Downturn to hit Hong Kong like a 'tsunami', as China slaps warning on Cathay

[Jack Mountain]

43 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I always wanted to visit china when I was growing up and more as I read about the history, achievements, some of the monuments, etc.  Then when I entered the real world and read about their government it just turned me off. 

Reading is not the real world ... start packing ... and find the truth ...

[tonbridgebrit]

47 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I always wanted to visit china when I was growing up and more as I read about the history, achievements, some of the monuments, etc.  Then when I entered the real world and read about their government it just turned me off. 

I think Beijing (the Chinese government) wants to earn foreign currency by exporting manufactured goods to America and Europe. They're not actually interested in earning foreign currency through tourism.

Now, Thailand is a different kettle of fish. Thailand wants to earn foreign currency via tourism. But even Thailand seems to be trying to drive away tourists who want to stay more than 30 days.  ????

[Traubert]

4 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I think Beijing (the Chinese government) wants to earn foreign currency by exporting manufactured goods to America and Europe. They're not actually interested in earning foreign currency through tourism.

Now, Thailand is a different kettle of fish. Thailand wants to earn foreign currency via tourism. But even Thailand seems to be trying to drive away tourists who want to stay more than 30 days.  ????

60m foreign tourists came to China in 2018. The internal tourist market is colossal too. There are now 72 hour layover visas at no cost in several cities.

 

Seems the Tsunami has started, Cathay and HSBC are the two landmark British businesses in HK. HSBC CEO already resigned, Cathay on the naughty step.

 

All China has to do is turn off the financial tap. They moved everything of note to Shanghai over the last 15 years.

[tonbridgebrit]

8 minutes ago, Jack Mountain said:

Reading is not the real world ... start packing ... and find the truth ...

And indeed, "Westerners" who are in China, who know Chinese people in China, they will say that "most people in China do reckon that Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong, they are all part of China, China must never be broken into seperate bits".

People outside of China will feel that this is, because of the brain-washing that's been going on in China. But is it ? How many people reckon that it's totally okay for Britain to have the Falklands and Gibraltar ? How many Europeans reckon that the mass theft of land in Canada and Brazil was actually an okay thing to do ? Lets not pretend that people in Europe have been brain-washed. They haven't been. It's just how people feel.

[tonbridgebrit]

5 minutes ago, Traubert said:

60m foreign tourists came to China in 2018. The internal tourist market is colossal too. There are now 72 hour layover visas at no cost in several cities.

 

Seems the Tsunami has started, Cathay and HSBC are the two landmark British businesses in HK. HSBC CEO already resigned, Cathay on the naughty step.

 

All China has to do is turn off the financial tap. They moved everything of note to Shanghai over the last 15 years.

Great to see that lots of people in America and Europe are visiting China. And they're doing it, even though some in the media are deliberately painting a negative picture of China.

Yes, the Great Wall of China, let's go and see it. Via Hong Kong, using Cathay Pacific !!   ????

[nahkit]

50 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Do we all accept that China has the right to say  "All those who take part in protests against Beijing and China will no longer be welcome to enter mainland-China, and ALL companies that have policies that we don't like, we ban them from operating in mainland-China ?"

Surely, Beijing should have the freedom to say this, and carry it out ? I mean, if the US government has the freedom and right to ban any company selling stuff to America, if they have the freedom and right to stop any company operating in America, well, surely, China should have the same freedom and right to do this ?


Surely, Cathay Pacific would simply not survive as a company, if Beijing was to NOT allow it to operate in mainland China ?

Yes, of course China has the right to say this but my post was about an employer not having the right to dictate what an employee does outside of working hours.

[Traubert]

27 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Great to see that lots of people in America and Europe are visiting China. And they're doing it, even though some in the media are deliberately painting a negative picture of China.

Yes, the Great Wall of China, let's go and see it. Via Hong Kong, using Cathay Pacific !!   ????

In fairness a lot of the high numbers are Koreans and Japanese, the numbers on expats are much the same, but on a three day layover in, say, Beijing, you could take in the Great Wall, Forbidden City, Summer Palace and the Dirt Market. Pleasant little distraction.

 

Returning to topic though, the above demonstrates that Hong Kong is losing it's mojo and it's not because of anything Beijing is doing. It's just cramped and overpriced.

[Selatan]

11 hours ago, nahkit said:

Yes it was their original stand and quite right too.

Nearly doomed the whole company and yet you still think they were right?

 

Cathay Pacific CEO Rupert Hogg resigns in midst of Hong Kong protest controversy

 

One of his deputy also resigned.

[Selatan]

10 hours ago, Traubert said:

In fairness a lot of the high numbers are Koreans and Japanese, the numbers on expats are much the same, but on a three day layover in, say, Beijing, you could take in the Great Wall, Forbidden City, Summer Palace and the Dirt Market. Pleasant little distraction.

 

Returning to topic though, the above demonstrates that Hong Kong is losing it's mojo and it's not because of anything Beijing is doing. It's just cramped and overpriced.

Never liked Hong Kong although I can speak Cantonese. They looked down on Malaysian Chinese like me anyway. I thought HK was a great city but I was sorely disappointed the first time I went there. Shenzhen was a real eye-opener. 

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, Jack Mountain said:

Reading is not the real world ... start packing ... and find the truth ...

it will have to wait. My job and security clearances really require a lot of pre reporting post reporting etc, when doing foreign travel, especially to some countries such as China which have been determined to be somewhat hostile and spying on USA.  Heck I just went to Thailand and back, and the security folks were confused about why Taiwan was on my flight itinerary when I was going to Thailand.  We are required to report even airport transfers/connection, but of we do, the damn system reported the trip as going to Taiwan because it assumes Taipeis was the first destination, even though the flights were clear, the system indicated no overnight stay, (3 hour layover, no immigration stamp for Taiwan of course, etc).  Security people are people that could not get any other type of degree! And if in a country like China, they want to know the hotels, how one internally traveled, etc.  The tradeoffs of having security clearances are worth the bucks they pay me for a little while longer anyway

[Jack Mountain]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

it will have to wait. My job and security clearances really require a lot of pre reporting post reporting etc, when doing foreign travel, especially to some countries such as China which have been determined to be somewhat hostile and spying on USA.  Heck I just went to Thailand and back, and the security folks were confused about why Taiwan was on my flight itinerary when I was going to Thailand.  We are required to report even airport transfers/connection, but of we do, the damn system reported the trip as going to Taiwan because it assumes Taipeis was the first destination, even though the flights were clear, the system indicated no overnight stay, (3 hour layover, no immigration stamp for Taiwan of course, etc).  Security people are people that could not get any other type of degree! And if in a country like China, they want to know the hotels, how one internally traveled, etc.  The tradeoffs of having security clearances are worth the bucks they pay me for a little while longer anyway

1st line => Required by who?

[gk10002000]

3 minutes ago, Jack Mountain said:

1st line => Required by who?

Company security office foreign travel reporting trip policies and sw applications and email approvals and notifications I have to follow.  Other DOD Government foreign travel systems I have to use and report in  etc.  These are not state department hoops people have to jump through.  These are DOD Government travel things

[Jack Mountain]

4 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Company security office foreign travel reporting trip policies and sw applications and email approvals and notifications I have to follow.  Other DOD Government foreign travel systems I have to use and report in  etc.  These are not state department hoops people have to jump through.  These are DOD Government travel things

So we are talking about the land of the free, right? Maybe they have to change that name. Hope you will manage to unchain yourself one day ...

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Company security office foreign travel reporting trip policies and sw applications and email approvals and notifications I have to follow.  Other DOD Government foreign travel systems I have to use and report in  etc.  These are not state department hoops people have to jump through.  These are DOD Government travel things

And you cheerfully talk about that on this website? Obviously your security clearances are pretty high quality.

[Morch]

16 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And indeed, "Westerners" who are in China, who know Chinese people in China, they will say that "most people in China do reckon that Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong, they are all part of China, China must never be broken into seperate bits".

People outside of China will feel that this is, because of the brain-washing that's been going on in China. But is it ? How many people reckon that it's totally okay for Britain to have the Falklands and Gibraltar ? How many Europeans reckon that the mass theft of land in Canada and Brazil was actually an okay thing to do ? Lets not pretend that people in Europe have been brain-washed. They haven't been. It's just how people feel.

 

And yet, you have no issues expressing totally different views when commenting on action by other countries, in Asia and elsewhere. Also, considering free speech and political freedoms in China are what they are, asserting what "most people in China" think or feel about matters politic is a somewhat dubious affair.

[Morch]

16 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Great to see that lots of people in America and Europe are visiting China. And they're doing it, even though some in the media are deliberately painting a negative picture of China.

Yes, the Great Wall of China, let's go and see it. Via Hong Kong, using Cathay Pacific !!   ????

 

"... some in the media are deliberately painting a negative picture of China."

 

Not specifying, naturally, which elements are referred to. Denying there's anything wrong with China. Nothing new there.

 

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Jack Mountain said:

So we are talking about the land of the free, right? Maybe they have to change that name. Hope you will manage to unchain yourself one day ...

 

Similar requirements exist (for similar conditions) in other Western countries as well. Working in the defense industry is like that. Some stricter than others, and this also depends on project/post.

[Morch]

46 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

And you cheerfully talk about that on this website? Obviously your security clearances are pretty high quality.

 

The security requirements themselves aren't a secret.

[gk10002000]

3 hours ago, Jack Mountain said:

So we are talking about the land of the free, right? Maybe they have to change that name. Hope you will manage to unchain yourself one day ...

I am not chained to anything.  The processes are simple to follow.  I just hate reporting paper work.  I can retire anytime.  I kind of enjoy my engineering work and I like making over 200 K a year and getting paid vacations and medical and dental that only cost me about $70/month.  When I tire or get bored with work I will go.   Still amazing how people try to backhand insult people

[gk10002000]

50 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

And you cheerfully talk about that on this website? Obviously your security clearances are pretty high quality.

There is nothing special about what I wrote.  They are all general open policies available to anyone that cares to look at such things.  Again, funny how people love to try and toss insults or make negative assertions about things they know nothing about.

[Kinnock]

David vs Goliath, except this time David has a placard rather than a sling, and Goliath has a tank.

 

[Jack Mountain]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

I am not chained to anything.  The processes are simple to follow.  I just hate reporting paper work.  I can retire anytime.  I kind of enjoy my engineering work and I like making over 200 K a year and getting paid vacations and medical and dental that only cost me about $70/month.  When I tire or get bored with work I will go.   Still amazing how people try to backhand insult people

The best slaves are the ones who think they are free. Good Luck.

And if you work for TSA or similar, Som na na

[nahkit]

7 hours ago, Selatan said:

Nearly doomed the whole company and yet you still think they were right?

 

Cathay Pacific CEO Rupert Hogg resigns in midst of Hong Kong protest controversy

 

One of his deputy also resigned.

I think I've said it enough times on here now, so, for the last time, I don't think any company has the right to tell their employees what they do with their own time outside of work, regardless of who is bullying them to do so.

[tonbridgebrit]

4 hours ago, nahkit said:

I think I've said it enough times on here now, so, for the last time, I don't think any company has the right to tell their employees what they do with their own time outside of work, regardless of who is bullying them to do so.

Okay, consider this. A hotel in London, they've got their staff. This hotel caters mainly for foreign tourists. There's a member of staff, it's his day off from work. And he's taking part in a demonstration, that demonstration is supporting "let's ban or massively reduce the number of foreign tourists coming into Britain".  Surely, people staying at the hotel will think it is strange, that such a man is being allowed to work there ?

Or how about a man, who works in the immigration department. His job is to check applications, and decide who should be allowed in. It's his day off from work. And he's taking part in a demonstration, that demonstration is trying to say "say no to foreigners, we want to stop them coming into our country". Should that man, really, be allowed to carry on working as an employee at the immigration department ?

And now we see a man, his job is to control flights coming into and leaving the country. It's his day off. And he's part of a demonstration that is trying to say "stop all flights entering and leaving our place". Surely, on a matter of principle, and other reasons, they should have the right to sack or suspend him. Surely ?

[Traubert]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

"... some in the media are deliberately painting a negative picture of China."

 

Not specifying, naturally, which elements are referred to. Denying there's anything wrong with China. Nothing new there.

 

 

It must be more than obvious that that works both ways.

 

Have you ever tried to get anyone to tell you exactly which freedoms are being eroded in Hong Kong and how? Answer comes there none, just that airy phrase 'freedoms are being eroded.'

[tonbridgebrit]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

And yet, you have no issues expressing totally different views when commenting on action by other countries, in Asia and elsewhere. Also, considering free speech and political freedoms in China are what they are, asserting what "most people in China" think or feel about matters politic is a somewhat dubious affair.

I'm only trying to say this.
The people in Portugal, most of them don't feel bad about how Portugal turned up in South America, and grabbed/stole a big bit of land, and called it Brazil. The government in Portugal has not dished out a brain-washing programme, a brain-washing programme to convince the people that taking over land in South America was okay. The people of Potugal feel okay about taking over Brazil, it is how they feel.

In the same way, most people in China feel that Tibet, Hong Kong and Taiwan, it all belongs to China. It's how they feel, they haven't been brain-washed into thinking this.

Westerners in China know this. When talking to Chinese people in mainland China, people who are friends and fellow members of staff. There's no security cameras or recording equipment there. Them Chinese people in mainland China, a lot of them are "nationalistic, slightly xenophobic, and slightly racist". They're expressing their views, and they know when they was talking, they were not being spied on by the Chinese government.

If you want to criticise Chinese people for being "nationalistic, slightly xenophobic, slightly racist", well, go ahead. Just bear in mind that, that's how they feel, they have not been brain-washed. And a lot of people in Europe are also "slightly xenophobic, slightly racist".

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Traubert said:

It must be more than obvious that that works both ways.

 

Have you ever tried to get anyone to tell you exactly which freedoms are being eroded in Hong Kong and how? Answer comes there none, just that airy phrase 'freedoms are being eroded.'

 

I was referring to mainland China.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I'm only trying to say this.
The people in Portugal, most of them don't feel bad about how Portugal turned up in South America, and grabbed/stole a big bit of land, and called it Brazil. The government in Portugal has not dished out a brain-washing programme, a brain-washing programme to convince the people that taking over land in South America was okay. The people of Potugal feel okay about taking over Brazil, it is how they feel.

In the same way, most people in China feel that Tibet, Hong Kong and Taiwan, it all belongs to China. It's how they feel, they haven't been brain-washed into thinking this.

Westerners in China know this. When talking to Chinese people in mainland China, people who are friends and fellow members of staff. There's no security cameras or recording equipment there. Them Chinese people in mainland China, a lot of them are "nationalistic, slightly xenophobic, and slightly racist". They're expressing their views, and they know when they was talking, they were not being spied on by the Chinese government.

If you want to criticise Chinese people for being "nationalistic, slightly xenophobic, slightly racist", well, go ahead. Just bear in mind that, that's how they feel, they have not been brain-washed. And a lot of people in Europe are also "slightly xenophobic, slightly racist".

 

I'm only trying to say that

 

- This topic ain't about Portugal. Or Brazil.

- You have no idea what Chinese people, as a whole, or generally, think about matters politic.

- Whether their supposed views are "real" or a product of government propaganda can be debated.

- As pointed out, you have no issues criticizing other countries for having similar attitudes, or positions - when it fits.

[Traubert]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I was referring to mainland China.

You were talking about reporting/journalism and so was I.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Traubert said:

You were talking about reporting/journalism and so was I.

 

Maybe check the context of posts before charging in?