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THAI to lease, sell aircraft to turnaround after big losses in 1H


webfact

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Flew a few years back business class and the service was only adequate, the food poor for business standard fare, the staff not working at pleasing the customer in small yet significant ways.

All in all a poor service.

Oh on my return to home, they insisted on charging me extra baggage rates above 20kgs! (may have changed now, but back then incomprehensible to me as a regular other airline business flyer).

Oh! ... the plane was an older 747 too!

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20 hours ago, webfact said:

Thai airways reports loss of 122% in Q2

An airline run by government committee - who'd thought it couldn't be profitable?

Time for the Parliament House to question Super Committee Chairman for State-owned Enterprises PM Prayut on the future of THAI and endless government financing.

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Do they even fly into the US anymore? The largest Thai expat community in the world and they pretty much ignore it. I remember when I did fly with Thai through LA once. It was a miserable experience. Changing not only airlines but having to hand carry luggage from one terminal to the international terminal a half mile away. All to stand in line forever at the counter. Never again. Everybody I know in the US avoids LAX. No wonder Thai lost money on the route. 

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58 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Do they even fly into the US anymore? The largest Thai expat community in the world and they pretty much ignore it. I remember when I did fly with Thai through LA once. It was a miserable experience. Changing not only airlines but having to hand carry luggage from one terminal to the international terminal a half mile away. All to stand in line forever at the counter. Never again. Everybody I know in the US avoids LAX. No wonder Thai lost money on the route. 

Service to USA was stopped years ago but the fuel guzzling fleet (A-340’s) is still collecting dust in Thailand. 

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On 8/14/2019 at 11:10 AM, Blue bruce said:

Why don't they hire am experienced and competent president and staff who know how to run an airline

This airline is run on nepotism.

 

 

That would mean a non Thai that will never happen, they would rather go broke than have a foreigner sort them out. They are insanely over staffed and need to cut out the useless managers and cut routes and end all the free rides, dream on.

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As I replied on another thread all Thai staff should be made to watch SG video "In a class of their own" Thai are followers not leaders. So in 2014 when major airlines started ditching 4 engine fuel guzzlers Thai did not. So now they have an inefficient fleet. What hurts also is their business class has a bad reputation by travel agents worldwide 

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THB 6.8 billion = USD 200 million or just over one million dollars each and every day. Are you kidding? Who covers all those are"*ç%"ç*s? 

Kick out the entire management as provenly absolutely incapable, get some outside professionals to do a proper study which will result in a huge shake-up in yet another most corrupted symbol of Thai inefficiency.

What a sad statement on an airline which up to 1992 was a STAR in the alliance. 

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57 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

THB 6.8 billion = USD 200 million or just over one million dollars each and every day. Are you kidding? Who covers all those are"*ç%"ç*s? 

 

Absolutely incredible. And this charlatan just completely shifts the blame - 

 

- Mr. Sumeth Damrongchaitham, The airline’s President, said the factors include the strongest Thai baht in 7 years, leading to a difficult competitive environment due to its inability to reduce the ticket price

- the airline’s revenue is affected by the conflict between India and Pakistan, which means the airline lost a number of Pakistani passengers, reducing number of Chinese tourists due to the Yuan appreciation 

- Mr. Sumeth blamed the 12 aircraft grounded for maintenance, which leads to a decrease in the number of flights

 

The national carrier based in the most visited city in the world losing $1M a day! I don't think there is any chance of them recovering from this. 

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With aviation fuel paid for in dollars and the baht strong against the dollar you might expect there would be some leeway in reducing fares. They probably signed for long term fuel deals at ridiculous rates with some one getting a nice commission.

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On 8/14/2019 at 5:23 AM, marko kok prong said:

They have been in crisis now for two or three years,my only surprise is they are still operating,with these sort of losses,if it continues,they will go under, unless the Govt bail them out,which from the report seems unlikely.

Two or three years? Really, 'marko kok', I would have said a couple of decennia, forgetting about previous times when important losses, with the same cause as presently, were simply wiped away every year, with taxpayers' money as usual, in a 'discrete' way, the Thai Kingdom's glorious reputation obliged...

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THAI wants to sell airplanes nobody wants, and that at funnily OTT prices, straight from the totally over-rated inventory-value in its, erm, quite creative, books.

THAI wants to lease out airplanes nobody is looking out for, why would they otherwise want to get rid of these and 'buy' other ones, also in 'configurations' which seemed oh so good, ...probably only to the numbnuts in the fat chairs' 'mia noys'...

THAI is a total DISASTER, but don't tell the guys high, ...and very high, up there, as you will hurt their pride... Where they got their pride from, and which reason(s) they would have to be proud, other questions which are not part of this topic...

I remember 30(!) years ago calls to (...attempt to) sell THAI, or, at least, to find 'international partner airlines', and, anyway, to have international airline experts (...so, no Thais) to re-organise it, and run it with full powers, ...also on all Thai nationals, of all levels. Guess what happened? NOTHING! ...Then, till now, and in any foreseeable future!

Why? N°1: Thai misplaced pride, ...and N°2: all the Thai individuals (at all levels) who are milking the cow...

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54 minutes ago, tso310 said:

With aviation fuel paid for in dollars and the baht strong against the dollar you might expect there would be some leeway in reducing fares. They probably signed for long term fuel deals at ridiculous rates with some one getting a nice commission.

Maybe 'tso310', but, when so, wouldn't you think some accounts in tax paradises are running up, and up, by the hour, by the gallon of kerosene? Who sets up those contracts, who undersigns these? Let's ask the NCCC to dig it up! Oops, no, can't even ask these, as it seems from today's news... LOL!

Previously, the ones calling the LoS, Thailand, the 'Land of Scams', could, would have been considered overly bitter and opinionated in their joke of poor humour... But look at it, knowing what we have witnessed here in recent 'h'istory, and, alas, yes, 'Land of Scams' is one of the accurate definitions, worse: only one in a, sadly, long row of negative 'aspects'.

'Thainess'? I still hope not! Maybe in the tricks the crooks are using, but not in the mind of any Thai I know. 'The vulgum' remains silent, very much so, carefull and distant, still scared for now...

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21 hours ago, Toosetinmyways said:

As I replied on another thread all Thai staff should be made to watch SG video "In a class of their own" Thai are followers not leaders. So in 2014 when major airlines started ditching 4 engine fuel guzzlers Thai did not. So now they have an inefficient fleet. What hurts also is their business class has a bad reputation by travel agents worldwide 

There are only two classes on Thai Airways.....Cattle Class and 'Do you know who i am class' !

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On 8/14/2019 at 4:37 PM, mike324 said:

For the amount of tourists that has been arriving in the past decade yet they can't turn a profit.... truly incompetent. Its not as if THAI airway fares are overprice, if you buy it outside of Thailand THAI prices are competitive, this is the same for any airlines (lets not talk about how much it cost to fly THAI from Thailand to another destination).

They made a profit up to about 2014. I wonder why?

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On 8/14/2019 at 4:01 PM, Wiggy said:

And of course, this isn’t part of the normal operation of an airline is it? What a ridiculous statement. So does this mean that in order to make a profit the airline shouldn’t maintain its aircraft? Scary. Lol. 

Perhaps these are aircraft grounded because they are overdue maintenance procedures, which they cannot afford to carry out?

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12 hours ago, JAG said:

Perhaps these are aircraft grounded because they are overdue maintenance procedures, which they cannot afford to carry out?

Could well be. 12 simultaneously parked aircraft seems a lot to me.

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Just a relevant example 'at the side', as it concerns the same kind of Thai 'decision makers' ...of the same chinese origin.

Some time ago, I was interested, for private stuff, to rent a couple of empty 'shop units' where we stay. The (Thai-)Chinese here have being building hundreds of those, nearly all empty, ...and unattended. The monthly rent for these in the neighbourhood was 12,000. I asked several owners, and got prices from 15 to 18,000. When asked about the reason for the important increase, the answer was every time: yes, you know, we haven't rented it out for 'x' years now, and we need to compensate for our losses... Also those buildings were in a sad state: not a lick of paint since 'finished', mouldy walls inside, leaking roofs, blocked doors and bursting windows...

So, what's my story? That the same, politically appointed, (Thai-)Chinese who are 'running' THAI (whether from 'elites' or military/police), can't be supposed to care any better about an airline's assets as what theydo with their own's...

...And no chance at all this 'national carrier', will allow non-Thai international experts to set it straight, ...as the first 'must' items would be: TOTAL control over finances and organisation, FULL 'hire-and-fire' rights, and more of the same authorithy over locals: can't happen with Thailand's pride!

Well then, let it go under miserably, when that's what they want, they own it after all, BUT alert all potential THAI passengers that, outside of the presently very poor service on the ground AND on board, ...the means might also fail to service and maintain the airplanes as they should be, whatever the overly expensive ticket prices might let expect! 

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On 8/16/2019 at 11:54 AM, trainman34014 said:

There are only two classes on Thai Airways.....Cattle Class and 'Do you know who i am class' !

Well, I heard it was

  1. Cattle Class
  2. Do you know who my father is Class
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On 8/14/2019 at 2:01 PM, trainman34014 said:

Now the biggest loss making Airline in Aviation History.  

thats untrue

- there was many others with temporary higher looses.. ex. PanAm, in the last month of life 1991

-there was others w simmilar looses due to partly external factors AA,UA, Malysian,and others

first two went true Bancrupt procedure Chapter 11, last take over by state

-All Asian Airlines are profitable, far away from truth,Airinida a loos making giant,Malaysian and others

 

To keep Airlines profitable, over the long run, is a very dificult task, high fixed and variable costs,external factors,Reputation,competition of low coast carriers,Oil and security costs ( sep the last years, a hudge hombase with intensive cost for labour , and so on

 

Before speculating the factors of the looses,would be better to read the balance sheet and yearly report of thai to find out.

 

Yes there are managment failures, but that not explain all and the whole situation.

 

So far ,Thai Air , is better than its reputation here in the Forum

 

In case of a failure of the airlines, a bailout ( goverment) or a possible invcrease in share capital is highly likely

 

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The Thai government will not let the flagship airline for the country go bust, They will do all it takes to bail them out.

A country without its own airline is a big loss of face.

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On 8/16/2019 at 8:17 PM, JAG said:

Perhaps these are aircraft grounded because they are overdue maintenance procedures, which they cannot afford to carry out?

When I used to be a line manager in the RAF part of my job was to look at all the aircraft flying hours for any servicing due soon, any faults that were carried and compare that with the next few days flight plans.

 

My boss would read the schedule and either pull forward or extend the servicing. That was back in 1979/80.

 

Thai obviously has no idea of that sort of planning.

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21 hours ago, bangrak said:

Well then, let it go under miserably, when that's what they want, they own it after all, BUT alert all potential THAI passengers that, outside of the presently very poor service on the ground AND on board, ...the means might also fail to service and maintain the airplanes as they should be, whatever the overly expensive ticket prices might let expect! 

That presumably would lead to the Airline being prevented from flying international routes - didn't something similar happen to Garuda some years ago?

 

Now that would involve major loss of face!

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Easy way to get immediate cash, but will be one time shot to their cash holdings. But leases add more to annual operating costs yearly. And surely doesn't fix the fundamental problem that total annual costs exceed total annual revenues. Thai Air will never turn a profit.

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