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Apple CEO warns Trump about China tariffs, Samsung competition


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1 hour ago, Nowisee said:

Trump has listened to logic and made a pragmatic decision.   Why all the hate? 

The logic was always there.... everybody, save right wing fan boys, perhaps , has been talking about it since the first tariff was mentioned... there’s no change in this part of the equation, it’s simply been ignored because, apparently, the prevailing wisdom was that trade wars are easy to win.... lol... wisdom

 

Anyway.... what is this pragmatic decision that has been made?

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Yes, because China is GOOD.

Surely, you could do better than that?

China is  GOOD...at climbing the  economic ladder the US assisted  it to get on. The US is struggling to stay on top of that same  ladder. Their only  tactic is  to put the  boot into  anyone who  comes  close. Fragile position.

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53 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Actually the PLA is covered by the Chinese tobacco tax alone. Plus they downsized from 3m to 2m over the last few years. Apple products are assembled by a Taiwanese company called Foxconn. I think China is holding about $3tn in American bonds plus they're reasonably self sufficient in IT by now. and ahead in some fields.

 

You are spot on about tariffs though.

Actually china is currently holding slightly more than 1 trillion and slightly less than what Japan is holding. Not that it gives the Chinese any leverage.

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18 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Actually china is currently holding slightly more than 1 trillion and slightly less than what Japan is holding. Not that it gives the Chinese any leverage.

Ok, just over a trillion.

 

I don't understand the word leverage in this context I'm afraid. In my world it's an engineering term involving fulcrums, physics and trigonometry. Maybe the Japanese have more, but it sure sounds like a lot of money to me, and a pretty good earner in terms of guaranteed returns. Plus Donald needs the incoming Yuan to pay his increased tariffs hey?

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2 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Ok, just over a trillion.

 

I don't understand the word leverage in this context I'm afraid. In my world it's an engineering term involving fulcrums, physics and trigonometry. Maybe the Japanese have more, but it sure sounds like a lot of money to me, and a pretty good earner in terms of guaranteed returns. Plus Donald needs the incoming Yuan to pay his increased tariffs hey?

It's about 5% of the total US government debt. And the bonds pay less than 2 percent. And you seem as confused as Trump about who pays the tariffs. It's not the US government any more than it is the Chinese government. It's ultimately those in the US who buy Chinese goods and or services. So ultimately mostly American consumers.

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4 hours ago, Srikcir said:

On the flip side Apple's federal taxes will drop just as drastically.

A double hit on the American economy.

You mean the taxes not collected on the profits kept offshore?

Not to be confused with the additional revenues that the tariffs generate.

 

I am all for free trade and lower taxes all around. When it is applied intelligently. That has not been the case for many years. This trade war with China is complex and there are no real winners. But I think the war was inevitable, and better now rather than later. Unfortunately, I do not think that Trump can go the distance, and it will not produce the desired results.

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1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

It's about 5% of the total US government debt. And the bonds pay less than 2 percent. And you seem as confused as Trump about who pays the tariffs. It's not the US government any more than it is the Chinese government. It's ultimately those in the US who buy Chinese goods and or services. So ultimately mostly American consumers.

OK, I was being flippant and I do enjoy debating with you so I'll stop. I really do not understand the American use of leverage though.

 

In the broader context, a mere 5% of total debt represented by over $1tn is surely not a healthy economy when trying to put pressure on relatively debt free nations to come into line as perceived by Lightziger and Co. I'm not of the stable that bluntly says if China puts their American bonds on the market the dollar will crash, it would hurt the Chinese equally if not slightly more. However if China stops buying them, or slows, a reserve of that figure is still healthy and even 1.5% of $1tn+ needs regenerating on the American side.

 

My comment on the tariffs as I said was flippant, I have no illusions there but America does need to generate Yuan for it's Government purchases from China, which aren't inconsiderable as a percentage of the overall import figure as much as they would like to deny it. Pharma, I believe, was the biggest last time I looked.

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Don't tell me Trump has zero understanding about how the global supply chain works? Take an iphone for example. Apple may import a completed iphone from China at a cost of $240 and that would be recorded as US import of $240 worth of goods from China. But in reality, China's portion of manufacturing of that iphone is just $8.50, but unfortunately for China, Trump wrongly sees that the whole $240 value comes from China, when the parts may have come from many countries, such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore and even the US itself.

 

China may even prefer that low value-added assemblers move out from China to other countries such as Vietnam or India, so that China's export figures to the US goes down by a huge amount. Trump or the next president of the US may then pick fights with others once that happens because it wouldn't make sense to find fault with China anymore if the trade deficit figure with China becomes very small.

 

China has successfully moved up the value chain and doesn't need any low value-added, labour intensive manufacturing anymore. 

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perhaps the tariffs will make it viable for apple to manufacture in the US instead of China. If Apple used US manufacture increasing the US economy instead of China's  they wouldn't be worried about import tariffs on goods from China.

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48 minutes ago, Dionigi said:

perhaps the tariffs will make it viable for apple to manufacture in the US instead of China. If Apple used US manufacture increasing the US economy instead of China's  they wouldn't be worried about import tariffs on goods from China.

Nope, too many problems.   They tried:

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/28/18200330/why-apple-cant-made-in-america

 

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15 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Double crazy if they're taking seriously the posts of us thaivisa.com members.


Well, I think that, the posts put up on ThaiVisa ARE actually representative of the views of the general public. Surely, ThaiVisa does not attract a diss-proportionately high percentage of crazy people with crazy ideas ??

Yes, the views of the general public, politicians must take into account such views. They are, after all, democratically elected.

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3 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

So because they couldn't find the screws in Texas, well actually they did in the end, they claim the whole thing can't be produced in the US.

 

Must be the lamest excuse i have ever heard

It's about supply chains.   China has an infrastructure which is quickly and easily adapted to making what is needed.   The US does not.   

 

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51 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

So because they couldn't find the screws in Texas, well actually they did in the end, they claim the whole thing can't be produced in the US.

 

Must be the lamest excuse i have ever heard

But that was just an example that typifies the problem. It was far from being the only obstacle. China has a huge number of engineers and suppliers ready to tackle any problem that comes up. So design and sourcing is convenient and cheap.

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9 hours ago, Selatan said:

Don't tell me Trump has zero understanding about how the global supply chain works? Take an iphone for example. Apple may import a completed iphone from China at a cost of $240 and that would be recorded as US import of $240 worth of goods from China. But in reality, China's portion of manufacturing of that iphone is just $8.50, but unfortunately for China, Trump wrongly sees that the whole $240 value comes from China, when the parts may have come from many countries, such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore and even the US itself.

 

China may even prefer that low value-added assemblers move out from China to other countries such as Vietnam or India, so that China's export figures to the US goes down by a huge amount. Trump or the next president of the US may then pick fights with others once that happens because it wouldn't make sense to find fault with China anymore if the trade deficit figure with China becomes very small.

 

China has successfully moved up the value chain and doesn't need any low value-added, labour intensive manufacturing anymore. 

Mostly true but China still has a way to go before they don't "need any low value-added, labour intensive manufacturing anymore." There's still a big reservoir of low paid workers in the interior needing employment.

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2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Mostly true but China still has a way to go before they don't "need any low value-added, labour intensive manufacturing anymore." There's still a big reservoir of low paid workers in the interior needing employment.

China had embarked on an economic rebalancing drive since the Global Financial Crisis of 2007/2008. China knew that it has to rely less on debt-fueled investments and more on consumption and services-driven growth. China's exports to GDP ratio had fallen from around 40% back in 2006 to around 20% now. It is also determined to rebalance geographically by building a vast network of high speed rail.

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19 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

China is  GOOD...at climbing the  economic ladder the US assisted  it to get on. The US is struggling to stay on top of that same  ladder. Their only  tactic is  to put the  boot into  anyone who  comes  close. Fragile position.

 

Doesn't have anything to do with being GOOD, though. Successful, yes. Odd to see Trump critics embrace his values.

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20 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

China is  GOOD...at climbing the  economic ladder the US assisted  it to get on. The US is struggling to stay on top of that same  ladder. Their only  tactic is  to put the  boot into  anyone who  comes  close. Fragile position.

It's also good at imposing all kinds of non-tariff barriers on would be importers. And demanding access to technology in exchange for access to the market. 

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1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Nonsense. The USA, the EU, and lots of other major nations have far more open systems than does China.

Huh? Perhaps a  controlled  system  which  uses  the  same   factors  of  an open system  just  might  have an advantage?

I am not an advocate  of  China. I am not an advocate  for  any  "regime". I  say "regime"  because in reality   that is  how it  is. " Democracy" is  now a  concept as invalid  as  "communism". Autocracy  is now presenting itself as a  path to  fascism by the extreme wealthy.

To  my view  the  West  has become  top heavy in most ways but has  naively attempted  to maintain a position that is unsustainable . Especially due to  the  drains on  major  economies  from migrational immigrants  who are being propelled  by the  very same policies intended  to  provide that  sustainment. 

I am increasingly  becoming  resigned to the  fact that the  human  race  has  not  yet and probably  will eliminate itself   before  learning " domination" is  not any  solution  to global  harmony.

There is conflict  on the  horizon on a scale that has a  horrible potential. Current  events mimic the  very same  precursors  to  the  last  world wars.

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12 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Huh? Perhaps a  controlled  system  which  uses  the  same   factors  of  an open system  just  might  have an advantage?

I am not an advocate  of  China. I am not an advocate  for  any  "regime". I  say "regime"  because in reality   that is  how it  is. " Democracy" is  now a  concept as invalid  as  "communism". Autocracy  is now presenting itself as a  path to  fascism by the extreme wealthy.

To  my view  the  West  has become  top heavy in most ways but has  naively attempted  to maintain a position that is unsustainable . Especially due to  the  drains on  major  economies  from migrational immigrants  who are being propelled  by the  very same policies intended  to  provide that  sustainment. 

I am increasingly  becoming  resigned to the  fact that the  human  race  has  not  yet and probably  will eliminate itself   before  learning " domination" is  not any  solution  to global  harmony.

There is conflict  on the  horizon on a scale that has a  horrible potential. Current  events mimic the  very same  precursors  to  the  last  world wars.

 

Spin it every which way - the USA (and the West in general) are more open to business than China. Unless much mistaken, even factoring the recent tariffs and such introduced by Trump. That you deflect this by going on one of your usual muddled ideological-political rants doesn't change things or what you posted earlier. As for "not an advocate" - your posting history gives a rather clear idea of which countries and governments get criticized, and to which degree.

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6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Spin it every which way - the USA (and the West in general) are more open to business than China. Unless much mistaken, even factoring the recent tariffs and such introduced by Trump. That you deflect this by going on one of your usual muddled ideological-political rants doesn't change things or what you posted earlier. As for "not an advocate" - your posting history gives a rather clear idea of which countries and governments get criticized, and to which degree.

Not sure how making critical comment be twisted into advocacy but up to  you.

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44 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Not sure how making critical comment be twisted into advocacy but up to  you.

 

Consistently passing strong criticism on some, while mostly ignoring others amounts to the same thing. Spin away.

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On 8/19/2019 at 4:44 PM, Thaidream said:

In addition, stop the Chinese by not allowing them to buy US debt

Hmmm... who do you envision buying that debt? Or are you promoting a paradigm change in how the USA funds it's wars and tax give-aways? 

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