Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[Bredbury Blue]

More instances of VAR failing in the City vs Zagreb game. There was a clear handball by Zagreb missed by the officials and VAR, and there was a clear foul on Aguero (defender trod on Aguero's foot and sent him over) which VAR reviewed but didn't give. Both should have been penalties in the opinion of the BT Sport panellists and Peter Walton (who almost always defends refs/VAR but not this time). Not impressed with VAR so far.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Bredbury Blue

[Sparkles]

The introduction of VAR this season has been a shambles no more than last night.

Obvious penalties are for some reason not being given.Supporters,managers,players ,staff at grounds have no idea what is going on.

 

If FIFA ,FA want to see how effective VAR can be when there is actually a workable system they should be watching the Rugby World Cup ,as I am from Japan....brilliant and they don't allow players to be confronting refs waving their arms and mouthing off. There's a split screen for the millions watching on the box ,referee ,linesmen are miked up with the control room you can hear every word and reason given for decisions

 

I first watched the use of VAR in 1996 when it was used for the first time in Australian Rugby League it took them years to refine it as the were trail blazers in a football code.

Its still not perfect but as close as you possibly can get. They also don't have referees running to a pitch side monitor its all on big screens which with the money in our game should be compulsory.

 

How hard is it to get it right when other football codes have the template in place ?

 

 

 

[Bredbury Blue]

^Totally agree.

 

Yesterday i watched the Rugby Quarter finals and Palace vs City. What a contrast.

 

In the England vs Australia game we had the welsh ref  and TMO brilliantly conversing and working out the right decisions while all the time it was all visible and audible.

 

In the Palace game Zaha fouls KdB in the box it goes to VAR, you have no idea of what the VAR is doing, AND YOU JUST KNEW THE VAR WAS GOING TO AGREE WITH THE REFS WRONG DECISION. 

 

[champers]

On 10/3/2019 at 3:45 PM, Bredbury Blue said:

More instances of VAR failing in the City vs Zagreb game. There was a clear handball by Zagreb missed by the officials and VAR, and there was a clear foul on Aguero (defender trod on Aguero's foot and sent him over) which VAR reviewed but didn't give. Both should have been penalties in the opinion of the BT Sport panellists and Peter Walton (who almost always defends refs/VAR but not this time). Not impressed with VAR so far.

It's taking you a long time to get over that Champs League quarter final v Spurs. Move on.

Edited October 20, 2019 by champers

[Bredbury Blue]

8 minutes ago, champers said:

It's taking you a long time to get over that Champs League quarter final v Spurs. Move on.

I hope you are trying to be funny or sarcastic.

 

I am honestly very disappointed in VAR, and i was one of those all for it coming in. I saw it as the way of ensuring correct decisions were always given, but it doesn't!

 

[Bredbury Blue]

Just saw the incident in the Spurs vs Watford game when Vertoghen brought down Deulofeu in the penalty box, you could see Vertoghen lifts his foot/leg and trips him, it goes to VAR and they agree with the ref no penalty (unbelievable) - doesn't VAR ALWAYS agree with the ref! Thought I'd have a look at how Dermot Gallagher viewed it in his review of incidents - see below. VAR becomes more and more a joke!

 

INCIDENT: Jan Vertonghen makes a challenge on Gerard Deulofeu.

DERMOT'S VERDICT: Wrong decision, penalty.

DERMOT SAYS: "It's a penalty. The ball's the clue, at no point does Vertonghen get it. This is one I think they will reflect on when they meet up, asking why they didn't give it and work out how you're going to progress forward.

"If that happens next week, I think you're duty-bound to give a penalty."

[keithsimmonds]

Humour me Tv experts....why was Kdb not offside from the corner that led to his goal.....I know i am over 5847 miles away but he looked offside to me.

[Bredbury Blue]

22 minutes ago, keithsimmonds said:

Humour me Tv experts....why was Kdb not offside from the corner that led to his goal.....I know i am over 5847 miles away but he looked offside to me.

Just spent 5 minutes on Youtube looking for the goal from taking the corner onwards to see if you are right but failed to find. But i think we maybe got lucky with VAR for once: thought it might be argued Sterling's action maybe affected Heaton and maybe made him offside.

[wilai]

VAR didn't give offside as de Bruyne was credited by them with the goal. Had they decided Silva touched it then Sterling would have been offside and the goal disallowed.

 

The Goal Accreditation Panel have subsequently awarded the goal to Silva therefore it shouldn't have stood so the VAR decision was incorrect....for a change!

[wilai]

1 hour ago, keithsimmonds said:

Humour me Tv experts....why was Kdb not offside from the corner that led to his goal.....I know i am over 5847 miles away but he looked offside to me.

If you mean the first pass mate then he wasn't as you can't be offside directly from a corner kick.

[Bredbury Blue]

28 minutes ago, wilai said:

VAR didn't give offside as de Bruyne was credited by them with the goal. Had they decided Silva touched it then Sterling would have been offside and the goal disallowed.

 

The Goal Accreditation Panel have subsequently awarded the goal to Silva therefore it shouldn't have stood so the VAR decision was incorrect....for a change!

 

Here's the actual statement.

 

Explaining the VAR decision, the Premier League match centre said: “Manchester City’s second goal was given because there as no definitive angle or view for the VAR official to show that David Silva had touched the ball.

“When Kevin de Bruyne strikes it the check was made whether Raheem Sterling was offside and he was shown to be onside.”

The goal has since been awarded to David Silva by the Goal Accreditation Panel.

 

A Premier League tweet read: "After review, the Goal Accreditation Panel have awarded Man City’s second goal to David Silva.

 

"The Goal Accreditation Panel is an independent entity which has no affiliation with VAR."

Edited October 26, 2019 by Bredbury Blue

[keithsimmonds]

45 minutes ago, wilai said:

If you mean the first pass mate then he wasn't as you can't be offside directly from a corner kick.

Thanks mate.....i knew u would know.????

[mrbojangles]

2 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

But i think we maybe got lucky with VAR for once: 

Yep. I'll take a bit of luck for a change

[BangrakBob]

I don't understand how City got away with 2 handballs defending in the box, yet Mane the week before is called for a handball. I thought the rule now was, accidental or not it is handball regardless, as was with the Mane goal. What's the ruling...

[Bredbury Blue]

19 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

don't understand how City got away with 2 handballs

Bob you'll have to remind us of the two incidents and who was involved as i don't recall City getting away with any handballs defending in the box.

[Bredbury Blue]

21 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

thought the rule now was, accidental or not it is handball regardless

If there is a handball by the attacking team in the lead up to their goal accidental or not they disallow the goal. Laporte vs Spurs being the benchmark.

 

[mrbojangles]

1 hour ago, BangrakBob said:

I don't understand how City got away with 2 handballs defending in the box, yet Mane the week before is called for a handball. I thought the rule now was, accidental or not it is handball regardless, as was with the Mane goal. What's the ruling...

From what I can surmise from all the pundit discussion and there's been a lot. It seems that touch of the hand accidentally or not only applies to the attacking team if it leads to a goal. For the defending team, it only applies if his arms are in an unnatural position. I think. But it's barmy and not clear

[wilai]

1 hour ago, BangrakBob said:

I don't understand how City got away with 2 handballs defending in the box, yet Mane the week before is called for a handball. I thought the rule now was, accidental or not it is handball regardless, as was with the Mane goal. What's the ruling...

As the others have said bud, different rules for attackers (when a goal is scored) and defenders. Doesn't explain why Dele Ali's was given last week though????

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 8/19/2019 at 12:31 PM, wgdanson said:

What if a player scores an own goal after it touches his arm accidentally, would that be dis-allowed?

No, because the law says: "scores in the opponents’ goal"

[Bredbury Blue]

12 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

 

Here's the actual statement.

 

Explaining the VAR decision, the Premier League match centre said: “Manchester City’s second goal was given because there as no definitive angle or view for the VAR official to show that David Silva had touched the ball.

“When Kevin de Bruyne strikes it the check was made whether Raheem Sterling was offside and he was shown to be onside.”

The goal has since been awarded to David Silva by the Goal Accreditation Panel.

 

A Premier League tweet read: "After review, the Goal Accreditation Panel have awarded Man City’s second goal to David Silva.

 

"The Goal Accreditation Panel is an independent entity which has no affiliation with VAR."

Just saw Dermot Gallagher explain.

 

He considers that if it went in from KDB it's a goal as Sterling was onside at that time, but if it went in from Silva's touch then it's  not a goal as Sterling was offside at that time, but VAR got it right because you can't tell if Silva gets a touch (though Silva said he did), and Dermot after viewing it multiple times can't see the touch by Silva.

 

I have watched it a dozen times and don't see a Silva touch. You?

[wilai]

You lot call him the magician often enuff, so maybe he created an illusion......or he just does Harry Kane impressions!????

[Bredbury Blue]

2 hours ago, wilai said:

You lot call him the magician often enuff, so maybe he created an illusion......or he just does Harry Kane impressions!????

Actually City fans call Silva Merlin, not the magician; apologies for the pedantry.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 8/28/2019 at 3:32 PM, owl sees all said:

I'm saying that the goal should have been voided and retaken due to a Liverpool player not being the required distance from the spot when the ball was played. If VAR can't pick that up then some teams are going to hard done by. The Liverpool player's distance was a matter of fact, not opinion. VAR should have sorted it.

VAR is not allowed to get involved here. According to the published VAR Protocol, encroachment by an outfield player at a penalty is only reviewable if the player who encroached, becomes involved in scoring or preventing a goal, after the ball rebounds from the frame of the goal or is saved.

Edited October 27, 2019 by GroveHillWanderer

[GroveHillWanderer]

5 hours ago, BangrakBob said:

I don't understand how City got away with 2 handballs defending in the box, yet Mane the week before is called for a handball. I thought the rule now was, accidental or not it is handball regardless, as was with the Mane goal. What's the ruling...

The current law on handling offences says that handling still has to be deliberate to be an offence - unless the handling directly leads to a goal (in the opponent's goal) or a goal scoring opportunity.

[FarangryBirds]

As much as I don't really care for the egg-chasing, Watching the world cup I have been impressed with how their VAR works. Mainly because the conversation between the referees and the team in the VAR room is transparent, so we the fans better understand how the end decision was reached.

 

Football seems to scared to Mic up the refs and show replays on the screen of contentious incidents.

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 8/28/2019 at 9:33 AM, owl sees all said:

If the ref misses something on the field of play, should VAR (or the 4th official) send him a quick message to review the incident?

Yes, but only if the something that was missed falls within the definition of a "serious missed incident." This means that in addition to being missed, the incident must involve a match-changing situation: a goal, penalty, direct red card or a case of mistaken identity.

 

The VAR Protocol issued by the IFAB states:

 

Quote

The VAR will automatically ‘check’ every situation/decision to see ... if a serious incident/offence has been missed.

[...]
If a ‘check’ indicates that a [missed] incident should be reviewed, the referee should be informed immediately.    

 

[Bredbury Blue]

13 minutes ago, FarangryBirds said:

As much as I don't really care for the egg-chasing, Watching the world cup I have been impressed with how their VAR works. Mainly because the conversation between the referees and the team in the VAR room is transparent, so we the fans better understand how the end decision was reached.

 

Football seems to scared to Mic up the refs and show replays on the screen of contentious incidents.

 

 

Totally agree!

Was great for example, to hear :

- Taffy Owens explaining his decisions yesterday to Owen Farrell,

- Farrell calling Owens 'Sir' and politely asking "Can i ask a question Sir" to which he was told "later" and the ref continued on with the game,

- Owens giving the kiwis a good telling off for persistent fouling with a warning should it continue...

 

Wish we had all of that in football.

 

 

Ps. Brilliant game by England  yesterday, easily our best performance I've ever seen. Kiwis out-thought, out-fought and out-played.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Bredbury Blue

[owl sees all]

On 10/27/2019 at 2:39 PM, GroveHillWanderer said:

VAR is not allowed to get involved here. According to the published VAR Protocol, encroachment by an outfield player at a penalty is only reviewable if the player who encroached, becomes involved in scoring or preventing a goal, after the ball rebounds from the frame of the goal or is saved.

If that is how it is; then so be it.  All i can say, in this case, was that the ref' and the ass' ref' (linesman) did not do their jobs nearly well enough.

 

It's hard enough for clubs to get a result at the top club's ground without being cheated by incompetent officials..

[BangrakBob]

Liverpool almost lost their match against Villa due to VAR not being used consistently. For the Villa goal and the Firmino goal, and the Mane foul in the box. 

 

Villa given a goal through VAR when it was offside. 
Liverpool denied a goal through VAR by manipulating the measurement technique to make it offside.
Denied one penalty and player booked for diving when his foot was stood on, and in any other match would be given a penalty.
Handball blocking a shot on goal not given as a penalty by VAR. 

 

How can this ridiculous system be in use when it is so bad.
 

Edited November 3, 2019 by BangrakBob

[wilai]

The video on the LFC thread is very disturbing as it appears to show that the footage can be 'doctored' to suit the result desired by the VAR adjudicator. Whilst it is a useful tool, it relies on the competency/integrity of the officials.......Given the clowns we have, there are going to be many more instances like yesterday! Not that anything will be done about it????