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Lastest from Richard Barrow on TM30


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Stopped reading after ' The .. '

 

All this ...... publicity.....is working against ' us ' ....not for us. The more you rattle the immigration cage the worse you make it. 

 

If you want it to go away blank it out. It is their problem not ours.

 

And if you absolutely must shout out then brevity works better excess.

 

 

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7 hours ago, jackdd said:

Many things in this article are just wrong, too many for me to correct them all now, so i only correct the biggest mistake:

This is wrong, if you stay at a house or condo and have a rental contract in your name you will be considered the possessor and you also have the obligation to submit the TM30

Yet they (immigration) will insist on copies of the Tabien Baan and a copy the person who's name is on the Tabien Baans ID card. They didn't need this before, some copies of electric bills, etc was good enough.

 

This was Hua Hin 1 week ago. No change of address, just a trip abroad for a few days.

 

I didn't bother to go myself, I sent a Thai. It's their mess, they can sort it out amongst themselves.

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9 hours ago, Catkiwi said:

How does anyone know if you have travelled out of the province for the weekend? I would be filling out and going through the TM30 submission rigmarole most weekends, travelling inter-province to play golf....I guess I am not alone in this situation and I also guess that the majority will just not bother. 

 

I'm away tomorrow for 3 days and i won't be

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9 hours ago, Salerno said:

They don't ... unless you stay somewhere that lodges a TM30.

 

Which is why the hysteria on here is so ridiculous.

If me and she go see our friend and his wife, stay friday and saturday night and we drive back on sunday and they dont do a 30, as you say, who is going to know?

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18 hours ago, Catkiwi said:

How does anyone know if you have travelled out of the province for the weekend?

Only if you stay somewhere during that weekend that files a TM 30 on your behalf. If that is unlikely, nothing to worry about... 

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My conclusion from this (since last year already):

 

If you leave the country and come back. I go report the TM30.

 

If you travel within Thailand I gamble and see if I have to pay a fine at the next 90 days report.

 

Because if you come back via the airport they clearly see that and you have to pay the fine or report. No way around. I don't get why you can't report your address at the Airport btw. you do that but why you have to report it twice (TM30 and Arrival Card) but yeah Thailand logic.


But travelling in Thailand so far I never had a problem and any reports. I bet 90% of the hotels anyways don't report anything OR the reports just get thrown into the bin from the local police (they lazy).


Just my take ???? had to pay one time a fine already but it was because of flying back into the country. They enforced this stuff already last year in my local immigration office so it wasn't a surprise for me to see the Screaming that comes now. I was last year already upset, but I took it as it came.

Edited by burner2014
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9 minutes ago, burner2014 said:

My conclusion from this (since last year already):

 

If you leave the country and come back. I go report the TM30.

 

If you travel within Thailand I gamble and see if I have to pay a fine at the next 90 days report.

 

Because if you come back via the airport they clearly see that and you have to pay the fine or report. No way around. I don't get why you can't report your address at the Airport btw. you do that but why you have to report it twice (TM30 and Arrival Card) but yeah Thailand logic.


But travelling in Thailand so far I never had a problem and any reports. I bet 90% of the hotels anyways don't report anything OR the reports just get thrown into the bin from the local police (they lazy).


Just my take ???? had to pay one time a fine already but it was because of flying back into the country. They enforced this stuff already last year in my local immigration office so it wasn't a surprise for me to see the Screaming that comes now. I was last year already upset, but I took it as it came.

 

 

Which is your local immigration office..... it is useful to know.

 

 

 

You do report your address on arrival, via the TM6. Never reported to my local office in Buriram in 12 years (on domestic/international travel)  - and they told me there was no need to.

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29 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Which is your local immigration office..... it is useful to know.

 

 

 

You do report your address on arrival, via the TM6. Never reported to my local office in Buriram in 12 years (on domestic/international travel)  - and they told me there was no need to.

I suspect there are many offices ( maybe smaller ones, though CM is quite lenient as of now)  that do not make a deal about in country travel.   I also expect that the SMART posters here do not want to post about the "easy" offices .   Some things are better kept to ones self to keep things from changing.

 

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1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

One assumes at least 30 million (conservative admittedly) TM 30 filings each year, scattered all around the Kingdom, some paper in boxes, some digitial. Now they go looking for the address. How long does that take? 

Whether they are paper or digital shouldn't matter, all the information should be imputed into their database. If this doesn't happen then it is a pointless exercise from the get-go. Assuming it is all put into the database, a search should take seconds.

 

This system has been used for decades, primarily for hotels & guesthouses reporting occupants staying. However, now they have decided to actually enforce their TM30 rules (in most but not all provinces) the input into this database has dramatically increased and I don't think the infrastructure is able to cope. IMO this is one of the reasons why the delay is taking place for the issue of usernames & passwords once registered for online reporting.

 

On the same issue with the database though, how many false/positives are going to be created by allowing individual reporting? Currently there is responsibility for reporting occupancy for householders/possessors/house masters, etc, but there doesn't seem to be a responsibility for informing immigration when a guest leaves. So currently if a guest leaves and leaves the country, unless the immigration database is linked to the TM30 one (or the information goes into the main database) they will still remain in the system.

 

I may be wrong with my assumptions above, but that is the way I am seeing it. BTW, I can't see how this can help National Security as there are far too many loopholes. Not all provinces requiring reporting, 'local' immigration office rules and no strict penalties other than a small fine if one doesn't stick to the rules. In fact fair to say that unless someone has business with the immigration department, absolutely no reason for any visitor to concern themselves with this. Can't see many 'persons of interest' turning up at an immigration office.

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3 minutes ago, rumak said:

I suspect there are many offices ( maybe smaller ones, though CM is quite lenient as of now)  that do not make a deal about in country travel.   I also expect that the SMART posters here do not want to post about the "easy" offices .   Some things are better kept to ones self to keep things from changing.

 

 

 

Understand your point, but I don't think anything that is posted on Thai Visa will cause immigration to do anything other than what they are doing now.

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If me and she go see our friend and his wife, stay friday and saturday night and we drive back on sunday and they dont do a 30, as you say, who is going to know?

Difficult for us to hide anywhere. If you show up at a place, locals will talk and the chances to get a visit from officials is in my opinion quite likely..


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14 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Whether they are paper or digital shouldn't matter, all the information should be imputed into their database. If this doesn't happen then it is a pointless exercise from the get-go.

 

I'm imagining every immigration office, assuming they even require TM30's, accepting paper TM30's and then entering that into their database? Really? "Oh those? Yeah we recycled that paper last week."

 

 

 

Of course it's a pointless exercise, all done for show to satisfy higher-ups and a requirement for paperwork.

 

BTW, this database is increasing drastically every day - and I don't mean the couple of hundred thousand long-stayers, but the 38 million tourists, hundreds of millions of records, and they've simply created an ever-expandind haystack, reducing the chances of ever finding the needle or two.

 

Screen passenger manifests better while planes are in the air - they have a system for this.

Reject more passengers at the borders - the best place to find, screen and stop bad guys.

Once bad guys are in the country simply publish their details, offer rewards for help finding them.

 

 

Bad guys and gals are not going to be filing TM30's, nor will the places where they are staying. Pointless.

 

 

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Richard Barrow did a good job summarizing what the law states.  Of course, as many people have pointed out, different immigration offices have different levels of enforcement.  He is my experience with the office in Chiang Rai.

 

My wife or I must report when I return from any trip, domestic or international. It is easy for us since the immigration office is on our way home from the airport.  The last 2 times the IO took our paperwork, checked the online system, entered my new information and gave me a receipt.  My wife just registered online and she is waiting for her username and password.

 

 

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At the moment we (without User IDs and passwords) have no alternative, (to avoid a visit in person to CW in my case). It's not malicious compliance, but just compliance. The IMM officers at the FCCT complained of long hours and being overworked, failing to see the irony of a problem in their own making, and failing to see the obvious solution at their disposal, (adding sufficient staff to cope with their enforcement of a 40 year old dormant law). Indeed, they did not answer any of these related issues, but trotted out the falsehood that it's "easy" to register online, despite strong evidence to the contrary, of which they must be aware. None of their responses to questions actually answered what was being asked. The only faint glimmer of hope is that if they were not aware of the problems of the enforcement of this law in particular, (but as we know, not many others in the kingdom, such as, for example driving laws etc), they have acknowledged that now they are. They did not offer any means of addressing the issues, which would after all beneficially affect their own operation, and fulfill their well-intentioned desire to protect the security of the Thai state, for both Thais and foreigners. Unfortunately I do not expect any changes to be implemented.
 
You can report by post to Chaengwattana.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

You can report by post to Chaengwattana.

 

Yes, assuming that is your serving Immigration office.

 

Clearing TM30 mail submittals at CW seems to be up into the ~ 5 week range. One assumes the bad guys are both submitting their TM30's and waiting for a receipt before breaking the law? ????

 

How many other offices support TM30 mail submittals? One? Two? All?

 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Catkiwi said:

How does anyone know if you have travelled out of the province for the weekend? I would be filling out and going through the TM30 submission rigmarole most weekends, travelling inter-province to play golf....I guess I am not alone in this situation and I also guess that the majority will just not bother. 

 

Or just stop travelling around Thailand altogether

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19 hours ago, KBS999 said:

Ive had a retirement visa for 5 years. I didn't come here for any of this, TM30, 90 days, money in the bank. Its all too much. So many other places to go with out all this nonsense. Leaving in 8 days. YIPPEE 

Bye,bye..

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21 hours ago, jackdd said:

That's a CM speciality, actually a good one to make it easier, but afaik CM is the only province doing it this way

 

There is no need for the owner to do the first, this can be done by the tenant.

Important is that Chiang Mai requires one initial TM30 with the supporting documents, after you have done this the foreigner staying at this address can to it by himself in the way you described. (Submitting a TM30 + documents every time is of course still possible to do, so if somebody lives far away from the immigration office to do it the regular way by mail might be easier)

What other provinces have you checked this with?

 

Rumak's post was a sound solution for all tenants and landlords. Just make an agreement on who handles what and stick to it. For others with a current lease, communicating with the landlord or tenant will go a long way to solving the issues.

 

For the life of me I really can't see all the hate for this system. I can understand frustration if the online logins and passwords are  being sorted but that is a separate issue to the actual laws for this reporting.

 

Seriously, some people just aren't happy unless they are whinging and complaining about how they are being hard done by in a country where they are a visitor and have made life decisions that have led to them staying here.

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19 hours ago, KBS999 said:

Ive had a retirement visa for 5 years. I didn't come here for any of this, TM30, 90 days, money in the bank. Its all too much. So many other places to go with out all this nonsense. Leaving in 8 days. YIPPEE 

Good for you. You have realised the place is not for you and you have decided to move on and enjoy your life in a place that you will be happy. All the best with it.

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1 hour ago, TSF said:

An alien shows up in an area, so the locals talk and inform the officials of the alien's presence, so the officials visit the alien to check out the aliens documents

That might happen in Nakhon Nowhere but not Soi Nana.

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Clearly the Immigration Act needs updating failing that the PM or Ministers need to take charge as they once did.   There is no provision for retirees or spouses of Thai nationals in the Immigration Act. It seems that when those reasons for ‘living’ here were introduced the authorities treated those ‘visitors’ differently.  It was not thought necessary even to make 90 day reports. 

There is a saying that “If things don’t change they stay as they are.” In fact, this used to be accepted as section 37 (2) of the Immigration Act states. 

 

 

Edited by tgeezer
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