Getting a Tax ID - implications ?

[britishjohn]

I visited the tax office in Asoke today, just to find out requirements to get a tax TIN number.

 

With banks asking for this number in order to open offshore  accounts or even change address on existing accounts I thought it would be useful to have. I'm also claiming non resident status in the Uk having only spent 1 week there in the last tax year and I'm not certain if this is something the tax authorities there may ask for.

 

I have no income here and only bring in money from savings. But my question is, if I obtain one am I opening up a can of worms. Will I then be perpetually required to file tax returns every year ?

[BestB]

I could be wrong but I doubt you could get tax number without a work permit but if you could , how would you justify income without work permit 

[partington]

You can get a tax number without a work permit. I did so myself a few years ago in the Asoke office, for the same reason, a Jersey bank making a Thai TIN request.

 

You can use it for example to reclaim tax back on certain bank deposits, and do not need to be working.

 

There is no obligation to fill in a tax return every year if you have a tax number, Just as in other countries if you fall below the income levels or lack the type of income that make you liable for tax you do not need to do a return.

[asiaexpat]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

I could be wrong but I doubt you could get tax number without a work permit but if you could , how would you justify income without work permit 

No work permit needed, in fact retired can get a tax id number. I have had one for many years so I can claim bank interest tax refunds. 

[britishjohn]

I can think of many reasons why a non working person may need a tax ID. I could for example be bringing in foreign income in same the year I've earned it.  That would be pretty daft of course unless it's unavoidable, but theoretically possible.

 

Interestingly I recently opened an account in the isle of man and they wanted my Thai tax ID. I told them I'm not under any obligation to get an ID and they accepted that. 

 

So anyway it sounds like it's worth doing and not really any downside.

[Crisu]

I could be wrong but I doubt you could get tax number without a work permit but if you could , how would you justify income without work permit 

I received a tax no. last year in BKK without work permit.
I just showed them my fixed deposit account and told them i want to claim back the withholding tax. To do this i need a TIN.
Needed also something for proov of adress and passport. Thats it.
But i never did a tax decleration later. Just wanted a thai TIN just in case i need it obe day.

[Beggar]

Applied for one in Jomtien two months ago. Strange thing. Was asked to come again and fill in a form with many questions like when I retired, how many tax years I spent in Thailand, about pension and other income here and abroad and where else I pay taxes and how much I spend and where the money comes from and so on.

 

My refund I didn't get yet. Was asked for Prompt Pay what I tried to set up but finally was not accepted at the Revenue Department because it was not based on a Thai ID card but only verified by my phone number. So I will get something (don't know what) that I can put into an account at a Krung Thai bank. I should set up an account there I was told. Other banks are not possible. 

 

I went there with my Thai girlfriend. They don't speak much English there and so this was a good idea. 

 

If you have the tax ID tell it your banks otherwise they might charge you now taxes on interest payments all the time and not only when 20.000 Baht are reached. 

[topt]

On 8/16/2019 at 5:23 PM, Beggar said:

My refund I didn't get yet. Was asked for Prompt Pay what I tried to set up but finally was not accepted at the Revenue Department because it was not based on a Thai ID card but only verified by my phone number. So I will get something (don't know what) that I can put into an account at a Krung Thai bank. I should set up an account there I was told. Other banks are not possible

There have been several threads on this since the start of this year when they stopped sending out cheques for the refund. When you get your refund letter it (if same as most people) give 3 options -

Prompt pay

Krung Thai account

E-Money card

 

The E-Money card is simply an ATM card which the bank issues and loads with the amount of the refund taken from the bar code on the letter which you then go and set up in the branch ATM (pin number) and then withdraw the cash.

[topt]

On 8/16/2019 at 5:23 PM, Beggar said:

Applied for one in Jomtien two months ago. Strange thing. Was asked to come again and fill in a form with many questions like when I retired, how many tax years I spent in Thailand, about pension and other income here and abroad and where else I pay taxes and how much I spend and where the money comes from and so on.

If you apply for a refund after March not sure how it works - presume you just pay a 100 or 200 baht penalty for filing late?

I think I was shown a similar form some years ago and basically gave them little or no information especially figures - as advised by the lady (was this on the 4th floor?). The form may have changed of course.

[Beggar]

35 minutes ago, topt said:

If you apply for a refund after March not sure how it works - presume you just pay a 100 or 200 baht penalty for filing late?

I think I was shown a similar form some years ago and basically gave them little or no information especially figures - as advised by the lady (was this on the 4th floor?). The form may have changed of course.

Yes this was on the 4th floor. I don't remember anymore if I paid for late filing. Very bad that I forget something like this. My girlfriend did all the conversations and so my brain was mostly switched off. I simply wanted to get it behind me. Such things get on my nerves. At one counter I had to pay for copies and at another counter some meters away additional copies were free - I gave them 100 Baht tip. I would have had to go somewhere to make copies. What I couldn't get from the banks were tax paying documents for years before last year - sadly. 

 

Update - just asked my girlfriend. He said normally I would have to pay 200 Baht for late filing. But I didn't have to pay. Don't ask me why.

 

 

[Beggar]

50 minutes ago, topt said:

There have been several threads on this since the start of this year when they stopped sending out cheques for the refund. When you get your refund letter it (if same as most people) give 3 options -

Prompt pay

Krung Thai account

E-Money card

 

The E-Money card is simply an ATM card which the bank issues and loads with the amount of the refund taken from the bar code on the letter which you then go and set up in the branch ATM (pin number) and then withdraw the cash.

Prompt Pay I set up. But it was only set up based on my phone number. This the revenue department can not use I was told. This E-Money card where do I get it from? Which bank? Is it a lot of effort?

[topt]

8 minutes ago, Beggar said:

Prompt Pay I set up. But it was only set up based on my phone number. This the revenue department can not use I was told. This E-Money card where do I get it from? Which bank? Is it a lot of effort?

If you have a KT account you don't need it. If not go to the Krung Thai bank with your letter when you get it. Tell them you want the E-money card to get your refund. They will need passport and the letter and then depending whether they have done it before will take anything from 15 minutes to an hour.......

 

The KT branch in BiG C Second road mall did mine so if you go there should not be an issue ???? 

[Beggar]

21 minutes ago, topt said:

If you have a KT account you don't need it. If not go to the Krung Thai bank with your letter when you get it. Tell them you want the E-money card to get your refund. They will need passport and the letter and then depending whether they have done it before will take anything from 15 minutes to an hour.......

 

The KT branch in BiG C Second road mall did mine so if you go there should not be an issue ???? 

Thank you. I will test the branch in the Central Mall.

[Beggar]

On 8/18/2019 at 5:35 PM, topt said:

They will need passport and the letter and then depending whether they have done it before will take anything from 15 minutes to an hour.......

Today I tried to open this E-Money account. They asked for the passport and the tax refund letter and in addition for this piece of paper with the Tax ID  number on it. Tomorrow again... If I take everything into account like driving 2 times to the Revenue Department and going 3 times to banks - to be honest I can't remember when I worked so much in my life for so little money ????

[topt]

41 minutes ago, Beggar said:

and in addition for this piece of paper with the Tax ID  number on it.

I am surprised as would have thought the no. is on the letter and cannot think what else they want it for.

Sorry you are having so much trouble.

[Beggar]

1 minute ago, topt said:

I am surprised as would have thought the no. is on the letter and cannot think what else they want it for.

Sorry you are having so much trouble.

No - you did me great favor by explaining the E-Money option. I told her too that the number is on the letter. But she was prepared - she even showed me a sample of this missing Tax ID paper on her telephone. So I guess I was not the first one. Should have gone to your branch.... 

[britishjohn]

Ok I have another question. If you are resident here in Thailand, are you legally required to obtain a tax TIN even if you earn no money here ?

[topt]

4 hours ago, britishjohn said:

Ok I have another question. If you are resident here in Thailand, are you legally required to obtain a tax TIN even if you earn no money here ?

If you do not meet the requirements to pay tax I have never seen anything that says you have to obtain a TIN however it would be helpful if someone can prove otherwise? 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

From these forums it is clear that many foreigners do not so I would not worry about it. 

The local Thai tax office is certainly not going to chase you to get one

[nrasmussen]

If you do not meet the requirements to pay tax I have never seen anything that says you have to obtain a TIN however it would be helpful if someone can prove otherwise? 
http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html
 
From these forums it is clear that many foreigners do not so I would not worry about it. 
The local Thai tax office is certainly not going to chase you to get one

I have tried to get a TIN (my home country bank requested it), but since I was not liable to pay any tax they refused to issue one.

[moontang]

On 8/31/2019 at 1:29 PM, britishjohn said:

Ok I have another question. If you are resident here in Thailand, are you legally required to obtain a tax TIN even if you earn no money here ?

No...many have lawfully been here for years without one, mostly the liar letter club, but I found it surprisingly easy, and the head lady in CM had me in her office and was totally nice, like the old days.  She had her assistant do it for me, while we chatted.  Always be careful what you say and how you present yourself at a tax office.  Now I am up in BKK, and just went to the main revenue office by KSR..all good, but that KTB thing was just plain stupid.  And for many that put their 800k in a Mae Te Di account at krungsri for a combo of good interest and no withholding...they now take out 15% from all interest paid...I have gotten back between 500 and 3000 each year.  You could set up your FD to mature every two years, but they sometimes require you to take it monthly, otherwise, you could file on alternate years, no pompom.

[ThomasThBKK]

On 9/1/2019 at 2:58 PM, nrasmussen said:

On 8/31/2019 at 6:16 PM, topt said:

If you do not meet the requirements to pay tax I have never seen anything that says you have to obtain a TIN however it would be helpful if someone can prove otherwise? 
http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html
 
From these forums it is clear that many foreigners do not so I would not worry about it. 
The local Thai tax office is certainly not going to chase you to get one

I have tried to get a TIN (my home country bank requested it), but since I was not liable to pay any tax they refused to issue one.

Just tell them you have company shares and real estate and need to pay dividend taxes or rental income...

[jayceenik]

I've lived in LOS for some 30 years now.

A few years back I imported some money in view of buying a house for me and my TGF.

I wanted some interest for that money while it was waiting in the bank for the buy.

KrungThai would let me open a time deposit account as a simple retiree on stay extension but only if I gave them a Thai TIN and they sent me to get one to a Land Revenue office on Sukhumvit. There no problem to get it but I had to produce my studio rental contract.

This TIN is easy to deal with if you have no other income in Thailand outside bank account interest. And you'll get back from the tax office the excess tax taken by the bank on your interests. Excess because the total tax the bank has withdrawn applies to a bigger income level than yours.

 

Funny thing is that going recently through old personal papers I found that was already issued a Thai TIN some thirty years ago. Well, forgotten!!.

A military coup had taken place at the time and the new man in charge had decided that all foreigners who spent more than a stated amount of time a year in Thailand had to report their income (foreign and local) and be taxed on it. At the time I was working four weeks on/two weeks off in PNG (Port Moresby) and had to follow this new law if I wanted to keep spending my time off in Thailand so I duly reported a fake low income. I don't remember if I paid a tax on it. Anyway this coup was short lived. The King soon appointed the great Anand Panyarachun to clear the govt and everything went back to normal fast and I forgot about this pesky momentary TIN.

 

BTW A potential worrisome part of having a Thai TIN is that theoretically you have to notify the Land Revenue if you plan to leave Thailand for short or long time. 

 

[topt]

4 hours ago, jayceenik said:

BTW A potential worrisome part of having a Thai TIN is that theoretically you have to notify the Land Revenue if you plan to leave Thailand for short or long time. 

I think that requirement was abolished some time ago - unless someone knows differently?

 

[moontang]

7 minutes ago, topt said:

I think that requirement was abolished some time ago - unless someone knows differently?

 

I think that applies much more to those with WP.