAT IRONY is that it is money from (EU) immigrant taxes that is helping to pay the pensions of all those TV Brexiteers who are complaining about them. - as I said before.

I posted a couple of detailed pieces of research which backs this up, this is not just an idle contention, these are facts. It is mainly Brits sponging off the system, the Immigrants are by and large contributing to it. Is this too embarrassing for you to accept, if so just hang onto your sacred beliefs. Benefit fraud BTW is a tiny cost to the Economy compared to the tax avoidance schemes the Brexit leaders are prepared to ruin the country for.

 

"the tax avoidance schemes" such as the one used by uber who pay their tax earnt in britain into the netherlands?also a hell of a lot of their "employees"[ another court case pending,uber didn,t agree with the verdict on the previous verdict] are claiming tax and rent rebates so we have the fiasco of british taxpayers subsidising uber who do not pay a brass razoo in tax in the uk,you couldn,t make it up,no wonder people voted to leave.

[kingdong]

12 hours ago, Slip said:

Your 'points' are anecdotal and emotive. Meanwhile the population of the EU is in the region of 500 million, 2 million of which we may agree to agree live in the UK. The population in the UK is in the region of 63 million, 1.3 million of whom live in the EU.  Do you need a calculator? The implied point that I was addressing was that there is something wrong with European countries as 2 million europeans live in the UK.  My response was that a much higher percentage of people from the UK live in europe, which kind of makes your argument look just as stupid as it is.

 

Your accusations of slant and your hyperbolic metaphor are wasted on me, as is your weak attempt at sarcasm. Indeed you are not in a position to write any sort of credible 'report'. 

 

Is fullfact a biased organisation?  I have no idea, I chose it at random from a number of reports offering the same information, and popped another couple of links in there for convenience.   It is dishonest of you to rely on emotive arguments and then accuse other people of not using facts when they actually do.

 

I was referring to your behaviour as being what I object to, and not putting any words in your mouth.  I hope you and your groupie 'like guy' can stop and have a bit of a think before you continue to post and support such drivel in future.

temper,temper,obviously didn,t like what i had to tell you,don,t get so worked up,we,ll be out 31st oct,if you don,t like what i post,don,t read it if thats the state its going to get you in,my "groupie"? bit of a childish thing to say just because someone has a differing viewpoint,have a hot  milky drink and an early night.

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, kingdong said:

"the tax avoidance schemes" such as the one used by uber who pay their tax earnt in britain into the netherlands?also a hell of a lot of their "employees"[ another court case pending,uber didn,t agree with the verdict on the previous verdict] are claiming tax and rent rebates so we have the fiasco of british taxpayers subsidising uber who do not pay a brass razoo in tax in the uk,you couldn,t make it up,no wonder people voted to leave.

Sure. It's the EU's fault

Britain tries to water down EU anti-tax haven measures days after Paradise Papers revelations

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/paradise-papers-tax-avoidance-eu-tax-haven-blacklist-uk-blocking-a8043881.html

[Loiner]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immigrants-contribute-5bn-to-uk-economy-but-non-eu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-24813467
 

I really don’t need your respect, especially when you accuse me of false information then produce your own propaganda.
Immigrants contributing more to the public purse than the average citizen? Total rubbish.

[Nigel Garvie]

30 minutes ago, Loiner said:

I really don’t need your respect, especially when you accuse me of false information then produce your own propaganda.
Immigrants contributing more to the public purse than the average citizen? Total rubbish.

I think by saying "Total rubbish", you are actually saying that you just can't bear to admit that it might be true. It doesn't fit in with your world view, so it can't be true, however much evidence you receive from whatever sources. Rather sad really.

[Loiner]

I think by saying "Total rubbish", you are actually saying that you just can't bear to admit that it might be true. It doesn't fit in with your world view, so it can't be true, however much evidence you receive from whatever sources. Rather sad really.

Sad that you prefer to believe in your total rubbish. Where are all those high tax paying immigrants? There aren’t any.

[Loiner]

I'm rather alarmed that you didn't notice that this was said tongue in check at an Edinburgh festival event. Of course everyone should know that as the law stands Corbyn, could only go to the Queen if he commanded a majority in the house. I doubt The SNP or Libs would accept him as their leader, it would have to be someone who commanded wide respect, which rules out Corbyn. Anyone attempting to do that without a majority would indeed "be an attempt at power grabbing, while still being unelectable" but it simply can't be done.

So Labour are unelectable and won’t try lying, cheating, or every other trick in the book to grab power?

[Loiner]

They are not my friends, I have only visited the outskirts of Pattaya for insurance business meetings a couple of times, I have no desire to see any more of it, it appeared a rather ugly place. 
You are wrong, retirees and pensioners are Expats if they are living here, tourists of course aren't. Look it up, it basically means living away from your home country, it doesn't need to mean working there.
 
THE GREAT IRONY is that it is money from (EU) immigrant taxes that is helping to pay the pensions of all those TV Brexiteers who are complaining about them. - as I said before.
I posted a couple of detailed pieces of research which backs this up, this is not just an idle contention, these are facts. It is mainly Brits sponging off the system, the Immigrants are by and large contributing to it. Is this too embarrassing for you to accept, if so just hang onto your sacred beliefs. Benefit fraud BTW is a tiny cost to the Economy compared to the tax avoidance schemes the Brexit leaders are prepared to ruin the country for.
 

Expats know who the other expats are. You and your dictionary obviously don’t. Is that because you want to be one and not be lumped in with the chaps in Pattaya that you despise?

There’s no great irony in your theory that the immigrants are paying for the pensions. It just isn’t true. There are so many of them that if they did actually contribute so much, all of the pensioners could have a rise! You wouldn’t struggle to exist and could happily ride out the pound’s fluctuations.

[BritManToo]

On 8/11/2019 at 12:05 PM, Nigel Garvie said:

If you don't want to believe this you could tell yourself that government departments and two universities are part of a vast conspiracy to hide the truth from you

Entirely believable IMHO, the lies of 'project fear' have no limits.

Although it's also conceivable that they were all completely incompetent.

 

When I was in University and later in government, I often fabricated results because I was too lazy to do the work. As long as my results were in line with what the head of department wanted, nobody ever checked.

[puck2]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Entirely believable IMHO, the lies of 'project fear' have no limits.

Although it's also conceivable that they were all completely incompetent.

 

When I was in University and later in government, I often fabricated results because I was too lazy to do the work. As long as my results were in line with what the head of department wanted, nobody ever checked.

Have you been in Eton-U.  - like your "friend" Boris  ???

[Nigel Garvie]

21 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Expats know who the other expats are. You and your dictionary obviously don’t. Is that because you want to be one and not be lumped in with the chaps in Pattaya that you despise?

There’s no great irony in your theory that the immigrants are paying for the pensions. It just isn’t true. There are so many of them that if they did actually contribute so much, all of the pensioners could have a rise! You wouldn’t struggle to exist and could happily ride out the pound’s fluctuations.

OK I'll answer you on that. The comment I made about Pattaya was indeed, a bit off the cuff. I don't know anyone there and I certainly do not despise any individual person who I don't know. So I was generalizing, much as you would do about remainers for example. You will, I expect, accept, that the place has earned a certain well established reputation, I was going by that. To what degree that reputation is justified I have no idea, but it appears to be widely acknowledged. There is nothing wrong with using a dictionary, unless you believe that ignorance should be glorified. 

 

About immigrants if you doubt they are contributing overall to UK Plc, please supply factual statistical evidence from reputable sources (Not Tabloids) rather than vague contentions such as "It just isn't true".  

 

 

[Loiner]

OK I'll answer you on that. The comment I made about Pattaya was indeed, a bit off the cuff. I don't know anyone there and I certainly do not despise any individual person who I don't know. So I was generalizing, much as you would do about remainers for example. You will, I expect, accept, that the place has earned a certain well established reputation, I was going by that. To what degree that reputation is justified I have no idea, but it appears to be widely acknowledged. There is nothing wrong with using a dictionary, unless you believe that ignorance should be glorified. 
 
About immigrants if you doubt they are contributing overall to UK Plc, please supply factual statistical evidence from reputable sources (Not Tabloids) rather than vague contentions such as "It just isn't true".  
 
 

Generalising about the chaps in Pattaya while giving a detailed description of what you think their appearance is, what you allege they are doing, plus your imagined reason for them being there? Then you subsequently admit you haven’t been there?? All based on a reputation you admit you have no idea about??? You have you head so far up your own rear end.
It all sums up your party political views and Brexit position. No idea about anything, but will believe anything you think supports your own perceptions. That you would also accept what you believe to be evidence, only from what you deign to be reputable sources, also tells your story of Bull. Maybe The Grauniad and Undependent, but not tabloids, shows your delusions of grandeur.
Don’t hold your breath because I don’t jump through Remainer hoops to bring you information.

[kingdong]

On 8/12/2019 at 8:07 AM, Nigel Garvie said:

I think by saying "Total rubbish", you are actually saying that you just can't bear to admit that it might be true. It doesn't fit in with your world view, so it can't be true, however much evidence you receive from whatever sources. Rather sad really.

is the cost of eu migrants currently incarcerated in hm penal institutes deducted from the wonderfull contribution they make?

[kingdong]

On 8/12/2019 at 1:36 PM, Loiner said:

Expats know who the other expats are. You and your dictionary obviously don’t. Is that because you want to be one and not be lumped in with the chaps in Pattaya that you despise?

There’s no great irony in your theory that the immigrants are paying for the pensions. It just isn’t true. There are so many of them that if they did actually contribute so much, all of the pensioners could have a rise! You wouldn’t struggle to exist and could happily ride out the pound’s fluctuations.

on the subject of pensions,german pensioners recieve a state pension 4 times higher than british state pension.

[Slip]

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

is the cost of eu migrants currently incarcerated in hm penal institutes deducted from the wonderfull contribution they make?

It warms my heart to see you are still choking on this.  I don't imagine it does though, so on the surface of it at least, a fair point well made.

[Loiner]

on the subject of pensions,german pensioners recieve a state pension 4 times higher than british state pension.

That wonderful EU does do much for workers rights. Not enough for UK workers pensions when they retire though. We never enjoyed the same shorter working week or longer holidays.
It was all a con. Especially their lower tax on booze and fags.

[beautifulthailand99]

47 minutes ago, Loiner said:

That wonderful EU does do much for workers rights. Not enough for UK workers pensions when they retire though. We never enjoyed the same shorter working week or longer holidays.
It was all a con. Especially their lower tax on booze and fags.

That would be the British government then not the EU. The rot of working class gains after the war started with Thatcher and the great council house sell-off that ultimately decimated social housing and working class communities. And now like a last desperate gambler in the casino has gone to the roulette table and bet all his dreams on Black - getting out of the EU. Sad really particularly when these dreams are manipulated and festered by a right wing rich elite who will profit greatly if they get their way. But don't worry Loiner we will fight them all the way and get your pounds back first then have a look at your pension. But first we must smash Brexit and the politics of divide and rule.  Someone posted a video of Pink Floyd and the wall as a tribute to the kids who they say the EU has ruined this would be a better video. Listen , enjoy and learn. It's never too late to help make a better world. 

 

 

 

[Loiner]

But the EU is wonderful. They take care of human rights and workers rights for everybody don’t they?
Not for UK pensions because that’s up to the British govt?
No point staying in the EU then. They don’t care about us. Let’s Leave.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, Loiner said:

That wonderful EU does do much for workers rights. Not enough for UK workers pensions when they retire though. We never enjoyed the same shorter working week or longer holidays.
It was all a con. Especially their lower tax on booze and fags.

funny wasn,t it, 15 years ago "british buisness"was whingeing we had to get out of europe as the increasing legislation regarding employment law and rights was making us unproductive,ff 15 years what with "self employment status"[so employers can swerve paying the minimum wage] zero hour contracts,and the "gig economy" fuelled by millions of economic migrants from the eu [makes you wonder how great things are in their countries as they cannot seem to get employment there] why the eus the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[kingdong]

11 hours ago, Slip said:

It warms my heart to see you are still choking on this.  I don't imagine it does though, so on the surface of it at least, a fair point well made.

choking on what?just don,t like being mugged off by all these biased "reports".

[Nigel Garvie]

10 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

That would be the British government then not the EU. The rot of working class gains after the war started with Thatcher and the great council house sell-off that ultimately decimated social housing and working class communities. And now like a last desperate gambler in the casino has gone to the roulette table and bet all his dreams on Black - getting out of the EU. Sad really particularly when these dreams are manipulated and festered by a right wing rich elite who will profit greatly if they get their way. But don't worry Loiner we will fight them all the way and get your pounds back first then have a look at your pension. But first we must smash Brexit and the politics of divide and rule.  Someone posted a video of Pink Floyd and the wall as a tribute to the kids who they say the EU has ruined this would be a better video. Listen , enjoy and learn. It's never too late to help make a better world. 

 

 

 

Many thanks for this video. It is possible that it might make, the people blaming immigrants for everything, think a little, but I'm not holding my breath, the capacity to question our sacred beliefs (If we ever had one) appears to diminish with age. The irony is we are building a wall to imprison ourselves, with the people (Farage, Bojo, JRM etc) who are tearing our society apart to further their own twisted personal interests. Rather like making a big cage to keep out the poisonous reptiles, and discovering that you are locked inside the cage with them, and they are arguing which one is going to get the first bite of you.

 

The song seems to say " We are the enemy we are trying to escape from".

 

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Many thanks for this video. It is possible that it might make, the people blaming immigrants for everything, think a little, but I'm not holding my breath, the capacity to question our sacred beliefs (If we ever had one) appears to diminish with age. The irony is we are building a wall to imprison ourselves, with the people (Farage, Bojo, JRM etc) who are tearing our society apart to further their own twisted personal interests. Rather like making a big cage to keep out the poisonous reptiles, and discovering that you are locked inside the cage with them, and they are arguing which one is going to get the first bite of you.

 

The song seems to say " We are the enemy we are trying to escape from".

 

Thanks Nigel - the world's problems have never been solved  by hate,division and the rich getting richer which is where we are now. Just finished watching a brilliant movie/documentary on Noam Chomsky where he says for Us and the western world the 50 and 60 s were the greatest time ever in redistribution of wealth from the capital owning class to the working class and there was indeed an American Dream. But in the 70s and then 80s the fightback of capital began - Reagan/Thatcher , the demonization of organised labour the privatisation of much of the common held services and the increasing financialization of the economy which went from a service to business to being the biggest business. And that capital had to change the model of increasing wealth,power and freedom in the working classes. The 'populism' trope that is now the biggest game in town is a boon to the rich who have never been richer and have never taken away more of the financial gains of the mass of western populations. 'Immigrants' have always been and will always be the easiest way to sow division and create anger rather than look up at who is really stealing their hopes and future......

 

https://prruk.org/noam-chomsky-the-five-filters-of-the-mass-media-machine/

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

On 8/11/2019 at 12:36 PM, Loiner said:

Your friends in Pattaya are not expats, none of the retirees, pensioners or tourists are. Expats work for a living.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriate

"However, the term 'expatriate' is also used for retirees and others who have chosen to live outside their native country."

 

I'm an expat and retired.