Chiang Mai, TM30 rules changed, domestic travel

[jackdd]

In another thread a poster mentioned that a new TM30 is required after domestic travel by Chiang Mai immigration.

Until right now i thought that this was only required if we left Thailand, and not for domestic travel, because this is what they told me two months ago.

To clarify the current rules i just called them, and they did indeed confirm what the other poster said. Chiang Mai now requires a new TM30 after domestic travel. In case you do it offline in the immigration office, handing in the passport + old TM30 is still enough (and can be done by the foreigner himself even if he is neither owner, landlord or possessor), no need to complete a new form.

 

[OJAS]

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where even stepping a single pace outside the property where we live will, in the case of us foreigners, necessitate an immediate trip to our local immigration office clutching an updated TM30.

[OneZero]

Oh the money to be made, haha.  Gotta pay for the bureaucratic necessities somehow.

[Bill97]

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where even stepping a single pace outside the property where we live will, in the case of us foreigners, necessitate an immediate trip to our local immigration office clutching an updated TM30.

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where the volume of misinformation and absurd opinion is making TV not worth reading.


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[LomSak27]

52 minutes ago, jackdd said:

In another thread a poster mentioned that a new TM30 is required after domestic travel by Chiang Mai immigration.

Until right now i thought that this was only required if we left Thailand, and not for domestic travel, because this is what they told me two months ago.

To clarify the current rules i just called them, and they did indeed confirm what the other poster said. Chiang Mai now requires a new TM30 after domestic travel. In case you do it offline in the immigration office, handing in the passport + old TM30 is still enough (and can be done by the foreigner himself even if he is neither owner, landlord or possessor), no need to complete a new form.

Unflipping Real

And I expected it.  ????

[JimGant]

4 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where the volume of misinformation and absurd opinion is making TV not worth reading.
 

Why, do you question jackdd's report? This TM30 issue has the Immigration folks in total disarray, primarily with the discrepancy between Immigration offices on what's required. CM had, up to now, been pragmatic about no reporting necessary for in country travel. That went against the grain of the overall law. So, now we're being rolled up into what's becoming the "NO SH*T" countrywide requirement. However, wiser heads will prevail -- oh, wait a minute -- where is it I now live....

[LivinLOS]

http://www.richardbarrow.com/2019/08/bangkok-immigration-want-expats-to-register-their-address-every-time-they-return-from-a-holiday-to-another-province/?fbclid=IwAR3iaYLlS1AVLeMWS32ygAwKjs17O0BGj0qSQhGiMnF7IxeKUrdEOgJ0tr8

[Bill97]

Why, do you question jackdd's report? This TM30 issue has the Immigration folks in total disarray, primarily with the discrepancy between Immigration offices on what's required. CM had, up to now, been pragmatic about no reporting necessary for in country travel. That went against the grain of the overall law. So, now we're being rolled up into what's becoming the "NO SH*T" countrywide requirement. However, wiser heads will prevail -- oh, wait a minute -- where is it I now live....

Report every time you go out the door

Come on Jim

Now you are a reasonable guy so tell me how many Immigration Officers and how large a new building will be required to process all the overnights to Lampang, Chiang Dao and and and....

Do you really think they will do it? The cost would be incredible nationwide unless they put it all online, all.

The third floor is already standing room only!


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[Gweiloman]

Whenever I stay in a resort in Thailand, my Thai partner does the check in registration process. She pays cash for the room and to date, I have never had to show any form of identification. Thus I will not be doing any TM30’s for domestic travel any time soon.


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[pgrahmm]

58 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Whenever I stay in a resort in Thailand, my Thai partner does the check in registration process. She pays cash for the room and to date, I have never had to show any form of identification. Thus I will not be doing any TM30’s for domestic travel any time soon.


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Another poster reported that his wife/gf was asked if they were with a foreigner....When answered in the affirmative they required the farang to report to the registration desk with his passport; which he was forced to do, or not be able to stay....

We're (innocently) facing a wave of Thai backlash/resistance against us.....

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Bill97 said:

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where the volume of misinformation and absurd opinion is making TV not worth reading.

Feel free to leave.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

Report every time you go out the door

Come on Jim

Now you are a reasonable guy so tell me how many Immigration Officers and how large a new building will be required to process all the overnights to Lampang, Chiang Dao and and and....

Do you really think they will do it? The cost would be incredible nationwide unless they put it all online, all.

The third floor is already standing room only!


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Feel free to operate any way you like.. But that IS the law.. That IS what bangkok is now saying it IS what chiang mai said initially and made written leaflets to say so in Thai and english etc.. 

 

Of course, as nice fine generating systems, I expect enforcement to continue fully.. Compliance however.. 

[stephenterry]

Believe me. If I had to travel outside CM province to stay with my relations in Tak, i wouldn't report sweet FA on my return, as no way would IM monitoring my movements. it's total BS, IMO.

 

And if, in the most unlikely event that occurs and I'm fined, I shall point an upturned finger and piss off to the Philippines or Vietnam. 

 

 

[Mahseer]

32 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Believe me. If I had to travel outside CM province to stay with my relations in Tak, i wouldn't report sweet FA on my return, as no way would IM monitoring my movements. it's total BS, IMO.

My sentiment entirely however should you get caught out you'll be liable for a fine which I believe is in the 1,600baht range (no big deal right?) but there's worse. Your relatives would get hammered for not reporting a farang staying over and their fine would be considerably more. I saw one report of 10,000baht for exactly this 'offence'.

 

What's the latest on online reporting? If it was as painless as 90 day I could handle it.

[daveAustin]

It has always been a requirement that foreigners report their whereabouts if spending more than 24 hours away from usual address. They're just enforcing it by the looks.

[Thailand]

Pretty much unenforceable particularly if visiting friends/ relatives.

[Bill97]

Pretty much unenforceable particularly if visiting friends/ relatives.

Uninforceable because they do not have staff to receive reports.


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[davehowden]

4 hours ago, daveAustin said:

It has always been a requirement that foreigners report their whereabouts if spending more than 24 hours away from usual address. They're just enforcing it by the looks.

So if I check into a local hotel at 2:00 pm and leave at 9:00 am the next morning I do not have to report are you saying ?

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, daveAustin said:

It has always been a requirement that foreigners report their whereabouts if spending more than 24 hours away from usual address. They're just enforcing it by the looks.

No, it's not. You are talking about immigration act sections 37 (3) and (4), these sections are still not enforced at all and most foreigners are exempt from them anyway.

This topic is about immigration act section 38

[billsmart]

JackDD, Your statement above is just to general for me to understand properly.

In your call to Chiang Mai Immigrations and their interpretations of the rules, did you ask or did they say anything about "tambian baan", aka, "Yellow Book?" It is my understand that the rule you cited above is true for some non-residents, but the filing of a TM.30 is not required upon return to the "permanent address" of non-residents which are registered the property's "tambian baan" which is listed in your Yellow Book.

And, you only mentioned "domestic travel." Did Chiang Mai clarify that more by saying "travel out of the province," and/or that it has to be "overnight" travel?

If you could comment of these issues and clarify what you were told by your local mitigation office, I would appreciate it.

[MikeN]

17 hours ago, JimGant said:

Why, do you question jackdd's report? This TM30 issue has the Immigration folks in total disarray, primarily with the discrepancy between Immigration offices on what's required. CM had, up to now, been pragmatic about no reporting necessary for in country travel. That went against the grain of the overall law. So, now we're being rolled up into what's becoming the "NO SH*T" countrywide requirement. However, wiser heads will prevail -- oh, wait a minute -- where is it I now live....

He quoted post #2, he did not question the OP’s report. Perhaps you should go back and read the absurd post he quoted to see what he meant ?

[Trujillo]

Don't worry. 

If you get "caught," just pony up the 1,600 baht. It's peanuts. 

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Trujillo said:

Don't worry. 

If you get "caught," just pony up the 1,600 baht. It's peanuts. 

And what about the 3-4 hour wait to pony up the 1,600, 4-5 times a year in some offices.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

In your call to Chiang Mai Immigrations and their interpretations of the rules, did you ask or did they say anything about "tambian baan", aka, "Yellow Book?" It is my understand that the rule you cited above is true for some non-residents, but the filing of a TM.30 is not required upon return to the "permanent address" of non-residents which are registered the property's "tambian baan" which is listed in your Yellow Book.

The yellow house book does not make you a resident, actually it says the opposite. The yellow house book is for people who are in Thailand temporarily, so having one with your name in it confirms that you are considered to be in Thailand temporarily.

But immigration law does not have anything to do with house books, this is just not relevant, so neither me nor the IO mentioned it.

We are foreigners and don't have permanent residency status, so the landlord / owner / possessor of the place where we stay has to report us.

 

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

And, you only mentioned "domestic travel." Did Chiang Mai clarify that more by saying "travel out of the province," and/or that it has to be "overnight" travel?

I asked them this question: I stay in Chiang Mai with my girlfriend, if i travel to another province and stay there at a hotel, does my girlfriend have to submit a TM30 when i return to stay at her place?

They confirmed this, but explained to me that i can report myself upon my return, as explained in my first post.

In the end it doesn't matter if "overnight" or however. What they want is that the last entry in their TM30 database is your current address.

So if another place did a TM30 for you (most hotels will do this), they want a new TM30 when you return. If you stayed at your friends house and he didn't report you, there is obviously no need to inform them when you return, because they never knew you were gone.

[Pilotman]

19 hours ago, OJAS said:

We seem to be rapidly getting to the stage where even stepping a single pace outside the property where we live will, in the case of us foreigners, necessitate an immediate trip to our local immigration office clutching an updated TM30.

Only in CM it seems, not so in Jomtien. 

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, davehowden said:

So if I check into a local hotel at 2:00 pm and leave at 9:00 am the next morning I do not have to report are you saying ?

It depends.

daveAustin's quote is incorrect.

If you leave the Province for more than 24 hours you must report your return. CW Immigration confirmed this with me on my extension trip last week, albeit they failed to correctly state more than 24 hours. But it's very clear on the form.

So your hotel check-in and check-out times are meaningless with regard to the TM30 requirement.

Using your scenario

1. if you left your province (ie., Bangkok) where your residence is registered at 1pm and check-in to a hotel at 2pm in a different province, then left the next morning at 9am but did not re-enter Bangkok Province until 2pm, you were absent more than 24 hours. TM30 would be required.
2. if you left your province (ie., Bangkok) where your residence is registered at 1pm and check-in to a hotel at 2pm in a different province, then left the next morning at 9am and re-entered Bangkok Province at noon, you were absent less than 24 hours. No TM30 required.

What might help abate such twisted rules - Foreigners who have long-term leases, ie., more than one year, should be free to travel throughout Thailand for any duration as they will be obligated as occupants of the leased residence to pay lease rents and maintain the property as prescribed by the lease and personal security needs. Requiring them to file TM30 for their absence is in effect holding the foreigner responsible for being in two places at the same time!

[davehowden]

11 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

It depends.

daveAustin's quote is incorrect.

If you leave the Province for more than 24 hours you must report your return. CW Immigration confirmed this with me on my extension trip last week, albeit they failed to correctly state more than 24 hours. But it's very clear on the form.

So your hotel check-in and check-out times are meaningless with regard to the TM30 requirement.

Using your scenario

1. if you left your province (ie., Bangkok) where your residence is registered at 1pm and check-in to a hotel at 2pm in a different province, then left the next morning at 9am but did not re-enter Bangkok Province until 2pm, you were absent more than 24 hours. TM30 would be required.
2. if you left your province (ie., Bangkok) where your residence is registered at 1pm and check-in to a hotel at 2pm in a different province, then left the next morning at 9am and re-entered Bangkok Province at noon, you were absent less than 24 hours. No TM30 required.

What might help abate such twisted rules - Foreigners who have long-term leases, ie., more than one year, should be free to travel throughout Thailand for any duration as they will be obligated as occupants of the leased residence to pay lease rents and maintain the property as prescribed by the lease and personal security needs. Requiring them to file TM30 for their absence is in effect holding the foreigner responsible for being in two places at the same time!

Why do you stress "different Province". I thought the latest Chiang Mai interpretation of the rules is that even if I stay in Chiang Mai city for the night but am normally resident in Hang Dong they require the TM30 to be updated ?

[RBOP]

8 hours ago, daveAustin said:

It has always been a requirement that foreigners report their whereabouts if spending more than 24 hours away from usual address. They're just enforcing it by the looks.

Headline news: Canada enforces law that all businesses in Alberta must provide posts in front of their shops to tie up your house. 

[rwill]

Here's one thing I bet would happen right now.  Immigration goes to a hotel to check for foreigners staying there and if the hotel has reported them.  There is a foreigner staying there and they did not report it but he happens to live in the same jungwat as the hotel.  Hotel still gets fined.

[davehowden]

4 minutes ago, RBOP said:

Headline news: Canada enforces law that all businesses in Alberta must provide posts in front of their shops to tie up your house. 

London police raid all Thai restaurants and massage shops, deporting 15,000 Thais without work permits, oh if only!!