Video: TM30: Thailand’s controversial immigration laws and their consequences - FCCT event

[WalkingOrders]

A lot of miscommunication here. 1. Next time allow presentations to be made in Thai with an interpreter. Most of this conversation seem to be lost in translation 2. I found many of the questions posed by the moderator to be quite rude. 3. I am left even more confused then I was before I saw this presentation. 4. I think there were some people in this room who are what I would consider to be people with some pull who could have sat down in private to discuss fully fleshed out proposals rather then putting people on the spot publicly. What purpose does it do to publicly tell a general he is understaffed and unable to effectively run his department? What purpose did it do to tell a woman translating herself to Thai that she cannot do so? I still don't even no what the damn app is for this.

 

I have the immigration app downloaded so I can do 90 day reports but there is no TM28-30 there, and you hardly discussed TM 28. I don't own a condo. So I would be reporting myself I guess with TM28? who knows. But yeah, next time allow both languages with interpreter. And a real interpreter not one guy who only understands half English for another guy who only understands half. Actually a gentleman like the one at the table who is a Thai citizen and speaks full Thai and English should play a much larger role in something like this.

[Orton Rd]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You can keep banging on about it but immigration officers hold all the cards. T. I. T. - live with it or find an alternative.

 

 

You could always try a call to 1155............................................ I wish you well with that one.

Such as the arrival cards with your address on filled out a few hours before the necessity of telling them it all over again- to go with the other 100 bits of paper they have collected over the years with the same address on, there's money to be made of course.

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, Jimdandy said:

My one question is, are there non-English speaking expat communities, i.e. from South America, Japan, South Korea and other locations who will also be affected? Has anyone reached out to them to collaborate and get their feelings about the TM30?

I know the large Japanese community around Phrom Phong is unhappy with it, along with the increase in police harassment in the area recently. Unfortunately both the Japanese government and the South Korean government have cracked down hard on Thai illegals in their own countries in the past few years, so neither of these nationalities are in a particularly strong position to complain about immigration enforcement here. 

[Jumbo1968]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

Such as the arrival cards with your address on filled out a few hours before the necessity of telling them it all over again- to go with the other 100 bits of paper they have collected over the years with the same address on, there's money to be made of course.

TBH I have no idea why you put an address in the Arrival Card, it is not inputted and let’s be honest how could they ever check you were actually going to that address. 

In fact I have no idea why you actually complete an Arrival Card, I lost my Departure Card and all I did was fill a new one in so if the barcode was scanned it wouldn’t match the first one.

 

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

and you hardly discussed TM 28. I don't own a condo. So I would be reporting myself I guess with TM28?

TM28 is not enforced at all, so currently nothing to worry about.

[Jumbo1968]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

TM28 is not enforced at all, so currently nothing to worry about.

It is at Jomtien, I was there on Friday to do mine.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It is at Jomtien, I was there on Friday to do mine.

Have you ever been fined for not submitting a TM28?

[Orton Rd]

9 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

TBH I have no idea why you put an address in the Arrival Card, it is not inputted and let’s be honest how could they ever check you were actually going to that address. 

In fact I have no idea why you actually complete an Arrival Card, I lost my Departure Card and all I did was fill a new one in so if the barcode was scanned it wouldn’t match the first one.

 

No point putting the address on it then, that is another waste of time. They should be making some sort of provision for people who have lived here for years at the same address.

[WalkingOrders]

4 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It is at Jomtien, I was there on Friday to do mine.

Yeah reading this, the law seem to read like this prop owners, mgrs etc do TM30 but I am supposed to do the TM28. So if someone did a TM30 on me, I better do a TM28, otherwise I may still be fined for still being listed in the system at some place I stayed at for 3 days a month ago. Now honestly in 3 years I have never done one of these forms. TO my knowledge I reported an addres change when I moved my address, and that was it. But when I visit relatives ?? They have no clue what a TM30 is, and neither would my wife if I hadn't told her. And why should I even know- as the form is NOT for me,  the TM 28 is for me. I should be doing a TM28 everywhere I go and everytime I come back is as I understand this. And there is supposed to be some website, sorry but that only leads to TM30 for owners. I am afraid to fill out anything to tell you the truth, so I wont. Don't even try to understand what I just said...I don't

[Artisi]

On 8/16/2019 at 3:28 PM, Beggar said:

No but they will need to apply for a terrorist visa. 

Is that on the list of occupations that foreigners can be employed to do - - - - seems more likely a banned occupation reserved for Thai's,---  any one else working illegally could be in trouble. 

[Jumbo1968]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Have you ever been fined for not submitting a TM28?

When I first moved into my current property I did a TM28 unfortunately I should have submitted it 24 hours after moving in.

I was ‘detained’ at Immigration for nearly 3 hours, they were going too fine me 3500 baht, I actually went too the ATM and withdrew the money but on my return they ‘released’ me.

 

i did another TM28 in May after returning from the U.K., I was informed after asking at Immigration if it was necessary, yes as you have a Non O Multi Entry Immigrant Visa, not required if it was an Extension of Stay/Retirement Visa.

 

Subsequently I did a TM28 on Friday where my documents were checked by Reception who stamped the part and returned it too me. 

[FarFlungFalang]

8 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Don't even try to understand what I just said...I don't

What I understand clearly from what you said is that the whole thing is very confusing and hard to understand!

[Jumbo1968]

12 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

No point putting the address on it then, that is another waste of time. They should be making some sort of provision for people who have lived here for years at the same address.

It would be interesting what people who can’t read or write English put on the Arrival Card.

[metisdead]

A troll post and a reply has been removed. 

[Navin]

This whole meeting could have been much more effective only if there was a professional English to Thai to English Interpretarator so that the officers could understand the questions properly and had given more relevant answers in Thai (which they are obviously more comfortable with) be interpreted back in English for the Audience.

[rickudon]

The TM30 business is ok if you are renting from a bona-fide Landlord. who will do the TM30. Out here in deepest Isaan most landlords have never heard of it, or want to. My wife was totally perplexed as to why I needed to do 90 day reports, Annual extensions, or exit-re-entry visas when I arrived.

 

When I said I needed a yellow book, she said there was no such thing …….

She would be mystified by a TM30 and would need to be hand-held through trying to fill one in. Fortunately only ever need to do once at my Immigration office (currently) and immigration usually do it for you.

 

To avoid this hassle people I know in other provinces always get wife or GF to book in when away from home - no record of farang then. Which, of course makes a mockery of the whole process.

[Jumbo1968]

7 minutes ago, rickudon said:

The TM30 business is ok if you are renting from a bona-fide Landlord. who will do the TM30. Out here in deepest Isaan most landlords have never heard of it, or want to. My wife was totally perplexed as to why I needed to do 90 day reports, Annual extensions, or exit-re-entry visas when I arrived.

 

When I said I needed a yellow book, she said there was no such thing …….

She would be mystified by a TM30 and would need to be hand-held through trying to fill one in. Fortunately only ever need to do once at my Immigration office (currently) and immigration usually do it for you.

 

To avoid this hassle people I know in other provinces always get wife or GF to book in when away from home - no record of farang then. Which, of course makes a mockery of the whole process.

I would imagine the reason why Owner’s/landlords etc don’t want to do a TM30 is because they don’t have Licence and also too avoid paying tax.

[watcharacters]

 

@ 04:31  Did he use the term  Retirement Visa?

 

The agent I use for my  90 day reports kept  referring to a 12 month permission to stay as a Retirement Visa.

She must have said it a dozen or more times during my visit to pick up my passport.  She's Thai.

[Kalasin Jo]

I see on Playstore Thai Immigration have an app for foreigners that has a 90 day reporting facility and by the looks of it little else of real use.

 

Instead of a separate app for the TM30 why don't they put it on this app for foreigners? 

 

Yes I know the law requires the housemaster to file the TM 30 who is 99% of the time not the foreigner, but if there is a problem getting the housemaster to do it, its you that gets a refusal on an extension application and probably you that has to pay any fine too on their behalf.

 

So why not add it to this app putting everything in one place for the foreigner?

 

Just an idea!

[WalkingOrders]

1 minute ago, watcharacters said:

 

@ 04:31  Did he use the term  Retirement Visa?

 

The agent I use for my  90 day reports kept  referring to a 12 month permission to stay as a Retirement Visa.

She must have said it a dozen or more times during my visit to pick up my passport.  She's Thai.

Why would you need an agent for 90 day reports. You can do them online in two minutes. 

[watcharacters]

On 8/16/2019 at 2:20 PM, Jonathan Fairfield said:

They have or had something very similar which required foreigners to report whenever they stayed somewhere other than their registered address overnight. 

 

The wife and I were assigned an InTourist guide for each city we visited.     No mucking about allowed.

 

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Why would you need an agent for 90 day reports. You can do them online in two minutes. 

You missed the point entirely but that's understandable.

[WalkingOrders]

5 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

You missed the point entirely but that's understandable.

OKay wink wink nod 

[aqua4]

On 8/16/2019 at 2:53 PM, zydeco said:

@1.33:45 Why implement this rule when TI is already understaffed and overwhelmed with paperwork?  Reply? Here are all the things you must do when you enter Thailand. Essentially, no answer.

Here is a novel idea. Why not be like China and renew the marriage visa once every 2 years. That cuts the paper down to half and makes loads of free time for other things? We are not going to have that because Thailand is more xenophobic than even China. 

[hagai]

14 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Why would you need an agent for 90 day reports. You can do them online in two minutes. 

you can do it, others are trying without success since the beta version came out long ago.

[ThomasThBKK]

16 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

The yellow Ta bian is refused for non-married people in many amphur. If you are refused, you could take the amphur at the administrative court for free (or it cost very little), no lawyer needed and the administration NEEDS to follow the registration act of 1991 and the modifications of 2008 including its regulations.

And to add to this, every amphur got issued a leaflet/book with instructions to do the tabiaan baan for foreigners by the Interior Minister - they just straight out make up their own bs and refuse it, they know exactly how to do it and that they won't stand a chance if you go against them.

[KhaoYai]

6 hours ago, pookondee said:

The head guy didnt know the English word for document, (not that he should be expected to)

Really? You don't think a man in charge of Bangkok's immigration department should be 100% fluent in the international language?

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I think there were some people in this room who are what I would consider to be people with some pull who could have sat down in private to discuss fully fleshed out proposals rather then putting people on the spot publicly.

Totally agree, this being Thailand and knowing the way things are done, there is far more likelihood of things getting done behind closed doors than there is by public meetings.

[sfokevin]

3 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I found many of the questions posed by the moderator to be quite rude.

We in the expatriate community are being confronted with a totalitarian and xenophobic policy... I don’t see any reason we should not ask some direct questions even if they come off as rude... 

[garyk]

1 hour ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I would imagine the reason why Owner’s/landlords etc don’t want to do a TM30 is because they don’t have Licence and also too avoid paying tax.

Yes, I have been turned away in CM, hotel did not want to be hassled.