OA visa extension funding questions...

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, britishjohn said:

To be honest I haven't even looked at the extension application form. Are you saying that you state on there which method you are applying under ?

Using the 800k method is real easy if you can afford having the money locked up in the bank. You just need the bank letter (guarantee) from your bank,and copies signed by yourself of your bank book. If you are using the 800k method, you will have to come back to immigration in 90 days and show that you still has at least 800k in your bank account. Using the >65k monthly, then no re-visit to immigration.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Max69xl
More info

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

Thanks for your wise advice Martyp, apologies for the oversight. I now have a copy of the TM7. 

 

With regard to the preferred financial proof, as I understand it I would need to submit bank statements on the banks headed paper and a bank certificate. But if I only had one bank account with both 800k and monthly transfers coming in, how would I push one option over another ?

And if the extension were granted where would it be stated which option was used ?

 

 

 

 

I still think they will prefer the 800,000k method over the monthly method. I'm just guessing here but I would have the bank prepare two sets of documents. One for the monthly method and one with the 800,000 method. Or let me clarify - last year I brought a stack of Kasikorn pages with my bank balances. They didn't want to see those and never looked at them. Instead she sent me to Kasikorn downstairs with a note she wrote for what she wanted. The bank then provided a short form document stating my balance in my account. That is what Immigration wanted. I think you want one document from your bank which will show that you had the required deposits every month. I've seen copies of this in other posts. For the 800,000k method you probably need a short document stating you have the 800,000k. I would rather talk to the bank about the two sets of documents rather than having a conversation with IO about how you prefer to use the monthly method even though you are also presenting proof that you can do the 800,000 method.

 

I did the 800,000 method last year and intend to repeat this method this year. My extension of stay ends on Nov 9th and I plan to apply for the next extension in mid-October.

[Max69xl]

11 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

Thanks for your wise advice Martyp, apologies for the oversight. I now have a copy of the TM7. 

 

With regard to the preferred financial proof, as I understand it I would need to submit bank statements on the banks headed paper and a bank certificate. But if I only had one bank account with both 800k and monthly transfers coming in, how would I push one option over another ?

And if the extension were granted where would it be stated which option was used ?

 

 

 

 

It's totally irrelevant which option was used.

[britishjohn]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

It's totally irrelevant which option was used.

Why it is irrelevant ? Surely if I got the extension based on monthly transfers I would be able to remove the 800k in the account.

[Max69xl]

4 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

Why it is irrelevant ? Surely if I got the extension based on monthly transfers I would be able to remove the 800k in the account.

I meant,for immigration it's totally irrelevant. If you can use the >65k monthly, yes,you can remove your money if you want.

[buddyguy]

As an aside, I used the combo method using Canadian consulate income proof letter plus money in the Thai bank account on Tuesday this week at Chonburi(Jomtien) immigration and my extension was granted with no requirement to return in 3 months. 

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, buddyguy said:

As an aside, I used the combo method using Canadian consulate income proof letter plus money in the Thai bank account on Tuesday this week at Chonburi(Jomtien) immigration and my extension was granted with no requirement to return in 3 months. 

Really? I read the newsletter from PCEC a couple of months ago, and the word was the combo method was denied in Jomtien. 

[britishjohn]

I'm almost accepting defeat on the income method. Called into a Krungsri branch and spent about 30 mins explaining what I need from them. There was a lot of nodding and kaa's, before finally they handed me a piece of paper with my balance on it and thought that's what I wanted ! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry before a fluent Thai speaker stepped in to help. Finally they confirmed they could not certify the income came from overseas.

 

They did however give me some account number at Bangkok bank where the money had come from. I headed over there and they were able to identify the money coming from Transferwise. So in theory they might be able to certify the transfers. Unfortunately it seems Transferwise have also used Kasikorn as a partner for some of my transfers and they said only head office can look up these transactions. With a lot of effort it might be possible to achieve certification on all the transfers but I'm not sure if I have the energy to bother. I may just transfer the 800k and be done with it.

 

I also talked to Bangkok and Kasikorn about opening accounts with them to overcome this problem in future. Bangkok seems an effort...requiring a trip to the embassy to certify my passport really is my passport. I thought only copies need certification. What's the point when you have the real thing in front of you. 

 

Kasikorn seemed amenable though. Does anyone know if Transferwise transfers will always go directly to Kasikorn and be identifiable as overseas ?

[Genericnic]

20 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

 

I also talked to Bangkok and Kasikorn about opening accounts with them to overcome this problem in future. Bangkok seems an effort...requiring a trip to the embassy to certify my passport really is my passport. I thought only copies need certification. What's the point when you have the real thing in front of you. 

 

Kasikorn seemed amenable though. Does anyone know if Transferwise transfers will always go directly to Kasikorn and be identifiable as overseas ?

If you have Thai friends, especially ones that have a BKK Bank account, ask them if they will go with you to the branch where they bank. I was having problems trying to get all the paperwork done until I had a friend who has her business and personal accounts at the bank go with me. All it took then was my passport and her signing a letter (in Thai) but it is just generally a letter of reference. Was in and out in 15 minutes with a savings account and debit card. Been using it for 6 months now with no problem. And the Transferwise payments have come in with the correct codes. Was even easier at KBank. Didn't need the friend. 

 

As for Transferwise, when I set up the first transaction, I had them tag the account so that it always go to BKK Bank. Worked fine. However, I notice some post on TV saying that people that had their accounts tagged were seeing some transfers going amiss unless they called to confirm the tag. I have don't it the last 2 transfers just out of caution and they both came through with the proper coding. 

 

Good luck.

 

David

[britishjohn]

7 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

If you have Thai friends, especially ones that have a BKK Bank account, ask them if they will go with you to the branch where they bank. I was having problems trying to get all the paperwork done until I had a friend who has her business and personal accounts at the bank go with me. All it took then was my passport and her signing a letter (in Thai) but it is just generally a letter of reference. Was in and out in 15 minutes with a savings account and debit card. Been using it for 6 months now with no problem. And the Transferwise payments have come in with the correct codes. Was even easier at KBank. Didn't need the friend. 

 

As for Transferwise, when I set up the first transaction, I had them tag the account so that it always go to BKK Bank. Worked fine. However, I notice some post on TV saying that people that had their accounts tagged were seeing some transfers going amiss unless they called to confirm the tag. I have don't it the last 2 transfers just out of caution and they both came through with the proper coding. 

 

Good luck.

 

David

But how about the codes on Kbank ? Or have you not sent any there ?

 

Also out of curiosity, have you told Transferwise you are resident in Thailand ?

I only ask because some of these banks/financial institutions start asking awkward questions about tax ID numbers etc etc

[Genericnic]

52 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

But how about the codes on Kbank ? Or have you not sent any there ?

 

Also out of curiosity, have you told Transferwise you are resident in Thailand ?

I only ask because some of these banks/financial institutions start asking awkward questions about tax ID numbers etc etc

Don't know about the KBank codes. I only use BKK Bank for the transfers.

 

Yes, Transferwise knows I live in Thailand. They never asked about it but I mentioned it on a number of times. Never raised an issue.

 

David

 

[Max69xl]

39 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

But how about the codes on Kbank ? Or have you not sent any there ?

 

Also out of curiosity, have you told Transferwise you are resident in Thailand ?

I only ask because some of these banks/financial institutions start asking awkward questions about tax ID numbers etc etc

TW are only using K-Bank and Bangkok Bank in Thailand. You register at TW with an address,so that's where you're staying. At Bangkok Bank in Jomtien,Chonburi,they said that issuing a bank letter showing a transfer is international,is no problem,even if it was routed via K-Bank. The problem is still immigration who wants the FTT-code in the bank book. This will eventually change,because immigration doesn't have a clue about other banks codes. They are used to K-Bank and Bangkok Bank.

Regarding open an account at K-Bank: Some branches requires a retirement visa + passport,some don't look at the visa-type. Bangkok Bank wants passport + 1 more document (out of many) showing your identity. I went to immigration and applied for a Certificate of Residence for 300 baht, then Bangkok Bank was happy. BB has a very good website with the requirements for opening an account in English.

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

Don't know about the KBank codes. I only use BKK Bank for the transfers.

 

Yes, Transferwise knows I live in Thailand. They never asked about it but I mentioned it on a number of times. Never raised an issue.

 

David

 

It will take a while,but eventually even immigration will understand how transfers work. They don't have a clue about bank codes except FTT,because they are so used to K-Bank and Bangkok Bank. In a perfect world they would trust banks. I guess they think bank clerks takes bribes.We shouldn't have to show the bank book at all

if they trust the bank letter.

[britishjohn]

I called Transferwise for a better explanation on all this. Apparently they have 3 partner banks here. Bangkok, K Bank and TMB. He said that if the transfers go through Bangkok or KBank you can take their transfer reference number to those banks and obtain an FET certificate which apparently would suffice for visa extension. However in the case of TMB that's not possible. 

He said it's more or less random which of these partner banks will get used and I can see some of my transfers have been through TMB so there's no way of obtaining the certificates required.

If you bank with K bank or Bangkok you can request one of those banks to be preferred partner and asked for a tag to be applied which should show up as FTT on your statement, but there's no guarantee.

The only way to be sure of avoiding this problem is to send money via the swift system with a normal bank which will be a lot more expensive.

I did also ask why we can't use Transferwise to send money out of Thailand. This is simply due to regulations here preventing it. No prizes for guessing why a competitive service would be blocked...

[UKresonant]

38 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

The only way to be sure of avoiding this problem is to send money via the swift system with a normal bank which will be a lot more expensive.

For Info

I transfer to a Krungsri £FCD account monthly at the moment, from the Halifax online £9.50, £5 evaporates somewhere, and then they have a published FCD deposit fee ~0.25% with a min.  I calculated from send until in the bank in Thailand as 1.5% cost in total on approx £1000, would be <1.5% on £1900... Withdrawals in ThaiBaht are at their TT rate or marginally better. There is no passbook, bit they could print a years transaction in Branch in a few minutes. (My other UK bank I would have to go to a branch and was comparatively expensive). Hopefully that arrangement will not change, as at the moment it gives a nice SWF code against the print & postal statement, but is more expensive than TW. 

(There is another method I use for THB, I'll have to check the coding, but one of the pass books I left in Thailand)

[britishjohn]

Interesting. I just checked how 2 of my Uk banks compares to Transferwise. Both Barclays and First Direct don't charge a fee but obviously give you a worse exchange rate.

Taking all that into consideration for a transfer of £1,900 :

 

First direct £63 or 3.3%

Barclays £55 or 2.9%

Transferwise £12 or 0.6%

 

So if I did 12 transfers a year of £1900, it would cost me about £500 more a year to use Barclays over Transferwise. However if you can save parking 800k THB into a bank account here, it could still be worth doing, as you would only need to earn about 2% p.a on it to compensate for the extra cost.

 

There's also the Transferwise cost of sending 800k of £125

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by britishjohn

[Max69xl]

10 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

Interesting. I just checked how 2 of my Uk banks compares to Transferwise. Both Barclays and First Direct don't charge a fee but obviously give you a worse exchange rate.

Taking all that into consideration for a transfer of £1,900 :

 

First direct £63 or 3.3%

Barclays £55 or 2.9%

Transferwise £12 or 0.6%

 

So if I did 12 transfers a year of £1900, it would cost me about £500 more a year to use Barclays over Transferwise. However if you can save parking 800k THB into a bank account here, it could still be worth doing, as you would only need to earn about 2% p.a on it to compensate for the extra cost.

 

There's also the Transferwise cost of sending 800k of £125

 

There's another option that at least works in Chonburi (must work in more provinces): Park at least 800k in a Fixed Deposit Account.

But there must be a FDA without special requirements, just loss of interest when withdrawing money.

1 year at Bangkok Bank, with at least 1,5% interest is 12000 baht minus a small tax. Better than a Savings Account if you have to park the money in the bank. 

[britishjohn]

Is a fixed deposit account accepted when renewing the visa ?

[Max69xl]

4 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

Is a fixed deposit account accepted when renewing the visa ?

You mean extending the visa.

Like I said, it's ok in Chonburi,and most likely in some other Immigration offices. Just ask.  

[britishjohn]

yes wrong terminology, I meant extending...

Anyway I'm fed up with trying to resolve the income thing, I'll just pay in the 800k. Next year I may do swift transfers so I can revert to the income method. 

 

When do the funds need to be in the account prior to the application date ? Is it 2 and 3 months ? I have heard both.

What are the rules about leaving funds in the account after extension ?

How recent do the bank documents need to be ?

I have heard people talk about making a cash withdrawal on the day of application. what's that all about ?

 

 

 

 

[Max69xl]

37 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

yes wrong terminology, I meant extending...

Anyway I'm fed up with trying to resolve the income thing, I'll just pay in the 800k. Next year I may do swift transfers so I can revert to the income method. 

 

When do the funds need to be in the account prior to the application date ? Is it 2 and 3 months ? I have heard both.

What are the rules about leaving funds in the account after extension ?

How recent do the bank documents need to be ?

I have heard people talk about making a cash withdrawal on the day of application. what's that all about ?

Money in the bank 2 months before applying when doing an extension, if you have changed visa from TR to Non-imm Retirement O, then you just need the 800k in the bank.  

After extension you need >800k in your account 90 days,and you have to show that to immigration.

Same day (important) you apply for extension,you go to your bank and ask for a bank letter (ask for guarantee for immigration, 100 baht at BB),withdraw the cost for the guarantee and extension= 2000 baht total.Update the bank book (important) so the amount in the book is same as in the bank letter . With the withdraw you showed immigration an active account.

You then need copies of the first page in the book + copies of the pages for the last 2 months. Then you sign the copies yourself at the bottom on each copy. Always use a pen with blue ink when signing documents.

[britishjohn]

Thanks that's useful, the mist is slowly clearing. 

If we didn't have a forum like this I wonder how we would be expected to know all this minutiae. I'm not aware it's on any immigration website.

Isn't there also some rule about leaving 400k in the bank after the first 90 days ?

 

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

Thanks that's useful, the mist is slowly clearing. 

If we didn't have a forum like this I wonder how we would be expected to know all this minutiae. I'm not aware it's on any immigration website.

Isn't there also some rule about leaving 400k in the bank after the first 90 days ?

 

Yes,that's the new crappy rule from March 1. You need >400k until next 1 year extension. That's the reason I mentioned the FDA with better interest.

[Jingthing]

Really? I read the newsletter from PCEC a couple of months ago, and the word was the combo method was denied in Jomtien. 

His example had an embassy letter.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[britishjohn]

So you have to return to immigration after 90 days to show the 800k, presumably with bank certificates, bank book updated etc etc again.

But what about the 400k, do you have to prove that at any stage ?

I'm just wondering if I had a separate account for the following year in which I received the proper swift monthly receipts, might I be able to get my second extension without them even looking at the 400k ? just an idle thought...

 

 

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

His example had an embassy letter.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes, you're correct. But earlier this year PCEC wrote that they heard about people being denied the combo-method. The whole idea with the combo-method was to use an affidavit from your embassy in combination with money in the bank.

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

So you have to return to immigration after 90 days to show the 800k, presumably with bank certificates, bank book updated etc etc again.

But what about the 400k, do you have to prove that at any stage ?

I'm just wondering if I had a separate account for the following year in which I received the proper swift monthly receipts, might I be able to get my second extension without them even looking at the 400k ? just an idle thought...

 

 

You only need a copy of the info page and last extension in the passport, copy of the first page with your name and a copy of the last page in your bank book,updated of course,and signed at the bottom. Just 4 copies. I would have the bank book in my pocket just to be sure. You must have the >400k until next extension but topped up with another 400k, because you need >800k for next extension.

[britishjohn]

The time is fast approaching when I need to send 800k here for visa extension. Shame about the appalling exchange rate !

 

Anyway I just wanted to double check something. Does it have to be there 2 months before hand or is it 3 months ?

And what is the relevant date... the date which I apply for extension or the date my current permission to stay expires ?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, britishjohn said:

Anyway I just wanted to double check something. Does it have to be there 2 months before hand or is it 3 months ?

And what is the relevant date... the date which I apply for extension or the date my current permission to stay expires ?

The 800k baht needs to be in the bank for 2 months on the day you apply for the extension of stay.

[britishjohn]

I had a meeting with a lawyer today on an unrelated matter but we did briefly discuss extending the OA visa. He claims that the first time you do it, the 800k needs to be in your account 2 months before, however on subsequent extensions it will need to be 3 months. Can anyone comment on this ?