Chinese intervention in Hong Kong would be a 'catastrophe', Patten says

[Mavideol]

11 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

there is an annual police training exercise in shenzhen about this time every year.  plus last week there was a graduation ceremony in shenzhen for 20k police officers.

 

china already has a 6000-man pla force stationed in hong kong.

all playing the intimidation game supported/backed by china's news outlets brainwashing their people, was in mainland china 2 weeks ago (been there for 12 years) saw & heard a lot of bs but couldn't believe the latest bs their news channels were reporting about the HK events, very similar to what Russia used/or still do

[Traubert]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

Just to clarify. Only one of the nations on that Chinabot list of yours has placed an entire religious minority in concentration camps, sterilized their women, and taken their organs from their still conscious and living bodies to transplant into wealthy Chinese. Only one nation on that list considers a group of people doing slow motion calisthenics to be engaged in terrorist activities. Only one nation on that list is building up a social credit score to deny people basic services that don't toe the party line. Only one nation on that list recently turned off the water supply to the Mekong River just to show everybody downstream who was boss.

Ah, good afternoon Amnesty International. As exaggerations and unfounded accusations go, that takes the proverbial biscuit. The whole biscuit factory in fact. Congrats.

[Traubert]

19 hours ago, Mavideol said:

should retain high degree of autonomy for 50 years that was signed by him and his chinese counterpart, unfortunately the chinese gov don't want to respect the agreement....

What has changed? I musy have asked this question twenty times now and not one answer has been forthcoming.

19 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

In a video obtained and released by Chinese state-owned media website Global Times, dozens of military trucks and over a dozen Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs) can be seen assembling in Shenzhen — less than 30km from Hong Kong — for military 'exercises'.

 

This was yesterday.  Just an exercise?  Chinese Government has already used the word “Terror” in reference to the Hong Kong Protesters.  I think a midnight airborne assault into Hong Kong with a column of Armored Vehicles rolling in might be in the works?  The People’s Republic is not used to dissent.  I recall a certain event 30 years ago that did not end well..  

How would you organise an airborne assault into an island city? Aim for Victoria Park and hope nobody misses?

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There was a time when he might well have been, but John Major sent him to Hong Kong to neutralise the threat he was to Major’s tenure at No 10.

Fatty Pang (Patten) lost his constituency seat in the election and was sent to HK as a sinecure.

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

If this kicks off UK will have a headache re how to protect BNO's

I don't claim to know many BNO's, four I think, but each of them holds Britain in deep contempt.

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Cute but some of us see a bit of difference ... so do the people of Hong Kong ...

Like BNO's I can't claim to speak for the people of HK, but I was there from last Thursday to Sunday and I can tell you that the people in my hotel, the staff in the local pharmacy, the people in the phone shop, the bar owners, and the myriad of people I did meet over the four days are all heartily sick of these kids screwing up their daily life and messing with their businesses. Plus they have a better than fair idea of the root of the problem.

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

correct, yesterday an undercover chinese police guy was caught but china claims it's the westerns influence, in case some start to question the validity, my friend is currently there reporting, saw it, same last week or 2 weeks ago when the white shirts (unmasked, thus easy to identify and protected by the HK police) attacked the demonstrators,  all white shirts from china mainland infiltrated the demonstration to create trouble allowing china to claim "acts of terrorism" and by doing so they have the perfect excuse to go in and now backed by the local UN office whom has no balls to contradict them

The Chinese police guy turned out to be a reporter from the mainland press. He had the same name as a policeman on the Shenzhen police force. The white shirts are strongly believed to be local triads who don't like their business (legal or illegal) being disrupted by junior upstarts bringing the police out in numbers.

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

all playing the intimidation game supported/backed by china's news outlets brainwashing their people, was in mainland china 2 weeks ago (been there for 12 years) saw & heard a lot of bs but couldn't believe the latest bs their news channels were reporting about the HK events, very similar to what Russia used/or still do

Which TV stations were you watching? You seriously underestimate the disregard Chinese people have for official news outlets. You need a WeChat and a Weibo account if you want to speak for what Chinese people see, read and hear and therefore believe.

 

As an illustration, and a very minor one admittedly, of what is happening on the ground, one of the 149 arrested over the weekend asked the magistrate remanding him into custody if he could please be freed as he had a violin lesson on Sunday evening and it was already paid for. Now tell me that kid hadn't been manipulated.

[zydeco]

Beware the Chinabots.

[khunken]

Not the worst Tory by some distance but Patten has lost his marbles by suggesting that Bolton be involved with anything in a foreign country.

The surest way for a Chinese takeover in HK is to have the US involved & they have already told the UK to keep their brown noses out of the problem too.

I sympathise with the protesters protesting against the proposed extradition law but they are going too far with the violence. As the proposed law has been suspended (unfortunately not permanently), all the protesters need to do is tell Lam that any effort to introduce it again will lead to the same result - more protests. Insisting on Lam's resignation is not a good enough reason to continue.

[tonbridgebrit]

4 hours ago, zydeco said:

Just to clarify. Only one of the nations on that Chinabot list of yours has placed an entire religious minority in concentration camps, sterilized their women, and taken their organs from their still conscious and living bodies to transplant into wealthy Chinese. Only one nation on that list considers a group of people doing slow motion calisthenics to be engaged in terrorist activities. Only one nation on that list is building up a social credit score to deny people basic services that don't toe the party line. Only one nation on that list recently turned off the water supply to the Mekong River just to show everybody downstream who was boss.

 

2 hours ago, zydeco said:

Beware the Chinabots.

Zydeco, what are you trying to say ?
So, people who are against outside interference of Hong Kong are Chinabots ??

You want to bring up the exaggerated claims of crimes against Islam in China ? Do please get real, half of all people in Europe and America believe that Muslims are dangerous to Europe. Lots of Americans and Europeans would love to see Islam banned. So, it's okay for Europeans to dream about Islam being banned, no more having to look at mosques in Europe, but what China is doing is totally wrong ?

Okay, what about Hong Kong ? Why is the media giving special attention to Hong Kong ?  Please bear in mind, in India, in Kashmir, the Indian government, right now, has cut phone and internet links between Kashmire and the rest of the world. Notice how the media has given very little coverage of this. Yes, this is happening to Muslims in Kashmir.

Them Chinese in Hong Kong, they have far more freedom than people in Kashmir. Yet the media wants to zoom in on Hong Kong. Why ? It's not because the media are concerned about the people of Hong Kong. It's because they're deliberately using Hong Kong to make Beijing look bad. And that, is actually what you are doing. I don't regard you to be a "bot".

If the media was actually concerned about freedom across the world, they would be giving more coverage to the plight of people in Kashmir, compared to Hong Kong.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

7 hours ago, bristolboy said:

A lot less stress to the world economy when sanctions are imposed on a nation if its exports consist mostly of natural resources. China's economy is woven into industrial supply chains around the world. Even Trump now is, in effect, acknowledging that.

Good point, but there is a way to hit Beijing without affecting the broader economy much. A few years ago there were a strategy outlining what could be done to contain China's expansion in the South China sea.

The idea was to sanction all companies that have been involved in building the islands, which of course all are big state owned enterprises.

Anything from steel manufactures, cement producers, ship yards, shipping companies and even airlines.

Without access to international banking these companies would not be able to operate outside China.

[tonbridgebrit]

Chris Patten, can you please say nothing, and tell the British government to stay out of this ?

The last thing Britain wants now, is to make whatever comments that will antagonise Beijing. Britain is leaving Europe, and Britain needs a good trade deal with China. Deliberately antagonising and offending Beijing will harm the prospects of a good trade deal with China.

We all know that hardly anybody outside of Hong Kong cares about this. The media has given coverage to this, because it's all a big attempt to demonize China, to make China look bad. Why the absurd interest in freedom and democracy in Hong Kong ?
Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, etc, none of these countries have proper democratic elections. Yet, Britain wants to raise the issue of freedom and democracy in Hong Kong ? Apart from throwing a stone at Beijing, making Beijing look bad, what reason is there, to zoom in and mention Hong Kong in such a way ?

If Britain really is concerned about freedom and democracy in the world, well, how about mention the following ? India was previously a Britsh Empire country, a British colony. Right now, India is doing stuff in Kashmir, cutting phone and internet links between Kashmir and the rest of the world. How about using time and effort to talk about Kashmir instead of Hong Kong.


And, Mr Patten, you was the last British man to be in charge of Hong Kong. What happened, prior to you leaving Hong Kong in 1997 ? Do you remember the feelings of lots of Hong Kong people ? Some of them felt that Britain had betrayed them, some of them reckoned that the subjects of the British Empire should have been given permission to leave Hong Kong, and go to Britain. Off-course, Britain did not allow a mass exit of Chinese people (call them Hong Kongnese if you want to, they're still Chinese) from Hong Kong to Britain, during the handover in 1997.

So, my message to the British government is this. 
"Please do not try to make it look like that you are concerned about freedom and democracy for the people of Hong Kong. The main goal has always been to demonize Beijing, make Beijing look bad. And bearing in mind that Britain is leaving Europe, Britain needs a good trade deal with China. It would be absurd to antagonise Beijing, and to still hope for a good trade deal".

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

.......We all know that hardly anybody outside of Hong Kong cares about this. The media has given coverage to this, because it's all a big attempt to demonize China, to make China look bad........

So Western media is just doing what the Chinese state sponsored propaganda machine is doing 7 days a week all year around. Don't the CCP like their own medicine?

[lannarebirth]

7 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Below are a few comments of the video. Pretty pathetic propaganda from the CCP.

 

Apparently the character on the gate where the cars come out is Fujian(福建）southeast China, while Shenzhen is southwest China. Please do not post fake news to fool those who cannot read Chinese.

 

LOL, calm down, It’s NOT footages of military on route to Shenzhen. It’s in Fujian province, 750km away. Looks more like typhoon flood crisis support. Notice all the amphibious vehicles. It’s not for riots control. Sorry to disappoint some folks.

 

So you're saying this reporting is incorrect?

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-show-chinese-military-vehicles-in-stadium-hong-kong-border-2019-8

[tifino]

In can envision;

that during this time of build up, the PLA will be hurriedly setting up ReEducation camps...  

[ExpatOilWorker]

56 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

So you're saying this reporting is incorrect?

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-show-chinese-military-vehicles-in-stadium-hong-kong-border-2019-8

Looks like they have arrived:

Awesome stadium by the way.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/satellite-photos-appear-to-show-chinese-apcs-near-hong-kong

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Good point, but there is a way to hit Beijing without affecting the broader economy much. A few years ago there were a strategy outlining what could be done to contain China's expansion in the South China sea.

The idea was to sanction all companies that have been involved in building the islands, which of course all are big state owned enterprises.

Anything from steel manufactures, cement producers, ship yards, shipping companies and even airlines.

Without access to international banking these companies would not be able to operate outside China.

I expect were that to happen, China would use one of those companies to start importing lots more Iranian oil.

[Traubert]

8 hours ago, zydeco said:

Beware the Chinabots.

Truly pathetic. Are you taking your ball home kid?

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Good point, but there is a way to hit Beijing without affecting the broader economy much. A few years ago there were a strategy outlining what could be done to contain China's expansion in the South China sea.

The idea was to sanction all companies that have been involved in building the islands, which of course all are big state owned enterprises.

Anything from steel manufactures, cement producers, ship yards, shipping companies and even airlines.

Without access to international banking these companies would not be able to operate outside China.

As you said, a few years ago. Since then the AIIB opened with 100 of the worlds countries invested in it. Who opened it? China.

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

So Western media is just doing what the Chinese state sponsored propaganda machine is doing 7 days a week all year around. Don't the CCP like their own medicine?

China media (who nobody reads anyway) are saying bad stuff about China?

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Looks like they have arrived:

Awesome stadium by the way.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/satellite-photos-appear-to-show-chinese-apcs-near-hong-kong

Is this like when the Guardian drew those pictures of artillery and aircraft on satellite pics of the SCS islands? 'Look, this could go there and this fits there.' There's a PLA garrison in Hong Kong, has been since the handover. Don't you think that someone may have noticed them driving in? I mean, they aren't exactly unobtrusive are they? Maybe they had cam nets on to blend in with iSquare Mall.

[roquefort]

13 hours ago, Brickbat said:

Says the Clown that was in charge of Interfering while he was Governor of a land that did not belong to the British 

Nonsense. Hong Kong was leased by the Chinese to the British and when the lease expired Patten did an excellent job of negotiating a peaceful handover, with a 50 year buffer before China took full control. Only the Chinese couldn't wait that long.

[Traubert]

4 minutes ago, roquefort said:

Nonsense. Hong Kong was leased by the Chinese to the British and when the lease expired Patten did an excellent job of negotiating a peaceful handover, with a 50 year buffer before China took full control. Only the Chinese couldn't wait that long.

So what has changed since 1998?

[roquefort]

7 minutes ago, Traubert said:

So what has changed since 1998?

Nothing, except the provision for election of HK's Chief Executive by universal suffrage has never been implemented. That was what triggered the Umbrella protests in 2014 and is the root of the current unrest.

The protests began after the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPCSC) issued a decision regarding proposed reforms to the Hong Kong electoral system. The decision was widely seen to be highly restrictive, and tantamount to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)'s pre-screening of the candidates for the Chief Executive of Hong Kong

[ExpatOilWorker]

15 hours ago, bristolboy said:

I expect were that to happen, China would use one of those companies to start importing lots more Iranian oil.

They should start now then

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-15/u-s-blacklists-china-nuclear-firms-accused-of-aiding-military