Police make arrests as right-wing, anti-fascist groups rally in Portland

[Rimmer]

A personal attack has been removed

[lust]

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

They look like rather respectable compares to these guys.

There would be a riot if they knew you called them “guys”.

[Jai Dee]

A troll post has been removed.

 

[metisdead]

A number of inflammatory posts, offensive posts and the equally offensive and inflammatory replies have been removed. 

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

10 hours ago, bendejo said:

"Anti-fascist organizations are terrorists!" says the fascist president.

 

The good guys are the ones who side with the police, right?

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2019/apr/24/pbb-patriot-prayer-logs/

 

https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2018/10/15/23710274/members-of-patriot-prayer-brought-loaded-firearms-to-roof-before-august-protest

 

 

 

Those who seek to destroy society, stop others lawfully expressing their right to free speech when they disagree with their politics, and use excuses to assault the police, destroy property and loot are terrorists.

 

Seems Anfita ticks those boxes. An assortment of bitter left wing political groups out for trouble. Determined that people can only be allowed the views they dictate.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, mikebike said:

Because the police work for the govt. Have you been watching HK?

 

They work for the government to enforce laws made by and passed by the government. 

 

If you don't like those laws, vote for a different government, if you can.

 

But Antifa have an agenda - promote left wing ideologies and prevent any who disagree from speaking, marching, demonstrating or expressing other views. More totalitarian regimes came/come from left wing politics than right wing ones.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, mikebike said:

No. It is a very logical comparison for any student of history.

 

Would you care do demonstrate your thinking in suggesting that comparison to be logical, in detail for us?

 

Most people fail to appreciate that Nazis are left wing. And probably don't spot the similarity with the Democrat Party and their use of witch-hunt legal persecution on trumped up charges (no pun intended) to stifle political opposition.

[Tug]

Thankfully Portland’s mayor handled the situation with competence no one got killed no serious injures dodged the bullet again 

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, yogi100 said:

They're actually described as right wing, anti fascist groups in the topic heading.

 

That tends to imply that the leftists are are the fascists and the right wingers are the decent people trying to resist and subdue their violent behaviour.

 

Throughout the Western world it's usually the left who are the first resort to violence in any political demonstration.

 

Violent left wing thugs win the day only because they accuse the right of being nazis or fascists thereby allowing Hitler's legacy to live on. But what happened in Germany 75 - 90 years ago has no bearing on Western politics in the 21st century.

 

Actually Nazis or National Socialists are extreme left politically. Communists and Nazis have different extreme left ideologies and don't get on, hence the violent confrontations. Fascists are extreme right.

[canuckamuck]

Fascists can be either left or right, racists can be left or right. Socialists can only be left

Nazi Germany was economically socialist but also fascist by being nationalistic and racist and a police state. They created a common enemy of the Jews and blamed them for the world's woes. The Nazi's used fear anger and intolerance of ideas and opinions as a source of power and control.  The racism and nationalism did not make them right or left. It was an extension of their intolerance to alternate views.

 

The modern left is globalist instead of nationalist but for the same goal of total ideological control. They are also making it quite clear that the world's woes are caused by rich white men. Which really is very similar to the antisemitism of Nazi Germany. They are clearly socialist, so no question about that category. Which leaves the business about the police state. Those in the left who wish to remove the right to free speech, are clearly the type who would also welcome a police state, and these days the left has also cornered the market on social media and intelligence gathering of the citizens.

 

It the Nazi's were around today, they would be camouflaged perfectly inside the left wing, and simultaneously abhorred by the right.  And by true liberals.

 

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Fascists can be either left or right, racists can be left or right. Socialists can only be left

Nazi Germany was economically socialist but also fascist by being nationalistic and racist and a police state. They created a common enemy of the Jews and blamed them for the world's woes. The Nazi's used fear anger and intolerance of ideas and opinions as a source of power and control.  The racism and nationalism did not make them right or left. It was an extension of their intolerance to alternate views.

 

The modern left is globalist instead of nationalist but for the same goal of total ideological control. They are also making it quite clear that the world's woes are caused by rich white men. Which really is very similar to the antisemitism of Nazi Germany. They are clearly socialist, so no question about that category. Which leaves the business about the police state. Those in the left who wish to remove the right to free speech, are clearly the type who would also welcome a police state, and these days the left has also cornered the market on social media and intelligence gathering of the citizens.

 

It the Nazi's were around today, they would be camouflaged perfectly inside the left wing, and simultaneously abhorred by the right. 

 

Your first paragraph was good.

[ArtHay]

Once again we see people claiming the pro-privatization, anti-union, anti-socialist Nazis were socialist. This is an idea that as far as I know is shared by no credible historian and seems to have originated within the contemporary American right.

The fact is that the main opposition to the Nazis came from the political left. The communist party, KPD, and the popular social democrat party, SPD. Both parties would be banned by 1934 and their leaders, those who didn’t flee, were arrested. All three major trade union federations were also shut down, their funds were seized and their leaders were thrown into concentration camps.

The parties of the German right generally supported the Nazis in the Reichstag and they voted with the Nazis to pass the Enabling Act of 1933 which gave Hitler extraordinary powers. The only party to vote against the enabling act were the social democrat SPD, whose leader Otto Wels bravely confronted Hitler in the Reichstag to speak in defense of German democracy.

Hitler actually only became chancellor because a conservative politician and former chancellor himself, Franz Von Papen, convinced Reich President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler, who the conservative Junker Hindenburg saw as a rabble rouser and ruffian to the post.


Sorry I know I know this is a bit dry and a bit long for our forum.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[simple1]

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Those who seek to destroy society, stop others lawfully expressing their right to free speech when they disagree with their politics, and use excuses to assault the police, destroy property and loot are terrorists.

Your description is equally applies to the antics of the right of centre. However, in current Western democracies, IMO, the right is much more agressive with suppression if 'free speech. Regards your comments re Nazism, very much a right of centre deflection...

 

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/27/18283879/nazism-socialism-hitler-gop-brooks-gohmert

 

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/

[canuckamuck]

7 hours ago, ArtHay said:

Once again we see people claiming the pro-privatization, anti-union, anti-socialist Nazis were socialist. This is an idea that as far as I know is shared by no credible historian and seems to have originated within the contemporary American right.

The fact is that the main opposition to the Nazis came from the political left. The communist party, KPD, and the popular social democrat party, SPD. Both parties would be banned by 1934 and their leaders, those who didn’t flee, were arrested. All three major trade union federations were also shut down, their funds were seized and their leaders were thrown into concentration camps.

The parties of the German right generally supported the Nazis in the Reichstag and they voted with the Nazis to pass the Enabling Act of 1933 which gave Hitler extraordinary powers. The only party to vote against the enabling act were the social democrat SPD, whose leader Otto Wels bravely confronted Hitler in the Reichstag to speak in defense of German democracy.

Hitler actually only became chancellor because a conservative politician and former chancellor himself, Franz Von Papen, convinced Reich President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler, who the conservative Junker Hindenburg saw as a rabble rouser and ruffian to the post.


Sorry I know I know this is a bit dry and a bit long for our forum.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

This is a difficult subject to address without writing essays on the subject, but you are manipulating the truth by avoiding the context. Firstly, Europe was big into socialism in the 30's so opposition from different socialist groups did not indicate that it was a left right battle. Rather it was the Marxists who opposed Hitler's brand of socialism. Hitler also did not tolerate union bosses because he was a totalitarian.

On privatization, the privatization was into the hands of Nazi party members, so that the Nazi's had access to the profits and production of industry. They also attached price controls and  production targets. This is not privatization in the normal sense, it was Nazi privatization

Here is a brief explanation of how Nazi price controls worked out. The very opposite of free market capitalism.

Quote

2. Price Control in Germany
It has been asserted again and again that German experience has proved that price control is feasible and can attain the ends sought by the government resorting to it. Nothing can be more erroneous.

When the first World War broke out, the German Reich immediately adopted a policy of inflation. To prevent the inevitable outcome of inflation, a general rise in prices, it resorted simultaneously to price control.

Link

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Rather than get distracted by 1930s German Nazis, take a look at the far more directly relevant American Nazis of the same period.

 

From the 1930s to the present day American Nazis, the American Fascist moment and the American Neo-Nazi/Neo-Facist movements have and remain on the extreme right of the American political spectrum.

 

They are, under this presidency, once more proudly marching on American streets.

 

Rather than offer poor arguments that they are not part of the right wing, let’s hear your condemnation of the hatred they preach and the violence they regard as a means to there political ends.

[canuckamuck]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Rather than get distracted by 1930s German Nazis, take a look at the far more directly relevant American Nazis of the same period.

 

From the 1930s to the present day American Nazis, the American Fascist moment and the American Neo-Nazi/Neo-Facist movements have and remain on the extreme right of the American political spectrum.

 

They are, under this presidency, once more proudly marching on American streets.

 

Rather than offer poor arguments that they are not part of the right wing, let’s hear your condemnation of the hatred they preach and the violence they regard as a means to there political ends.

 And what percentage of the US population identifies as Nazi?

[JAG]

29 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

 And what percentage of the US population identifies as Nazi?

Probably a very small proportion. But they exist, and appear to have been rather revitalised by the somewhat equivocal stance of Mr Trump and his government That in itself is cause for concern, not least when viewed in association with "militia" groups, and access to military type weapons.

[daoyai]

35 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Rather than get distracted by 1930s German Nazis, take a look at the far more directly relevant American Nazis of the same period.

 

From the 1930s to the present day American Nazis, the American Fascist moment and the American Neo-Nazi/Neo-Facist movements have and remain on the extreme right of the American political spectrum.

 

They are, under this presidency, once more proudly marching on American streets.

 

Rather than offer poor arguments that they are not part of the right wing, let’s hear your condemnation of the hatred they preach and the violence they regard as a means to there political ends.

Off topic,  were they (Neo-nazisKKKetc.) in Portland?...  is that the proud boys?...no is that Patriot prayer?...no, Oath keepers ?....no, the free speech movement?...no.  those are the people being attacked by Antifaaa. ...in Portland and other cities, if antifa creeps only "attacked" truly violent gangs they would be supported, not hated by us classic liberals.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, daoyai said:

Off topic,  were they (Neo-nazisKKKetc.) in Portland?...  is that the proud boys?...no is that Patriot prayer?...no, Oath keepers ?....no, the free speech movement?...no.  those are the people being attacked by Antifaaa. ...in Portland and other cities, if antifa creeps only "attacked" truly violent gangs they would be supported, not hated by us classic liberals.

Putting aside American White Supremicists /American Nazis/Fascists have committed truly violent attacks.

 

Antifa, the clue is in the name.

[canuckamuck]

14 minutes ago, JAG said:

Probably a very small proportion. But they exist, and appear to have been rather revitalised by the somewhat equivocal stance of Mr Trump and his government That in itself is cause for concern, not least when viewed in association with "militia" groups, and access to military type weapons.

No, if they exist, they exist for the same reason Trump won the presidency. It is because the loony left threatens average Americans concept of America "Apple pie, baseball, and the American way".

[canuckamuck]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Putting aside American White Supremicists /American Nazis/Fascists have committed truly violent attacks.

 

Antifa, the clue is in the name.

Just like the word democratic is in North Korea's official title.

[Chomper Higgot]

19 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

Was watching this on the news,why is it all those on the left always cover their faces and start the trouble?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

mmmm....

 

https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/08/17/portland-mayor-responds-to-right-wing-organizers-threat-of-monthly-protests-we-do-not-want-him-here-in-my-city-period/

[rabas]

46 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Putting aside American White Supremicists /American Nazis/Fascists have committed truly violent attacks.

 

Antifa, the clue is in the name.

No surprise a lefty hate group uses their own hate speech in their name, doesn't make it so. I could call you a peaceful loving guy, that does not make it true, or false.

 

I am equally against righty hate groups, the hate has to stop. Our masters are stealing us blind as they have us screaming nonsense at each other. Overpriced health care increased a trillion dollars  per year since they had us start screaming about bathrooms. We could go to Mars and back 50 times a year for that money.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

No surprise a lefty hate group uses their own hate speech in their name, doesn't make it so. I could call you a peaceful loving guy, that does not make it true, or false.

 

I am equally against righty hate groups, the hate has to stop. Our masters are stealing us blind as they have us screaming nonsense at each other. Overpriced health care increased a trillion dollars  per year since they had us start screaming about bathrooms. We could go to Mars and back 50 times a year for that money.

Calling Antifa a hate group doesn’t make it so.

 

Opposing rightwing extremism and opposing the damage to the nation/planet being done by the Republicans and their paid for support of the hyper wealthy are not mutually exclusive.

[stevenl]

55 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

No, if they exist, they exist for the same reason Trump won the presidency. It is because the loony left threatens average Americans concept of America "Apple pie, baseball, and the American way".

'If they exist', you have got to be kidding.

[daoyai]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Calling Antifa a hate group doesn’t make it so.

 

Opposing rightwing extremism and opposing the damage to the nation/planet being done by the Republicans and their paid for support of the hyper wealthy are not mutually exclusive.

of course they are a hate group, they attack peaceful meetings of first amendment defenders, and speakers events featuring "jewnazis" (LoL) Milo Yanapolis and Ben Shapiro White supremos who happen to be black, Candice Owens, etc.

They violate permitted gathering on a regular basis.  ....if you happen to express support for the Prez by wearing a MAGA hat you can expect violence.. how about the journalist.Vietnamese. last name Gno... can't remember his first name recently hospitalized after an antifa assault,  Then there is the proud antifa member that cracked the guys scull with a bike lock... The recent case of the loonie leftist antifa guy trying to ignite a propane tank at an "Ice" facility... lucky the cops killed him.   Antifa is a terrorist organization.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, daoyai said:

of course they are a hate group, they attack peaceful meetings of first amendment defenders, and speakers events featuring "jewnazis" (LoL) Milo Yanapolis and Ben Shapiro White supremos who happen to be black, Candice Owens, etc.

They violate permitted gathering on a regular basis.  ....if you happen to express support for the Prez by wearing a Mega hat you can expect violence.. how about the journalist.Vietnamese. last name Gno... can't remember his first name recently hospitalized after an antifa assault,  Then there is the proud antifa member that cracked the guys scull with a bike lock... The recent case of the loonie leftist antifa guy trying to ignite a propane tank at an "Ice" facility... lucky the cops killed him.   Antifa is a terrorist organization.

'First Amendment defenders'.

 

I don't recall Antifa attacking the ACLU, but then perhaps claiming  someone/an organization  is a defender of the First Amendment doesn't make it so. 

 

 

[daoyai]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

'First Amendment defenders'.

 

I don't recall Antifa attacking the ACLU, but then perhaps claiming  someone/an organization  is a defender of the First Amendment doesn't make it so. 

 

 

Get real dude,  if antifa shuts down speaker event cuz they no like the message (protected free speech) the are anti-first amendment. .... anyone that fights for the right of free expression is a first amendment defender... ACLU used to do good work... now similar to the SPLC in their left wing bias.

[Jingthing]

I don't really want to defend Antifa because yes, in the USA, free speech, even the most vile and that includes Nazis is protected, and yes, non-violent dissent is best and Antifa has shown they are at least sometimes violent. However, there really is a growing movement of white supremacist terrorism in the USA that has now superseded Islamist terrorism as the most damaging. Antifa are over the top but they are not terrorists. The "trump" line of focusing on the non-existent terrorism of Antifa while at the same time continuing to throw signs of comfort and support to extremist American white supremacists is one reason for people that do oppose the rise of fascism in the USA to see that groups such as Antifa may really be necessary in the not too distant future. Hopefully not, but things seem to be getting worse, not better.

 

So in summary, fighting American fascism -- yes.

Fighting American white supremacism -- yes.

Suppressing free speech -- no. 

Violent tactics -- no. (At least not yet.)